Just skimmed through this for the first time, but I think Knee on Belly is one of the best positions. Not only is it good for control and offensive submissions/greater control, but provides easy disengagement if additional attackers present themselves or for you to completely disengage and leave, in a way that is limiting in mount. For larger individuals, it also has a the benefit of putting weight on them in a painfully disarming way.
I completely agree with arm drags. For some reason they are the simplest and most effect way to enter back control or other holds.
I canât help but highlight the simple wrist lock tho. Itâs so effective and simple. Someone goes to shove you and locking their wrist and elbow as you pull their wrist is so painful and unsuspecting.
The title of this thread is not âBest MMA sports competitor.â
Tank Abbot used strength training to become an absolute menace. Prime Tank Abbot out in the wild was about as dangerous as a person can get with their bare hands.
Tank Abbot is the embodiment of American Tough and everything we have been talking about in this thread.
@dchris Knee pins are another solid option for all of the reasons you listed. Wall pins were the only pin on my list because I used them on the job more. I can recall using two knee pins and they were brief transitions to the mount. I linked a video called judo cop way up thread with a great display of knee pins to control a situation.
Going to the ground is sketchy business in a bar setting.
Iâd say his losing record is very much a testament to this as well. Like he talked about in the podcast, he didnât care if he won or lost: he just wanted a fight. And holy f**k is that a terrifying mindset if youâre on the other side of it. And, in turn, Tank took on a lot of fights he never should have IF his goal was to have a winning record, but weâve also seen the opposite of that: dudes who cherry pick opponents so that they can keep a winning record and, in turn, never really have âa fightâ.
If I cloned myself at my strongest to assemble a bouncing team of 4 twojarslaves, we are going to get Royce Gracie out of the bar on our terms even if he doesnât want to leave.
One of us is definitely going to get hurt, probably really bad, if Tank Abbot doesnât want to leave the bar. Maybe all four of us. It might not go our way at all.
I feel like youâve introduced 3 people here, so Iâm confused.
Iâm talking about Tank being terrifying to be on the other side of, which would mean it would be me and Tank. When you say âthe other person isnât afraid to do whatever it takes to stop youâ, is Tank the other person here? I assume itâs a given heâs going to do whatever it takes to stop me: itâs why he wants to have a fight.
Tank, or someone with his mindset, isnât terrifying to someone who isnât afraid to do whatever it takes to come out on top.
And Tank really isnât some superhero. Watch his fight with a smaller Vitor Belfort. Tank turtled up and was saved by the ref. He is a human being and can be broken mentally and emotionally.
Using your size and strength to win a fight, sure, but that goes for most bigger individuals. There is nothing special about Tank. Aaron Donald, JJ/TJ Watt, etc. would do the same thing. They would both murder Tank in his prime. They are bigger, faster, and stronger.
When I think about fightersâ fortitude, I think about the cliche of Mexican, Irish, and Italian fighters who just keep moving forward, taking a hit to give one, and eventually coming out on top. A combination of heart and skill.
Tank fought in a time when most fighters were rarely trained. He beat up on guys who were either smaller than him and/or less skilled. He either won in the first few minutes or he was knocked out. You might have a point if his fights went the distance and he won.
He was mentally unstable with a propensity for violence. There are thousands of those men in prison.
I was writing about Abbotâs description of the term, which he clearly stated was separate from skill. You are, of course, free to use the OTay definition of that term, but I will apologize in advance for having no interest in listening to you talk about it for a few hours on a podcast.
Bully technique I favored when wrestling/BJJ sparring was using the forearm to smash against opponents face, and or throat, putting full weight/strength into it. I did end one altercation by using forearm against opponents throat which caused them to tap. Not a BJJ practitioner, but it may be a legit choking technique, but seems to fit the criteria for this conversation.
Speaking of bikers and cowboys, any thoughts on fighting steer wrestlers? I feel like they would be unconventionally strong, have unconventional tactics, would not be scared of much to include broken bones and are probably somewhat impervious to pain.
@ForrestChump Pressure in general gets more miserable with larger and larger opponents, doubly so when skill is also brought to bear. A cross-face with the forearm or even just a CPR palm-stack on the jaw bone can get guys to tap when you know how to load your weight on a small area of the face.
The problem with pressure is that, generally speaking, it may require more technique than we want to assume here in the goon thread. I mentioned it in my original list but left it at that because itâs a really deep and interesting rabbit hole of grappling.
Pressure also SERIOUSLY favors size, so it is certainly an applicable part of this topic.
Knee on belly is a great example of a âtechniqueâ thatâs a foot wide and a mile deep. Just loading your weight on a guyâs torso with your knee might be enough to resolve a situation. Maintaining a floating knee pin is pretty technical though. It is not easy to keep someone under your knee who is untrained but still resisting and instinctively knows how to use his hips to destabilize you. Itâs the same with any other pin. The basics are often easy to grasp but knowing escapes and learning how to maintain pins against them (or just pinning an athletic person) needs mat time.
If I had to give the simplest possible instructions for goon grappling on the ground, it is to get to the mount and stay in the mount, but only if youâre sure itâs just one person in play. Otherwise get back to your feet however you can.
No it isnât. Cross-face is a standard technique of grappling. So is a shin across the face. Itâs just pressure, it wonât hurt you. If someone is crushing your trachea it is on you to tap and explain why we donât usually crush tracheas in training.
Watch out for the red cape. They are trying to trick you.
