one more workout til deload…and i need it! did dips tonight for the first time in a while. for me, its love/hate with them. after the first set, i quickly remember why i always mean to make them a staple, but end up going back on it. in short, they arent easy! unless youre doing bullshit reps…
time to man-up and make them a cornerstone of my accessory work. a few months ago i recall doing a good set of 135x6. tonight 4 sets with 45 made me look silly…
What is the best way to structure a 5/3/1 workout if you are able to the gym twice a day? I’m not talking about doing like bench press in the morning and squats at night. Both times would be for the same workout. I would assume you do the big lift in the first workout and split the assistance someway.
In today’s article from Dave Tate and in another post I saw recently from Christian Thibaudeau it indicates there can be benefits to splitting your workout like this. I had been doing this recently but not for 5/3/1 and just wanted to know if anyone else has done this. Or is this just one of those cases where if splitting the workout was better, 5/3/1 would have you working out twice a day already.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
What is the best way to structure a 5/3/1 workout if you are able to the gym twice a day? I’m not talking about doing like bench press in the morning and squats at night. Both times would be for the same workout. I would assume you do the big lift in the first workout and split the assistance someway. In today’s article from Dave Tate and in another post I saw recently from Christian Thibaudeau it indicates there can be benefits to splitting your workout like this. I had been doing this recently but not for 5/3/1 and just wanted to know if anyone else has done this. Or is this just one of those cases where if splitting the workout was better, 5/3/1 would have you working out twice a day already.[/quote]
5/3/1 workouts generally take 40 minutes to and hour, splitting them in to two workouts seem illogical unless you really cannot clear an hour straight in your day.
I wish I had enough free time to easily get to the gym twice/day…so that I could choose NOT to go twice!
If you really want to go twice a day, it seems simple enough to get your main lift done, and get out. Come back 4-6 hrs later and do the accessory stuff.
Are you doing conditioning work? You could do your weights in one session, conditioning in second session if you’re not already doing stuff for that.
otherwise, I’d think it works well enough as once/day. Take that extra time and spend it bettering your life in some other way- spend time with people, read a book, learn a language, learn a new skill, etc.
[quote]dez6485 wrote:
You could do your weights in one session, conditioning in second session if you’re not already doing stuff for that.
[/quote]
I don’t really see the need for twice-a-days, but if you’re going to do it anyway, I think this is probably the best option.
All right…let’s all try to get along here.
In response to the speed work as assistance work, if you are going to do a dynamic block of training, the best thing is to structure your program so that these movements are done prior to the main work.
Remember:
I recommend a block consisting of different jumps and throws (med balls); exercises are going to be dependent on your training level and what your goals are. of course with this in mind, the training has to be adjusted to make up for the new stresses that were added into the program.
Training/Programming isn’t that hard once you have a basic model to work from, a goal and the ability to make the necessary adjustments to the said model without sacrificing your philosophy. Within the 5/3/1 model (and more specifically the very simplified “North of Vag” all things can be done - strength, mass, speed, conditioning, cutting, etc. You just have to set aside the time frame and not try to do two things at once. Focus on one thing and let the other properties be maintaned or progress slowly (or slower than usual).
The key is finding that model and finding your training philosophy. This is not easy to grasp and I don’t expect it to be; it has taken me awhile to figure this out. But once you do, the pieces tend to fall into place.
That is all.
ordered some Surge Workout Fuel, going to follow something pretty close to CT’s para-workout protocol. I’ve been getting dangerously close to taking a JW approach and not buying anymore protein and such, letting go of the dogma and seeing what happens. At the same time, ive been reading up on CT’s ideas with the protocol, and seeing peoples’ experiences, and it’s got me more than curious. With law enforcement being my goal, i have to keep things legal, but some of the experiences sound almost steroid-like. i have to see for myself if it’s bullshit or not. so im going to give it a month on the protocol, and if i dont notice an obvious difference, im going to make a solid run at kicking my protein habit, switch to McD’s, cause Dave Tate said it was ok…(last part is a joke. or is it)
[quote]malonetd wrote:
dez6485 wrote:
You could do your weights in one session, conditioning in second session if you’re not already doing stuff for that.
I don’t really see the need for twice-a-days, but if you’re going to do it anyway, I think this is probably the best option.[/quote]
Another option could be to spend some of the 2nd workout doing restorative work. Stretching, foam rolling etc.
so basically i keep upping the weight per cycle until i get 5reps, 3reps, 1rep in those respective weeks?
heh has anyone gotten that far yet?
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
All right…let’s all try to get along here.
In response to the speed work as assistance work, if you are going to do a dynamic block of training, the best thing is to structure your program so that these movements are done prior to the main work.
Remember:
I recommend a block consisting of different jumps and throws (med balls); exercises are going to be dependent on your training level and what your goals are. of course with this in mind, the training has to be adjusted to make up for the new stresses that were added into the program.
Training/Programming isn’t that hard once you have a basic model to work from, a goal and the ability to make the necessary adjustments to the said model without sacrificing your philosophy. Within the 5/3/1 model (and more specifically the very simplified “North of Vag” all things can be done - strength, mass, speed, conditioning, cutting, etc. You just have to set aside the time frame and not try to do two things at once. Focus on one thing and let the other properties be maintaned or progress slowly (or slower than usual).
The key is finding that model and finding your training philosophy. This is not easy to grasp and I don’t expect it to be; it has taken me awhile to figure this out. But once you do, the pieces tend to fall into place.
That is all.[/quote]
so it would be dynamic work, 531 set, then some form of conditioning like cardio or whatever?
[quote]kickureface wrote:
so basically i keep upping the weight per cycle until i get 5reps, 3reps, 1rep in those respective weeks?
heh has anyone gotten that far yet?[/quote]
ive been doing this for 8 months, and i havent let my reps fall that low on those days yet, and i am very pleased with my progress. there are days where i know going in that im only going to try for those reps, but i know that if i get to where im consistently getting very low reps, i should have reset that lift already.
i think it’s good to keep a little “buffer” in there between the reps youre supposed to get and what you can actually get. if you get to the point where you can actually only get the weight once, then youve ground your progress basically to a halt. i think the idea of this comes from needing to do singles, doubles, etc for max strength, which is proving to just not be true. take a weight that’s “95%” and hit it 5-6 times, and your 1RM will go up, for real!
plus, keeping the reps a little higher will save your joints in the long run. if youre constantly lifting so close to your limits that youre only getting those 5, 3, and 1 reps, youre going to get beat up sooner or later.
my pennies.
[quote]dez6485 wrote:
kickureface wrote:
so basically i keep upping the weight per cycle until i get 5reps, 3reps, 1rep in those respective weeks?
heh has anyone gotten that far yet?
ive been doing this for 8 months, and i havent let my reps fall that low on those days yet, and i am very pleased with my progress. there are days where i know going in that im only going to try for those reps, but i know that if i get to where im consistently getting very low reps, i should have reset that lift already.
i think it’s good to keep a little “buffer” in there between the reps youre supposed to get and what you can actually get. if you get to the point where you can actually only get the weight once, then youve ground your progress basically to a halt. i think the idea of this comes from needing to do singles, doubles, etc for max strength, which is proving to just not be true. take a weight that’s “95%” and hit it 5-6 times, and your 1RM will go up, for real!
plus, keeping the reps a little higher will save your joints in the long run. if youre constantly lifting so close to your limits that youre only getting those 5, 3, and 1 reps, youre going to get beat up sooner or later.
my pennies.[/quote]
I agree with this. Basically, if you go into the gym feeling great and end up only hitting the prescribed reps, you should probably reset that lift. You can try to push it for another cycle, but I think that’s foolish.
It’s like trying to force your half-mast dick into your girl for the third time that night instead of just waiting til morning. Sure you might get the job done, but it’s probably going to suck, and it would have been a lot better if you had just been more patient.
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
dez6485 wrote:
kickureface wrote:
I agree with this. Basically, if you go into the gym feeling great and end up only hitting the prescribed reps, you should probably reset that lift. You can try to push it for another cycle, but I think that’s foolish.
It’s like trying to force your half-mast dick into your girl for the third time that night instead of just waiting til morning. Sure you might get the job done, but it’s probably going to suck, and it would have been a lot better if you had just been more patient.[/quote]
Ha!! I’m stealing that analogy to use at a later time, thank you.
Wasn’t really sure where to put this but since I am doing this program I’ll ask here…
When doing high rep deadlifts or squats does anybody notice a weird odor come from their body when they get up to 10 reps? I only ask this because recently on my squat and deadlift days when I get up to around 8 or 9 reps I get a whiff of this odor that I think is coming from my sweat. This has happened to me for the last couple months so I was just curious if anybody else had any experiences with this. Thanks.
[quote]twistacannon15 wrote:
Wasn’t really sure where to put this but since I am doing this program I’ll ask here…
When doing high rep deadlifts or squats does anybody notice a weird odor come from their body when they get up to 10 reps? I only ask this because recently on my squat and deadlift days when I get up to around 8 or 9 reps I get a whiff of this odor that I think is coming from my sweat. This has happened to me for the last couple months so I was just curious if anybody else had any experiences with this. Thanks.[/quote]
That’s the best part of the 5/3/1 program. Once you hit 10 reps on the main lifts, you automatically shit your pants.
Name me one other program out there that can offer that.
haha. wow. thats one of the weirdest comments/questions ive ever seen on this site. fucking awesome.
are you serious?
what weight are you using when you get a whiff of this odor? there must be a correlation.
dez6485 wrote:
haha. wow. thats one of the weirdest comments/questions ive ever seen on this site. fucking awesome.
are you serious?
what weight are you using when you get a whiff of this odor? there must be a correlation.
yea man i am dead serious lol. It happens when I’m going for a rep PR in either the squat or deadlift when at about 90-95% of my training max. I started to notice it a few months back with squats but I went for a rep PR in deadlift today and on the second to last rep I got a whiff of it. It truly is the strangest thing.
[quote]dez6485 wrote:
haha. wow. thats one of the weirdest comments/questions ive ever seen on this site. fucking awesome.
are you serious?
what weight are you using when you get a whiff of this odor? there must be a correlation. [/quote]
yea man i am dead serious lol. It happens when I’m going for a rep PR in either the squat or deadlift when at about 90-95% of my training max. I started to notice it a few months back with squats but I went for a rep PR in deadlift today and on the second to last rep I got a whiff of it. It truly is the strangest thing.
no man, youre going to have to give the specific weight, not some %. if you give the actual weight, we might be able to figure out exactly whats going on here…
maybe its a 275 stench, a 315 stank, a 365 reek, 405 odor, etc. we need specifics to know what we’re dealing with here, because all of these are very different things.
Just found a review of Jim seminar last weekend in chicago,
this review was made by miked on stronglifts.com …so credit to him!
I tought some 5/3/1 junkie and peoples that like Jim work would like to read!!
Made it to the Wendler Seminar in Chicago, and he went over a few things that may be of interest:
For people who want to be strong, with an emphasis on getting bigger -
My notes basically say “5/3/1 + 5x10 + 30 min walking/3 days + increase caloric liquids”
5/3/1 routine for the strength, the 5x10 of whatever big lift you’re doing that day, 30 mins of walking to keep some of the fat off and ensure you’re not completely de-conditioned, and liquid calories are just easier to ingest.
Conditioning:
Hard condition occurs on lower body day (sprints, hills, prowler…)
Light condition on Upper days as not to effect the lower body days
Basic limiting of cals/carbs, nothing crazy here
Sample for someone wanting to get into fantastic athletic shape, while trying to build/maintain strength:
30-40 mins easy conditioning in the morning
5/3/1 lifting at some point during the day, 3-4 days a week
Followed by hard conditioning, 4 days a week
Very strenuous
He went over the importance of having easy conditioning, or (gasp!) steady state cardio, giving the example of an elite college football athlete who had an unusually high resting heart rate. They had him on a treadmill walking for extended periods of time and his heart rate plummeted.
1)Easy conditioning helps people adapt
2)Positively impacts strength by not overtaxing your recovery
3)Work capacity increases because of it
People who want to be conditioned while gaining strength:
Get to a satisfactory level of conditioning (maybe 2 hard conditioning workouts a week), and simply maintain that amount, while building strength around it.
Amount of hills/trips on prowler should not increase but be maintained at a level that keeps you conditioned while allowing you to make strength gains. Some experimentation is necessary of course.
Box Squat vs. Free Squat
-Believes Box Squat is great to teach squat, and is good for people with bad knees
-The carryover or usefulness, however, only really applies to multi-ply lifters
-He concluded by saying that if you’re not a multi-ply lifter and can safely free squat, then pick the free squat 100% of the time
Later, I asked him why so much emphasis on box squatting is prevalent in sports training.
He said because it’s easy to teach, and they need some type of squatting movement. Instead of working out free squat kinks, they might as well save time, and get strong on box squats. Also, they can recover fast usually.
Quick technique points:
Recommends trying the false grip for OH press (not bench). He says that helped him immensely with shoulder/bar tracking problems
Clean: Demonstrated the “ugliest clean ever”, which involves simply getting the bar from the floor to the shoulders any way possible. Not triple extension or hip whip. Just grab it, jump, pull it onto the shoulders.
Made the point that technique is only really significantly important for people training to lift a lot of goddamned weight or an oly-lifter
Squat: Basically what Mehdi/Rippetoe recommends. Except he says that one should drive the elbows under the bar and push up into it. Basically gets the same job as elbows up: it keeps the chest up, but then again, it works for him, so…