I have had personal dealings with both Eric Cressey and John Davies. I have nothing but great things to say about Eric’s knowledge and ability to get something done.
As for Davies, if you have nothing nice to say…
[quote]doogie wrote:
jackzepplin wrote:
doogie wrote:
Renegade Certified Personal Trainer
(from renegadetraining.com)
Incredible pic, but what’s your point?
No point. I just thought they were very funny pictures.[/quote]
You act as if RT is only about squatting on a swiss ball with weight. Sorry, but instability training is a very small component of it. I believe pictures like that have been taken out of context. They were more for what is possible rather than what makes up RT.
Also, much of the instability training RT uses is the same as those using strongman or odd-object lifts (farmer’s walks, sandbags, kbells, kegs, tires, etc.). There are only a few programs or cases where someone may actually use other instability lifts (Indo board, lunges on an Indo flo cushion, squatting on a Swiss ball, etc.). But it’s not something you see with every program or for every athlete using RT.
Again, unless you have ever used RT, how can you comment on its effectiveness or what it is comprised of?
It’s really not any different than what many other coaches/writers talk about on this site in their countless articles covering the same topics (O-lifts, strength training, conditioning, flexiblity, injury prevention/rehab, etc.). RT just puts it all together within one program rather than showing you bits and pieces.
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
You act as if RT is only about squatting on a swiss ball with weight. Sorry, but instability training is a very small component of it. [/quote]
More significant than you could possibly imagine, Nate. Wait six months and find out.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
I have had personal dealings with both Eric Cressey and John Davies. I have nothing but great things to say about Eric’s knowledge and ability to get something done.
As for Davies, if you have nothing nice to say…[/quote]
just say you don’t like the guy. you can’t have it both ways. and since you’ve opened the door why not step on through ? please tell us about your experiences.
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
Nate Dogg wrote:
You act as if RT is only about squatting on a swiss ball with weight. Sorry, but instability training is a very small component of it.
More significant than you could possibly imagine, Nate. Wait six months and find out.[/quote]
LOL!
Well, if I follow only one particular RT program, and it turns into nothing but Swiss ball squats and Indo boards, I won’t be using it!
My training always focuses on “general” Renegade Training and the six focus lifts (squat, snatch, clean, deadlift, bench, push press/jerk). I also have multiple programs for various goals (fat loss, mass gain, general conditioning, powerlifting, complex training, etc.). I can always use them as needed throughout the year. I don’t have to stick to one particular program and follow it from beginning to end. 
Besides, it’s not like my overall goal of health and fitness is going to fall to the wayside or become fixated on instability training.
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
Nate Dogg wrote:
You act as if RT is only about squatting on a swiss ball with weight. Sorry, but instability training is a very small component of it.
[quote]
My UNINFORMED THEORY is that Eric’s research has led him to evidence which suggests the dangers of instability training.
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
You act as if RT is only about squatting on a swiss ball with weight. Sorry, but instability training is a very small component of it. I believe pictures like that have been taken out of context. They were more for what is possible rather than what makes up RT.
[/quote]
Nate Dogg,
I took the picture straight of the Renegade website, explained that it was a Renegade Certified Trainer, and made no editorial comment about it at all. I didn’t act like anything.
The picture was placed next to the trainer’s biography. Presumably, the trainer chose that particular picture because he thought it would best represent his abilities and earn him the most clients. I do think that is very funny (especially when you look at the guy’s build).
Your need to defend it so passionately is curious.
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
Nate Dogg wrote:
You act as if RT is only about squatting on a swiss ball with weight. Sorry, but instability training is a very small component of it.
More significant than you could possibly imagine, Nate. Wait six months and find out.[/quote]
What’s in 6 months? Is that when your research paper is finished?
[quote]doogie wrote:
Nate Dogg wrote:
You act as if RT is only about squatting on a swiss ball with weight. Sorry, but instability training is a very small component of it. I believe pictures like that have been taken out of context. They were more for what is possible rather than what makes up RT.
Nate Dogg,
I took the picture straight of the Renegade website, explained that it was a Renegade Certified Trainer, and made no editorial comment about it at all. I didn’t act like anything.
The picture was placed next to the trainer’s biography. Presumably, the trainer chose that particular picture because he thought it would best represent his abilities and earn him the most clients. I do think that is very funny (especially when you look at the guy’s build).
Your need to defend it so passionately is curious.
[/quote]
Why is it “curious?” It’s his opinion and he stated it. What’s yours?
What’s so funny about his build? Because the guy’s kinda skinny?
Elaborate.
[quote]BPC wrote:
Why is it “curious?” It’s his opinion and he stated it. What’s yours?[/quote]
I’ve long known Nate’s opinion on renegade training and he’s long known mine. It was curious because he was defending renegade training against accusations that weren’t being made.
If he gains about 30lbs. he’ll be “kinda skinny.”
[quote]doogie wrote:
Your need to defend it so passionately is curious.
[/quote]
I’ll defend anything that I am truly passionate about. I think many things about RT are great, and I’ve used it with much success. Coach Davies said that I don’t need to defend him or RT. He’s right. But I’ll defend something I believe in.
My overall goal is health and fitness. Not just gaining mass. Not just being strong. Not just looking good. I want to train in order to enhance my life. To make me better. To give me the energy to do whatever is important to me. To make other activities easy and enjoyable.
Life isn’t just about lifting weights. I actually like to do things besides push iron around. I’m active. I enjoy many outdoor activities, and I have many other interests. RT carries over to those things.
Training just for strength or mass is silly to me. I’m not a competitive bodybuilder or powerlifter. I’m not going to forsake my health in order to reach those particular goals. I don’t want to walk around looking like I can’t function in the real world because my body is stiff, nonfunctional and unhealthy.
With RT, I stay healthy and fit, I become leaner, my conditioning is through the roof, my flexibility is greatly enhanced, my strength and muscle mass are also postively affected. It makes me more athletic.
Good enough for you?
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
doogie wrote:
Your need to defend it so passionately is curious.
I’ll defend anything that I am truly passionate about. I think many things about RT are great, and I’ve used it with much success. Coach Davies said that I don’t need to defend him or RT. He’s right. But I’ll defend something I believe in.
My overall goal is health and fitness. Not just gaining mass. Not just being strong. Not just looking good. I want to train in order to enhance my life. To make me better. To give me the energy to do whatever is important to me. To make other activities easy and enjoyable.
Life isn’t just about lifting weights. I actually like to do things besides push iron around. I’m active. I enjoy many outdoor activities, and I have many other interests. RT carries over to those things.
Training just for strength or mass is silly to me. I’m not a competitive bodybuilder or powerlifter. I’m not going to forsake my health in order to reach those particular goals. I don’t want to walk around looking like I can’t function in the real world because my body is stiff, nonfunctional and unhealthy.
With RT, I stay healthy and fit, I become leaner, my conditioning is through the roof, my flexibility is greatly enhanced, my strength and muscle mass are also postively affected. It makes me more athletic.
Good enough for you?[/quote]
That was very nicely stated.
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
doogie wrote:
Your need to defend it so passionately is curious.
I’ll defend anything that I am truly passionate about. I think many things about RT are great, and I’ve used it with much success. Coach Davies said that I don’t need to defend him or RT. He’s right. But I’ll defend something I believe in.
My overall goal is health and fitness. Not just gaining mass. Not just being strong. Not just looking good. I want to train in order to enhance my life. To make me better. To give me the energy to do whatever is important to me. To make other activities easy and enjoyable.
Life isn’t just about lifting weights. I actually like to do things besides push iron around. I’m active. I enjoy many outdoor activities, and I have many other interests. RT carries over to those things.
Training just for strength or mass is silly to me. I’m not a competitive bodybuilder or powerlifter. I’m not going to forsake my health in order to reach those particular goals. I don’t want to walk around looking like I can’t function in the real world because my body is stiff, nonfunctional and unhealthy.
With RT, I stay healthy and fit, I become leaner, my conditioning is through the roof, my flexibility is greatly enhanced, my strength and muscle mass are also postively affected. It makes me more athletic.
Good enough for you?[/quote]
you just wrote the best thing i have ever read on this site.
best thing.
it should be posted as an article.
stay strong!
your brother and truest friend
marco
[quote]
doogie wrote:
Your need to defend it so passionately is curious.
Nate Dogg wrote:
I’ll defend anything that I am truly passionate about. I think many things about RT are great, and I’ve used it with much success. Coach Davies said that I don’t need to defend him or RT. He’s right. But I’ll defend something I believe in.
My overall goal is health and fitness. Not just gaining mass. Not just being strong. Not just looking good. I want to train in order to enhance my life. To make me better. To give me the energy to do whatever is important to me. To make other activities easy and enjoyable.
Life isn’t just about lifting weights. I actually like to do things besides push iron around. I’m active. I enjoy many outdoor activities, and I have many other interests. RT carries over to those things.
Training just for strength or mass is silly to me. I’m not a competitive bodybuilder or powerlifter. I’m not going to forsake my health in order to reach those particular goals. I don’t want to walk around looking like I can’t function in the real world because my body is stiff, nonfunctional and unhealthy.
With RT, I stay healthy and fit, I become leaner, my conditioning is through the roof, my flexibility is greatly enhanced, my strength and muscle mass are also postively affected. It makes me more athletic.
Good enough for you?[/quote]
I posted a picture from the renegadetraining website, with NO commentary. You responded with a four paragraph diatribe defending Renegade training against accusations that weren’t made–that renegade training was all about stability work.
When I pointed out to you that it was odd the way seeing a picture (taken directly off the renegade website)of a renegade certified trainer standing on a ball would cause you to go off on a rant, you responded with another rant. This time you went off about life not being about lifting weights and not wanting to get too big, as if every other approach to training makes people big, muscle bound morons who can’t function in the real world because their body is stiff, nonfunctional and unhealthy.
It IS curious that you feel a need to respond to a simple picture the way you have.
[quote]doogie wrote:
I posted a picture from the renegadetraining website, with NO commentary. You responded with a four paragraph diatribe defending Renegade training against accusations that weren’t made–that renegade training was all about stability work.[/quote]
By the way, I have never seen that photo. Is it under someone’s profile?
Several others have brought up instability training as being a part of RT (as discussed in the Think Tank thread). You posted a photo that could give someone the idea that RT is all about instability training. I commented on it. The photo is taken out of context for whatever reason you felt the need to post it.
I responded to your question about why I defend it (RT) so much.
Many people are solely focused on strength and mass at the exclusion of their overall health or ability to take part in activities outside the gym. I’ve seen it. You’ve seen it. Many people on this site have seen it. I merely pointed out that my interests far exceed what is done in the gym. My training enhances those other areas.
I’ve had friends who are bodybuilders…watching them try to do something athletic was absolutely hilarious. You’d think that someone with so much muscle (and looks good) wouldn’t have such a problem running, throwing, catching or playing football. It sort of goes against the whole idea that weight training should help you in other areas.
I’m not saying everyone is like that, but there are quite a few that are. Besides, what’s the point of looking good or being strong if you can’t do much with it?
I never said other forms of training will make someone big and unfunctional. But other programs tend to neglect health or certain components of health and fitness at the exclusion of size and strength.
However, I’m sure if you were to pay for a program from CW, CT, EC or many others, they would give you many more recommendations regarding prehab/rehab, stretching, conditioning/cardio/GPP (or whatever else you want to call it) as part of the total package (I would hope). Rather than programs that forget to mention that stuff or forget to tell you how to put it all together so you don’t neglect your health and overall fitness.
[quote]It IS curious that you feel a need to respond to a simple picture the way you have.
[/quote]
It’s curious that you posted such a picture and expected a different response.
Like I said before, have you ever used RT? Have you purchased any programs, books or other products from John or RT? Have you ever spoken to him through email or on the phone? What’s your real beef with him and RT? Are you an unsatisfied customer? Did someone you know have a bad experience, so now you have a bad taste in your mouth?
I just find it ironic that you are so outspoken against something that you may not have any real experience with.
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
Like I said before, have you ever used RT? Have you purchased any programs, books or other products from John or RT? Have you ever spoken to him through email or on the phone? What’s your real beef with him and RT? Are you an unsatisfied customer? Did someone you know have a bad experience, so now you have a bad taste in your mouth?
I just find it ironic that you are so outspoken against something that you may not have any real experience with. [/quote]
The photo is under CERTIFIED TRAINERS, just scroll down.
He’s a charlatan. That’s my issue.
I do have the football book. It isn’t really a program as much as a bunch of exercises and drills.
I also have seen a couple of programs that people sent me when the first Davies discussion occurred. One is a boxing program, the other was just a generic bodybuilding type program with a lot of gpp. I’m not sure if it had a name or not.
[quote]doogie wrote:
The photo is under CERTIFIED TRAINERS, just scroll down.[/quote]
Okay.
Because he sells stuff?
You’re correct. Unfortunately, no program is included. There is, however, a 6-week program in the Xtreme Sports book. The good thing about the RT for Football book is that you at least get pics, descriptions and other tidbits about some of the exercises that many of the RT programs utilize. But it doesn’t show you how to put it all together.
[quote]I also have seen a couple of programs that people sent me when the first Davies discussion occurred. One is a boxing program, the other was just a generic bodybuilding type program with a lot of gpp. I’m not sure if it had a name or not.
[/quote]
And?
[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
I always find it highly suspicious when someone goes out of their way to tell you how honest and trustworthy they are.
What would keep someone who is not honest or trustworthy from saying the same things?
[/quote]
Some supplement companies seem to do the same thing. I’ve seen other sites do that.
If nothing else…those pictures were pretty damn funny.
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
doogie wrote:
The photo is under CERTIFIED TRAINERS, just scroll down.
Okay.
[/quote]
At least admit the photo is funny.
“A person who makes elaborate, fraudulent, and often voluble claims to skill or knowledge; a quack or fraud.”
[quote]
You’re correct. Unfortunately, no program is included. There is, however, a 6-week program in the Xtreme Sports book. The good thing about the RT for Football book is that you at least get pics, descriptions and other tidbits about some of the exercises that many of the RT programs utilize. But it doesn’t show you how to put it all together.[/quote]
I did expect at least one program from the book, but I am glad I bought it. There is a lot of great stuff in there.
[quote]
I also have seen a couple of programs that people sent me when the first Davies discussion occurred. One is a boxing program, the other was just a generic bodybuilding type program with a lot of gpp. I’m not sure if it had a name or not.
And?[/quote]
And what? You asked if I had ever seen or purchased a real program. I answered.