Wendler 5/3/1 Program

Training Powerlifting
681

Jim, question for you-

I’m on my deload wave technically, but I had family in town and some special events, couldn’t get to the gym my last two scheduled workouts- military deload and deads deload. I do 3days/week on a tu/th/sat rotation. So I haven’t been since last tues. It occurred to me that maybe instead of doing my next two deload days of bench and squat, maybe I could just start the next cycle today instead.

To be clear, not only have I not been in the gym for a week, but I’ve not done anything really taxing at all.

Thanks

682

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
Jim, question for you-

I’m on my deload wave technically, but I had family in town and some special events, couldn’t get to the gym my last two scheduled workouts- military deload and deads deload. I do 3days/week on a tu/th/sat rotation. So I haven’t been since last tues. It occurred to me that maybe instead of doing my next two deload days of bench and squat, maybe I could just start the next cycle today instead.

To be clear, not only have I not been in the gym for a week, but I’ve not done anything really taxing at all.

Thanks[/quote]

I’m not Jim, but I’ve spent an entire deload week without doing any major lift and I didn’t see any problems. I don’t do this all the time, but I have done it more than once.

In my mind, what better way to deload than to not do the major lifts at all. Maybe this is defective thinking, but it’s worked for me so far.

683

[quote]malonetd wrote:

I’m not Jim, but I’ve spent an entire deload week without doing any major lift and I didn’t see any problems. I don’t do this all the time, but I have done it more than once.

In my mind, what better way to deload than to not do the major lifts at all. Maybe this is defective thinking, but it’s worked for me so far.[/quote]

I dont do the core lifts on the deload week too. First because i feel a lot better not doing squat, deads or other movements that tax the spine every few weeks. And second because its boring doing that easy sets at low percentages.

684

lol are you trying to jockey for the most recent post dez??

I’m with Malone and Sagat. Deload is deload. Give yourself a physical and mental break. Then when you get back you’ll be hungry to break rep PR’s.

685

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Jim Wendler wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Jim,

I need your help. I bought the book and it lays things out really well and easily to follow, but I have a problem!

My lower back just folds up once I start to deadlift 85+%. I was a bit fatigued today, but it’s been happening quite a bit recently. Is there anything especially useful that I could be doing?? Don’t have access to a 45 degree hyper before you say it :wink:

Some vids of me DL’n below;
232.5kg x5 - Deadlift 232.5kg x5 - YouTube
230kg x1 - Deadlift 230kg x1 - YouTube
250kg x1 - Deadlift - 250kg - YouTube
GM: 140kg x5 - Good Morning - 140kg - YouTube

Currently using the following setup for my 5/3/1 cycle;

Squat 5/3/1
Close stance high bar squat 5x10
Pull thrus 4x15
Side Bends 4x12

Deadlift 5/3/1
SLDL off a plate 5x10
Seated GM’s 3x12
Chins 5-6x5-7

Any help would be majorly appreciated. Thanks!!

Hanley - are you concerned that your back isn’t arched throughout the entire movement? Is that where you feel you are having problems? Or is that what you are feeling when you are pulling?

Thanks for the reply Jim,

Not holding my arch is an issue, the primary problem is that as I break from the floor I crumble in the middle and my back rounds out. I’m reasonably sure my core is in good enough shape (Hanging Leg Raise - YouTube) and I’ve squatted 675lb in single ply gear, which is why I think my core is strong enough, but once I get to 85%+ weights, as I pull from the floor my chest drops and my back rounds out.

Obviously my core can always get stronger, but as of now I believe it’s strong enough to pull 600+, but it’s just not happening because of my lower back (and possibly hamstring strength), in my opinion!!

Did you see any major issues in the lifts that I posted there? Did the GM’s look ok?? I know in the book you said you’ve gotten better results from dropping the bar weight and increasing the reps and ROM. Something for me to consider maybe?? And if so, what should I replace, or where should I add it in?

Thanks again big man,
James
[/quote]

Hanley - I don’t see any issue at all but I’m sure the Back Police (aka Weak Motherfuckers) will say differently. I don’t know your training history or your lifting history but am assuming you’ve been to a few meets in your day. Unless you are pulling sumo WITH A SUIT, your back will round.

Let me repeat this:

IF YOU DEADLIFT MAXIMALLY YOUR BACK WILL ROUND.

Now there is a big difference between a rounded back and back that continues to round and bend during the lift. For example, if you get in position and during the initial pull your back remains statically held, even if is rounded, you will be fine.

If your back bows like a dog taking a giant shit, then you are fucked. You often see young lifters do this during maximal attempts. This is not you.

I’m not saying this is good for your back, but either is squatting maximal loads. This is the reality of the situation - your back will round.

Now if you feel you are “somewhat” folding during the lift (I do this too when it gets to be a true rep max or a true 1RM) this is normal. The only answer is this:

Get stronger. The GM’s with a big range of motion help, back raises help too. (Not just the 45 degree back raise, either). Kroc Rows and Kroc Shrugs have helped greatly with my deadlift too.

In conclusion: you look fine. The stuff that should help you (Krow Rows, GM’s, ab work, etc.) is shit you should be doing anyway. That is a whole other rant there, too.

686

[quote]malonetd wrote:
dez6485 wrote:
Jim, question for you-

I’m on my deload wave technically, but I had family in town and some special events, couldn’t get to the gym my last two scheduled workouts- military deload and deads deload. I do 3days/week on a tu/th/sat rotation. So I haven’t been since last tues. It occurred to me that maybe instead of doing my next two deload days of bench and squat, maybe I could just start the next cycle today instead.

To be clear, not only have I not been in the gym for a week, but I’ve not done anything really taxing at all.

Thanks

I’m not Jim, but I’ve spent an entire deload week without doing any major lift and I didn’t see any problems. I don’t do this all the time, but I have done it more than once.

In my mind, what better way to deload than to not do the major lifts at all. Maybe this is defective thinking, but it’s worked for me so far.[/quote]

This man is wise.

687

[quote]Sagat wrote:
malonetd wrote:

I’m not Jim, but I’ve spent an entire deload week without doing any major lift and I didn’t see any problems. I don’t do this all the time, but I have done it more than once.

In my mind, what better way to deload than to not do the major lifts at all. Maybe this is defective thinking, but it’s worked for me so far.

I dont do the core lifts on the deload week too. First because i feel a lot better not doing squat, deads or other movements that tax the spine every few weeks. And second because its boring doing that easy sets at low percentages.

[/quote]

He too is wise.

688

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Hanley - I don’t see any issue at all but I’m sure the Back Police (aka Weak Motherfuckers) will say differently. I don’t know your training history or your lifting history but am assuming you’ve been to a few meets in your day. Unless you are pulling sumo WITH A SUIT, your back will round.

Let me repeat this:

IF YOU DEADLIFT MAXIMALLY YOUR BACK WILL ROUND.

Now there is a big difference between a rounded back and back that continues to round and bend during the lift. For example, if you get in position and during the initial pull your back remains statically held, even if is rounded, you will be fine.

If your back bows like a dog taking a giant shit, then you are fucked. You often see young lifters do this during maximal attempts. This is not you.

I’m not saying this is good for your back, but either is squatting maximal loads. This is the reality of the situation - your back will round.

Now if you feel you are “somewhat” folding during the lift (I do this too when it gets to be a true rep max or a true 1RM) this is normal. The only answer is this:

Get stronger. The GM’s with a big range of motion help, back raises help too. (Not just the 45 degree back raise, either). Kroc Rows and Kroc Shrugs have helped greatly with my deadlift too.

In conclusion: you look fine. The stuff that should help you (Krow Rows, GM’s, ab work, etc.) is shit you should be doing anyway. That is a whole other rant there, too.[/quote]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Jim. I’ve a bit of experience, posting best lifts of 675/450/550 for 1675 as a 242 junior in single ply gear, but my deadlift is just embarrassing. Seriously. So anything that I can do to bump it up will make me happy.

I’ve found the Kroc Rows help too, and in a similar vein so has this - ShrugRackPullCombo - 230kg x12 - YouTube For high reps it KILLS my glutes and traps.

My best recent DL’n performances have actually come when I was doing Pendlay Rows. I should probably look at adding them back in in lieu of chins on one of my days (prolly bench).

One final (two part) question and then I’ll quit bugging you…

Are seated GM’s or regular ole standing ones a better option? And if so would the following be too much (keeping in mind the sets wouldn’t be done to absolute failure);

Deadlift 5/3/1
SLDL’s off a plate 5x10
GM’s 4x12
Chins 5-7x6-8

Thanks again for all the help Jim. I’m on a mission to crack 1800-1850 before I’m done as a junior next July and if I can drag my deadlift up I should have a really good shot at hitting the higher end of my goal!!

689

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Jim. I used 300 pounds for my squat max for my first cycle, my 1 rep max is 335. I made 9 reps on my 3 rep day. Should I retest my max for the next cycle or should I just go to 335?

??? I’m very confused here. I would highly recommend re-reading the first half of the book.[/quote]

on my third set, of the second week I used 275. I got nine reps with it.

690

Jim,

I tried to submit this via my blackberry today from work. kept “timing out”…

tuesday of last week was my last workout before another deload wave. i do 3x/week on tu/th/sat. so then thurs and sat i was unable to get to the gym for my military and deads deload days, and it just wasnt working to push them forward or back.

i then thought maybe i could double up my next two deload days and do say military and deads and then bench and squats…but that would have been getting away from the idea of a deload…

so i was trying to submit a question and ask what you thought about simply starting the next cycle today after having a week completely out of the gym.

ill wrap this up. couldnt post the question, thought maybe your response might be something along the lines of give it a try…so i gave it a try, seemed to work.

just sharing.

doubt that doing this would work all the time, and i certainly prefer not to skip workouts, but its what i was stuck with this particular week. Moms turned 50, it was a big to-do.

691

For the deload week, here what i do guys and ithink the setup is good.

3 days/week deload

Push day:Bench,Military

Pull day:Deadlift

Leg day:Squat

Maybe i will used this setup for my next cycle also.

692

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
Jim,

I tried to submit this via my blackberry today from work. kept “timing out”…

tuesday of last week was my last workout before another deload wave. i do 3x/week on tu/th/sat. so then thurs and sat i was unable to get to the gym for my military and deads deload days, and it just wasnt working to push them forward or back.

i then thought maybe i could double up my next two deload days and do say military and deads and then bench and squats…but that would have been getting away from the idea of a deload…

so i was trying to submit a question and ask what you thought about simply starting the next cycle today after having a week completely out of the gym.

ill wrap this up. couldnt post the question, thought maybe your response might be something along the lines of give it a try…so i gave it a try, seemed to work.

just sharing.

doubt that doing this would work all the time, and i certainly prefer not to skip workouts, but its what i was stuck with this particular week. Moms turned 50, it was a big to-do. [/quote]

Didnt 2 people answer your question above and Jim say they had the right answer?

693

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Jim Wendler wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Jim. I used 300 pounds for my squat max for my first cycle, my 1 rep max is 335. I made 9 reps on my 3 rep day. Should I retest my max for the next cycle or should I just go to 335?

??? I’m very confused here. I would highly recommend re-reading the first half of the book.

on my third set, of the second week I used 275. I got nine reps with it.[/quote]

I seriously doubt that the confusion was about the weight you used or reps you got with it.
Perhaps you should acquire the book and actually read it?

694

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Jim Wendler wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Jim. I used 300 pounds for my squat max for my first cycle, my 1 rep max is 335. I made 9 reps on my 3 rep day. Should I retest my max for the next cycle or should I just go to 335?

??? I’m very confused here. I would highly recommend re-reading the first half of the book.

on my third set, of the second week I used 275. I got nine reps with it.[/quote]

This is exactly what was supposed to happen - you are on the right track.

695

[quote]Sagat wrote:
malonetd wrote:

I’m not Jim, but I’ve spent an entire deload week without doing any major lift and I didn’t see any problems. I don’t do this all the time, but I have done it more than once.

In my mind, what better way to deload than to not do the major lifts at all. Maybe this is defective thinking, but it’s worked for me so far.

I dont do the core lifts on the deload week too. First because i feel a lot better not doing squat, deads or other movements that tax the spine every few weeks. And second because its boring doing that easy sets at low percentages.

[/quote]

I just finished my first 5/3/1 cycle, lifting three days/week. For my last deload week I listened to my body and only did dumbbell complexes. It was a good choice, it gave my spine a rest from squats & DLs. Now I’m starting cycle 2 and I feel ready to go after those PRs!

BTW, I gained 3.5lbs on my first cycle of 5/3/1 and lost fat- I can see my abs better now than ever. Diet has remained unchanged. Maybe after a couple more cycles I’ll post my #s and some pics.

696

[quote]Hog Ear wrote:
Sagat wrote:
malonetd wrote:

I just finished my first 5/3/1 cycle, lifting three days/week. For my last deload week I listened to my body and only did dumbbell complexes. It was a good choice, it gave my spine a rest from squats & DLs. Now I’m starting cycle 2 and I feel ready to go after those PRs!

BTW, I gained 3.5lbs on my first cycle of 5/3/1 and lost fat- I can see my abs better now than ever. Diet has remained unchanged. Maybe after a couple more cycles I’ll post my #s and some pics. [/quote]

I am going to jump on the deload tomorrow. I too will cancel all core lifts and just do accessory movements. The cool thing is, since I’m doing boring but big, I just have one excercise to do. Good thing I’m lazy as well as fat
Old Lardass

697

Guys, hit 6 reps on my “3” day for the bench, first wave with 90% of 90%. Is that ok or should I be hitting more?? Hit 8 reps on my “5” day.

698

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Guys, hit 6 reps on my “3” day for the bench, first wave with 90% of 90%. Is that ok or should I be hitting more?? Hit 8 reps on my “5” day.[/quote]

that’s about right; I was getting 8-10 reps on the ‘5/3’ days, and 3-5 reps on the ‘1’ day for 4 cycles.

So next week you could have a goal for 3-5 reps.

699

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Guys, hit 6 reps on my “3” day for the bench, first wave with 90% of 90%. Is that ok or should I be hitting more?? Hit 8 reps on my “5” day.

that’s about right; I was getting 8-10 reps on the ‘5/3’ days, and 3-5 reps on the ‘1’ day for 4 cycles.

So next week you could have a goal for 3-5 reps.[/quote]

Cool. It should happen, thanks!!

About a month ago I did ~10lb more for 5,4,3 and ~22lb more for 4 but my bench has tapered off a bit since then so we’ll see.

700

[quote]Hanley wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Guys, hit 6 reps on my “3” day for the bench, first wave with 90% of 90%. Is that ok or should I be hitting more?? Hit 8 reps on my “5” day.

that’s about right; I was getting 8-10 reps on the ‘5/3’ days, and 3-5 reps on the ‘1’ day for 4 cycles.

So next week you could have a goal for 3-5 reps.

Cool. It should happen, thanks!!

About a month ago I did ~10lb more for 5,4,3 and ~22lb more for 4 but my bench has tapered off a bit since then so we’ll see.[/quote]

Don’t want to butt in but the opposite happened to me on my ‘5’ day i struggled to get 7 and no more but on my ‘3’ day I hit 8 with a bit left in the tank and thats with the 5% increase.