I refuse to do any percent calculations to set this up and I can already tell I started too heavy on my military press because I’m not getting all my reps in. (Pretty obvious sign)
This post has no purpose other than to showcase my ineptitude and remind me to use appropriate weights on the next wave.
Haha conorh … but if not doing any calculations how are you going to know what weights to use next cycle?
The book doesn’t really give a measure on when to back off apart from when things are “Stalling” … it says when you can’t get the prescribed reps.
But talking on this forum, some recommend that you should be getting 5+ reps on the 1+ day … now that is good advice. I’d say that suggests you are beginning to stall. And if that happens in the first cycle, then probably the calculations are off.
Or the calcs might be accurate but you are just not ready for those % lifts.
For me, on the 1+ day, that is, the 3rd week, I only managed 1 to 5 reps over both cycles. My 1RMs used to calculate were correct, but perhaps instead of 90% I should have started at 85% … or perhaps if I had used 10% jumps instead of 5% jumps I would have done better. But the big problem is, it did not say in the book that I should be getting 5+ reps on that set. And I don’t think it is entirely necessary and I do not think Jim thinks it is, but it looks like a good guideline.
And Jim, why oh why did you even mention that accursed 5% jumps? Don’t you know us idiots will pick the harder looking one thinking it is better? And why say “take 90% of your max?” You should have said 85% !!! ONLY!! don’t mention the 90%! The devil in the details … I am writing these rambling posts so any person new and naive like me that comes along reads between the lines and really listens to what Jim is saying: do the 10% jumps, start at 85% of max, and use SMALL INCREMENTS.
Hey guys, new here, but I’ve read the whole thread and a bunch of other info on 5/3/1 (literally, just about everything out there on it).
I think it’s true that you can basically read what’s on the web and do the program from that (it is “simple”) but you are missing some nuances from the book that Jim comments on. The biggest one for me is the 5% vs 10% and 3 day vs 4 day, and what each can do to your recovery. There is a lot of flexibility inherent in this program, but BUY the book!
I’m looking forward to starting the 4 day a week program next week. I’ve never done 4 days before…looks like a good time to start.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
Jim, gonna be a pain again…
What’s going on with my bench??
PR’s of 285 5x5, 300 x5 and 310 x4 all done during March.
2 Wave’s into 5/3/1 with best of 265 x8, 270 x7, and 290 x4. The weirdest part is, the weight feels heavy. Normally on my first couple of reps the bar just pops, but that hasn’t been happening.
Any idea on possible explainations? Maybe the multiple sets of 5 is taking it out of me, or the cumulative effect of high rep squats and deadlifts???[/quote]
A couple things here -
If the 310x4/300x5 were incredible rep PR’s for you (nothing even came close) then you might be trying to base something that was kind of a one-time deal. I don’t think this is the case because your PR’s in March seemed to be pretty consistent.
You may have to start a little lighter and build back up - look at what you did the month’s prior to March. You can’t be “on” all the time so you need to learn how to back off.
Yes, the squatting and deadlifting can take a toll on you. A very big toll. You have to learn how to pick/choose your battles with the program, especially if you are a intermediate or better lifter. For example, Sunday and Monday of this week I did very well (Military and Deadlift). My bench and squat sucked! But I still got the reps and will move on to next week.
The fatigue from accessory work might play a role, but hard to tell since everyone has their own tolerance to this stuff. One has to understand that there is much more going on with your body then what you do on a certain day. Life, sleep, work, relationships, etc. all have an effect on your body and your lifting.
Finally, maybe this program isn’t what you need for your bench - I don’t think this is the case but maybe mentally you need something else.
[quote]twistacannon15 wrote:
Jim,
I can’t remember if this was mentioned in your logs back in january when you began moving north of the vag, but I was wondering when you began training to maintain phase in january did you take 85 or 90% of your current maxes and were they rep maxes of your actual maxes, or did you just keep the % as they were. I am curious because I plan on pushing the conditioning more and was wondering what the smarter thing to do would be with the %'s, thanks.[/quote]
I’m training to maintain right now. All I’m doing is keeping the weights I used at the last cycle. If I have time/energy, then I try to break my previous best. Otherwise I just get the goal reps and hit the cardio hard.
Jim posted what to do on Q & A:
[quote]about training to maintain. When you list the reps and percentages you work up to in those 4 week blocks, are you talking one set only? For example, working up to 1 set of 3 @ 90% in the first week and moving on to the next movement? If yes, do you work up in smaller increments so you still get a fair amount of work in on your core lift?
This is how it works out:
Week 1:
80 x3
85x3
90x3
Week 2:
75x5
80x5
85x5
Week 3:
80x5
85x3
95x1
Week 4:
60x10
65x8
70x6
There is another “Kroc Like” variation to this.
Also, do you try to roughly base your big assistance lifts around the same principles (4 week waves) or do you simply hit those with higher volume week in and week out without waving the intensity?
All I care about is the core stuff. The assistance stuff is whatever the hell you want to do.
[/quote]
and another:
[quote]Jim, i’m a “fat beanpole”(if you get that term?) using your 3/5/1 to get good and strong. i’m trying to incorporate more cardio into my program to try and lean out/recompose my body since i’m skinny but still at somewhere around 18% bodyfat. i’m starting to get some puffy nipple fat(not gyno) and i mainly wanna get ride of that, while getting some endurance.
I live on a hill, is there anyways that i can use that to my advantage. whats a basic hill sprinting/GPP type workout that i can use on my off days to achieve my goals?
Shaky,
Sure…run up and down the damn thing! Not really that complicated. I don’t know what your conditioning level so it’s hard for me to tell you what to do.
Anyway, this is my RX for you.
Using the 5/3/1 “train to maintain” which I have talked about before. Don’t serve too many masters.
After the main lift, do only 2 assistance exercises.
Get your diet in order.
Condition twice/day.
Easy in the morning.
Hard conditioning on days you lift (at night, after the training).
Easy conditioning on days you don’t lift (at night)
[/quote]
good advice from The Man
[quote]twistacannon15 wrote:
Jim,
I can’t remember if this was mentioned in your logs back in january when you began moving north of the vag, but I was wondering when you began training to maintain phase in january did you take 85 or 90% of your current maxes and were they rep maxes of your actual maxes, or did you just keep the % as they were. I am curious because I plan on pushing the conditioning more and was wondering what the smarter thing to do would be with the %'s, thanks.[/quote]
First of all, welcome to the land North of Vag. Second, my maxes were really based on feel and what I thought I could do pretty easily with no psyche. My squat suffered the most with the running just because of the cumulative fatigue of my legs.
Play around a little bit with the numbers and if anything start too low. You’ve got time so don’t think you’ve got to get it right the first time. It’s like sex - you fumble around a lot but eventually you find the right place.
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
irishlifting wrote:
Just started my first week of the second wave in 5/3/1 both weight and reps have increased so it is working, was pretty shit in the first cycle(never hit high reps like some of the posters ie >10) due to my severe lack of work capacity but I’ve made gains in a month so like Big Jim says in the book, leave the ego at the door and it’ll be worth it in the long run.
I am still awful on some of the rep stuff, especially the squat. Once you get through this, it’s no big deal. But it does suck.[/quote]
I know your pain witht the Squat Jim, which brings me to another question, whats your opinion of resetting %'s if your not hitting at least 5 reps even on the 1 rep set of the third week, I’m not sure what to make of this cos to me if your target rep is 1 with 95% and you hit 2-4 surely thats still decent progress?
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Haha conorh … but if not doing any calculations how are you going to know what weights to use next cycle?
The book doesn’t really give a measure on when to back off apart from when things are “Stalling” … it says when you can’t get the prescribed reps.
But talking on this forum, some recommend that you should be getting 5+ reps on the 1+ day … now that is good advice. I’d say that suggests you are beginning to stall. And if that happens in the first cycle, then probably the calculations are off.
Or the calcs might be accurate but you are just not ready for those % lifts.
For me, on the 1+ day, that is, the 3rd week, I only managed 1 to 5 reps over both cycles. My 1RMs used to calculate were correct, but perhaps instead of 90% I should have started at 85% … or perhaps if I had used 10% jumps instead of 5% jumps I would have done better. But the big problem is, it did not say in the book that I should be getting 5+ reps on that set. And I don’t think it is entirely necessary and I do not think Jim thinks it is, but it looks like a good guideline.
And Jim, why oh why did you even mention that accursed 5% jumps? Don’t you know us idiots will pick the harder looking one thinking it is better? And why say “take 90% of your max?” You should have said 85% !!! ONLY!! don’t mention the 90%! The devil in the details … I am writing these rambling posts so any person new and naive like me that comes along reads between the lines and really listens to what Jim is saying: do the 10% jumps, start at 85% of max, and use SMALL INCREMENTS.
[/quote]
From reading around and my own common sense, I think the progressing over time is more important than where you started. I mean, if you add 10 pounds per wave for a year and add 120 pounds to your gym lifts, does it really matter if you started at 85% or 78.25? I don’t think so.
I’ve just been picking a weight that makes a hard but doable 5 and triple. I just don’t think I have enough training experience (and too much ego/enthusiasm) to pick a manageable weight on the military.
On the plus side, my squat, bench, pullup and dead are maintaining and I can walk up the stairs to my apartment without a Big Mac Attack, so I think I’m making progress.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
And Jim, why oh why did you even mention that accursed 5% jumps? Don’t you know us idiots will pick the harder looking one thinking it is better? And why say “take 90% of your max?” You should have said 85% !!! ONLY!! don’t mention the 90%! The devil in the details … I am writing these rambling posts so any person new and naive like me that comes along reads between the lines and really listens to what Jim is saying: do the 10% jumps, start at 85% of max, and use SMALL INCREMENTS. [/quote]
Well, in the book, he DOES recommend the 10% jumps for “just about everyone”.
I trained on this program for a long time (8 cycles). It may have been me, but my squat did not do much on this program. Current thoughts (at least for me) the volume on the squat was not enough. However, my bench, deadlift and incline press went up nicely. 3 out of 4 ain’t bad
[quote]irishlifting wrote:
Jim Wendler wrote:
irishlifting wrote:
Just started my first week of the second wave in 5/3/1 both weight and reps have increased so it is working, was pretty shit in the first cycle(never hit high reps like some of the posters ie >10) due to my severe lack of work capacity but I’ve made gains in a month so like Big Jim says in the book, leave the ego at the door and it’ll be worth it in the long run.
I am still awful on some of the rep stuff, especially the squat. Once you get through this, it’s no big deal. But it does suck.
I know your pain witht the Squat Jim, which brings me to another question, whats your opinion of resetting %'s if your not hitting at least 5 reps even on the 1 rep set of the third week, I’m not sure what to make of this cos to me if your target rep is 1 with 95% and you hit 2-4 surely thats still decent progress?
[/quote]
The “No less than 5 Reps” was something that Phil Wylie adopted - whether or not this is true for everyone, I really don’t know. But if you are still hitting 2-4 reps on the third week you are doing fine.
[quote]Anton Sugar wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
And Jim, why oh why did you even mention that accursed 5% jumps? Don’t you know us idiots will pick the harder looking one thinking it is better? And why say “take 90% of your max?” You should have said 85% !!! ONLY!! don’t mention the 90%! The devil in the details … I am writing these rambling posts so any person new and naive like me that comes along reads between the lines and really listens to what Jim is saying: do the 10% jumps, start at 85% of max, and use SMALL INCREMENTS.
Well, in the book, he DOES recommend the 10% jumps for “just about everyone”.[/quote]
Yeah, but the dumbest of people will go for the 5% like I did
Actually my plan was to start off on the 5% and if I began to stall, drop back to the 10% and hence keep progression going longer. A way to reduce the load without droppping the weight.
But what I should have done is 10% from the beginning, that would have kept progression going longer more steadily, I think. And got me more reps on the last set.
Alternatively, you could switch from 4 days a week to 3 days a week, and extend the progression that way.
[quote]THE BISHOP wrote:
I trained on this program for a long time (8 cycles). It may have been me, but my squat did not do much on this program. Current thoughts (at least for me) the volume on the squat was not enough. However, my bench, deadlift and incline press went up nicely. 3 out of 4 ain’t bad[/quote]
8 cycles is around 32 weeks which is quite a long time - interesting that it did not do much for your squat, but your deadlift went well - were they very different to start with? was squat far ahead of your other lifts?
It is possible that a specific persons’ legs might respond better to a very different rep scheme, where their back/chest/shoulders all respond well to THIS rep scheme. We all must be on the lookout for what works for us as individuals.
I am not going to stress over getting 5 or more reps, but I will keep it in mind.
On my second cycle, I’m constantly hitting more reps than in my first…I switched from 3 days a week to 4 and cut off a little on accessory work. Flexibility is the greatest virtue of this program; by trial and errors we can really fit it to our needs.
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
rcfromdb wrote:
Loved the ebook. That pic of your son at the end is adorable 
Midway through cycle 1 and surprised by how much boring but big is kicking my ass. Looking forward to putting up some big numbers by next year (23).
If you are close to London, Ohio, you are welcome to stop by and train.[/quote]
Jim (My sensei of strength),
I will be in the Columbus area for about a week (May 25-31). Would it possible for me to stop by the compound and train sometime during that week? After watching Dave’s video I really feel like I need to learn how to bench (and squat and deadlift and military press).
Thanks for being so helpful both on this thread and in the elitefts Q&A section and thanks for writing an awesome ebook.
Jon
I’m on my 1st week of the 2nd run. I’ve already seen rep PRs. I’m using this for a meet prep in June. After this run I’m going to add 10lbs to all of my lifts. The first run I pulled 315x15, this week I pulled 315x22.
Its a great program and book.
Hopefully, I can get a bit of feedback from all you 5/3/1 vets. I have always followed a more BB style program but after reading this thread I want to really up my strength. Now I have never written or followed a strength routine so help would be appreciated.
Sat:
Squat 5/3/1
Squat 5x10
Leg curls or GHR 4x12
calves
Mon:
Bench 5/3/1
Bench 5x10
Seated Row 4x12
DB Curls
Wed:
Deadlift 5/3/1
Deadlift 5x10
Lunges 4x12
Abs
Fri:
Military Press 5/3/1
Military Press 5x10
Pull Ups 4x12
Dips
Does it look Ok? should I lower the reps on the 3rd exercises maybe 4x8? I’m going for a more strength oriented program. I didn’t put set or reps for the last exercises because I figured I would go with how I felt at the end of each workout.
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
irishlifting wrote:
Jim Wendler wrote:
irishlifting wrote:
Just started my first week of the second wave in 5/3/1 both weight and reps have increased so it is working, was pretty shit in the first cycle(never hit high reps like some of the posters ie >10) due to my severe lack of work capacity but I’ve made gains in a month so like Big Jim says in the book, leave the ego at the door and it’ll be worth it in the long run.
I am still awful on some of the rep stuff, especially the squat. Once you get through this, it’s no big deal. But it does suck.
I know your pain witht the Squat Jim, which brings me to another question, whats your opinion of resetting %'s if your not hitting at least 5 reps even on the 1 rep set of the third week, I’m not sure what to make of this cos to me if your target rep is 1 with 95% and you hit 2-4 surely thats still decent progress?
The “No less than 5 Reps” was something that Phil Wylie adopted - whether or not this is true for everyone, I really don’t know. But if you are still hitting 2-4 reps on the third week you are doing fine.[/quote]
Cheers for the reply Jim. Got any more sweet ass success stories from the compound?
Here is my progress after 5 cycles in the Front Squat:
Cycle1: 215(85%)x5, 230(90%)x3, 240(95%)x3
Cycle2: 225(85%)x6, 240(90%)x5, 250(95%)x5
Cycle3: 235(85%)x7, 250(90%)x6, 260(95%)x5
Cycle4: 240(85%)x7, 255(90%)x5, 270(95%)x4
Cycle5: 250(85%)x7, 265(90%)x5, 280(95%)x3
I didnt reach the high reps most people here do even in the beggining, but the weight increases are consistent. Monday i start the 6th cycle adding 10lb to my max.
How far should i keep increasing before reseting my maxes? Some here say to stay above 5 reps, but i went bellow 5 even in the 1st cycle…
I really want to reach a 315 front squat( acording to the formula i can do 309 now), it would take 4 more cycles to use 315 in the 95% day.
Nevermind, i have missed the answer for my question few posts above…