im about 6’4", i weigh about 200lbs, standing reach at 8’1 1/2", running vert i can touch 10’4", i am a volleyball player, i do alot of jumping so that is how my vert got better then what it used to be be, but i never did some serious weight lifting to get my vert better, i dont really know much about workouts, or lifting terminology, or types of lifts, but my goal is to be able to touch 11’3"-6"and im now serious about getting it better
any advice?? anything will help!
thanks 
Since a lot of people on this thread seen to be into sports training stuff, I just read an awesome article called How to Become a Strength & Conditioning Coach. It’s something I’m interested in, and this article helped me a ton. Thought others here would like it Site Suspended - This site has stepped out for a bit
[quote]alejandro17 wrote:
im about 6’4", i weigh about 200lbs, standing reach at 8’1 1/2", running vert i can touch 10’4", i am a volleyball player, i do alot of jumping so that is how my vert got better then what it used to be be, but i never did some serious weight lifting to get my vert better, i dont really know much about workouts, or lifting terminology, or types of lifts, but my goal is to be able to touch 11’3"-6"and im now serious about getting it better
any advice?? anything will help!
thanks [/quote]
As been mentioned in this thread, to get a top-level vertical leap you need to:
(1) Be lean
(2) Be strong
(3) Practice jumping a lot
Most volleyball players I know do so much of (3) at practice, they really only need to focus on getting strong as shit. I know it was that way for myself personally. My senior year of high school, my spike touch was 10’10". I could also barely even squat 135 at about 180 pounds. By senior year of college, my spike touch was up to 11’7" and I could squat over 400 at about 210 pounds.
There lots of ways to get there, and I can give you more details on what I did and what I do with the volleyball players I train if you would like.
Also, where do you play? Your location says Cali, are you playing ball in college or still in HS?
Yes please!! if u can can u give me everything u did to get to that, cuz it would be a amazing if i could get close to that, what did u do? where did u play?
im a senior in HS, Arcadia , and i play club for SMBC
and yeah i cant squat that much lol
Yes please!! if u can can u give me everything u did to get to that, cuz it would be a amazing if i could get close to that, what did u do? where did u play?
im a senior in HS, Arcadia , and i play club for SMBC
and yeah i cant squat that much lol
[quote]alejandro17 wrote:
Yes please!! if u can can u give me everything u did to get to that, cuz it would be a amazing if i could get close to that, what did u do? where did u play?
im a senior in HS, Arcadia , and i play club for SMBC
and yeah i cant squat that much lol
[/quote]
Nice dude, SMBC is legit I played against Princeton a bunch of times and I’m pretty sure their setter (Brandon Denham) was an SMBC guy. Don’t a lot of those guys play for Pierce too? I played for Stevens out in Jersey, small school but we were pretty good. Went to D3 Final Four 3 times in my 4 years there and actually had a winning record against D1 schools. I had a pretty good career as an opposite; was 1st-team All-America my senior year. I’m still on the East Coast coaching at a local JO program and doing a lot of private training/camps/clinics/etc.
I was fortunate enough to have a couple very good strength coaches at my school who stressed excellent technique and steady, consistent progressive overload. One strength coach was more of a Westside-influenced powerlifter and the other more geared toward Olympic lifting. The principles stayed the same the whole time though, and what I basically did (and what I have all the athletes I train do) was:
*Two lifting days per week that were total-body, but mostly lower-body focused. Often, I would do an extra “upper body” day just to do some arms or whatever, but mostly just twice a week.
*Almost always start with some sort of explosive exercise. Max vert tests, jump squats, lunge jumps, sled sprints, explosive push press, etc. I did some retarded stuff like 1-rep max box jumps holding weights in my hand (for the record, I’ve done 40" with 40lb dbs in each hand) that I would never have my athletes do, but whatever.
*Always do a heavy squat or deadlift. Heavy meaning 80% of your 1RM or higher. I don’t have my athletes max out nearly as often as I did. My junior year I was obsessed with deadlifting 500 pounds and I maxed out nearly every week trying to get it. I think that held me back a bit. I basically never have kids I train go to a true 1RM. I’d rather work 80-90% and get a little more volume in and be more explosive.
*Always do some sort of heavy posterior chain work. RDLs, good mornings, glute-ham raises, 45-degree back extensions with a bar on my back, pull-throughs, etc. Recently I’ve been doing Bret Contreras-style glute bridges/hip thrusts both double-leg and single-leg and love them.
*Usually some single-leg stuff like Bulgarian split squats or step-ups. I’ve done these as heavy as sets of 4-6, but usually more in the 10 to 20-rep range. I usually laid off these in-season though, as they would get my legs real sore.
*Plenty of pullups and pushups, weighted and unweighted. An ungodly amount of reading/emailing Eric Cressey and figuring out how to strengthen rotators, scap stabilizers, mobility work, etc. I tore up my shoulder sophomore year of high school playing quarterback and I always had a lot of problems with pain in my shoulder. By senior year in college I found out I was playing with a chunk torn out of my labrum and a tear in my rotator cuff, but I think everything else was so strong and stable that I was able to still play through it and I played my whole senior year with that. I highly recommend reading into some of that stuff and I can give you some advice on that as well. I don’t think volleyball players have any business barbell benching, or, once you get past a certain level of basic strength (I would say around being able to push press your bodyweight), no overhead lifting as well.
What are some of your weight room numbers right now?
yeah man we got a pretty good team this year, lol yeah he played for SMBC a couple years back, yes usually people who dont get a scholarship to play at a big school got to pierce college to continue playing and go to like pepperdine or Hawaii after 2 years. thats pretty sick, yeah going to the final four three time that realy good, not alot of people can say that they played at that level lol ok sooo
1.what did u do in between the two lifting days? 2. for the heavy squats, i lifted today and was doing 200lbs, 6 reps/ 6 sets, i think thats a good start?( it was kinda hard for me). 3. what r RDLs? 4. did some split squats too but not too much cuz i already did squats, yeah i can see why they got ur legs sore lol. 5.i really dont have any problems with my should and back beacuse my coach taught to torque my body so my back and shoulder r good. yeah i can see why i dont needa bench, so push ups r good and i need to work on the pull ups, what do u mean by overhead lifting? and did u do anything to get ur arm swing faster? and i can bench close to my own weight so im just gonna start reping that. oh an what should be the range of weight, number of reps and sets to do for most of these?
thanks again for ur help!
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
[quote]alejandro17 wrote:
Yes please!! if u can can u give me everything u did to get to that, cuz it would be a amazing if i could get close to that, what did u do? where did u play?
im a senior in HS, Arcadia , and i play club for SMBC
and yeah i cant squat that much lol
[/quote]
Nice dude, SMBC is legit I played against Princeton a bunch of times and I’m pretty sure their setter (Brandon Denham) was an SMBC guy. Don’t a lot of those guys play for Pierce too? I played for Stevens out in Jersey, small school but we were pretty good. Went to D3 Final Four 3 times in my 4 years there and actually had a winning record against D1 schools. I had a pretty good career as an opposite; was 1st-team All-America my senior year. I’m still on the East Coast coaching at a local JO program and doing a lot of private training/camps/clinics/etc.
I was fortunate enough to have a couple very good strength coaches at my school who stressed excellent technique and steady, consistent progressive overload. One strength coach was more of a Westside-influenced powerlifter and the other more geared toward Olympic lifting. The principles stayed the same the whole time though, and what I basically did (and what I have all the athletes I train do) was:
*Two lifting days per week that were total-body, but mostly lower-body focused. Often, I would do an extra “upper body” day just to do some arms or whatever, but mostly just twice a week.
*Almost always start with some sort of explosive exercise. Max vert tests, jump squats, lunge jumps, sled sprints, explosive push press, etc. I did some retarded stuff like 1-rep max box jumps holding weights in my hand (for the record, I’ve done 40" with 40lb dbs in each hand) that I would never have my athletes do, but whatever.
*Always do a heavy squat or deadlift. Heavy meaning 80% of your 1RM or higher. I don’t have my athletes max out nearly as often as I did. My junior year I was obsessed with deadlifting 500 pounds and I maxed out nearly every week trying to get it. I think that held me back a bit. I basically never have kids I train go to a true 1RM. I’d rather work 80-90% and get a little more volume in and be more explosive.
*Always do some sort of heavy posterior chain work. RDLs, good mornings, glute-ham raises, 45-degree back extensions with a bar on my back, pull-throughs, etc. Recently I’ve been doing Bret Contreras-style glute bridges/hip thrusts both double-leg and single-leg and love them.
*Usually some single-leg stuff like Bulgarian split squats or step-ups. I’ve done these as heavy as sets of 4-6, but usually more in the 10 to 20-rep range. I usually laid off these in-season though, as they would get my legs real sore.
*Plenty of pullups and pushups, weighted and unweighted. An ungodly amount of reading/emailing Eric Cressey and figuring out how to strengthen rotators, scap stabilizers, mobility work, etc. I tore up my shoulder sophomore year of high school playing quarterback and I always had a lot of problems with pain in my shoulder. By senior year in college I found out I was playing with a chunk torn out of my labrum and a tear in my rotator cuff, but I think everything else was so strong and stable that I was able to still play through it and I played my whole senior year with that. I highly recommend reading into some of that stuff and I can give you some advice on that as well. I don’t think volleyball players have any business barbell benching, or, once you get past a certain level of basic strength (I would say around being able to push press your bodyweight), no overhead lifting as well.
What are some of your weight room numbers right now?[/quote]
yeah man we got a pretty good team this year, lol yeah he played for SMBC a couple years back, yes usually people who dont get a scholarship to play at a big school got to pierce college to continue playing and go to like pepperdine or Hawaii after 2 years. thats pretty sick, yeah going to the final four three time that realy good, not alot of people can say that they played at that level lol ok sooo
1.what did u do in between the two lifting days? 2. for the heavy squats, i lifted today and was doing 200lbs, 6 reps/ 6 sets, i think thats a good start?( it was kinda hard for me). 3. what r RDLs? 4. did some split squats too but not too much cuz i already did squats, yeah i can see why they got ur legs sore lol. 5.i really dont have any problems with my should and back beacuse my coach taught to torque my body so my back and shoulder r good. yeah i can see why i dont needa bench, so push ups r good and i need to work on the pull ups, what do u mean by overhead lifting? and did u do anything to get ur arm swing faster? and i can bench close to my own weight so im just gonna start reping that. oh an what should be the range of weight, number of reps and sets to do for most of these?
thanks again for ur help!
For faster armswing, I think you need a base of strength in pushups, pullups and a power overhead move like push press or power jerk. If you can do 5 or so pushups with half your bodyweight on your back, 10+ pullups and press/jerk your bodyweight overhead, you are about as strong as you need to be and then you can really drop the upper body lifting down because at that point it is just about improving technique.
How many chinups can you do, with range of motion comparable to this video:
Are you squats close to the range of motion found here:
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
For faster armswing, I think you need a base of strength in pushups, pullups and a power overhead move like push press or power jerk. If you can do 5 or so pushups with half your bodyweight on your back, 10+ pullups and press/jerk your bodyweight overhead, you are about as strong as you need to be and then you can really drop the upper body lifting down because at that point it is just about improving technique.
How many chinups can you do, with range of motion comparable to this video:
Are you squats close to the range of motion found here:
yeah i can do about 6 chin ups like that then after its a stuggle, and yes i am doing my squat the same as in the video
today i was doing more of sprints and conditioning work
Hello, long time lurker here. After seeing all this volleyball discussion recently, I couldn’t help but post. I pretty much only started lifting seriously 3 years ago when I graduated from college, and I started playing volleyball in recreational leagues about 2 years ago - at first it was just something to do but I got addicted and play anywhere between 6-10 hours a week. While not on your levels, I feel I can hold my own in a BB league now.
Anyways, I’ve been trying to figure out what direction to take my training/diet in the meantime. I’m 6’ 174 lbs right now. My standing vert is somewhere between 27-28 in and for some reason, with an approach it only goes up about an inch (I’d imagine it is way more for most people). If it means anything, I had a goofy approach (I’m right handed, and my last 3 steps were right-left-right) less than a year ago and I had to correct that habit.
I have a 5RM low bar box squat (11.25 in box, squatting w/o shoes) of 245 lbs. I managed to power clean & jerk 215 about two months ago when I was 4 lbs heavier, before I got derailed a bit with flu and injuries.
I was thinking of cutting to 170 or lower to drop under 10% bf and maintain strength to get more vert (according to coolcolj’s formula on kelly baggett’s site, if I drop 6 lb fat I should gain an inch in vert), but after reading some of your comments, it seems you recommend to just put on lean mass & get the squat up?
Thanks in advance.
[quote]lm24 wrote:
Hello, long time lurker here. After seeing all this volleyball discussion recently, I couldn’t help but post. I pretty much only started lifting seriously 3 years ago when I graduated from college, and I started playing volleyball in recreational leagues about 2 years ago - at first it was just something to do but I got addicted and play anywhere between 6-10 hours a week. While not on your levels, I feel I can hold my own in a BB league now.
Anyways, I’ve been trying to figure out what direction to take my training/diet in the meantime. I’m 6’ 174 lbs right now. My standing vert is somewhere between 27-28 in and for some reason, with an approach it only goes up about an inch (I’d imagine it is way more for most people). If it means anything, I had a goofy approach (I’m right handed, and my last 3 steps were right-left-right) less than a year ago and I had to correct that habit.
I have a 5RM low bar box squat (11.25 in box, squatting w/o shoes) of 245 lbs. I managed to power clean & jerk 215 about two months ago when I was 4 lbs heavier, before I got derailed a bit with flu and injuries.
I was thinking of cutting to 170 or lower to drop under 10% bf and maintain strength to get more vert (according to coolcolj’s formula on kelly baggett’s site, if I drop 6 lb fat I should gain an inch in vert), but after reading some of your comments, it seems you recommend to just put on lean mass & get the squat up?
Thanks in advance.[/quote]
I’d just read the ultimate split on Bagget’s website it has a formula for the VJ.
alejandro,
If you were one of the players I train, here’s how I would set up your training session:
(A) Warmup: I’m going to skip discussing this because there’s a shit-ton of stuff out there on it, and it’s way too hard to explain via text. If want to know more, Youtube “Parisi Warmup” and start doing some shit that interests you.
(B) Squat/Jump Squat combo: After the warmup, we’ll do a couple sets of squats with an empty bar to practice technique and do some vertical jumps to see where you’re at. Then we would do:
5 jumps squats holding a pair of 20lb dumbbells.
5 squats with 165
5 jump squats holding a pair of 20lb dumbbells.
5 squats with 175
5 jumps squats with 20s
5 squats with 185
5 jump squats with 20s
5 squats with 195
5 jump squats with 20s
5 squats with 205
After each set, you would rest at least one minute, maybe a little longer if your conditioning wasn’t so great. So do the jump squats, rest at least a minute, do the barbell squats, rest at least a minute, do the jump squats, rest at least a minute, and so on…
(C) Chin Ups. We would do 25 total. Since you can only do about 6 at a time with good technique. We would start with sets of 3, with about 30 seconds (10 big breaths) in between. You would probably be able to get 3-4 sets like this with good form, before we drop down to sets of 2 and eventually one at a time. If you couldn’t get all 25 reps with good form, we would stop a little early, but you should be able to get at least 15.
(D) Romanian Deadlift. 3 sets of 10-15 reps. Go light and focus on using your glutes (butt) and hamstrings, not your back. Probably start with 95 pounds or so on your first set to get the feel for it. SLDL 315 x 12 - YouTube
(E) Pushups. If you can do 20 bodyweight with perfect technique, we would start doing weighted (start with a 25lb plate on your back) for like 5 sets of 5.
That’s it. Do that twice a week. Each workout, try to do 5 more pounds on your heaviest sets of squats until you get to 225. So that should be 5 workouts. After that, we can modify.
That’s my advice to you, take it or leave it.
[quote]lm24 wrote:
Hello, long time lurker here. After seeing all this volleyball discussion recently, I couldn’t help but post. I pretty much only started lifting seriously 3 years ago when I graduated from college, and I started playing volleyball in recreational leagues about 2 years ago - at first it was just something to do but I got addicted and play anywhere between 6-10 hours a week. While not on your levels, I feel I can hold my own in a BB league now.
Anyways, I’ve been trying to figure out what direction to take my training/diet in the meantime. I’m 6’ 174 lbs right now. My standing vert is somewhere between 27-28 in and for some reason, with an approach it only goes up about an inch (I’d imagine it is way more for most people). If it means anything, I had a goofy approach (I’m right handed, and my last 3 steps were right-left-right) less than a year ago and I had to correct that habit.
I have a 5RM low bar box squat (11.25 in box, squatting w/o shoes) of 245 lbs. I managed to power clean & jerk 215 about two months ago when I was 4 lbs heavier, before I got derailed a bit with flu and injuries.
I was thinking of cutting to 170 or lower to drop under 10% bf and maintain strength to get more vert (according to coolcolj’s formula on kelly baggett’s site, if I drop 6 lb fat I should gain an inch in vert), but after reading some of your comments, it seems you recommend to just put on lean mass & get the squat up?
Thanks in advance.[/quote]
Generally the most explosive athletes in the 6’ height range tend to be between 160 and 200 pounds. Since you don’t seem very naturally “springy” (as evidenced by 1" difference between standing and approach vertical), you are probably going to do better at the higher end of that weight. Since I’m imagining you’re not crazy-ripped, your overall muscle mass is probably a bit at the low end for your height. I wouldn’t recommend “bulking” in the traditional sense, but I would focus on strength and not be concerned if you keep adding a few more pounds.
Realistically speaking, if you want to get your vert into the 30s, you are going to need to be squatting over 315, so I would focus on strength right. Plus, the fact that you back squat probably 275-295 but can clean and jerk 215 shows me that you don’t have a huge explosive strength deficit, so that is another reason why you will benefit more from just getting stronger.
Keep playing ball (or if you aren’t in a league or anything right now, practice maybe 30-50 running and standing jumps twice a week) and get your squat up over 315, then let’s talk about what you need to do to get your vert into the mid-30s.
At 28" or so, you should be pretty close to touching the rim, if not touching it already?
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
I’d just read the ultimate split on Bagget’s website it has a formula for the VJ.[/quote]
Yessir, my current workout split is based on Baggett’s Ultimate Split, though it is more the strength version than the plyo version. I do the 4 day split as he lists, 2 upper 2 lower. On lower day 1, I do box squats, reverse bb lunge, and GHRs, and on lower day 2, I do cleans or deadlifts depending on how I feel, bulgarian split squat, and reverse hypers.
jtrinsey, your observations are right on. It confirmed some of my thoughts and I’m going to focus on getting my squat up as you recommended. The VJ formula also indicated/confirmed that I’m near my plyometric potential given my current squat. However, as a 2 footed leaper/someone who is not naturally “springy”, I’d like to think that I should be able to have more than 1 inch difference between standing and approach jump (obviously I’m not expecting 8+ inches, but maybe 2-4)? Perhaps I should practice my approach more? I still play volleyball multiple times a week, but right now it is mostly 6’s, so I’m probably not jumping that much in total volume during the games. Would it be a good idea to do 10-20 approach jumps before the games after warmup?
Oh, and I can barely grab rim with both hands, but I can get 3-4 inches above rim if I’m reaching with only one hand.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
alejandro,
If you were one of the players I train, here’s how I would set up your training session:
(A) Warmup: I’m going to skip discussing this because there’s a shit-ton of stuff out there on it, and it’s way too hard to explain via text. If want to know more, Youtube “Parisi Warmup” and start doing some shit that interests you.
(B) Squat/Jump Squat combo: After the warmup, we’ll do a couple sets of squats with an empty bar to practice technique and do some vertical jumps to see where you’re at. Then we would do:
5 jumps squats holding a pair of 20lb dumbbells.
5 squats with 165
5 jump squats holding a pair of 20lb dumbbells.
5 squats with 175
5 jumps squats with 20s
5 squats with 185
5 jump squats with 20s
5 squats with 195
5 jump squats with 20s
5 squats with 205
After each set, you would rest at least one minute, maybe a little longer if your conditioning wasn’t so great. So do the jump squats, rest at least a minute, do the barbell squats, rest at least a minute, do the jump squats, rest at least a minute, and so on…
(C) Chin Ups. We would do 25 total. Since you can only do about 6 at a time with good technique. We would start with sets of 3, with about 30 seconds (10 big breaths) in between. You would probably be able to get 3-4 sets like this with good form, before we drop down to sets of 2 and eventually one at a time. If you couldn’t get all 25 reps with good form, we would stop a little early, but you should be able to get at least 15.
(D) Romanian Deadlift. 3 sets of 10-15 reps. Go light and focus on using your glutes (butt) and hamstrings, not your back. Probably start with 95 pounds or so on your first set to get the feel for it. SLDL 315 x 12 - YouTube
(E) Pushups. If you can do 20 bodyweight with perfect technique, we would start doing weighted (start with a 25lb plate on your back) for like 5 sets of 5.
That’s it. Do that twice a week. Each workout, try to do 5 more pounds on your heaviest sets of squats until you get to 225. So that should be 5 workouts. After that, we can modify.
That’s my advice to you, take it or leave it.[/quote]
hey man thanks alot, this is a lot of great stuff u have given me, ima get started on this, and work my way up to the 225, i will def take this and work hard man, thanks again
ale ale jandro ale ale jandro.
12" RVJ, getting up nasty.
ya my deadlift is whack but it transfers, its all good homiez.
peace, happy verting!@$!@
[quote]adarqui wrote:
ale ale jandro ale ale jandro.
12" RVJ, getting up nasty.
ya my deadlift is whack but it transfers, its all good homiez.
peace, happy verting!@$!@[/quote]
How many workouts per week do you do to maintain your vert, or are you trying to get it higher?
[quote]alejandro17 wrote:
hey man thanks alot, this is a lot of great stuff u have given me, ima get started on this, and work my way up to the 225, i will def take this and work hard man, thanks again [/quote]
Good deal man. Hit me back when you hit 225 and I’ll try and help you with the next phase.
lm24,
Sounds like you are on the right track. I basically just parrot everything from KB, so if you are going straight to the source then you are golden.
Yeah, do some extra approach work. Especially if you just transitioned from goofy-foot to “standard” approach, it’s probably going to take some time for you to get efficient with that jumping style. Get plenty of extra approach work in; it can’t really hurt unless you are doing hundreds of extra jumps or you are getting into the high 30s where the stress from the landings starts to take a toll. At your level in the process, you need to get as efficient as possible at approach jumps, so just do them all the time.
At some point, you are going to have to start hitting some plyo stuff, but you need to get your squat up anyway, so I would hit the squatting heavy until you get 315+, then get into some plyo stuff.
