Weak People on T-Nation

Off Topic
101

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Kataklysm wrote:

Sure I’ll try.

The way I see it, if someone trained for a year, followed a very good diet religiously, stayed home to eat cottage cheese instead of going out with friends, hit the gym constantly, gave it everything they had and strived to make constant progress, they deserve props.

No, they don’t. Unless all of that avoidance of pleasure actually produced results to justify it, it was simply that person being anti-social. The ends justify the means.

Also, cottage cheese? Nasty.

I just think that encouraging someone who’s on the right track is a great sign of respect to our sport and our fellow lifters.

How many people are actually on the right track? The right track is the one producing significant results. The right track is not, “ooooh, I actually gained 1lbs in 6 months”.

This isn’t Slimfast-Nation.[/quote]

I mentionned a loss of 15 pounds of fat and 10 pounds of lean mass… it was just an example but most beginner’s can expect that kind of progress within a year. I know I did better than that.

I’m just saying that outside of the actual results, people who really shit blood and guts to become bigger deserve props.

Edit: Cottage cheese rocks

102

[quote]Kataklysm wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Kataklysm wrote:

Sure I’ll try.

The way I see it, if someone trained for a year, followed a very good diet religiously, stayed home to eat cottage cheese instead of going out with friends, hit the gym constantly, gave it everything they had and strived to make constant progress, they deserve props.

No, they don’t. Unless all of that avoidance of pleasure actually produced results to justify it, it was simply that person being anti-social. The ends justify the means.

Also, cottage cheese? Nasty.

I just think that encouraging someone who’s on the right track is a great sign of respect to our sport and our fellow lifters.

How many people are actually on the right track? The right track is the one producing significant results. The right track is not, “ooooh, I actually gained 1lbs in 6 months”.

This isn’t Slimfast-Nation.

I mentionned a loss of 15 pounds of fat and 10 pounds of lean mass… it was just an example but most beginner’s can expect that kind of progress within a year. I know I did better than that.

I’m just saying that outside of the actual results, people who really shit blood and guts to become bigger deserve props.

Edit: Cottage cheese rocks[/quote]

Wait, now you are contradicting yourself. Someone who truly [quote]shit blood and guts to become bigger[/quote] as a beginner would make even more progress than simply gaining 10lbs of muscle in a year and they would also understand the desire to be around other people who also [quote]shit blood and guts to become bigger[/quote].

You can call that elitism all you like but I am not the same as the fat housewife who is jumping on the Hollywood Juice diet for the 55th time.

103

[quote]Kataklysm wrote:
NeelyDan wrote:
I think you’re forgetting the fact that this site was designed to be elitist by nature.

There are more run of the mill environments out there for people to leverage if they don’t find what they seek here.

Sorry but where was that mentionned? Bare with me bro but if there’s a fucking beginner’s section, then it’s not just a site for pro body builders.

As PX has mentionned several times, there are very few people here who are really hardcore (by his standards anyways :P) so if it really was such an elitist site, we wouldn’t be here Neelydan. You and me both. [/quote]

To my understanding this site is dedicated to the Alpha Male. I think the point is that there are a bunch of people who are omegas in the gym and alphas online.

And it’s not that you can’t be here at an early developmental stage, it’s just that people at that early stage seem to give a lot of advice. You have to know your place, there is always a bigger fish.

I recently started training PL with a guy who will be attempting an 800 pound DL this weekend in a USAPL meet. When I’m in the gym with him I keep my mouth shut and try to quietly get my ass kicked. I have not once tried to offer him advice because he’s been lifting about as long as I’ve been alive. There isn’t anything I could possibly offer him. And I’m a much better lifter now because of it, not to mention he actually likes training with me.

104

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Kataklysm wrote:
NeelyDan wrote:
I think you’re forgetting the fact that this site was designed to be elitist by nature.

There are more run of the mill environments out there for people to leverage if they don’t find what they seek here.

Sorry but where was that mentionned? Bare with me bro but if there’s a fucking beginner’s section, then it’s not just a site for pro body builders.

As PX has mentionned several times, there are very few people here who are really hardcore (by his standards anyways :P) so if it really was such an elitist site, we wouldn’t be here Neelydan. You and me both.

To my understanding this site is dedicated to the Alpha Male. I think the point is that there are a bunch of people who are omegas in the gym and alphas online.

And it’s not that you can’t be here at an early developmental stage, it’s just that people at that early stage seem to give a lot of advice. You have to know your place, there is always a bigger fish.

I recently started training PL with a guy who will be attempting an 800 pound DL this weekend in a USAPL meet. When I’m in the gym with him I keep my mouth shut and try to quietly get my ass kicked. I have not once tried to offer him advice because he’s been lifting about as long as I’ve been alive. There isn’t anything I could possibly offer him. And I’m a much better lifter now because of it, not to mention he actually likes training with me.[/quote]

Good post.

Instead, on this site we get people who aren’t doctors and probably haven’t even finished college trying to diagnose spinal disease and winged scapulas. You have rank beginners telling other newbies to avoid training biceps directly (as if this is some generic response now).

If you just started lifting yourself, it would do you well to STOP acting like you know so much no matter what you’ve read somewhere.

105

[quote]Professor X wrote:

This isn’t Slimfast-Nation.
[/quote]

lol

106

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Kataklysm wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Kataklysm wrote:

Sure I’ll try.

The way I see it, if someone trained for a year, followed a very good diet religiously, stayed home to eat cottage cheese instead of going out with friends, hit the gym constantly, gave it everything they had and strived to make constant progress, they deserve props.

No, they don’t. Unless all of that avoidance of pleasure actually produced results to justify it, it was simply that person being anti-social. The ends justify the means.

Also, cottage cheese? Nasty.

I just think that encouraging someone who’s on the right track is a great sign of respect to our sport and our fellow lifters.

How many people are actually on the right track? The right track is the one producing significant results. The right track is not, “ooooh, I actually gained 1lbs in 6 months”.

This isn’t Slimfast-Nation.

I mentionned a loss of 15 pounds of fat and 10 pounds of lean mass… it was just an example but most beginner’s can expect that kind of progress within a year. I know I did better than that.

I’m just saying that outside of the actual results, people who really shit blood and guts to become bigger deserve props.

Edit: Cottage cheese rocks

Wait, now you are contradicting yourself. Someone who truly shit blood and guts to become bigger as a beginner would make even more progress than simply gaining 10lbs of muscle in a year and they would also understand the desire to be around other people who also shit blood and guts to become bigger.
[/quote]

The numbers I used are irrelevant, it was merely an example.

When have I said that they shouldn’t feel the need to be around bigger guys? I love training around bigger guys, the other day the owner of my gym, who’s a competitive bodybuilder, told me that he was impressed by my progress in the past years and that he wished he would have started out at such a young age and with such dedication. It really hit home and gave me new motivation, to see this huge guy show respect like that. You don’t see that too much on T-Nation, which is too bad because you’d see much more elite lifters if actual elite lifters would quit their hardcore attitudes and try poiting newbs to the right direction.

[quote]
You can call that elitism all you like but I am not the same as the fat housewife who is jumping on the Hollywood Juice diet for the 55th time.[/quote]

Haha fair enough. I’m not either, as most people on this site. You’re just too hardcore for me I guess.

107

[quote]Professor X wrote:
bob_sander87 wrote:
Is it just me that finds all this “light yourself on fire and get pissed” stuff strange? I’ve been lifting and stuffing my face for 2.5 years straight now, not because I’m pissed off, but because I fucking LOOOVE lifting weights and getting big and strong. It keeps me happy actually.

…and how much progress have you made?

Whatever your motivation comes from, I am willing to bet the person who finds that “internal rage” to push against in the gym will make more progress than the guy who finds such an emotion strange.

When football players get ready for the field, they psyche themselves out. The feel in the room is not, “don’t we just love this!?” It is, “let’s rip their fucking heads off and shove them down their throats”.

If you find this strange, don’t ever…EVER…play football.

In that game, somebody loses. The goal is for it not to be you.[/quote]

Plenty actually… when i started, I could barely bench press 95 pounds… Now im closing in on 300… (sittin at 280 currently)

Deadlift is at 415 and squat is at 365. Body composition has always been a bit of a mess, but on my recent 9 weeks of cutting i’ve managed to drop from 247 to 212. I’ve been a happy camper every step of the way!

108

One of the biggest reasons why lifting was so attractive to me, was the fact that I got what I gave. How many things in life are like that? You bust you ass at work, stay late, come in early, give 110 percent, then they promote the guy who you barely knew existed, in the cube behind you. For the average guy, mediocre effort gets mediocre results.

I personally don’t promote guys who come to work on time, do their work, take lunch, then go home at the end of their normal work day. They get PAID for doing what they’re supposed to be doing.That is their reward. I’m not rewarding them for being average.

When i’m in the gym, it’s all about ME, nobody else. When I broke a new PR, I celebrated in my mind, then that PR was old news the next day and it was onto the next one. While having people aknowledge my accomplishments was nice, but I didn’t need it, because in a selfish way it didn’t matter what they thought. It’s about what I wanted for myself.It was my victory. People would say that I should be satified with the progress that I made, but that’s the point, I was NEVER satisfied.

What used to bother me the most about going to the gym, was I’d see guys in the locker room, or on the gym floor, and they’d say “I have to drag my ass here 4-5 days a week, and it’s apain in the ass, but you do what you have to do, right?” or “I can’t wait to get out of here. Don’t you wish that there was some sort of magic pill that just gave you the perfect body?” and my reply was always “Um, no, I love coming here, and there’s times I never wanted to leave.” I’d usually get a strange look or something, but I didn’t care.

The point that i’m making, is that I LOVED being in the gym, training how I wanted, without someone telling me how to do it. I’ve had enough people telling me what to through my life.

I’ve always had a self abusive streak, and was very frustrated in my life. I held everything in. The gym was a perfect outlet for me. I trained how I felt, listened to my body, and it was all about perfomance. I wanted to lift super heavy, with short rest periods, while maintaining next to perfect form, then i’d let the results show for themselves.

If someone tells me that they added 10 pounds to their bench, hey, that’s good, but don’t really LOOK for most people to give a shit. This activity has nothing to do with anyone else but you, period. You have to become your own coach, team, cheerleader, and waterboy, in your own mind.

I’m done. Have fun.

109

Wow, I leave work and hit the weights…come back the next day and this thread exploded!

How controversial of me.

110

I’m weak, you probably shouldn’t listen to me if i give advice although i’m making progress! Still can’t bench my bodyweight though.

I look back at some of my posts though and realize I was pretty dumb too, and i’ll probably look back again in 6 months or so and realize that again. Live and learn though.

111

[quote]Professor X wrote:
The ones who actually have the drive to take this to an extreme level are few. They always have been.[/quote]

That is very true. I can attest to this first hand being a college student. While everyone else is out partying, I’m sleeping. While everyone else is out eating McDonald’s with their friends I’m in my kitchen cooking. I’m the only person I have seen in the last 2 years at my University that not only has my backpack on my back, but also a cooler in one hand and a gallon of water in the other. It takes a lot to do what we do, but to that select few of us it’s worth the extra effort. I guess it just comes down to how much you love it and how badly you want it. It’s hard for the “average Joe” to prioritize and create the mental atmosphere that we have.

112

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think people are responding because there don’t seem to be many people on this site who have a serious attitude towards lifting. Most seem to have a half assed attitude about lifting and think you can’t be a normal person with a job and still train like a bodybuilder.[/quote]

I agree with this 100%

People on this site loose alot of what this site is about between the keyboard and the weightroom.

113

[quote]nowakc wrote:
I’m weak, you probably shouldn’t listen to me if i give advice although i’m making progress! Still can’t bench my bodyweight though.

I look back at some of my posts though and realize I was pretty dumb too, and i’ll probably look back again in 6 months or so and realize that again. Live and learn though.[/quote]

  1. Who cares about your weak bench?

  2. This post doesn’t make any sense. Did you actually learn if you continued to make dumb posts for another 6 months?

114

[quote]hypnotoad wrote:
B rocK wrote:
"Please define “weak.” "

It’s all a peronal definition.

I’m almost at a 300lb bench, and even then I will see 315, 350 etc…and think “I’m still weak”.

I used to be alot weaker and smaller.

for the fun of it; i look at some of my oldest posts.

haa i was little and stupid.

“was”

if you dont consider yourself strong (and a sub 300 pound bench would indicate this, as well) why are you calling out others on not being strong? are you saying you yourself are part of the ‘problem’ on this site?

[/quote]

I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder.

I don’t consider myself ‘strong’ because my idea of ‘strong’ changes as I progress.

I am continually getting stronger and stonger. Since I started lifting, I have only had one setback. Other then that I have done nothing but focus on getting bigger, faster and/or stronger.

So maybe in the eyes of stonger people (Prof X, Bauer etc…) I might be “weak” or “part of the unstrong majority”. But to other people on here; I might be strong. Who knows!

115

[quote]Tristram wrote:
OP:

If I am interpreting this discussion correctly, the problem is that there are people here who insist on talking the talk who at the same time cannot walk the walk. They have no experience, claim to know everything, and are somehow always better than you and, to top things off, always know what YOU should be doing.

I think these people and their ilk can be found in all walks of life, and the best method of dealing with them is to just ignore them. I am sure that a lot of rain has fallen on a lot of us, but we just let it roll off our backs, and keep going on.

These annoyances will always be there, as the world has no shortage of dick heads, but, those who know what they are doing and actually achieve goals will always be there also.

I don’t think there is really much point in arguing with the assholes, as an argument with the truly ignorant can never be won, to paraphrase a quote that I can’t remember exactly.

Ok, so my 2 cents can be summed up by: Don’t let the bastards get you down. End rant/pep talk/sermon or whatever.[/quote]

Yup. Your right.

That basically sums up my feeling on the site/world in general.

I just posted it because I thought that more people would be a big bigger/stronger i guess?

I dunno the REAL REASON why I posted this? Maybe I just wanted a goddam cookie.

I’ll let this thread explode/sink over the weekend…I’m otuta here till monday. Hope you weak people get stronger between now and then, I know I sure as hell will be!!!

116

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Strength is relative. I started out very small. I’ll never call myself weak, because I’m strong for my size. I have a PL trophy from when I was a teen. Now that I’m in my 40s, having had 2 knee surgeries, bursitis, rotator cuff issues, and presently suffering tendinitis all over, strength is of little concern to me now. This is no excuse or cop-out. It’s fact that I have to live with. How many guys truly gain strength just for the bragging rights in the gym or on the forums?

I’ve always wanted to be huge, and strength was a way to achieve that. Injuries sidelined me every step of the way. I’m not large by any stretch. Nor am I strong enough to compete in PL meets anymore. But at 45 I’m healthy, in shape, and have an optimistic life view. And I couldn’t care less if anyone thinks I’m weak and small. [/quote]

No one could possibly look down on you. You’ve been there done that. All of it. You competed, you made tons of progress, you were in it for the long haul. At some point, everyone gets sidelined by injuries and has to reevaluate. It happens. I’m glad you are where you are now.

I think the big thing is that you MADE the progress in the first place. To me it doesn’t matter where someone started, but how far they’ve come. The mental attitude also matters to me as well, because even people who’ve made progress can still mentally short change themselves.

117

[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
Kataklysm wrote:
It’s incredible how everyone’s post is the exact same when you look at the last 2-3 pages.

“Z&K suck, they’re not pushing hard and they’re making excuses. ME on the other side, I’m pushing more than everyone in the world and I started out at X weight and now I’m at Y benching W, one day I’ll be J. Blah blah blah…”

It’s pretty sad that on a bodybuilding site, nobody compliments others on their achievements but instead bashes them and tries to show how better they are. It’s like if you can’t lift half a ton and increase your lean body mass by 100 pounds after a year of training, you’re a failure and you’re training like a douche.

That’s your interpretation, though.

I say kudos to the guys giving shit to someone who says they’re 5’6 and destined to be small. Why cater and humour such whiny bullshit?

A lot of these guys doing the bashing have been through the trenches and accomplished what 90% of the site says they cannot, under similar circumstances. Couple that with the fact that they’ve seen 10 years of the same shit, and you can understand how they’re a touch less than gentle when it comes to conveying their thoughts.

A lot of people just can’t accept the fact that they ARE training like a douchebag. I know I was.

[/quote]

Yeah I agree NeelyDan. I’m not a paragon of progress by any means. I’ve screwed up a number of times. But here’s the thing–I went through that phase when I started out. Same circumstances, same excuses floating through my head. It took PX and others bashing me to knock me out of that funk. If I’d been told “hey, nice going dudez” repeatedly, I’d never have made the progress I did.

If anyone Oogies me (please god don’t do that) they can easily see what an idiot I was when I first started posting after my lurking phase. And they can easily see that I got the same type of crap from PX that others do now. But it was a good thing.

Kataklysm–there’s plenty of compliments floating around, for those who’ve earned it. The whole idea is that your results have to be good. You have to earn the compliment.

The other thing is that this ISN’T about the 1 year mark. It’s about the 5-10 year mark. A newb who rocked some good progress in a year WILL get complimented, and then told to shut up and do it for another year.

The journey’s not over after 1 year. It’s never over.

Similar to DoubleDuce, I know and have trained a couple of times with a “top 20” PLer. I shut the hell up and listen to what he says. And he a lot of times gives me crap like PX does to newbs. I can’t offer him anything, so I ask questions and shut up and LISTEN to the answers, even when, ESPECIALLY when, I don’t like the answers. I know my place, and my place is to shut up and listen.

Look, most people know me as a fairly level-headed individual. the big problems I have are

  1. newbs who give advice instead of taking it. Shut up and/or ask questions. Know your place, pay your dues, just like all of us did.

  2. people who haven’t made any significant progress towards their goals. It doesn’t matter so much what their goals are to me, as how much closer they’ve gotten to them. I don’t care if you want to be a rock climber, an MMA artist, a PLer, or a bodybuilder, or a track athlete, or to lose tons of fat. Just work at it and make progress.

Caveat to #1-- it’s perfectly cool to share your experiences and what you’ve learned through them to other people. There are a couple people on the Beginner’s forum who’ve been helpful to the newbs there while still being relative beginners themselves. They share their experiences, and what they learned. That’s cool. People can learn from that. It’s NOT cool to give advice in an authoritative manner.

Caveat to #2-- whether the progress is significant depends on a few things-- training age, starting point, disabilities, injuries, health problems, all that stuff. It doesn’t have to be mindblowing, but it should reflect the amount of effort one says he’s put into things. Also, a good attitude goes lightyears towards NOT being harassed.

118

[quote]B rocK wrote:
I don’t consider myself ‘strong’ because my idea of ‘strong’ changes as I progress.
[/quote]

I do agree with this. The longer I train, the more I gain and the more I see. So, what I once thought was strong, just isn’t anymore. For example, when I first started lifting I had a lifetime goal of benching 4 plates. I had no idea or concept of what it would take to get there, I just “knew” that was strong. Now that I’m closing in on it, I have a goal of 500 pounds. But this time it’s not a lifetime goal. I might get there and realize I can push myself further.

119

[quote]bob_sander87 wrote:
Is it just me that finds all this “light yourself on fire and get pissed” stuff strange? I’ve been lifting and stuffing my face for 2.5 years straight now, not because I’m pissed off, but because I fucking LOOOVE lifting weights and getting big and strong. It keeps me happy actually. [/quote]

That’s cool mate. Whatever motivates you the most. Some people it’s anger, and some it’s the sheer joy they get out of lifting and progressing. For me it’s a bit of both at the moment.

For the majority of people, however, I’ve found that becoming angry with yourself is the key to really starting something long term. Shugart says a lot of things I don’t agree with, but he’s dead right about that one. The fatass that wakes up in the morning and looks at himself and says “my God, what am I doing? I’m disgusting. This can’t be allowed to happen anymore.” typically makes better progress than an identical person who says “I want to firm up, lose some fat, be in shape”.

So, yeah, whatever motivates you.

120

Probably a little off topic, but I think the word “hardcore” is overused. Quite frankly, so many people use it these days that I quit using it.