We Want John Davies

Off Topic
61

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
And just so everyone knows, I’m honest and trustworthy in everything I say and do. For some, I am brutally honest. I doubt you can find me ever telling a lie or being dishonest about anything I’ve ever posted or said (unless I was joking about something).

Have some of my opinions and beliefs changed over time? Of course. And if I’ve posted something a few years ago that I now think differently about, it’s probably because of that. But if someone were to question me, I would give an honest answer no matter what.

I’m not being paid or compensated in any way to talk well about John Davies, Renegade Training or anything else I’ve ever bought or used (various books, supplements, DVD’s, etc.).

For those that actually know me or have met me in person, they can account for that. I don’t hold back (although the mods may ask me to edit something I’ve said or not allow some things to go through), and I will give my opinion and beliefs on anything. Whether it’s good or bad, I will give my honest opinion/answer. There are things I like and dislike about RT. There are things I like and dislike about T-Nation. There are things I like and dislike about the many things I have bought and used whether it’s related to training and nutrition, cars, clothes, or other products and services.

No matter what, I’m always honest and trustworthy. FYI - Just in case someone wanted to question me.[/quote]

I always find it highly suspicious when someone goes out of their way to tell you how honest and trustworthy they are.

What would keep someone who is not honest or trustworthy from saying the same things?

62

You guys are overreacting wayy too much. I think we all agree that both EC and JD are fantastic coaches who have much to offer. The think-tank debate was about ONE little training method, but some of you are turning it into a total war. As Shugart would say: Let it go.

63

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
I always find it highly suspicious when someone goes out of their way to tell you how honest and trustworthy they are.

What would keep someone how is not honest or trustworthy from saying the same things?
[/quote]

Damn. You got me.

Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

64

[quote]Haban wrote:
You guys are overreacting wayy too much. I think we all agree that both EC and JD are fantastic coaches who have much to offer. The think-tank debate was about ONE little training method, but some of you are turning it into a total war. As Shugart would say: Let it go.

[/quote]

Agreed.

I don’t care what their opinion is on instability training. I’ll use it if I feel like I need it.

My posts have nothing to do with that argument that took place in the past, but for the personal attacks on RT and John Davies by people who have never used it or only go by certain research studies. Armchair experts and Keyboard Warriors (Thanks Balbos!) should keep their mouths shut unless they’ve actually used it!

Everyone has something to offer. I like EC (and have met him personally) and many others! I learn something from all of them. So can you (T-Nation members).

65

From where I’m sitting, it looks like Davies went out of his way to not answer a question, and Cressey called him out on it. Pretty simple…

66

Gentlemen,

As Coach Davies mentioned, that thread was somewhat of a setup. What many of you aren’t taking into account is how John and Eric’s relationship has developed. I think that Eric and John have disagreed in a lot of areas and Eric took the opportunity to grind his axe, knowing that John wasn’t going to waste a lot of his time on him. Coach Davies has far more important things going on that require his valuable time.

With that said, just keep in mind that there’s more to the story than what we see. Coach John Davies has changed my life with his writings, programs, and personal phone conversations. He flipped the switch and turned on a light bulb for me to see the naked truth to what ‘this’ is all about.

John is a humble man that couldn’t give a shit about glorifying himself with testimonials. He’d rather see you relish in the results of your own accomplishments.

To compare Cressey with Davies is absurd. Just think about the two individuals for a minute. How much experience does Cressey have in the field vs. Davies? Davies has written over 600 articles for fitness related publications, and they continue to ask for more. I haven’t seen the need to request anything more from Cressey in the training area. There are only three or four Coaches that have contributed to this site that I have a lot of respect for. In order; John Davies, Ian King, Charles Staley, and Christian Thibaudeau. Nobody else has taught me as much about training as these guys have.

Finally, I’m not defending Coach Davies, I’m just responding to confirm my support and my serious disappointment that Coach Davies doesn’t contribute to this site anymore. It is my mission, for the good of T-Nation, to bring what has been taught by these great men to the forefront when questions are asked.

I am also very disappointed that we don’t have Ian King contributing anything anymore, whether it be for personal or business reason. He is missed. This site will never be the same until we start seeing more contributions from these experienced professionals.

In health,

Jack

67

There has been a lot of mention about testimonials relative to Coach Davis abilities. So I remembered TC writing an article a while back on Davis.

The thread/article was called the trial of John Davies or something like that. In it he mentions how Davis helped rehab his niece after an ACL injury getting her on the basketball court in a lot less time then her doctors thought possible. Also he stated that he felt that even approaching 50 he felt if Davis added a some weight he could play college football.

That to me considering the respect I have for TC in general as an honest writer tells me a lot about Davis, not to mention the other things he mentioned in the article.

And in regards to “cockiness” and self promotion I feel all of the strength coaches and trainers that write her are like that to one degree or another. In my opinion they have to be who would go to train with a coach that did not sound confident in his or her abilities I sure in the hell would not.

Jeep

68

I’ve been following this thread since the start and I finally feel like I should throw in my two cents.

I respect Davies as a coaching figure, in fact I have always been impressed with his mentality that he brings to his athletes and his coaching style.

On the flip side, I have had the pleasure to call Eric my coach for 8 months now. I am very much a science / new era type person. I want to be doing something different than what my opponents are doing. That is how I get an edge. I realized this is how it would be from my first few exchanges with Eric when I approached him about coaching.

Eric is a young guy, just out of his Master’s Degree. Is there a risk with a younger “less-experienced” coach… yes. There is a risk with anything. If you want to try to set yourself out from the rest of your competitors you’ve got to do something different. Many times you will fail doing this and many times you will hit a gold mine and you’re making progress.

Davies has a lot of experience and I cannot discredit him for that, but you cannot immediately discredit Eric because of where he hasn’t been YET. All you can do is look at trends and for someone who has barely reached his mid-twenties… I think the trend will have Eric in a substantial place in a few years. Just the fact that he was able to carry on the debate is respectable enough.

Coaches generally hit their prime in their 30s and 40s. Someone who is already making prime progress in his 20s is someone you want to put a note by. He’s just getting started.

69

I really don’t like this whole thing.

I like and admire both of them, and have learned very, very useful things from both of them. Coach Davies, if we don’t see you again, good luck man. Thanks.

70

[quote]TriGWU wrote:
Eric is a young guy, just out of his Master’s Degree…[/quote]

That’s my dog!

(Like my beanie?)

71

1.wheel of conditioning invented and developed by coach davis is work of the GENIUS.
2.renegade philosophy of training and competing is purest form of the essence of all sports-to be the best you can be and win
3.John Davies is stand-up man and role model for all want-to-be t-man

coach davies is IMO the best sport expert and coach!
coach davies,i reread your old articles whenever i get stuck in my training.i have ambition to become personal trainer and develop athletes using your ideas.
thank a lot!!!

72

[quote]TriGWU wrote:
If you want to try to set yourself out from the rest of your competitors you’ve got to do something different. Many times you will fail doing this and many times you will hit a gold mine and you’re making progress.[/quote]

Interesting. If what you are saying is true, and I can’t say that I know a lot about Eric, it seems that both Coaches stand out as “doing something different”. Coach Davies style is very different and controversial when compared to the norm. It’s what sets him apart from the rest. Some of us get it, and obviously, some don’t. What you’ve said here, lends me to believe that there may be some similarities between the two coaches and we my have an Old Bull/Young Bull scenario.

With that said, I’ll be sure to keep an eye on Cressey’s progress in the coming years and see how his philosphies develop and change over time. However, for the time being, I will stick to the Old Bull and his philosophies. I’ve had a few incredible conversations; whereas, I listened mostly, with Coach Davies. I can’t begin to explain the impact this man’s philosophies have had in my every day life.

In health,

Jack

73

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
TriGWU wrote:
Eric is a young guy, just out of his Master’s Degree…

That’s my dog!

(Like my beanie?)[/quote]

Sweet beanie! Gay picture! (joking)(not that there’s anything wrong with that)

74

Amazing that this bullshit was brought up all over again, and all because of BALBOS…

75

Forgot to mention…

Cressey is the only one of the two I have ever had personal dealings with, so he’s the only one I’ll give an actual opinion on. Guy is stand-up every time I’ve ever dealt with him. No matter how much shit that guy has going on, he has always taken the time to get back to me, and I’ve heard the same from other people. He has also never asked me for one cent for anything he’s ever provided me, and that’s a lot.

Davies may be a great guy as well. He certainly has a lot of backers, so the guy can’t be all bad. He has seemed cordial in pretty much every post I’ve seen him make since the debate.

That thread was so long ago. How about we just leave everything on the field (where it was until someone brought it up again) and move on? I know EC and JD have.

76

I hope the future of performance training has alot more people like Eric Cressey in it. He is not a self promoting blow hard. The world of strength training is filled with all of these coaches that talk about what results they create for teams and athletes.

The bottom line is unless they impregnated the mothers of these athletes they had very little to do with thier success. We continue to fail to understand that there are 2 absolutes: genetics and scientific evidence!

77

I decided once and for all quite some time ago to stay away from internet squabbles, as there is nothing to be gained. I’d rather spend the time calling my grandparents, watching the Red Sox, writing articles, or helping someone fix a bum shoulder. That has been my stance on several threads like this, and up until this morning, this thread as well.

However, sometimes people jump to conclusions without all the information; it’s just a way of the world. I don’t fault anyone for their assumptions; we all make assumptions on a daily basis without having all the information available that we’d need to be 100% confident in how we act. I say this not to lecture you, but simply to better frame the discussion at hand.

With that said, you all need to know that this industry is like no other. Things go on behind the scenes that you wouldn’t believe - and I’m sure that there’s even more stuff about which I don’t have the slightest clue. I do, however, know a lot.

When you find a genuinely good guy in this business, you should hold onto him for all you’re worth, as these guys are few and far between. I’m fortunate to know several of them - and John Davies happened to call one of them out on this thread without explicitly mentioning a name.

Had it not been for him bringing Mike into the fold, I wouldn’t have touched this thread with a ten-foot pole. However, Mike is one of my closest friends and one of the most genuinely good people I’ve ever met. He bends over backward for people every day, and he’d give you the shirt off his back at a moment’s notice. I’d do the same for him; I consider myself very fortunate to be able to interact with him on a daily basis. He’s going to be a phenomenal resource for this industry for years to come.

My friendship with Mike has nothing to do with the thread in question, John - especially since you and I both know very well who was the brains behind the operation you referenced. I’ll leave it at that.

More to come…

78

I’ll begin by saying that I don’t regret the debate in question at all. It provided a much-needed boost to a forum innovation (The Think Tank) that wasn’t doing as well as expected. As contributors, it was our job to provide information and entertainment.

That said, admittedly, I am a young guy (23 at the time, now almost 25) and I didn’t want people to get the wrong impression of me. I’m not here to alienate readers or colleagues. I come from a middle-class family in a small town in Maine; I have no reason to be arrogant. We treat people like we want to be treated. With that in mind, I emailed the following to John Davies on Tuesday, March 1, 2005. I should note that I have formatted these emails so that they read easily; if you have any question as to their authenticity, I will gladly forward them directly to you.

[quote]Subject: Burying the Hatchet

Coach,

I figured that now was as good a time as any to drop you a line to clear the air between us and set the record straight on where we stand. I think it goes without saying that both of us would have handled the Leg Roundtable “debate” differently if we were confronted with the same situation again, so I’m all for letting bygones be bygones.

With that said, above all, I want to make it very clear that my intent was
not to discredit you as a person in the least; we just differ in certain aspects of our methodologies. I’ve never interacted with you personally, so I’m not in a position to comment on your character in the light that is at
the forefront now. It goes without saying that if the opportunity should
ever arise, I’d sure we’d have a blast training together or just talking shop over a steak. Over the years, you’ve brought some good ideas to the table, and I’ve certainly derived some benefit from your writings. For that, I’m appreciative, and I hope that you’ve been able to take something away from what I’ve contributed as well.

As for all the other stuff you’re facing, it’s not my business, nor do I
intend to make it my business. Rest assured that I have deflected everything along these lines that has been thrown into my lap since our “debate;” I don’t want any part of it. I’d much rather
discuss ideas than speculate about character. It isn’t productive for either of us, and it reflects negatively on all the T-Nation writers.

Take care,

EC[/quote]

FYI, the “everything along these lines” refers to the dozens of emails I received from people who took a lot of interest in the debate. One by one, I essentially told them “Thank you for your email. I hope the discussion was of benefit to you.”

There was no discussion of character, as that was never the issue at hand. Unstable surface training was and is a great area of interest for me; I’ve now devoted three years of research to it, and my master’s thesis on the topic will be published in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research within the next few publications.

John Davies’ response was as follows:

[quote]
Eric

First of all - its “John” and thank you for contacting me. This says a lot of you and I hope we can not only be friends but professional associates. I mentor many top coaches including some top people you likely know and I would be pleased to offer my insights to you as a friend.

Dont worry about the forum posts - its an impossible task to write on bb forums where the age group is limited and there
reading of work is highly limited. Honestly, I’ve published over 4 books, 500+ articles, mentored military leaders, countless teams and I think the tmag readership has read less than a dozen of my pieces and have based there thoughts of me on anothers comments. I still get a chuckle though of people
thinking of me doing heavy lifts on balance boards - lol…it really is funny but something we can talk of.

The past is the past and we can move on. If you want to talk on the phone, just send me a number.

Thanks again,

In faith,

john [/quote]

The following morning, John called me on my cell phone, and we chatted for 45 minutes about a variety of things. I was under the assumption that the hatchet had, indeed, been buried.

In fact, last summer (I believe it was around August), I actually emailed John to commend him on a portion of an article he had written. Now that I look back, I believe it was actually the “Searching for John Davies” article Chris Shugart wrote.

We exchanged pleasantries once again, and I assumed everything was on good terms. He told me to contact him if there was ever anything he could do, and also devoting a paragraph or two to reflect on how unfortunate it is that the “log rolling” in this industry had become really bad.

I have not spoken to him since; again, I assumed that things were cool.

79

About six weeks ago, an old friend emailed me for the first time in probably a year. Our email exchange led to a phone conversation that lasted a good 60 minutes. In that message, he related to me that he’d broken away from Davies’ coaching group for reasons that I will not go into, as a professional courtesy to this individual.

As I discovered last night, this individual had never even read that “debate” on the Think Tank from last spring. He learned of this thread through a friend, and sent me the following email:

Him: “Just this once I’ll say it…pwned. Almost makes me want to get back to the forums and post. Then again, I’m a real athlete and have sex now…”

Me: “Oh, that original debate took place in early Spring, 2005. They’re just rehashing it.”

Him: “Yeah, I know it was a rehash, though I’d never read it. John did mention it at one of the seminars though. The odd thing is that he does have a lot of knowledge pertaining to his argument based in research studies (plenty of Siff and Vorshensky [sp] ). Being that he is so damn weird on multiple levels, he chose instead to give you the shovel and indo board himself deeping into forum oblivion.”

Me: “I got mentioned at Davies seminar? Was there a burning effigy of me? Or, even a little voodoo doll?”

Him: “No, mostly accusations that you were a 23 year old lab geek without real world experience. Again, There’s really no point in getting back into this other than to cause malcontent. Suffice to say that you both laid out your arguments, and while yours was a well-paved highway road sponsored by local businesses Mr. D chose to pour hot gravel onto quicksand and call it a runway.”

Now, would you out of your way to say this about a "friend? A colleague? Anyone - much less in a public forum? There is a big difference between exchanging pleasantries and calling someone out in public to one’s readership and potential consumers.

Don’t tell me about “log rolling” when you’re the one rolling the logs, John. Don’t claim to be the one who’s in the right in this industry. You’re in no place to mentor anyone; you’re everything that’s WRONG with the industry. Emails don’t lie, John; liars do.

80

Now, your next question is probably “Why isn’t John Davies writing for T-Nation anymore? Nobody else knew about these behind-the-scenes dealings until today, right?”

Wrong.

You see, pathological lying is, by definition, not a one time thing. You see, this is something that has gone on more than you can imagine.

Think back to the “Searching for John Davies” article from last August. How much interest do you think that generated in John Davies? How many products do you think he sold? How many thousands of dollars do you think he took home from thousands of unsuspecting loyal customers of Biotest and T-Nation?

You ask, “Unsuspecting?” Go to alexa.com and download a toolbar that will allow you to determine the popularity of every site you visit on the internet. Yahoo is #1. Google is #2. MSN is #3, and so on.

T-Nation is 7,386. For those of you not familiar with these rankings, that’s REALLY damn good. It explains why so many writers want to break in here, and it goes to show you how contributing to T-Nation can take your career to a whole new level. It’s done it for Charles Poliquin, John Berardi, Chad Waterbury, Charles Staley, Christian Thibaudeau, Mike Robertson, Alwyn Cosgrove, and dozens of others. It’s helped me immeasurably, and for that I will unconditionally loyal to TC and Tim.

The fact that they’re tremendously good to their contributors only makes me all the more passionate about being here as long as they’ll put up with me.

You might not like some of the supplements, and you might not like TC’s weekly column. Some articles might not excite you, and you make get frustrated with some aspect of tech support.

All that withstanding, I guarantee that each and every one of you has derived tremendous benefit from reading the free articles that are provided here. Moreover, I’m sure you’ve taken a liking to certain writers and possibly even purchased their products. I would hope that you have a feeling of loyalty to T-Nation and Biotest for these reasons.

I can guarantee you that the affiliation with T-Nation has done more for John Davies, too, than you can possibly imagine. How do you think he would handle such a situation? Would he be thankful? It would seem so.

However, based on an email I received about three hours ago from none other than TC himself, John was anything but thankful when speaking with a few people “in the know” following that seminar that was intended to PROMOTE him.

In fact, he has some pretty terrible things to say about TC, those close to him, Biotest, T-Nation, and pretty much everyone associated with them. The log rolling was at full throttle.

How do you think he handled the situation when what went around came around? Did he man up and apologize? Well, knowing TC’s strong character, had he done so, you’d still be seeing John Davies around these parts and reading his articles pretty frequently.

I can understand his perspective, though; it’s much easier to roll logs when you’ve disappeared.

Does a man in whom no one can possibly have faith honestly deserve to sign off all his correspondences with “In Faith?” Does he even understand what faith is? With all this talk of loyalty, honor, trust, and integrity, you’d think that this man would be the patron saint of the indo board. In reality, hes might know the definitions of these terms, but he’ll never understand the strength of character it takes to practice what you preach.

You’re nothing more than the paragon of hypocrisy, John. Do not email me. Do not call me.

Feel free, however, to speak of me all you want at your seminars. Mike Boyle is one of the best performance enhancement coaches in the world, and he does NO self-promotion. His athletes promote him without him asking because he delivers results (yes, I am implying something here, but it’s not my main point).

Mike once told me that when you know that you have strong critics, you’ve made it big. If you’re ripping on me at your seminars, I’m delighted. And, frankly, rip away; if someone could ever in good “faith” attend one of your seminars after learning about your true character, I don’t want to interact with them or sell them my products anyway.