I really wanna get into fighting, most likely muay thai or even just boxing, but i dont have time till december so im bulking, and doing intense cardio 2 days a week, any advice??
i have a bag, so i thought maybe for my cardio sessions i’d just work the bag, making my left arm and leg slightly more coordinated, (really awkward), and doing jump rope… ideas??
Currently doing startin strength routine for the gym and drinkin a gallon of milk a day, hopefully be 190pounds by december… 
Why do you want to get into fighting and why muay thai and or boxing.
If you’re thinking MMA, then might as well do some wrestling/bjj.
Congrats on your decision to pick up martial arts.
If you try to learn technique by yourself, you might do it wrong and have to relearn everything.
Also, it’s suboptimal to bulk till you’ll actually start to learn boxing/muay thai.
Bulking is a very controversial topic, but one thing is certain. Only a pro can use it efficiently as a short term tool. That’s not how bodybuilding and strenght training works. Both are essentially ways to manipulate your body chemistry, which is reluctant to change anything at all.
There should always a long term strategy behind it and three months are way too short for real bulking.
Initially, it’s a LOT of stress for a body to adopt to so much food, coupled with heavy weight. If you start to train fighting sports dilligently in december, you’ll encounter new forms of stress which are more endurance based. The body will dich a lot of the newfound bodymass rather quick. And the reasoning along the lines of “if I’m 80Kgs now and lose 10KGs, why not bulk to 90KGs and stay @80?” doesn’t really work that way.
Probably better to go for a good mixture of strength training and cardio, with only a slight caloric plus. The earlier you can stay relaxed and focused for about two hours, the easier it will be to learn and apply technique.
sample plan, if you’re a beginner this won’t be as easy as it looks:
m: strength training, low rep like 5x5, medium volume
t: easy but extended cardio
w: circuit training with no or very little rest between sets
t: sprint trainng like 400 meter dashes
f: strength training, focus on doubles, low volume + assistant work to balance weaknesses out
s: interval cardio
s: rest
I’m willing to bet he’s “bulking” because he is just skinny and wants to be a bit bigger.
that’s understandable.
skinny kids wanting to be a bit bigger and stronger is great; nothing wrong with that man!
once you get your starting strength done and have some good size/muscle; i like that plan laid out above
“m: strength training, low rep like 5x5, medium volume
t: easy but extended cardio
w: circuit training with no or very little rest between sets
t: sprint trainng like 400 meter dashes
f: strength training, focus on doubles, low volume + assistant work to balance weaknesses out
s: interval cardio
s: rest”
that’s pretty good if you can get through all that. you’ll still have to eat a ton though; for all that work.
Couple of great posts here… I personally would advise you to not do too much shit on your own. But familiarize yourself with as many combat sports as possible, watch competitions, fights all the way back from UFC 1, Shooto to Rings, Pride, to Current UFC’s and DREAM. Watch Judo, watch bjj, watch abu dhabi’s, watch everything.
Not to come off as a dick but how far do you want to go as a fighter. You better be fucking clear before you even walk in the gym. If you’re fairly uncoordinated now, change that shit asap… juggling, jumping rope, and hackey sack are severely underrated for that. 99% of successful fighters I’ve ever met always had above average coordination from a young age, and some are way beyond ‘normal’ or even ‘above average’. Most were just above average, but some guys are nearly fucking jedi’s.
There’s nothing you can’t do with some hard work but if you want to be top tier and you’re not naturally coordinated then you need to make it a huge priority.
Bulking?
In my personal opinion… Don’t. Even if you’re a naturally skinny guy. just start getting more protein in your diet 1-2gm per lb of bodyweight whatever you feel more comfortable digesting. And lift very heavy. In fighting relative strength is far far more important than being a big buff dude. You’re probably at a ‘natural’ weight for yourself now, but what you need to change is your body composition. More muscle, less fat.
But you don’t necessarily want to focus on scale weight. Goals are relatively similar but I want your perspective right. Scale weight doesn’t matter, it’s what happens in the mirror and in your performance.
“Cardio” I would focus on having a level of general fitness. You should be able to rep out non stop 100 pushups, 100 squats fairly easily. That is all you “need” at the moment till you start actually training combat techniques and kind of learn to specialize what you need for yourself. Until that point i would focus on getting a LOT stronger and changing my body comp.
When you start training MMA keep in mind why you’re doing certain things… the biggest athletic factor in MMA is power endurance. So make that a priority in your training…
It doesn’t matter who can hit hard once (and then gas) it’s who can hit hardest at the end of each round. When he’s tired and drops his hands if you can’t capitalize with a technically beautiful, and brutally powerful counter then you need to re-evaluate things.
schwarz outline is pretty good but you need to SLOWLY and GRADUALLY work into shit like that.
When you start training mma start ONLY with your MMA classes, get accustomed to those then add in weights and shit ONE day at a time. till you get adjusted to it.
Don’t just hop on a westside circa-maximal phase with 2 strongman days and extra kettlebell workouts while you bust out crossfit’s “Fran” before bed.
No.
MMA: 5-6 days a week
adjust (4-6wks if you’re honest)
Running/Extra energy work: 1-3 days/wk
adjustment period
weights: 1-2x per week
adjustment period
shuffle things around now so you can do 3-4days of lifting and just 1 of running, or however you want (vice versa is good).
Final bit of advice… if you’re not going to do shit else. Even if you ignore everything else I say.
Work on your mobility. Save yourself the time from injury, the hassle of rehab, or the time it takes LATER to realize you need to be more flexible. Get in a yoga class or something if possible. Open up your hips, be able to sit full lotus, work on doing the splits and shit… get full mobility in your shoulders, activate your scapula, activate your glutes, all that goodness.
When you start training you’ll be a blank slate but you’ll have all the tools at your coaches disposable.
It’s one thing to get the best painter in the world, a blank canvas, and say PAINT!
it’s another to give the best painter in the world, a blank canvas, and access to every type of paint, paintbrush, pencils, erasers, and whatever else he needs.
Give your coach the tools and if he’s a good guy he’ll make a fighter out of you.
[quote]blazindave wrote:
Why do you want to get into fighting and why muay thai and or boxing.
If you’re thinking MMA, then might as well do some wrestling/bjj.[/quote]
???..you have to start somewhere…and ANY of the above mentioned will suffice.
Personally I think its better to start out with building base for stand-up first…after all you don’t start a fight on the ground…gets you better footwork…and prepares you mentally for fighting. Just my opinion.
But as long as you progress and don’t over emphasize one area too much over a long period,it really doesn’t matter what you start training because conditioning is king.
I’m sure Xen can’t reiterate my entire post…and make three pages out of it…ohh wait you done that already. I think we need stickies…or whatever we have on T-Nation.
im 6’1" 167 pounds atm, not that small compared to your average joe, and have been wanting to fight for ages, plus be big, like most people.
my goals are:
want to be able to know i can defend myself, my family in a situation, i want to be able to control the situation etc, not necessarily be champion of the world
we have the number one muay thai gym in perth, australia, also another reason
looks like so much fun
also
if i eat a caloric surplus, sleep well etc while starting training in december and train:
m,w,f - muay thai, boxing etc
t,t,s - gym
i dont see why i cant bulk and fight while learning the martial arts…
the gym for strength and muscle, the fighting bein additional cardio and power???
=why does that not seem doable??
Things aren’t so easy.
A pal of mine I once met in the gym told me he’s “pumping some iron to build the muscle first and then riding the bike afterwards for 60 minutes to shed the fat”…
…which works great in theory, but isn’t practical.
Similarly gaining size and strength through weights and technique and conditioning for MA at the same time is overkill.
You should stick to one. Sure, sometimes a genetic beast comes along who just grows in two years from an unimposing youngster to a model athlete. But that is rare.
In fact, the reality is much harsher then most ads and coaches (including the great TNation trainers) make you believe. Much is determined by your genetics and your chores/jobs.
I’m only honest in telling you that in the next 18 months, you shouldn’t expect a huge body transformation (save for getting leaner and aquiring the “tools of the trade”, e.g. in boxing: serratus, delts).
Especially if you try to tame two stallions at the same time.
The only three to six month muscle transformations I saw which were impressive were from dudes who juiced, but these guys were in no way athletic or better fighter material because of their bulk. Rather the opposite.
Your body grows in slow intervalls which can rarely be forced. Athletic feats(like a solid punch) and bulking milestones (like +25 lbs) must be held and maintained for a specific time for a body to accept them as the new status quo.
Going up to 190lbs and then starting to fight is not a effective way to tell the body to rewire it’s nerves and body composition.
Both martial arts and bodybuilding/strength sports are ways of living; in german you sometimes hear “Geduldssport” (sport of patience). Stick to it and you’ll improve gradually.
Second:
“Getting more confident” is also a bit off. It’s probably one of the bigger myths- Martial arts has in no way better and more confident people then any other craft, hobby or profession. You get smarter and more confident by learning and achieving things, and gaining experience in life.
Sure, through boxing you’ll get more confident in a fistfight. The thing is, most people get ther in the first place out of insecurity.
Trust me, I’ve met A LOT of totally insecure martial artists, some of them quite the beasts in the ring.
Martial arts can even make you initially fear a possible hassle more. You know how ugly things can turn out, you’ve experienced KOs and vomit inducing liver shots. You just don’t see the point in hurting people or getting hurt.
Perhaps you even try to calm people down and get to be called a pussy by your drunken friends, who have no clue.
The most confident [25 to 35 year old] people I met were rather not martial artists but guys who had lots of money and laid lots o’girls or achieved some substantial things like running a bar or writing a book, supporting a happy family etc.
edited for clarity
well, if you wana get into fighting, go ahead and join the gym. some people really can’t stand getting hit, though. i know some guys with wicked wrestling/BJJ that can dominate most people, but just can’t handle a pop in the nose, much less a power shot.
i firmly belive some people are just “wired” differently, and that’s why not all people can fight all that well.
however, i think we all agree with martial arts in general are excellent conditioning, and a hell of a fun hobby. if that’s all you want from it, then i think you’ll be approching it with the right mindset.
i see some kids that come in the gym and wanna be the best MMA fighter NOW, and can’t wait to learn footowrk, body position, and the little things that really make a good competitor.
as far as bulking while fighting…well, it’s just really damn hard. fighting is so demandig from a metabolic standpoint, and if you’re constanly gaining size and muscle, it will constanly be affecting your technique. this means you’re never really gonna get as good as somebody who doesn’t worry about both.
again, i say go for it, and just amke sure you realize the challeneg of doing too much at one time.
Cyco
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
“Getting more confident” is also a bit off. It’s probably one of the bigger myths- Martial arts has in no way better and more confident people then any other craft, hobby or profession. You get smarter and more confident by learning and achieving things,and gaining experience in life.
Sure, through boxing you’ll get more confident in a fistfight. The thing is, most people get ther in the first place out of insecurity.
Trust me, I’ve met A LOT of totally insecure martial artists, some of them quite the beasts in the ring.
Martial arts can even make you initially fear a possible hassle more. You know how ugly things can turn out, you’ve experienced KOs and vomit inducing liver shots. You just don’t see the point in hurting people or getting hurt. So you try to calm people down and your friends freak out and call you a pussy.
The most confident (25 to 35 year old)people I met were rather not martial artists but guys who had lots of money and laid lots o’girls or achieved some substantial things like running a bar or writing a book supporting a happy family.
[/quote]
well said.
things i hadnt thought of, reallly, thanks heaps guys, t-nations awesome for this shit
ill see how i go and let ya know, i also figure being bigger, will at least give me a relative preventative measure when it comes to fights (people dont tend to fight bigger people) so thats a plus
but i do want to fight, get some of this anger out so ill see how i go,
thanks again
if you want to get into boxing do it for the right reasons.
i also thought that boxing will magically transform my self confidence, but it didn’t, because i had problems in other parts of my life that i had to solve.
i found out that (at least for me) confidence is not a thing that applies to all aspects of life (is not universal… if you’re a good athlete it doesn’t mean you will have confidence in school), but rather you get it by being good in areas which interest you and by solving your problems and confronting them in each and every problematic area of your life.
i got into boxing more for the sake of being like a tough guy, … bullshit like this, now i’m realizing it.
it’s really important that you do what you love to do. i wasn’t sure about boxing and training eventually gets harder, you sparr, if you’re serious you have to devote a lot of time to develop your endurance… and i think that when it gets harder you continue if you really love that thing and enjoy doing it, or if you really want to, let’s say win a championship.
for me it was neither… i love lifting heavy weights and that’s what i’ve returned to, cause i don’t want to spend my time doing something what i don’t really enjoy doing.
so try boxing/muay thai/mma… whatever and do it for your enjoyment rather than for something else.
What Xen said. Exactly.
Many great posts here.
To the OP- if you think you’d enjoy MT, give it a shot. It’ll only help you.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
“Getting more confident” is also a bit off. It’s probably one of the bigger myths- Martial arts has in no way better and more confident people then any other craft, hobby or profession. You get smarter and more confident by learning and achieving things, and gaining experience in life.
Sure, through boxing you’ll get more confident in a fistfight. The thing is, most people get ther in the first place out of insecurity.
Trust me, I’ve met A LOT of totally insecure martial artists, some of them quite the beasts in the ring.
Martial arts can even make you initially fear a possible hassle more. You know how ugly things can turn out, you’ve experienced KOs and vomit inducing liver shots. You just don’t see the point in hurting people or getting hurt.
Perhaps you even try to calm people down and get to be called a pussy by your drunken friends, who have no clue.
The most confident [25 to 35 year old] people I met were rather not martial artists but guys who had lots of money and laid lots o’girls or achieved some substantial things like running a bar or writing a book, supporting a happy family etc.
[/quote]
There’s a lot of facets to this one, and I don’t quite agree.
To get good at any combat sport, it takes a tremendous amount of time, dedication, and work. This can, and will, translate into the rest of your life. It doesn’t matter whether you get your black belt in karate, BJJ, or win a couple amateur fights in boxing or MMA. It took a lot of work to get there, and it’s something that people can always be proud of.
And it is a confidence booster when, in the natural course of events, you will here the words spoken, “Don’t fuck with’em, the guy can bang” or “Hey, that dude knows BJJ. He’ll fuck you up.”
Now of course, to get into fighting, or even weightlifting or bodybuilding, I’d bet there’s a certain amount of insecurity naturally. We weren’t born strong enough or tough enough or tall enough or skinny enough or rich enough, so we have to do something to compensate for it. Boxers are famous for having some of the most fragile egos and minds around, which is funny because of the undisputed toughness of what they do.
However, for the average guy, martial arts can influence you to calm down a bit, to be a little more secure in your confidence to protect yourself. For me, at least, this is very important. Sure, I’m 3 or 4 inches shorter than most guys, but I know that if I hit you three times, you’ll be down before the hook even lands. To me, that levels the playing field on a primal basis, and raises my confidence.
I’ve been in a good amount of fights over my life. I know what it is to get punched in the face, kicked in the balls, have my tooth busted, get hit with a weapon, break my hand, catch a knee to the jaw (that “clicking” bullshit just went away), and dislocate my shoulder, all because of sparring or fighting. I don’t have the desire to do it on any level other than sport now… it’s like the want to fight in a bar has been literally beaten out of me. As I said in another thread, once you know that you’re so gassed that the guy you’re fighting could kill you, and you couldn’t stop him… well, that’s what you realize what fighting is about.
And you know what? That’s what’s going to make sure that I write my book, run my bar, and raise a family… as opposed to getting locked up for assault.
Not to be overly dramatic, but it really has helped me that much.
Confidence is knowing that you are scared as hell, but doing it anyway.
Set a clear goal. I started liking martial arts when I scheduled a fight and realized I had to work my ass off to be prepared. Don’t just go in with a 2 hours/week subscription and expect to be UFC’s next top athlete either. Be real and know that no matter how good you think you’re doing, you’re really not and need to work more.
Good thread… great advice by Kataklysm