Velocity Diet vs Keto Diet

Diet and Nutrition
1

This probably gets asked all the time, but which would you recommend more. I know this a Velocity thread, but I still figure get sound advice.

Ive been lifitn for about 3 years. I was 6’1" and about 260lbs. I was not the best shape ever (18-20% bf)…college kicked my ass. Last Feb, I was about 209lbs with about 13%bf.
I spending the summer in Germany working on a project and dont have access to a good gym so I didnt waste the money. They dont eat a lot over here, and there diet is terrible (Beer,Pork,Beer,Sausage, Bread, Potatoes…and did I mention Beer). Needless to say, I lost weight, but not a ton of fat, mostly muscle.

In September, Im gonna have to start fresh. I want to get rid of excess fat before I bulk. Ideally 10%-12%. I want to go on bulking ASAP.

What would you recommend Velocity Diet or Keto? Both have positives and negatives. I have trouble keeping weight off and I am worried that as soon as I am done dieting and go back to a normal diet (not even bulking diet) of healthy foods for maintanence that I will put weight back on. This a problem with either? Is tapering off required?

I am thinking about going on Anabolic Diet later, but worried about high fat content as well. Also any recommendations on cardio (I will have to do something because of my trouble keeping weight off, no matter which diet)?

Please help I am not a dieting expert and open to any and all advice, info, or criticism!

2

I would do keto and look out for dairy. This is very individualistic, but I personally believe (by experience with myself and others) that dairy is a bugaboo for many dieters- low-carb or otherwise.

Some dairy is low-carb, so many include it in their low-carb diets. But, it’s not just the amount of carbs, it’s the SOURCE of those carbs that could be an issue for you.

The thing about the Velocity Diet is that it is all Whey shakes (plus your healthy meal). Whey is dairy based. Sure, the diet works becuase you are restricting calories, but I am not a fan because it is all dairy, all the time and that may not work for some. I am actually shocked that the fact that the VD is all dairy for 4 weeks straight hasn’t been brought up more, but I guess that wouldn’t sell tubs of Metabollic Drive, now would it…

I am also not a fan of shakes for breakfast. You need the thermogenic effect of a solid meal in the morning. A whey shake WILL spike your insulin and screw up your insulin for the rest of the day.

Also, SCREW post-workout shakes if you are cutting. People freak about about this magic pwo window, insulin, blah blah blah. Just take some BCAAs and eat a solid meal when you are hungry afterwards. People just aren’t going to lose muscle that fast if they skip the pwo shakes for a few weeks. Busting your ass with cardio then chugging shake of any sort (much less Surge, wtf) while trying to melt fat is absurd.

So, just try to avoid dairy and fruit for 2 weeks, go very low carb (meats, nuts and leafy greens). No shakes- all solid food. Do cardio and lift (1 each day, alternating days, one day off per week, short rest periods during lifting). Supplement with fish oil at every meal.

The fat will fall off. I will get flamed or questioned but if you do this you will get leaner and won’t lose much if any muscle at all. After 2 weeks you can switch your workouts to 3 weights, 2 hitt per week and have dairy once every 5 days. You can incorporate some fruits and whole grains at that point but keep them low for about 4-5 weeks. Then, you reassess.

3

[quote]trextacy wrote:
The fat will fall off. I will get flamed or questioned but if you do this you will get leaner and won’t lose much if any muscle at all. After 2 weeks you can switch your workouts to 3 weights, 2 hitt per week and have dairy once every 5 days. You can incorporate some fruits and whole grains at that point but keep them low for about 4-5 weeks. Then, you reassess.[/quote]

The fat WILL fall off. I can’t imagine the muscle that will fall off too.

Defly not flaming you, but after a vigorous workout you may need a bit more than just BCAA’s to recover. You didn’t state how many (40g?) so it might be a little confusing for him. If you take 5-10g I’m pretty sure the muscles gonna fly off. An intense circuit workout followed by cardio, with basically nothing as a post workout shake is gonna leave you drained, not to mention a very long time to recover. I do agree that if you’re going low-carb, your PWO shake does not have to contain any carbs because I think the BCAA’s are fine. Maybe be a bit more precise next time.

Also, would you say a shake in the morning that consists of zero carb isopure and water would cause an insulin spike that would screw you up for the rest of the day? =\

4

[quote]nycsoccax wrote:
trextacy wrote:
The fat will fall off. I will get flamed or questioned but if you do this you will get leaner and won’t lose much if any muscle at all. After 2 weeks you can switch your workouts to 3 weights, 2 hitt per week and have dairy once every 5 days. You can incorporate some fruits and whole grains at that point but keep them low for about 4-5 weeks. Then, you reassess.

The fat WILL fall off. I can’t imagine the muscle that will fall off too.

Defly not flaming you, but after a vigorous workout you may need a bit more than just BCAA’s to recover. You didn’t state how many (40g?) so it might be a little confusing for him. If you take 5-10g I’m pretty sure the muscles gonna fly off. An intense circuit workout followed by cardio, with basically nothing as a post workout shake is gonna leave you drained, not to mention a very long time to recover. I do agree that if you’re going low-carb, your PWO shake does not have to contain any carbs because I think the BCAA’s are fine. Maybe be a bit more precise next time.

Also, would you say a shake in the morning that consists of zero carb isopure and water would cause an insulin spike that would screw you up for the rest of the day? =\

[/quote]

The muscle will not fly off. It’s easier to gain and lose fat, and harder to gain and lose muscle. If you have adequate protein with good fats and solid training you don’t need to load the body w/ sugar pwo (or w/ anything, really) to avoid your body burning up muscle. This DOES NOT happen and certainly not within the time period we are talking about. Fear of losing muscle while dieting is something I’ve seen a lot of on here, and I hate to be cynical but my take is that the site (and authors who are promoted by it and vice versa) wants people needing Surge and Metabollic Drive regardless of goals.

I wouldn’t do intense circuit training then follow that up with cardio unless everything came in at under 60-70 minutes. More than that would be very catabolic given the dietary circumstances. The lifting should leave you not wanting to do cardio and vice versa.

A liquid meal first thing in the morning, I’ve found, is not a good option and will spike insulin more than a solid meal. Plus a sold meal will have a thermic effect when digested. A shake first thing in the morning is just not optimum when trying to lose fat. Even if it doesn’t have any carbs.

5

[quote]trextacy wrote:
The muscle will not fly off. It’s easier to gain and lose fat, and harder to gain and lose muscle. If you have adequate protein with good fats and solid training you don’t need to load the body w/ sugar pwo (or w/ anything, really) to avoid your body burning up muscle.

This DOES NOT happen and certainly not within the time period we are talking about. Fear of losing muscle while dieting is something I’ve seen a lot of on here, and I hate to be cynical but my take is that the site (and authors who are promoted by it and vice versa) wants people needing Surge and Metabollic Drive regardless of goals.[/quote]

I agree with you here. Yet you really didn’t read what I said in that I don’t agree with having sugar PWO. You just didn’t state how many BCAA you deem is appropriate for him, which would leave him confused (and you still haven’t given any suggestions…)

I do intense circuit training followed by 20 min. of steady state cardio in way under 60 minutes. The lifting certainly doesn’t make me want to do cardio afterward but it’s the goal your striving for which makes you do it. It’s called intense circuit training for a reason.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, nor am I disputing that a solid meal has more of a thermic effect, but can I have proof that a liquid meal will spike insulin, “even if it doesn’t have any carbs” ?
k cool.

6

Wouldn’t BCAA + Whey be a good substitute for the Surge PWO? You’d still get a shot of protein without carbs. 5-10g Pre and During WO would help prevent muscle loss too.

7

Thanks for the comments

I’m gettin the feeling that the general idea is Keto is the way to go…and no to Velocity Diet?

How long will it take for a good Keto diet to drop down? I am think I will need some carb re-load at least on Sundays because I get soo drained when I go low-carb…

I agree with the Biotest product-pushin to an extent. I was wondering about maybe some Isopure (not sure if it has Casein off the top of my head) or any low carb Casein protein plus some BCAAs to sub for Metabloic drive…trying to conserve money here.

I also talked to my friend who is a powerlifter and did Keto a couple of months ago while gettin ready for a Nationals qualifier so he could go down a weightclass. He said he just did carbs pre- and post- and no carbs on training days…opinions on this?

8

[quote]tg2hbk4488 wrote:
Thanks for the comments

I’m gettin the feeling that the general idea is Keto is the way to go…and no to Velocity Diet?

How long will it take for a good Keto diet to drop down? I am think I will need some carb re-load at least on Sundays because I get soo drained when I go low-carb…

I agree with the Biotest product-pushin to an extent. I was wondering about maybe some Isopure (not sure if it has Casein off the top of my head) or any low carb Casein protein plus some BCAAs to sub for Metabloic drive…trying to conserve money here.

I also talked to my friend who is a powerlifter and did Keto a couple of months ago while gettin ready for a Nationals qualifier so he could go down a weightclass. He said he just did carbs pre- and post- and no carbs on training days…opinions on this?
[/quote]

I don’t understand the last question- he does it pre and post and no carbs on traiing days…seems like if you were going to have carbs you would do it on training days.

I would say low to no carbs–even around training. If you were trying to add lean mass I would say that a more rotational cyclical keto plan might work best, but your goal right now is fat loss. Focus on getting that done as fast as possible. Let your body burn w/o food for fuel for a bit…it will use fat stores instead, and that’s the whole point. People overthink things and convince themselves that “no carbs consumed w/in an hour of training can become fat”-- well, that may be true but you won’t be burning any either. I would wager a lot that the person who avoids that kind of shit will lean out much quicker than someone who is pounding pwo shakes while leaning out. If you are lifting every other day, that is an extra 200-300 calories 4-5 times a week. It has an effect.

I understand the mental challenge and desire for carb re-loads. Since you aren’t a bodybuilder or athlete, there is no reason to miss out on life too much just to lose some fat. SO, I would say you if you want you can cheat as much as Friday night through Saturday…BUT NO DAIRY OR SHAKES OR FRUIT FOR THE FIRST 2 WEEKS…EVEN DURING CHEAT TIME. You would lose faster if you didn’t cheat those first 2 weeks but I’d rather your compliance with a more lenient approach be perfect that you feak out and give up on the strictest approach. However, be absolutely perfect the rest of the time and alternate days between HIIT and a high intensity full body weight program (like german body comp) with short rest periods.

1 Like
9

I suggest if you’ve not been on the V-Diet before, go on the keto diet first…when you find the discipline to go shakes only then jump on the V-Diet for the last bit to drop the BF.

Its very easy to lose motivation having shakes for food…

10

i apologize…it was a simply typing error. My friend did carbs pre- and post- on training days. No carbs on non-training days. He talked about insulin spiking right around training. It was so long ago I forget everything he was explaining… I apologize for the confusion…

I don’t think discipline will be to much of an issue. I’ve gotten lean before, but it was when I first began so was doin two cardio sessions a day, big calorie slashing, and total overhaul of diet, and new to training to fat comes off faster then. I am now more educated just fell off the bandwagon since January and the European lifestyle isnt helping…

So just eat protein with healthy fats for a month, take some thermos, Lift 5 days a week, Cardio 6 days a week (with HIIT 3 of those times), and just only carbs come from green veggies (broccolli, spinach, aspargus, etc.)

Like 1300 kcals daily, shit load of spinach and lettuce, steak, fish, nuts, chicken, Isopure, water, and thermos basically.

This sound, or overdueing esp cardio wise?

Really appreciate the input!! Thanks!!

11

I would do 3x per week lifting and 3x per week cardio (maybe 4), but I basically agree with what you are saying. I know it sounds extreme and is kind of old school (just slash calories and work out), but just because it isn’t new and won’t make anyone any money with special supps or books doesn’t mean it won’t leave you as lean as possible in 3 weeks.

About the calorie count, DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE MYTHICAL “Starvation Mode” where your body "hoards"e every calorie you give it, thus screwing up fat loss…your body won’t go into it! Your body will get all the kcals it needs…1300 from food and the rest, hopefully, from fat stores. There you go.

Again, this is if the goal is to drop as much fat as possible ASAP. Lift heavy, hard and take BCAAs…that and a high protein and fat diet should equal little to no muscle loss.

1 Like
12

thanks.

anybody know any cheap low- or zero-carb casein protein supps, particularly cheaper than Metabolic Drive or better yet Dairy free? I am a busy man and cant eat chicken, fish, steak, or eggs 5 times a day…

Also, how important is glutamine now? Everyone says its only really good for cutting. Should I throw it in with some BCAAs as well or not worth it?