Wendler 5/3/1 Program

Training Powerlifting
701

[quote]Hanley wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to reply Jim. I’ve a bit of experience, posting best lifts of 675/450/550 for 1675 as a 242 junior in single ply gear, but my deadlift is just embarrassing. Seriously. So anything that I can do to bump it up will make me happy.

I’ve found the Kroc Rows help too, and in a similar vein so has this - ShrugRackPullCombo - 230kg x12 - YouTube For high reps it KILLS my glutes and traps.

My best recent DL’n performances have actually come when I was doing Pendlay Rows. I should probably look at adding them back in in lieu of chins on one of my days (prolly bench).

One final (two part) question and then I’ll quit bugging you…

Are seated GM’s or regular ole standing ones a better option? And if so would the following be too much (keeping in mind the sets wouldn’t be done to absolute failure);

Deadlift 5/3/1
SLDL’s off a plate 5x10
GM’s 4x12
Chins 5-7x6-8

Thanks again for all the help Jim. I’m on a mission to crack 1800-1850 before I’m done as a junior next July and if I can drag my deadlift up I should have a really good shot at hitting the higher end of my goal!![/quote]

Seated GM’s vs. Regular GM’s

I like the regular ones as they seem to compliment squatting and deadlifting more (i.e. they kind of look like the two lifts) but I don’t know if one is better than the other - just different. If one is better for you, run with it.

If the Pendlay Rows (I assume this is some kind of bent over row) work for you, do it. When shit starts getting overbearing and complicated remember this - for the deadlift you need to address these things:

  1. Deadlift (i.e. do a deadlift)
  2. Low back (good mornings)
  3. Upper back/lockout (shrugs, rows)
  4. Grip (do #3 for higher reps without straps - kill two birds with one stone)
  5. Legs (squatting, which you should be doing anyway)
  6. Ab work (leg raises, sit ups, etc.)

So you should be doing all of this stuff to strengthen your deadlift: Deadlift, squat, row, good morning and some ab work. Pretty simple.

Every lift has the same kind of breakdown so don’t get too complicated. The point is this: attack these things with fervor and you will be rewarded. The key is to have a good plan of attack with your main lift (Sheiko, periodization, 5/3/1, etc.) and get to know your own body and how it reacts.

Side note - the extra shrug row thing or the bent over row might be too much for your lower back. You are doing Deads, Straight leg deads, GM’s AND squatting during a week. This is a lot of work and stress on the lower back (also factor in bench pressing with an arch). You know how shitty you feel after 4-5 nights of subpar sleep? The cumulative effects will run you down. Factor that in.

Also, be patient as this stuff takes time. Good luck with your goals in powerlifting and never let anyone tell you it can’t happen.

702

Easy enough to get it reversed … on the 5 day you are doing two sets of 5 before your last set, and on the 3 day you are only doing two sets of 3 … plus you have had a week to grow from the 5 week … etc… AND you are using the 5% increases so the extra volume of 5 reps compared to 3 reps is a lot more.

I think people are getting a bit worried about how many reps they are getting.

I think that on a 5 day, anything from 5 to 10 happens, and on a 3 day, anything from 3 to 8 seems to happen.

I’d say if you were getting 15 reps on your 3 day then maybe, ~maybe~ you could have used a heavier initial 1RM for your calculations.

I think if you are getting less than 3 on your 3 day, and less than 5 on your 5 day, then maybe you are stalling and need to re-calc everything next time.

There have been days when I was just getting the prescribed reps. But yesterday I got 7 reps on a 3 day for deadlift, so, things go up and down, and the general trend seems to be up.

703

Jim,

Any advized for the setup and how to perform good morning with a regular bar, i read what in the book but would like more details…
I dont want to go heavy but 3 to 5 sets of 10reps with 135 should be a good start.

Thanks for your time… i dont wanna be half rep Mcgee!!

704

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
I think if you are getting less than 3 on your 3 day, and less than 5 on your 5 day, then maybe you are stalling and need to re-calc everything next time.

There have been days when I was just getting the prescribed reps. But yesterday I got 7 reps on a 3 day for deadlift, so, things go up and down, and the general trend seems to be up.
[/quote]

yup, if you are just getting the goal reps for the day, as in you could not do one more rep - you might want to consider taking off 10% again and working your way back up.

It really is odd, maybe not, how some waves you tear it up and others are so difficult

Oh, and look at the bigger picture. It could have been an ‘off’ day or week from other stresses in your life and poor nutrition choices.

705

I think if you get the goal reps for the day continue, but if you fail to get the goal reps - especially if you can’t get them in set 2 or set 1, let alone set 3 (the “+” set) then back off immediately with a deload and recalc.

This is one more thing I like about this routine: today, for 3+ on bench, I got only 4 reps. If I had got 7 reps, that would be the equivalent of my personal best (if you calc out the 1 rep max from the 7 reps). Now, if I was doing max effort, I would have failed miserably to get that 1 rep and probably the workout might have been a write-off, overly taxing, maybe injured. But instead, I got my prescribed reps of 3 and one more, so I have got as close to my personal best as I am gonna get today, got a good value workout, no injury, enough volume etc… it is all good.

Note I am having a shitty day in general. Feel like truck hit me. Don’t know why, I was in Mexico the other day feeling fine! (just kidding). Prob. from sleeping on the floor.

This is what I was ranting about before “self adjusting routine” … on a shitty day, you can still get a good workout. On a great day, you don’t stop at a prescribed workload. You go as hard as your body can take without going ~too~ hard = optimal workload (well not perfect but better than trying to guess a month in advance).

706

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Don’t want to butt in but the opposite happened to me on my ‘5’ day i struggled to get 7 and no more but on my ‘3’ day I hit 8 with a bit left in the tank and thats with the 5% increase.

Easy enough to get it reversed … on the 5 day you are doing two sets of 5 before your last set, and on the 3 day you are only doing two sets of 3 … plus you have had a week to grow from the 5 week … etc… AND you are using the 5% increases so the extra volume of 5 reps compared to 3 reps is a lot more.

I think people are getting a bit worried about how many reps they are getting.

I think that on a 5 day, anything from 5 to 10 happens, and on a 3 day, anything from 3 to 8 seems to happen.

I’d say if you were getting 15 reps on your 3 day then
maybe, ~maybe~ you could have used a heavier initial 1RM for your calculations.

I think if you are getting less than 3 on your 3 day, and less than 5 on your 5 day, then maybe you are stalling and need to re-calc everything next time.

There have been days when I was just getting the prescribed reps. But yesterday I got 7 reps on a 3 day for deadlift, so, things go up and down, and the general trend seems to be up.
[/quote]

I totally agree with you it was my ‘1’ day today and i hit 5 on the last set which didnt beat my record from my ‘3’ week but i’m still happy to be getting 4 extra reps.

707

Jim, what do you think about Zerchers as a second movement on DL day? Would it be wise to add them in or should I just add in another DL variation or GM with a different type of bar?

708

[quote]crankMAN wrote:
Jim,

Any advized for the setup and how to perform good morning with a regular bar, i read what in the book but would like more details…
I dont want to go heavy but 3 to 5 sets of 10reps with 135 should be a good start.

Thanks for your time… i dont wanna be half rep Mcgee!!
[/quote]

Simple:

  • Put bar on back.
  • Arch upper and lower back.
  • Push ass way, way back.
  • Slight knee bend.
  • Go down as far as you are comfortable - there is no right or wrong with this. But if you find yourself cutting the depth to get weight - you suck and should take off weight.
  • Not everyone’s back is going to stay arched - but don’t camel hump the bar up.

And finally:

  • Why do you do good mornings?

Answer that question and you will know how to do them. I’m totally serious. It’s very similar to the bent over row and how I explain it in the 5/3/1 book. Think about it this way - if the purpose of the good morning is to develop the hamstrings and lower back wouldn’t you do them in such a way (range of motion and weight) to achieve this? Muscles vs. Movements

709

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
yup, if you are just getting the goal reps for the day, as in you could not do one more rep - you might want to consider taking off 10% again and working your way back up.

It really is odd, maybe not, how some waves you tear it up and others are so difficult

Oh, and look at the bigger picture. It could have been an ‘off’ day or week from other stresses in your life and poor nutrition choices.[/quote]

To make this as simple as possible - some days you kick ass. Other days you just coast. It’s about 70/30 with me in regards to the last set. If I feel good, I’ll do it. If not, fuck it.

I will live to fight another day AND I’m still working towards the goal. I’m not going to force anything that isn’t there. This isn’t anal.

710

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
I’m not going to force anything that isn’t there. This isn’t anal sex.[/quote]

I fixed that quote for you Jim.

711

[quote]UHCougar05 wrote:
Jim, what do you think about Zerchers as a second movement on DL day? Would it be wise to add them in or should I just add in another DL variation or GM with a different type of bar?[/quote]

Because I have access to a power rack (and am not in prison) I do not do or recommend Zerchers. I think they are a colossal waste of time.

But some people seem to like them and get something from them. If you find these to be helpful, by all means! If it makes your DL or squat go up, no one can argue with that.

712

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
UHCougar05 wrote:
Jim, what do you think about Zerchers as a second movement on DL day? Would it be wise to add them in or should I just add in another DL variation or GM with a different type of bar?

Because I have access to a power rack (and am not in prison) I do not do or recommend Zerchers. I think they are a colossal waste of time.

But some people seem to like them and get something from them. If you find these to be helpful, by all means! If it makes your DL or squat go up, no one can argue with that.[/quote]

That’s what I needed, DL variation it is. Thanks Jim.

713

TheDudeAbides:
Any results yet?

714

Is anyone here doing the program with 4 different lifts, but only 3 days a week? (meaning you end up doing different lifts different days of different weeks). This is the way I read it in the book and it seems everyone here is doing it 4 days a week.

715

[quote]VikingsAD28 wrote:
Is anyone here doing the program with 4 different lifts, but only 3 days a week? (meaning you end up doing different lifts different days of different weeks). This is the way I read it in the book and it seems everyone here is doing it 4 days a week.[/quote]

I’m doing all 4 lifts - though I’m not taking both weekend days off. I alternate day on/day off, giving me an 4 days of lifting one week and 3 days the next week.

I’m in a hurry, you see. I’m old and may die soon. Actually, it’s just that I feel recovered enough and get too antsy to wait the extra day. If I start feeling toasted, I slip in another day off. I’m in my second cycle, 3/4 through 5’s wave and have already set two rep PRs. It’s working pretty good.

716

[quote]VikingsAD28 wrote:
Is anyone here doing the program with 4 different lifts, but only 3 days a week? (meaning you end up doing different lifts different days of different weeks). This is the way I read it in the book and it seems everyone here is doing it 4 days a week.[/quote]

That’s the way I did my first wave, but I felt I can do more, so I passed to a 4 days a week…

717

[quote]DCR wrote:
TheDudeAbides:
Any results yet?
[/quote]

ah, yes

All info is tallied in Excel. Should I post just the max according to the ‘calculator’ or the reps and weight as well?

718

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
DCR wrote:
TheDudeAbides:
Any results yet?

ah, yes

All info is tallied in Excel. Should I post just the max according to the ‘calculator’ or the reps and weight as well?[/quote]

Both!

719

5/3/1 Summary, 5 cycles
(these are wave/week 3 numbers)

I added 5lbs to each lift, each cycle

military

  1. did not do
  2. 11x145 - 199 max
  3. 9x155 - 202
  4. 9x155 - 202
  5. 7x165 - 204

back squat

  1. 8x305 - 387 max
  2. 8x315 - 399
  3. 7x315 - 389
  4. 6x325 - 390
  5. 6x325 - 390

bench

  1. 8x225 - 285 max
  2. 8x230 - 292
  3. 7x235 - 290
  4. 3x245 - 270
  5. 3x245 - 270

deadlift

  1. 5x335 - 391 max
  2. 3x335 - 369
  3. 5x345 - 403
  4. 3x345 - 380
  5. 2x355 - (updated)

It is what it is. The numbers don’t lie.

720

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
5/3/1 Summary, 5 cycles
(these are wave/week 3 numbers)

I added 5lbs to each lift, each cycle

military

  1. did not do
  2. 11x145 - 199 max
  3. 9x155 - 202
  4. 9x155 - 202
  5. 7x165 - 204

back squat

  1. 8x305 - 387 max
  2. 8x315 - 399
  3. 7x315 - 389
  4. 6x325 - 390
  5. 6x325 - 390

bench

  1. 8x225 - 285 max
  2. 8x230 - 292
  3. 7x235 - 290
  4. 3x245 - 270
  5. 3x245 - 270

deadlift

  1. 5x335 - 391 max
  2. 3x335 - 369
  3. 5x345 - 403
  4. 3x345 - 380
  5. ?x350 - (later today)

It is what it is. The numbers don’t lie.[/quote]

Your maxes seem to have dropped?(Especially for BP)