Vert/Speed Training Thread

Training
381

[quote]TurboLykes wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
I see. You really have to get your steps and timing right, and doing all of that with a ball added in takes some getting used to.

This is one of my first dunks after knee surgery. I basically had to relearn how to run, dribble, jump and dunk all in concert all over again. Already posted this, but thought it might help you. Start at the foul line or close to it and work in. You probably won’t be able to take more than two dribbles, but it’ll get you used to puting the ball on the floor and going up using momentum…

That’s an excellent two-legged running vertical. So you recommend starting closer in, like three and four steps, rather than starting from behind the three-point line? I’ll try that. If my performance drops off after two or three steps I might as well start there, kind of like doing depth jumps, huh?[/quote]

Thanks man. I think starting “earlier” would allow you to concentrate on what’s important without losing focus, if that makes any sense. When you can consistently get the steps and timing right from the shorter distance, take it out a bit. Foul line, 3, half court, etc… When I was playing I could weave in and out of traffic full-speed baseline to baseline and crush a two hand cockback, but that was a LLLLOOOONNNGGG time ago, haha. Sorry, I can’t comment on the depth jump anology man, I’ve never done plyos.

382

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
TurboLykes wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
I see. You really have to get your steps and timing right, and doing all of that with a ball added in takes some getting used to.

This is one of my first dunks after knee surgery. I basically had to relearn how to run, dribble, jump and dunk all in concert all over again. Already posted this, but thought it might help you. Start at the foul line or close to it and work in. You probably won’t be able to take more than two dribbles, but it’ll get you used to puting the ball on the floor and going up using momentum…

That’s an excellent two-legged running vertical. So you recommend starting closer in, like three and four steps, rather than starting from behind the three-point line? I’ll try that. If my performance drops off after two or three steps I might as well start there, kind of like doing depth jumps, huh?

Thanks man. I think starting “earlier” would allow you to concentrate on what’s important without losing focus, if that makes any sense. When you can consistently get the steps and timing right from the shorter distance, take it out a bit. Foul line, 3, half court, etc… When I was playing I could weave in and out of traffic full-speed baseline to baseline and crush a two hand cockback, but that was a LLLLOOOONNNGGG time ago, haha. Sorry, I can’t comment on the depth jump anology man, I’ve never done plyos.[/quote]

Whiteflash, you’ve probably mentioned it before, but did you do nothing but strength work? How many inches did you gain doing this? I’m asking because plyos are hell on my knees, and not applicable in season.

383

[quote]arnoud verschoor wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
TurboLykes wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
I see. You really have to get your steps and timing right, and doing all of that with a ball added in takes some getting used to.

This is one of my first dunks after knee surgery. I basically had to relearn how to run, dribble, jump and dunk all in concert all over again. Already posted this, but thought it might help you. Start at the foul line or close to it and work in. You probably won’t be able to take more than two dribbles, but it’ll get you used to puting the ball on the floor and going up using momentum…

That’s an excellent two-legged running vertical. So you recommend starting closer in, like three and four steps, rather than starting from behind the three-point line? I’ll try that. If my performance drops off after two or three steps I might as well start there, kind of like doing depth jumps, huh?

Thanks man. I think starting “earlier” would allow you to concentrate on what’s important without losing focus, if that makes any sense. When you can consistently get the steps and timing right from the shorter distance, take it out a bit. Foul line, 3, half court, etc… When I was playing I could weave in and out of traffic full-speed baseline to baseline and crush a two hand cockback, but that was a LLLLOOOONNNGGG time ago, haha. Sorry, I can’t comment on the depth jump anology man, I’ve never done plyos.

Whiteflash, you’ve probably mentioned it before, but did you do nothing but strength work? How many inches did you gain doing this? I’m asking because plyos are hell on my knees, and not applicable in season.[/quote]

I’ve never done any concentrated jump training other than playing or getting challeged/challenging myself to touch something that looks pretty high, haha. Jtrinsey wrote on here once [and I might be butchering the quote] that for someone who’s naturally springy, training heavy and playing your sport should send you through the roof. I accidentally found this out on my own, but having read the quote I think it’s 100 percent true. I caught my first dunk at 17 and was about 5’7" and 130lbs or so. I’m now 5’9" 180-ish, but my peak vert #'s were at slightly less than 170lbs. Would like to get them back/surpass them at this weight. I wish I could give you an exact number for how many inches gained and what the difference was, but I don’t know. If I had to guess, from just getting stronger and puting on muscle weight while playing 1-2 times a week I’d say 5" or so total at my peak. If I had taken it seriously and been less focused on trying to get big and been more focused on improving naturally dominant qualities I’m sure it would’ve been 10" or more.

384

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I’ve never done any concentrated jump training other than playing or getting challeged/challenging myself to touch something that looks pretty high, haha. Jtrinsey wrote on here once [and I might be butchering the quote] that for someone who’s naturally springy, training heavy and playing your sport should send you through the roof. I accidentally found this out on my own, but having read the quote I think it’s 100 percent true. I caught my first dunk at 17 and was about 5’7" and 130lbs or so. I’m now 5’9" 180-ish, but my peak vert #'s were at slightly less than 170lbs. Would like to get them back/surpass them at this weight. I wish I could give you an exact number for how many inches gained and what the difference was, but I don’t know. If I had to guess, from just getting stronger and puting on muscle weight while playing 1-2 times a week I’d say 5" or so total at my peak. If I had taken it seriously and been less focused on trying to get big and been more focused on improving naturally dominant qualities I’m sure it would’ve been 10" or more.[/quote]

That sounds like a pretty solid quote. I remember in high school basketball how the “springy” guys usually lacked in raw strength, yet us naturally stronger guys usually lacked more in “springiness.” Freshman year was the first time I had ever heard of plyos, which our coach had us do (it was a pretty crappy plyo program). I remember the springy, fast guard types didn’t gain anything significant from plyos (we never did weights), yet us stronger guys did. Our coach had me retest my vertical twice because they didn’t believe I had a 31" standing vertical/35" one step vertical. Right then I saw how much plyos helped.

Back in high school I was the guy with a relatively fast 40 (4.7), high vertical (31), but couldn’t shuffle/change directions/run and jump for shit. Teammates would love watching me grab the rim from a standstill, yet watch as I wasn’t able to touch the rim from a run from the three-point line. Anyone who doesn’t have this problem has no idea how frustrating it is to watch guys with verticals that are over 6" lower than yours able to throw it down easily off the run.

When I’m running and jumping it feels like the force that I exert on my ankles/ball of foot is just too much for it to handle, thus I go flat footed and transfer all of that power into the ground, when it should be “loaded up” in the ankle/front foot area. My varsity coach during the regional finals warmup called me over to tell me to stop dunking/attempting to dunk. He said, “You have some sick hops, TurboLykes, but you have the ugliest jump I’ve ever seen. Don’t worry about dunking.”

The only thing is now I know what to work on, yet NO ONE ever knew what was “wrong” with me when I was participating in team sports.

385

TurboLykes,

You sound like me, although I have always jumped well off of a 2-footed approach. This is probably why I did better in volleyball than basketball. Volleyball is not really about change of direction, just line up your approach and jump out of the gym and blast. Basketball is not really about a peak jump but how quickly you can get off an 80-90% jump.

Interestingly enough, my feet have gotten a lot better since I started training Muay Thai fighting which means all my training has been barefoot and a lot of jogging along with lots of balance and coordination drills. Basically, a lot of stuff touched on in this article:

386

ok guys i got a quick question for you thats kinda dumb but im so curious. ok pretty much although im 6’3 220-225 i feel as if alot of whats holding me back are my legs. I think alot of the fat in my body is literally on my legs…i can literally move my hamstring fat and calve fat around like a bigger person can move his stomach around if that makes sense.

i know you cant spot reduce fat, but im wondering if bulking up and strengthening my legs would be ideal for my vert, or losing this fat around my legs

i know this sounds dumb but its been something ive been tihnking about for a long time now

387

Though I haven’t directly used any of his programs or idea[l]s, I gotta say Kelly Baggett seems to really know his shit.

388

240,

What are your strength numbers like?

389

most recently from what i remember
i bench 225x7
i squatted 315x3
and i deadlift 385x3

390

Yeah you still need to get stronger. I would say get to the 365 range and then maybe worry about getting a little leaner. You still need more horsepower right now.

391

hello fellas.

im 175cm tall, which is abt 5’11 i suppose.
weighs 145 pounds (if 1kg=2.25)
can squat 215 for 3 sets of 5, not including some warmups at slightly lower weights or so.
bench 157 for 3 x 5

i dun do deadlifts all that much im afraid.

can get rim running and jumpin off 1 foot.
couldnt get rim in the past off 2 feet, but recently was able to get it on occasions, off 2 feet after a few steps of walkin in.

i suppose that was from all the squats, but my running 1 foot still hasnt improved much, only by an inch or so, and that could well be due to better form on occasions…

so, any pointers? shud i stick with the weights and keep squatting? been startin to do barbell stepups, figuring it might hit each leg more directly…

any help fellas?

392

[quote]cowed77 wrote:
hello fellas.

im 175cm tall, which is abt 5’11 i suppose.
weighs 145 pounds (if 1kg=2.25)
can squat 215 for 3 sets of 5, not including some warmups at slightly lower weights or so.
bench 157 for 3 x 5

i dun do deadlifts all that much im afraid.

can get rim running and jumpin off 1 foot.
couldnt get rim in the past off 2 feet, but recently was able to get it on occasions, off 2 feet after a few steps of walkin in.

i suppose that was from all the squats, but my running 1 foot still hasnt improved much, only by an inch or so, and that could well be due to better form on occasions…

so, any pointers? shud i stick with the weights and keep squatting? been startin to do barbell stepups, figuring it might hit each leg more directly…

any help fellas? [/quote]

stop being lazy and read this thread front to back. Then you will have a few ideas.

393

[quote]cowed77 wrote:
hello fellas.

im 175cm tall, which is abt 5’11 i suppose.
weighs 145 pounds (if 1kg=2.25)
can squat 215 for 3 sets of 5, not including some warmups at slightly lower weights or so.
bench 157 for 3 x 5

i dun do deadlifts all that much im afraid.

can get rim running and jumpin off 1 foot.
couldnt get rim in the past off 2 feet, but recently was able to get it on occasions, off 2 feet after a few steps of walkin in.

i suppose that was from all the squats, but my running 1 foot still hasnt improved much, only by an inch or so, and that could well be due to better form on occasions…

so, any pointers? shud i stick with the weights and keep squatting? been startin to do barbell stepups, figuring it might hit each leg more directly…

any help fellas? [/quote]

Learn English your grammar and spelling suck more than my punctuation and I have only 6 months ESL training

394

you know, i actually did read this thread cover to cover, and before u asked me to. just asking cos im kinda stalling in my lifting, and thought some pointers might push me in the right direction.

for what its worth, i was doing a largely similar thing to the 5x5, except i dont deadlift alot, as i felt that squats might help my vert more. well, i also see ppl saying that the posterior chain is key to a decent vert, so i suppose i’d start on my deads.

had wanted to try out this program,

but i found that i just wasnt able to recover in time for the next session.

lastly, im sorry if u find my english horrible. i personally thought it was alright, but if it so irks u, i’ll try to improve myself there, too.

haha, i suppose i’ll just get back to squatting, sprinting, and hoping. cheers.

395

[quote]TurboLykes wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
I’ve never done any concentrated jump training other than playing or getting challeged/challenging myself to touch something that looks pretty high, haha. Jtrinsey wrote on here once [and I might be butchering the quote] that for someone who’s naturally springy, training heavy and playing your sport should send you through the roof. I accidentally found this out on my own, but having read the quote I think it’s 100 percent true. I caught my first dunk at 17 and was about 5’7" and 130lbs or so. I’m now 5’9" 180-ish, but my peak vert #'s were at slightly less than 170lbs. Would like to get them back/surpass them at this weight. I wish I could give you an exact number for how many inches gained and what the difference was, but I don’t know. If I had to guess, from just getting stronger and puting on muscle weight while playing 1-2 times a week I’d say 5" or so total at my peak. If I had taken it seriously and been less focused on trying to get big and been more focused on improving naturally dominant qualities I’m sure it would’ve been 10" or more.

That sounds like a pretty solid quote. I remember in high school basketball how the “springy” guys usually lacked in raw strength, yet us naturally stronger guys usually lacked more in “springiness.” Freshman year was the first time I had ever heard of plyos, which our coach had us do (it was a pretty crappy plyo program). I remember the springy, fast guard types didn’t gain anything significant from plyos (we never did weights), yet us stronger guys did. Our coach had me retest my vertical twice because they didn’t believe I had a 31" standing vertical/35" one step vertical. Right then I saw how much plyos helped.

Back in high school I was the guy with a relatively fast 40 (4.7), high vertical (31), but couldn’t shuffle/change directions/run and jump for shit. Teammates would love watching me grab the rim from a standstill, yet watch as I wasn’t able to touch the rim from a run from the three-point line. Anyone who doesn’t have this problem has no idea how frustrating it is to watch guys with verticals that are over 6" lower than yours able to throw it down easily off the run.

When I’m running and jumping it feels like the force that I exert on my ankles/ball of foot is just too much for it to handle, thus I go flat footed and transfer all of that power into the ground, when it should be “loaded up” in the ankle/front foot area. My varsity coach during the regional finals warmup called me over to tell me to stop dunking/attempting to dunk. He said, “You have some sick hops, TurboLykes, but you have the ugliest jump I’ve ever seen. Don’t worry about dunking.”

The only thing is now I know what to work on, yet NO ONE ever knew what was “wrong” with me when I was participating in team sports.[/quote]

Did your coach actually call you TurboLykes?

396

[quote]240lbs40vert wrote:
ok guys i got a quick question for you thats kinda dumb but im so curious. ok pretty much although im 6’3 220-225 i feel as if alot of whats holding me back are my legs. I think alot of the fat in my body is literally on my legs…i can literally move my hamstring fat and calve fat around like a bigger person can move his stomach around if that makes sense.

i know you cant spot reduce fat, but im wondering if bulking up and strengthening my legs would be ideal for my vert, or losing this fat around my legs

i know this sounds dumb but its been something ive been tihnking about for a long time now[/quote]

strengthening your legs and lose some bodyfat at the same time. Read some articles here about nutrition and you’ll be on your way

397

[quote]Lift or die wrote:
240lbs40vert wrote:
ok guys i got a quick question for you thats kinda dumb but im so curious. ok pretty much although im 6’3 220-225 i feel as if alot of whats holding me back are my legs. I think alot of the fat in my body is literally on my legs…i can literally move my hamstring fat and calve fat around like a bigger person can move his stomach around if that makes sense.

i know you cant spot reduce fat, but im wondering if bulking up and strengthening my legs would be ideal for my vert, or losing this fat around my legs

i know this sounds dumb but its been something ive been tihnking about for a long time now
[/quote]
strengthen your legs and lose some bodyfat at the same time. Read some articles here about nutrition and training and you’ll be on your way

398

[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Did your coach actually call you TurboLykes?
[/quote]

My weightlifting coach calls me “Turbo.”

399

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I was wondering. Why is it that people can’t keep doing singles over 90% and can’t keep getting strength? If we have the potential to life boulders when faced with a life and death situation, wouldn’t it make sense that we can keep training like that and get closer and closer to that potential? Does it have to do with the brain wanting to prevent that due to the danger that comes with pushing the body that far?

400

[quote]DjSm28 wrote:
If we have the potential to life boulders when faced with a life and death situation[/quote]

This is kind of a hijack, but I always thought this was kind of bullshit. Same thing with the “mother can lift up a car if her baby is trapped under” anecdote that always gets bandied about.

People get in car accidents and are trapped inside cars or their loved ones are trapped in their cars. I know a few EMTs and have never heard them tell a story of somebody busting out of a car or ripping a door off. Remember that guy who got his arm trapped under a boulder? I’m pretty sure he would have rather picked the boulder up rather than saw his fucking arm off.

Yeah, I’m sure the adrenaline surge helps, but if you’re 140 pounds, you ain’t gonna be squatting 1000 pounds, no matter how much you might want to.