Wendler 5/3/1 Program

Training Powerlifting
981

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Hopefully, I can get a bit of feedback from all you 5/3/1 vets. I have always followed a more BB style program but after reading this thread I want to really up my strength. Now I have never written or followed a strength routine so help would be appreciated.

Sat:
Squat 5/3/1
Squat 5x10
Leg curls or GHR 4x12
calves

Mon:
Bench 5/3/1
Bench 5x10
Seated Row 4x12
DB Curls

Wed:
Deadlift 5/3/1
Deadlift 5x10
Lunges 4x12
Abs

Fri:
Military Press 5/3/1
Military Press 5x10
Pull Ups 4x12
Dips

Does it look Ok? should I lower the reps on the 3rd exercises maybe 4x8? I’m going for a more strength oriented program. I didn’t put set or reps for the last exercises because I figured I would go with how I felt at the end of each workout.[/quote]

This looks fine - 4x12 vs. 4x8? Just do the exercise and remember what I wrote about the asssitance work in the book. This is a good template for builing muscle if you approach the weights/loading correctly. And eat.

982

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:

If you are only getting one rep, then you probably need to evaluate why this is happening. Just a bad day? Or are you reaching your strength maximum?

I wouldn’t do the rest/pause thing. [/quote]

Bad few weeks I think, but could be a number of things: too much assistance work, sickness, lack of sleep, too high maximums, or maybe instead of 4 days a week, one day on/one day off might work better for me.

But honestly I think what stuffed it was doing the 5% jumps instead of 10% jumps between sets. Doing 80%, 85%, 90% instead of a lazy 70%, 80%, 90% is going to make a difference to that last set … and possibly stunt progress.

Deadlift though, only got 1 rep on the 3rd week of the 2nd cycle, and 4 reps on the 1st cycle. So not great. BUT deadlift improved nicely when testing my max after a break.

I will know more in a few months. This program is flexible and can be tailored any way you need. But people would be foolish to think you can take any of the many different variations and get equally good results. It is possible to screw this up and get nowhere. I’d hate to spend 16 weeks on it, test maxes and find for some reason or another they had gone nowhere. So … let’s see what happens if I move things around until I can get more reps on that last set. At least for bench and OH, deadlift doesn’t seem bothered with 1 rep on the 1+ rep day.

983

Hey Jim, I got a question regarding a good accessory exercise for hamstrings on the squat days. Where I lift, we only have a rack and a bench (garage). After the 5x10 squats (accessory), I’m just about fried, and SLDL, even at a light weight, are a bit too much for 5x10 for me. I’m also doing squats with 90 sec rest in between, to try and fit in some hypertrophy and increase my conditioning a tad. Is this a case of “can’t have everything?”

I can’t really think of a good hamstring exercise that doesn’t involved a pull or specific apparatus, and the 5x10 with 90 sec rest destroyed me yesterday. Hey, maybe I’ll get used to high reps next week and not be so gassed, but just curious.

Keeping a log of 5/3/1 here: http://curlrack.wordpress.com/. Just started, really looking forward to it.

Thanks Jim!

984

[quote]Anton Sugar wrote:
Hey Jim, I got a question regarding a good accessory exercise for hamstrings on the squat days. Where I lift, we only have a rack and a bench (garage). After the 5x10 squats (accessory), I’m just about fried, and SLDL, even at a light weight, are a bit too much for 5x10 for me. I’m also doing squats with 90 sec rest in between, to try and fit in some hypertrophy and increase my conditioning a tad. Is this a case of “can’t have everything?”

I can’t really think of a good hamstring exercise that doesn’t involved a pull or specific apparatus, and the 5x10 with 90 sec rest destroyed me yesterday. Hey, maybe I’ll get used to high reps next week and not be so gassed, but just curious.

Keeping a log of 5/3/1 here: http://curlrack.wordpress.com/. Just started, really looking forward to it.

Thanks Jim![/quote]

If you are doing 5x10 for squat and deadlift (and you are using full range of motion) then you are doing enough hamstring work. If you want to do something else for your hamstrings, cut out the 5x10 of the squat or deadlift and do the GHR or GM.

985

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Jim Wendler wrote:

If you are only getting one rep, then you probably need to evaluate why this is happening. Just a bad day? Or are you reaching your strength maximum?

I wouldn’t do the rest/pause thing.

Bad few weeks I think, but could be a number of things: too much assistance work, sickness, lack of sleep, too high maximums, or maybe instead of 4 days a week, one day on/one day off might work better for me.

But honestly I think what stuffed it was doing the 5% jumps instead of 10% jumps between sets. Doing 80%, 85%, 90% instead of a lazy 70%, 80%, 90% is going to make a difference to that last set … and possibly stunt progress.

Deadlift though, only got 1 rep on the 3rd week of the 2nd cycle, and 4 reps on the 1st cycle. So not great. BUT deadlift improved nicely when testing my max after a break.

I will know more in a few months. This program is flexible and can be tailored any way you need. But people would be foolish to think you can take any of the many different variations and get equally good results. It is possible to screw this up and get nowhere. I’d hate to spend 16 weeks on it, test maxes and find for some reason or another they had gone nowhere. So … let’s see what happens if I move things around until I can get more reps on that last set. At least for bench and OH, deadlift doesn’t seem bothered with 1 rep on the 1+ rep day.
[/quote]

I did the 5% jumps for a year and made very good progress. The 10% is preferable though.

You are already approaching the program with skepticism so I would highly consider you diving in head first and believeing or not doing it at all. If you add a bit every month to your training maxes there is NO WAY you can become weaker short of getting sick. NONE. Getting strong is simple but it takes a committment to work that few are willing to give. This is a simple program that is dedicated to hard work. The principles I laid out in the program have been shown to work.

This is not a perfect program but I highly recommend you start believing in yourself and in training. You ever see the movie “Ravenous”? I love that movie but in the beginning of the film, Jeffery Jones is introducing the people that are stationed at Fort Spencer. When he introduces Private Reich (“Our Soldier”), he is standing in a freezing river, with no shirt, screaming. This is training.

Go see the movie.

And if you haven’t completely thought about and obsessed and visualized every set this week of your main lifts, I highly suggest that you do.

986

Is anyone doing any track intervals or hill sprints for conditioning? I’m trying to find something that will fit into my schedule and location to add to my routine. I have a high school track nearby that I can run on and a few overpass bridges I could do hill sprints on.

I’m curious to how you guys are working them into the routine. You doing them on off days, after lifting, what?

987

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
Jim Wendler wrote:

This is not a perfect program but I highly recommend you start believing in yourself and in training. You ever see the movie “Ravenous”? I love that movie but in the beginning of the film, Jeffery Jones is introducing the people that are stationed at Fort Spencer. When he introduces Private Reich (“Our Soldier”), he is standing in a freezing river, with no shirt, screaming. This is training.

Go see the movie.

And if you haven’t completely thought about and obsessed and visualized every set this week of your main lifts, I highly suggest that you do.[/quote]

Ravenous is one bad ass movie

988

[quote]Kalle wrote:
Jim Wendler wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
Jim Wendler wrote:

This is not a perfect program but I highly recommend you start believing in yourself and in training. You ever see the movie “Ravenous”? I love that movie but in the beginning of the film, Jeffery Jones is introducing the people that are stationed at Fort Spencer. When he introduces Private Reich (“Our Soldier”), he is standing in a freezing river, with no shirt, screaming. This is training.

Go see the movie.

And if you haven’t completely thought about and obsessed and visualized every set this week of your main lifts, I highly suggest that you do.

Ravenous is one bad ass movie [/quote]

Great movie - “He’s licking me!”

989

[quote]bladelol wrote:
Is anyone doing any track intervals or hill sprints for conditioning? I’m trying to find something that will fit into my schedule and location to add to my routine. I have a high school track nearby that I can run on and a few overpass bridges I could do hill sprints on.

I’m curious to how you guys are working them into the routine. You doing them on off days, after lifting, what?[/quote]

Man don’t think too much…Just get them done 3x a week…each week add another “rep” on your sprints…Just like the rest of the program, small steps = big rewards…

But most of all don’t think of when or how…simply just get them done whenever you can

990

[quote]Alpha wrote:
bladelol wrote:
Is anyone doing any track intervals or hill sprints for conditioning? I’m trying to find something that will fit into my schedule and location to add to my routine. I have a high school track nearby that I can run on and a few overpass bridges I could do hill sprints on.

I’m curious to how you guys are working them into the routine. You doing them on off days, after lifting, what?

Man don’t think too much…Just get them done 3x a week…each week add another “rep” on your sprints…Just like the rest of the program, small steps = big rewards…

But most of all don’t think of when or how…simply just get them done whenever you can[/quote]

gotcha

991

[quote]bladelol wrote:
Is anyone doing any track intervals or hill sprints for conditioning? I’m trying to find something that will fit into my schedule and location to add to my routine. I have a high school track nearby that I can run on and a few overpass bridges I could do hill sprints on.

I’m curious to how you guys are working them into the routine. You doing them on off days, after lifting, what?[/quote]

Lift like a powerlifter.
Run like Payton.
Stretch like…a pornstar??? Not sure on that one.

Just get it done.

992

as for assistance, you say it’s not that important.
i am doing triumvirate assistance, and the dips/pullups owned me. will it still be enough stimulation if i don’t increase those reps or add weight as long as it is still kicking my ass?
same the GM’s too, should there be progressive loading on these exercises?

for squat assistance i am doing front squat 5x10 afterwards with pretty light weight and maybe pistols/bulgarian split/ leg press. <====look ok?

thanks,.

993

[quote]Man don’t think too much…Just get them done 3x a week…each week add another “rep” on your sprints…Just like the rest of the program, small steps = big rewards…

But most of all don’t think of when or how…simply just get them done whenever you can[/quote]

Best advice I have heard in a long time.

994

[quote]DF85 wrote:
Man don’t think too much…Just get them done 3x a week…each week add another “rep” on your sprints…Just like the rest of the program, small steps = big rewards…

But most of all don’t think of when or how…simply just get them done whenever you can

Best advice I have heard in a long time. [/quote]

gracias amigo!

995

I am starting to work in conditioning days on my off days starting tonight. Its the best option for me based purely on time management. if I notice over the next couple weeks that its killing my workouts, I will figure something else out.

I’m no expert, but I think doing some conditioning a few times a week is much more important than when/where you’re putting it in. As Jim’s log on elitefts has been a great example, running and such may lower your weights or stall you at first, but the body will adapt and you’ll get back on track…

996

To Jim;

I just completed my 10th cycle, since the 5th im trying to cut bodyfat from 15% to about 10%,almost there, also lost weight from 205 to 193 now,so i lost 12 pounds.

Deadlift from 295x4 to 295x8
Squat from 240x5 to 270x4 and with much better form then before…

My bench and Pushpress didnt improved, maintain strenght i say but no real progress, sometimes i get a good day but not much…

-Would you say the weight loss didnt help ?
-Bench and Push Press ,2 pressing movements, maybe im a better at pulling?
-Often people say the squat and deads are the 2 best overall lifts for the whole body, maybe im not using enough of my entire body on the 2 pushing movements, by this i mean it could be a technique issue?

If i go to elites this summer, would it be possible to get a training session to help me with those 2 lifts??

Thanks…those bad days on pressing sometimes get me crazy…and im reading and rereading Rippetoe book about technique!!

997

With regards to DL.

I find that taking just a 3 sec pause in between can really make a big difference in upping your reps.

998

[quote]crankMAN wrote:
To Jim;

I just completed my 10th cycle, since the 5th im trying to cut bodyfat from 15% to about 10%,almost there, also lost weight from 205 to 193 now,so i lost 12 pounds.

Deadlift from 295x4 to 295x8
Squat from 240x5 to 270x4 and with much better form then before…

My bench and Pushpress didnt improved, maintain strenght i say but no real progress, sometimes i get a good day but not much…

-Would you say the weight loss didnt help ?
-Bench and Push Press ,2 pressing movements, maybe im a better at pulling?
-Often people say the squat and deads are the 2 best overall lifts for the whole body, maybe im not using enough of my entire body on the 2 pushing movements, by this i mean it could be a technique issue?

If i go to elites this summer, would it be possible to get a training session to help me with those 2 lifts??

Thanks…those bad days on pressing sometimes get me crazy…and im reading and rereading Rippetoe book about technique!![/quote]

crankMan … your deadlift went from 295x4 to 295x8 over 10 cycles that is approx 40 weeks … was that on your 1+ day for deadlift? That is, you were meant to get 1 rep or more? If so, how come over 10 cycles you were still using 295 for the 1+ ??? did you reset the weights a few times? or were those from different days in the cycle?

Are you saying no improvement in pushpress/bench in 40 weeks???

999

[quote]crankMAN wrote:
To Jim;

I just completed my 10th cycle, since the 5th im trying to cut bodyfat from 15% to about 10%,almost there, also lost weight from 205 to 193 now,so i lost 12 pounds.

Deadlift from 295x4 to 295x8
Squat from 240x5 to 270x4 and with much better form then before…

My bench and Pushpress didnt improved, maintain strenght i say but no real progress, sometimes i get a good day but not much…

-Would you say the weight loss didnt help ?
-Bench and Push Press ,2 pressing movements, maybe im a better at pulling?
-Often people say the squat and deads are the 2 best overall lifts for the whole body, maybe im not using enough of my entire body on the 2 pushing movements, by this i mean it could be a technique issue?

If i go to elites this summer, would it be possible to get a training session to help me with those 2 lifts??

Thanks…those bad days on pressing sometimes get me crazy…and im reading and rereading Rippetoe book about technique!![/quote]

The funny thing with weight loss ( you’ve mentioned many times before) is that it will/can effect you differently. For example, my overhead press went UP, bench went down. Squat down and now my deadlift is rising again. So who the fuck knows. The problem with training FOR STRENGTH and losing weight is that you are serving two masters - this is what few people understand or want to understand. Mostly because they don’t lift weights.

So, even if your strength remained the same during this time period, I wouldn’t worry too much. BUT, here’s the thing…did you lose bodyfat or lost weight? Losing weight is fucking lame. Losing fat isn’t.

You are welcome here anytime.

Also, pressing (bench and military) are very hard to improve, let alone during weight loss. So you didn’t really give yourself a good chance. You might want to play around with some different assistance work OR recovering better. I just got back from a long weekend and hadn’t pressed or done any upper body stuff for 6 days. Yesterday I had an awesome pressing workout despite my shoulder killing me.

Remember to train with purpose - don’t just train to train.

“Often people say the squat and deads are the 2 best overall lifts for the whole body, maybe im not using enough of my entire body on the 2 pushing movements, by this i mean it could be a technique issue?”

Any compound movement is a full body movement. If your body isn’t tired from benching then you need to try harder.

1000

Thats my problem. I get jacked up on deads and squat days. They are my best lifts and they seem to go up quicker than my pressing does. I dont change anything from those days vs. my pressing days and I struggle.

I need to fucking work harder on my presses. I know my technique is shit and I’m working on it. Im 4 weeks out from a meet and I need to fix my bench. Time to sac up and learn to press right.