[quote]dez6485 wrote:
are we done? or is there something else that someone would like to pick apart?[/quote]
I for one would like to point out that your avatar is missing an eye. You are obviously not an expert. 
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
gsherman14 wrote:
dez6485 wrote:
*decent numbers= there’s various guidelines people like to quote, but i would say if youre not at AT LEAST squat 2x bodyweight, bench 1.5x bodyweight, deadlift 2.5x bodyweight, dont bother looking for weaknesses yet! (in fact, id really say 2.5x, 2x, and 3x, respectively)
I love the arrogance of powerlifters sometimes.
Yeah that post made me LOL too…let’s see, I’m 257, for 2.5-2-3 that means I should be able to squat 645, bench 515, and deadlift 770…holy shit! I would be an elite powerlifter with a raw total of 1930 before I could even work on weak points!!! LMAO! 98% of stats are made up on the spot
[/quote]
Not to mention on the way to your 1930lb total you would most likely need to put on some weight making the total even higher. I’ve seen a few web sites even articles on this site that consider you a good level if you can squat x2 your body weight, etc.
However, most of them will say x2 is good up to a certain body weight like 200lbs, after that the numbers become different (lower) since larger body weight does not always mean potential max strength.
Here’s my plan for a 3 day a week 5/3/1 routine
Monday - Power Clean 5/3/1, Zercher Squat 5/3/1, Hack Squat 510, Bent Row 510
Wednesday - Clean & Press 5/3/1, Clean & Press 510, Ring Pullup 105, Ring Dip 10*5
Friday - Hang Snatch 5/3/1, Deadlift 5/3/1, Good Morning 510, Barbell Kurl 510
This is taking into account that I have nothing but a barbell and a set of rings to train with. I think I’m hitting everything pretty well here except abs, which have never been a problem for me. Obviously I can add them in if that changes. This is geared towards strongman training as that’s my eventual goal. Anyone see any glaring faults other than the lack of any bench work?
EDIT: When I say clean & press, I only mean cleaning the 1st rep, I don’t intend to clean every rep.
[quote]dez6485 wrote:
second of all, do any of you know what “guidelines” are? not everyone is 257lbs. so you can take those ratios with a grain of salt. there are 157lb trainees, and 257lb trainees, those ratios work “ok” for both of them!
and if you are a 257lb tub of goo, then youd be doing yourself a disservice to include all your goo when using those ratios! not saying you are, just saying IF (IF!) you are. god damn, i guess everything needs to be spelled out for some of you people, or you need basic reading comprehension skills.
i said “approaching decent numbers” then gave an idea, using very widely used ratios, of what decent numbers were. then i put (my ideals) after that.
in-other-fucking-words: if a person were 200lbs, and they were at a 300lbs bench press (not too hard to get there) and they just couldnt get that number up, then they might start looking at what is weak. now if that same 200lb trainee were at a 275lb bench, they probably DONT need to start obsessing about what is weak, they just need more time under the fucking bar.
[/quote]
Not to pick a fight with ya or anything mate, because you do seem to know a good deal about what you are talking about, but I’m saying that your 2.5-2-3 philosophy may need some reevaluating.
The fact that I’m 257 is really irrelevant–the guidelines are no better for a 200 lb athlete, because regardless of BW, your 2.5-2-3 philosophy works out to a 7.5x BW “total”. That is considered elite for any weight class that you are in.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
I’ve seen a few web sites even articles on this site that consider you a good level if you can squat x2 your body weight, etc. However, most of them will say x2 is good up to a certain body weight like 200lbs, after that the numbers become different (lower) since larger body weight does not always mean potential max strength. [/quote]
Yeah, this is the one that I have been using as a beginner:
But I’m pretty near those totals in my PL lifts right now, so I may need to reevaluate going forward. But it’s definitely a good start.
[quote]The other Rob wrote:
Here’s my plan for a 3 day a week 5/3/1 routine
Monday - Power Clean 5/3/1, Zercher Squat 5/3/1, Hack Squat 510, Bent Row 510
Wednesday - Clean & Press 5/3/1, Clean & Press 510, Ring Pullup 105, Ring Dip 10*5
Friday - Hang Snatch 5/3/1, Deadlift 5/3/1, Good Morning 510, Barbell Kurl 510
This is taking into account that I have nothing but a barbell and a set of rings to train with. I think I’m hitting everything pretty well here except abs, which have never been a problem for me. Obviously I can add them in if that changes. This is geared towards strongman training as that’s my eventual goal. Anyone see any glaring faults other than the lack of any bench work?
EDIT: When I say clean & press, I only mean cleaning the 1st rep, I don’t intend to clean every rep.[/quote]
Why are you using zercher squats? I’d go with Front Squats.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
The other Rob wrote:
Here’s my plan for a 3 day a week 5/3/1 routine
Monday - Power Clean 5/3/1, Zercher Squat 5/3/1, Hack Squat 510, Bent Row 510
Wednesday - Clean & Press 5/3/1, Clean & Press 510, Ring Pullup 105, Ring Dip 10*5
Friday - Hang Snatch 5/3/1, Deadlift 5/3/1, Good Morning 510, Barbell Kurl 510
This is taking into account that I have nothing but a barbell and a set of rings to train with. I think I’m hitting everything pretty well here except abs, which have never been a problem for me. Obviously I can add them in if that changes. This is geared towards strongman training as that’s my eventual goal. Anyone see any glaring faults other than the lack of any bench work?
EDIT: When I say clean & press, I only mean cleaning the 1st rep, I don’t intend to clean every rep.
Why are you using zercher squats? I’d go with Front Squats.[/quote]
“Nothing but a barbell and a set of rings” is my guess. And there is nothing wrong with Zerchers.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
PB Andy wrote:
The other Rob wrote:
Here’s my plan for a 3 day a week 5/3/1 routine
Monday - Power Clean 5/3/1, Zercher Squat 5/3/1, Hack Squat 510, Bent Row 510
Wednesday - Clean & Press 5/3/1, Clean & Press 510, Ring Pullup 105, Ring Dip 10*5
Friday - Hang Snatch 5/3/1, Deadlift 5/3/1, Good Morning 510, Barbell Kurl 510
This is taking into account that I have nothing but a barbell and a set of rings to train with. I think I’m hitting everything pretty well here except abs, which have never been a problem for me. Obviously I can add them in if that changes. This is geared towards strongman training as that’s my eventual goal. Anyone see any glaring faults other than the lack of any bench work?
EDIT: When I say clean & press, I only mean cleaning the 1st rep, I don’t intend to clean every rep.
Why are you using zercher squats? I’d go with Front Squats.
“Nothing but a barbell and a set of rings” is my guess. And there is nothing wrong with Zerchers.
[/quote]
I fail. I don’t usually skim posts. I’m ashamed of myself. 
[quote]novaeer wrote:
dez6485 wrote:
are we done? or is there something else that someone would like to pick apart?
I for one would like to point out that your avatar is missing an eye. You are obviously not an expert. ;-)[/quote]
i used to be an expert in natty boh. now im amature at best.
guys guys guys…let’s not get hung up on the minutia here. That’s the beauty of Jim’s program. It’s simple and straight forward.
anyone have any real questions or comments? or do we wanna fight all weekend? lol
Myself, I gotta get some sleep and wake at 8am to train…DO NOT WANT!
[quote]Sick Rick wrote:
After reading a little on 5/3/1 I’ve decided to go ahead and try this because I’m in desperate need of strength (I’m a weak fucker relative to my weight…)
I don’t own the book and just read over a template write-up at bb.com, and this is what I got from it:
-3 workouts per week,
A squat
B bench
C Deadlift
D Military Press (this one begins in week 2, I’m assuming Monday)
-week one is 3x5, week 2 is 3x3, week 3 is 5/3/1 and week 4 is deload (excluding warm up sets)
-parameters are (again, excluding warm up sets)
week one: 75%x5, 80%x5, 85%x5
week two: 80%x3, 85%x3, 90%x3
week three: 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x1
week four: 60%x5, 65%x5, 70%x5
-2 sets of assistance exercises
-should take 5 weeks for one mesocycle
Is this correct?
From the posts here I’m assuming I can finish the deload week and then just start another mesocycle, correct me if I’m wrong.
Oh yeah, I’ll be consuming around 4000 calories, I’m assuming that’s sufficient.
[/quote]
- Reading this could give you a clearer idea: Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION – for example, that the percentages go off of a ‘working max’ which is not your 1 rep max and how to progress cycle to cycle.
- Your increments go up 5% (e.g. set 1 is 70%, set 2 is 75%), but Wendler currently recommends for most people a 10% jump schema.
- With each day you will want to do two assistance exercises, not two sets. The article provides some assistance suggestions, and the book goes into it a lot more.
- The book really is great, but you can also read through the hundreds of posts in this forum to get clearer on many things you may not know without having to ask things that have been asked before. It took a while, but I read through the book and this whole thread (including pt.1) and now I have no questions currently.
[quote]The other Rob wrote:
Here’s my plan for a 3 day a week 5/3/1 routine
Monday - Power Clean 5/3/1, Zercher Squat 5/3/1, Hack Squat 510, Bent Row 510
Wednesday - Clean & Press 5/3/1, Clean & Press 510, Ring Pullup 105, Ring Dip 10*5
Friday - Hang Snatch 5/3/1, Deadlift 5/3/1, Good Morning 510, Barbell Kurl 510
This is taking into account that I have nothing but a barbell and a set of rings to train with. I think I’m hitting everything pretty well here except abs, which have never been a problem for me. Obviously I can add them in if that changes. This is geared towards strongman training as that’s my eventual goal. Anyone see any glaring faults other than the lack of any bench work?
EDIT: When I say clean & press, I only mean cleaning the 1st rep, I don’t intend to clean every rep.[/quote]
You gotta work with what you got. That said, why not do some floor presses and/or some pushups using your rings to get some chest work in. Also, if you want to squat and/or bench, you could use some 2x4s to construct stands.
[quote]gsherman14 wrote:
The other Rob wrote:
Here’s my plan for a 3 day a week 5/3/1 routine
Monday - Power Clean 5/3/1, Zercher Squat 5/3/1, Hack Squat 510, Bent Row 510
Wednesday - Clean & Press 5/3/1, Clean & Press 510, Ring Pullup 105, Ring Dip 10*5
Friday - Hang Snatch 5/3/1, Deadlift 5/3/1, Good Morning 510, Barbell Kurl 510
This is taking into account that I have nothing but a barbell and a set of rings to train with. I think I’m hitting everything pretty well here except abs, which have never been a problem for me. Obviously I can add them in if that changes. This is geared towards strongman training as that’s my eventual goal. Anyone see any glaring faults other than the lack of any bench work?
EDIT: When I say clean & press, I only mean cleaning the 1st rep, I don’t intend to clean every rep.
You gotta work with what you got. That said, why not do some floor presses and/or some pushups using your rings to get some chest work in. Also, if you want to squat and/or bench, you could use some 2x4s to construct stands. [/quote]
I’m growing to like the Zerchers for squats. I’m doing dips as an accessory so I’m not completely neglecting my chest and from everything I’ve read, in strongman training the chest is relatively unimportant. If I get tired of Dips then I’ll swap them out for ring pushups or floor presses, but I don’t like the idea of either one being a main movement.
If I do add in a main chest movement then does anyone think that weighted ring pushups could replace the bench press? My only concern would be keeping the weight centered, but with a spotter that shouldn’t be a problem. Maybe just regular weighted push ups?
I do the same since I do not have a rack in my garage where the ceiling is high enough to press. If I were you, I would just say that you are pressing and not “clean & press” to avoid confusion.
[quote]
If I do add in a main chest movement then does anyone think that weighted ring pushups could replace the bench press? My only concern would be keeping the weight centered, but with a spotter that shouldn’t be a problem. Maybe just regular weighted push ups?[/quote]
(a) No, it doesn’t, but you work with what you have
(b) The whole point is to have an unstable surface so you have to work to keep your weight centered
(c) Get some chains and then you can add weight
(d) I disagree that strongman doesn’t require strong chest, but if it works for you then go for it
I’m looking for posts regarding the assistance work. Do most people use the same weight and do straight sets or do the ramp up or ramp down.
Just reply here or let me know the page numbers that it is posted on. Thanks.
[quote]gsherman14 wrote:
If I do add in a main chest movement then does anyone think that weighted ring pushups could replace the bench press? My only concern would be keeping the weight centered, but with a spotter that shouldn’t be a problem. Maybe just regular weighted push ups?
(a) No, it doesn’t, but you work with what you have
(b) The whole point is to have an unstable surface so you have to work to keep your weight centered
(c) Get some chains and then you can add weight
(d) I disagree that strongman doesn’t require strong chest, but if it works for you then go for it[/quote]
When I mentioned keeping the weight centered I was talking about a plate on my back, not balancing using the rings haha. I think you might be right about the strong chest, I’m thinking stones might take some serious chest strength. I may give the 4 day a week a try using weighted pushups, if it doesn’t seem to be working then I can drop back to my original plan. I do like the fact that it’ll be easier to control the weight increments as I don’t have to use plates in pairs.
[quote]The Austrian Oak wrote:
I’m looking for posts regarding the assistance work. Do most people use the same weight and do straight sets or do the ramp up or ramp down.
Just reply here or let me know the page numbers that it is posted on. Thanks.[/quote]
You can do either. I usually just do straight weight for the whole thing. Like 5 sets of 10 with the same weight. You can add weight too. I do that sometimes if I am just going to do 3 sets. I will add weight each time. If I am doing 5x10 though the weight stays the same.
Bottom line. Do what you like, just get the work in on the acc stuff.
[quote]The Austrian Oak wrote:
I’m looking for posts regarding the assistance work. Do most people use the same weight and do straight sets or do the ramp up or ramp down.
Just reply here or let me know the page numbers that it is posted on. Thanks.[/quote]
This is in the book.
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
The Austrian Oak wrote:
I’m looking for posts regarding the assistance work. Do most people use the same weight and do straight sets or do the ramp up or ramp down.
Just reply here or let me know the page numbers that it is posted on. Thanks.
This is in the book.[/quote]
Yea, I know it is.
I just wanted to see what people are actually doing. If they prefer one way over another.
p.s.- Jim, 5/3/1 is working great for me so far. It’s the only program that got my lifts to progress again.