Weed and Training

Training Bodybuilding
21

Hear comes the weed issue again… Some people drink and some people smoke. Neither is healthy or good for you in any kind of way, however…

Most of us would eat dog shit If it would lean us out or make us bigger and regardless we really dont know what any of these supplements will do to us in the long term.

I am a casual smoker, I agree with the recovery issue. I never smoke on a lift day. I also never smoke while Im taking a T supplement like Mag10 because thats just a waste of money.

There I said it.

22

Smoking the occasional joint (which could be once a month, once a week, or once a day) certainly will not help you reach your goals any quicker. That being said, it isn’t going to kill you either. The point is, you are already getting into the gym 3 times a week, and if your diet is on track, you are doing fine.

If you can smoke and 1) control your diet AND 2) maintain the same training schedule and intensity (mentally and physically), then keep smoking.

If diet and training start to slip, reconsider your smoking habits and maybe cut back a little or completely until you get your diet and training back on track. I used to smoke more in the past, and I realized that I needed to cut back a little because it was interfering with my diet. It is just too damn hard to resist the munchies sometimes! But after compromising, I have things in order, and I don’t see any problems.

Would it be better to completely stop? Of course. It would also be better if I just never splurged on the occasional pizza or beer. But pizza, beer, and pot are not inherently bad things, they just aren’t healthy. Moderation is the key.

Just keep your priorities straight. And don’t worry about the fat slob sipping on a mountain dew and eating Wendy’s who gives you a lecture on how pot will kill you. I hate that guy.

Phaedrus

23

To all, the original intent of my post was that yes drugs/sup. help us reach our goal. Is our goal to live the longest and be of the best health, probably not. Our goal is to Gain muscle and lose fat which in most cases is healthy, but not always. Would it be “healthy” to use Mag 10 for a year at a time, would it me healthy to use 5x’s the recommended dosage of MD6 for years. I would say no, but it may help us reach our goals.

Like I said before everything in moderation, almost everything has some sort of risk.

I personally think the most destructive/detrimental thing in our lives is STRESS. We all know what stress does to our T levels. If smoking a joint once or twice a month cuts your stress in half. Who cares?

24

The problem with this discussion, every time it comes up, is that all arguments are based on either speculation or personal feelings. I’ve yet to see a reference posted (here or anywhere) to a study demonstrating conclusively that weed lowers T, raises estrogen, or whatever…

That said, here are my personal feelings/experiences. I recently took Hot Rox for a few weeks, and couldn’t sleep for shit. I’m talking like 4-5 hours a night. To solve this problem, I started smoking sometimes in the evenings, and my sleep greatly improved. Question 1: Is my weight training progress going to be affected more by sleep deprivation, or a little ganja here and there? Also, I speculated that taking M might offset some of the negatives associated with weed. Question 2: Does taking M and smoking a little place me in a better hormonal situation than I would be if I were taking nothing? Now, I’m not trying to suggest that marijuana should be added to everyone’s supplement regimen right alongside their multivitamin; I’m just pointing out that substances can’t be categorized as ALL good or ALL bad.

Lastly, I personally feel that if one feels the need to use a recreational intoxicant, marijuana is much less harmful that alcohol in too many ways to list.

25 
 "Up with Hope, Down with Dope!"

                  -Thuragood
26

Any evidence that an occasional marijuana-induced case of the munchies would help out skinny bastards? Just curious. I am neither a skinny bastard nor a smoker, but I was just curious, as weight gain is one of the reasons AIDS patients and the like are encouraged to use it.

27

Garbage in, garbage out.

HAHAHAH! My Engineering profs LOVE using that! thats good shit Stella!

28

Burndaddy,

You seem to be missing the point and setting up a straw man to support the use of marijuana/alcohol. No one here would recommend using 5X the recommended dosage of MD6 or staying on MAG-10 for a year. Why? It would be counterproductive, unsafe, and it would keep us from achieving our goals–by potentially killing us in the first example and by shutting down T production in the second.

29

Ok, I don’t suggest anyone uses pot while training, or to attain any goals. The most valid argument I see here is that pot will not bring you closer to your goals while supplements will. But, I will support a few positive aspects of pot that could actually bring you closer to your goals depending upon what they are. First off pot increases appetite, I have actually seen in a few muscle mags that the use of pot moderately on a mass gaining diet could be beneficial. Crazy huh? Also, pot can reduce stress in some people (keyword “some”). This could translate into increased recovery for those people. This is just some food for thought. Anyone that wants to be at a professional level should not smoke pot no matter what the benefits. But, a amateur bodybuilder that smokes a joint every now and again probably isn’t going to suffer much. I’m biased of course, I hate alcohol and cigarettes and see no use for them at all. Even as recreational drugs. But I do think pot can help some people- mainly those with cancer and other extreme conditions.

30

Wow, aolt of realy cool people out there. Glad to see that no one has been even a little jugemental. I am fully aware that one needs to make sacrifices to achieve goals, but we are human. Even the most hard core of dieters cheat once in a while. Mental health is just as important as physical, and I know that I would go nuts if I could never enjoy some of lifes guilty pleasures

31 
"I'm just here for the same reason every one is here for, THE FREE CRACK!"

              Tyrone Bigums
32

I posted this about a year or two ago. Personally I feel that if you praise the use of anabolic steroids yet look down on marijuana despite its proven uses as significant pain reducer, anxiety reduction agent and appetite stimulant, you are a hypocrite who only believes what they see on Saturday morning commercials that scream, “don’t do drugs!”.

Marijuana Smoking vs Cannabinoids for Glaucoma Therapy
JAMAVol. 116 No. 11,
November 1998

It is undisputed that smoking of marijuana plant material causes a fall in intraocular pressure (IOP) in 60% to 65% of users which can benefit sufferers of glaucoma

Does Marijuana Use Cause Long-term Cognitive Deficits?
JAMAVol. 287 No. 20,
May 22/29, 2002

Both of these laboratory studies found minimal cognitive deficits after marijuana administration in experienced users and suggest that recent marijuana use is a minimal confounder in experienced marijuana users. Data from well-controlled laboratory studies in combination with data from retrospective studies can ultimately provide a more comprehensive view of marijuana-related effects on human cognitive performance.

Therapeutic Marijuana Use Supported While Thorough Proposed Study Done
JAMAVol. 281 No. 16,
April 28, 1999

The investigators said the data suggest marijuana may help with pain relief, nausea, and appetite stimulation?.“Marijuana’s potential as medicine is seriously undermined by the fact that people smoke it, thereby increasing their chance of cancer, lung damage, and problems with pregnancies, including low birth weight,” Benson said. “For that reason, we do not recommend smoking marijuana for long-term medical use. While we see a future in the development of chemically defined cannabinoid drugs, we see little future in smoked marijuana as a medicine.”

Marijuana and Glaucoma
JAMAVol. 116 No. 11,
November 1998

Where do marijuana and the cannabinoids fit in? Since our present therapy is directed only at lowering IOP, we must ask whether marijuana lowers the IOP. The answer in humans is an unequivocal yes. Several good studies show that smoking a marijuana cigarette reduces the IOP in normal subjects from approximately 15 to 11 mm Hg, a 24% reduction. The Goldmann equation indicates that the higher the IOP, the greater the IOP-lowering effect for a given suppression of fluid formation or enhancement of fluid drainage. In a group of patients with glaucoma and ocular hypertension, with starting IOP of approximately 30 mm Hg, smoking a similar marijuana cigarette decreased IOP to approximately 21 or 22 mm Hg, also a 20% to 25% reduction. This result is comparable with that of other glaucoma medications, including the recently approved ones.

I have not been able to find any studies showing a decrease in testosterone, however, from I have found any studies that supposedly showed this were conducted in adolescents. The truth is, marijuana clearly has a place in medicine, however, because of the stigma attached, there are very few studies geared towards finding a use or examining any possible benefits?much like steroid use. Steroids decrease circulating testosterone by the way, so I would assume that someone worried about this effect would stay away from those as well. There is a cancer risk from smoking it which is why some groups are trying to find ways around that problem by ingesting it instead. Marijuana is an illegal drug so that should be the defining factor, however, it appears to be no more harmful than LEGAL alcohol and cigarette smoke, both of which are chemically addictive while marijuana has proven not to be. -Professor X

33

Here’s a study that showed decreased LH and T levels from cannabinoid intake:
Drug Alcohol Depend 1981 Aug;8(1):1-22

In this one, LH levels decreased and cortisol levels increased significantly in males following a session:
Pharmacol Biochem Behav 1986 Jun;24(6):1749-54

There are studies out there suggesting that chronic use of the chronic could chronically lower T levels. But there are just as many showing the opposite. Will you guys at least admit that daily smokers often have estrogenic rages when they can’t get their hands on some buds?

When I was in high school, there was this weed that was all the hype with my friends called the “Barney Bud.” It was purple. We found out later that it was dipped in embalming fluid, which was known on the west coast as the chronic. Kinda like a carcinogen cocktail.

34

Chris,

1 year of MAG-10 would not kill me; pro’s are on much stronger Androgens at higher dosages for longer periods of time. I do believe that one year of constant use would not be “conterproductive,unsafe, and would keep us from achieivng our goals”.(forget I even brought up the MD6 example even though it was possible that it has happened) It all comes down to what our goals are 1.muscles,less fat 2.Health only 3. A moderate mix of both. I tend to believe in the moderate mix of both. I know that this is kinda getting away from the original intent of the post, but it all comes back to moderation. I laugh everyime I see the post on this or that food has 500mg of soy protien, and should I eliminate it from my diet.

I would also like to thank the people who have responded to this post in an adult like manner. I get sick of seeing “your stupid, no you are” on other boards.

35

Burndaddy,

I never said a year of constant MAG-10 use would kill you; we both know it wouldn’t. I said it would likely shut down natural T production. You and I are actually in complete agreement about the ultimate goal being a healthy lifestyle; my initial point was merely that it isn’t hypocritical to advocate responsible use of supplements while advocating that people refrain from even responsible use of recreational drugs. I do see one as helping to reach one’s goals, while the best case scenario for the other is that it doesn’t detract too badly.

Respectfully,

Chris McClinch

36

Chris, I misread your original post on Mag10 shutting down T. I just find it funny that shutting down T is usually the main argument used against pot and Alcohol.

I also think that to answer the original question we need to know the individual’s goals.

37

I actually don’t see much irony in the shutting down T counterarguments. In both cases, we’re talking about not doing things that have a negative impact on the hormonal environment. Be that as it may, you’re right about needing to know the poster’s goals. He strikes me as a recreational fitness/better physique-type lifter, which means the occasional joint probably isn’t going to hold him back too much from his goals. My advice to a competitive athlete or competitive bodybuilder would of course be different.

38

Get some sour cream and onion chips with some dip, man, some beef jerky, some peanut butter. Get some Haagen-Das ice cream bars, a whole lot, make sure chocolate, gotta have chocolate, man. Some popcorn, red popcorn, graham crackers, graham crackers with marshmallows, the little marshmallows and little chocolate bars and we can make smores, man. Also, celery, grape jelly, Captain Crunch with the little Crunch berries, pizzas. We need two big pizzas, man, everything on 'em, with water, whole lotta water, and Funyons…That’s it?

Just my opinion: Honeslty, I think that the fact that people would “flame” someone for asking a question like this is ludicrous, considering this site/forum was built under the notion that we should be able to ask about anything affecting our lives. As much as some people would like to deny it, there are a lot of people in this world that smoke pot!!! SOME are people that MAY not necessarily fit the “stoner” description, however, and the fact that they toke doesn’t make them bad people, I don’t care what anyone says. If you’re an adult, mature and responsible enough to make decisions for yourself, and find that smoking fits into your lifestyle in a safe and acceptable manner for you, then great! It is a victimless crime that in reality only hurts those who directly engage in it. To give you an example, like one I read earlier on this same thread, I was a heavy smoker in my college years (couple of times a day for about 2 years, on and off).

Now, having said this, most are picturing a complete bum, stoned out of his mind, laying on the couch of his filthy apartment, ungroomed and unmotivated to clean, train, study, whatever…sorry to dissapoint guys and girls, I didn’t quite fit the bill. During my peak of “Marley-ness” I was able to not only make considerable gains in my physique, as in adding about 25lbs of muscle in 6-8 months while keeping my 5% BF, but made sure my GPA didn’t dip below 3.65 (possible 4.0 scale). All this while recieving a political internship in Washington DC (White House) and preparing for LAW school.

I’m not one to brag about accomplishments or feel that I’m in any position to put anyone down or “flame” them…Those who do are sadly, the uneducated masses that in an attempt to cloak their own shortcomings categorize those individuals who smoke simply as “losers.” My preaching however, is likely to change nothing, but thats not really whats intended. I just hope one day people can realize that others whom do not share the same beliefs, traditions, practices, lifestyles, etc…are just as important in this world as they are, and thats they shouldn’t judge based on superficial distinctions.

Reality though: That’s the world we live in, and seeing as how those “judgements” have led to some of the most catastrophic events of all human history (wars, political/religious persecution) I don’t see it changing anytime soon…It’s human nature at it’s best and I guess we’re all just going to have to deal… Thanks for listening ladies and gents, good luck in life, and Cheers!

39

[quote]When I was in high school, there was this weed that was all the hype with my friends called the “Barney Bud.” It was purple. We found out later that it was dipped in embalming fluid, which was known on the west coast as the chronic. Kinda like a carcinogen cocktail.
[/quote]

That’s not chronic - that’s the syssurp! That’s what some rappers are talking about when they say, “sippin’ on syssurp.” Chronic is just good bud. Really good bud.

40

I’ve smoked a blunt everyday for the last 3 months while bulking, sometimes a few/day. During this time I’ve added almost 15 pounds of muscle. All of my lifts are way up, almost 80 pounds on my squat and 45 pounds on my bench.

I keep smoking and lifting separate, meaning I never lift after just having smoked. I often smoke after my Surge, and use the big appetite to eat a huge meal in the PWO window.

I’m not trying to say that smoking everyday has helped me in anyway, I just don’t think it’s hurting me. I’m only 19 so maybe my T levels remain high despite smoking?