Lifting and MMA Training

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

I´m 22 and I´ve been into fighting sports for a few years now. I did my thing in various disciplines and lately started practicing MMA. I´m more of a striking guy, mostly cause of my size (132 lbs). I am of the idea that I should never take someone to the ground, not only because I am a small guy but my goals are not competing as they are learning to defend myself and enjoying the training at the same time.

I have also been on the gym for about 3 years but had almost a year off, my numbers are what a PLer would laugh at and I want to develop strength to have the edge in any encounter and because I enjoy it too.

I know experienced fighters are not impressed by arm´s size and know power in striking does not come from a big bench press. Still I believe (and I might be wrong) that can be said about people who have some base strength and mine has not reach “basic” category yet.
BP: 90 lbs DL: 200 lbs OHP: 44 lbs Pull-ups: 11 lbs added

Will I improve my power output (aside from improving technique and actual striking) increase if I increased those numbers? Put easier…Would I strike harder? I´ve heard that explosive strength increases along with max strength when someone has not reached a determined level yet (wich seems to be my case)

2

How tall are you? Approximately what bodyfat %? Are you willing to go up a weight class?

It sounds like you want an excuse to lift and get bigger. This whole page is an excuse. Get you some Westside or 5/3/1 or whatever mass program floats your boat, eat like a mofo, and you’ll get bigger and stronger.

Your wind will probably get worse. And if you fight competitively, you’re going against bigger guys. That means reach, power, more weight on you when you’re taken down. Think hard before you go up. Ask Chael Sonnen (and you won’t have the advantage of juicing).

Best way to hit harder is to work on your technique, although some basic lifting won’t hurt I wouldn’t make it my priority.

Also, for defense take another look at grappling. It doesn’t rely on strength. Go watch some old Royce Gracie footage from UFC 1. He may have been the smallest guy there, but he put serious hurt on those guys.

3

Im actually more towards wiry strength than size, not meaning to get big at all. I have no intention to compete at all but I do enjoy training and mostly do it for self defense being this the reason I´d believe increasing strength would give me an “easier” time. I´ve practiced boxing for a few years and don´t see myself learning how to grapple or BJJ, they seem to be pretty complex skills and I´d prefer to hold on to what I already know.

I´m 5’7. Short. Or average just to be nice with myself. I could gain some weight but I feel like I would still get crushed against say a 200 lbs man. That despite my former training and kind of relied on increasing my strength to give me more confidence but I might be mistaken on that one

4

[quote]Salpinx wrote:
I�´m 22 and I�´ve been into fighting sports for a few years now. I did my thing in various disciplines and lately started practicing MMA. I�´m more of a striking guy, mostly cause of my size (132 lbs). I am of the idea that I should never take someone to the ground, not only because I am a small guy but my goals are not competing as they are learning to defend myself and enjoying the training at the same time.

I have also been on the gym for about 3 years but had almost a year off, my numbers are what a PLer would laugh at and I want to develop strength to have the edge in any encounter and because I enjoy it too.

I know experienced fighters are not impressed by armÃ?´s size and know power in striking does not come from a big bench press. Still I believe (and I might be wrong) that can be said about people who have some base strength and mine has not reach “basic” category yet.
BP: 90 lbs DL: 200 lbs OHP: 44 lbs Pull-ups: 11 lbs added

Will I improve my power output (aside from improving technique and actual striking) increase if I increased those numbers? Put easier…Would I strike harder? IÃ?´ve heard that explosive strength increases along with max strength when someone has not reached a determined level yet (wich seems to be my case)[/quote]

Unless you are a flyweight, then yes I would say your power output will improve if you bring your strength up some. But, like others said, it may also result in your weight going up (not necessarily an issue if you’re just training for recreation/hobby or for self defense, but could be if you compete), and/or your conditioning suffering.

Depending on your size, you could be anywhere from very weak to maybe just low end of normal athletic spectrum; we don’t really know as you haven’t included those stats. If you are very weak, then bringing up the strength to at least what would be considered “normal” for an athletic person your size, age, and sex will probably positively benefit you and not necessarily put on much if any unnecessary mass.

There is almost always a point of diminishing returns though where too much strength work will start to slow you down, tire your body out (both during actual training and just in general), and add unwanted mass. Also, like Jim said, technique is really what is going to get you out of most bad positions and allow you to utilize whatever strength/power you do have to it’s maximal effect.

5/3/1 and WS4SB are both decent strength/performance based programs designed for athletes.

5

[quote]Salpinx wrote:
Im actually more towards wiry strength than size, not meaning to get big at all. I have no intention to compete at all but I do enjoy training and mostly do it for self defense being this the reason I´d believe increasing strength would give me an “easier” time. I´ve practiced boxing for a few years and don´t see myself learning how to grapple or BJJ, they seem to be pretty complex skills and I´d prefer to hold on to what I already know.

I´m 5’7. Short. Or average just to be nice with myself. I could gain some weight but I feel like I would still get crushed against say a 200 lbs man. That despite my former training and kind of relied on increasing my strength to give me more confidence but I might be mistaken on that one[/quote]

I’m all for learning boxing if self defense is your aim, but I’d strongly suggest learning at the very least some takedown defense and some basic escapes from common positions as well. Otherwise you are going to be in a world of hurt if some big guy just tackles you to the ground and starts pounding on you. Almost all of your boxing training will be useless to you at that point. And you’re definitely not going to muscle your way out of such a position against a naturally bigger stronger opponent. Maybe if you were like 6’3" 250 lbs and very naturally athletic I’d say “ok, you probably don’t need to spend a whole lot of time learning grappling for self defense, as you’d probably be able to power out of positions against most people.”

6

All good advice above. If you can clarify whether this is for self defense or competition, I think you would get a very focused response. Sento makes good valid points above.

7

This is for self denfense purposes.
Like I said my stats are 5’7 and 132 lbs. I have more of an athetlic complexity and Im fast but more than once I got the “You look stronger thhan you are” even thought I have never done pump work in my life.

I know how to defend a take down and that´s as far as I got. I would avoid the floor at all costs but I wonder if say a 200 lbs guy takes me to the floor I would be able to force my way out of it if I had say 2x, or 3x times the strength I have now. That is considering the other guy is bigger but weaker. I had a training partner weighting that who couldn´t even curl 22 lbs.

8

recreation-wise, just enjoy and fight at whatever weigh-class you want.

9

Well let’s look at things purely from a mathematical standpoint.

2x your current strength would be a 180 lb bench, 180<200 therefore you would still be unable to press one off (even if they were not stronger than you). 3x your current strength would be a 270 lb bench, 270>200 therefore you could just bench press a 200 lb man off of you. Tripling your bench is going to take you years, maybe even decades to achieve though, if you ever do.

Why wouldn’t you want to spend that time learning techniques and tactics from grappling which would allow you to do the same thing in much less time and even against bigger, stronger, and skilled opponents?

10

Well given your current stats speed is your strong suit now you need to focus on using that, with some training, you should be fast enough to avoid any threats. Especially bigger and slower threats. you also need to work strength up to a point where it slows you down. Also get with your instructor to tailor your program to fit your needs. PM me if you want specifics.

11

If you’re training for self-defense purposes, why are you remaining at 132lb?

I found myself small at 158-160lb at roughly the same height as you. I found myself “big” for my height and frame, in that other people noticed something and say that I look big, only when I got to 170lb or so. I suppose actually building shoulder and back muscles for the first time in my life did that.

In regards to strength and performance- I know nothing about striking, but I’ve definitely noticed myself being able to perform judo techniques, both standing and on the ground, much better as my strength improved. I want to note that it’s not because of my weight getting bigger, but better I just got stronger and developed better conditioning.

So if you can (and this is definitely possible) get stronger while staying at the same weight, then do it. Seeing as how record-holding powerlifters in the 132lb weight-class have a 600lb deadlift and a 500lb squat… I know it takes them a lot time and practice to achieve those numbers, but it shouldn’t be all that difficult for you to squat your bw and deadlift 2xbw while still remaining at 132lb.

12

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Well let’s look at things purely from a mathematical standpoint.

2x your current strength would be a 180 lb bench, 180<200 therefore you would still be unable to press one off (even if they were not stronger than you). 3x your current strength would be a 270 lb bench, 270>200 therefore you could just bench press a 200 lb man off of you. Tripling your bench is going to take you years, maybe even decades to achieve though, if you ever do.

Why wouldn’t you want to spend that time learning techniques and tactics from grappling which would allow you to do the same thing in much less time and even against bigger, stronger, and skilled opponents?
[/quote]
Isn’t grappling hardly influenced by weight classes? Would it be a wise idea to grapple in a street situation? With concrete floor and the possibility of another one striking you from above it could be dangerous.
Im not being ironic I just have no idea about the subject and ask sincerely

[quote]magick wrote:
If you’re training for self-defense purposes, why are you remaining at 132lb?

I found myself small at 158-160lb at roughly the same height as you. I found myself “big” for my height and frame, in that other people noticed something and say that I look big, only when I got to 170lb or so. I suppose actually building shoulder and back muscles for the first time in my life did that.

In regards to strength and performance- I know nothing about striking, but I’ve definitely noticed myself being able to perform judo techniques, both standing and on the ground, much better as my strength improved. I want to note that it’s not because of my weight getting bigger, but better I just got stronger and developed better conditioning.

So if you can (and this is definitely possible) get stronger while staying at the same weight, then do it. Seeing as how record-holding powerlifters in the 132lb weight-class have a 600lb deadlift and a 500lb squat… I know it takes them a lot time and practice to achieve those numbers, but it shouldn’t be all that difficult for you to squat your bw and deadlift 2xbw while still remaining at 132lb.[/quote]
I get you. I’ve considered going up (weigth) a lot of times and you kind of convince to do it now. I will try to after I finish my current strength program.

[quote]Dude623 wrote:
Well given your current stats speed is your strong suit now you need to focus on using that, with some training, you should be fast enough to avoid any threats. Especially bigger and slower threats. you also need to work strength up to a point where it slows you down. Also get with your instructor to tailor your program to fit your needs. PM me if you want specifics.[/quote]

The bigger but slow can be relative, I´ve yet have to learn to make the most out of my speed.
I like striking but for self defense I´d like something fast and effective (yeah a punch can be that thing but if the other guy is big I probable won´t have enough power)

13

[quote]Salpinx wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Well let’s look at things purely from a mathematical standpoint.

2x your current strength would be a 180 lb bench, 180<200 therefore you would still be unable to press one off (even if they were not stronger than you). 3x your current strength would be a 270 lb bench, 270>200 therefore you could just bench press a 200 lb man off of you. Tripling your bench is going to take you years, maybe even decades to achieve though, if you ever do.

Why wouldn’t you want to spend that time learning techniques and tactics from grappling which would allow you to do the same thing in much less time and even against bigger, stronger, and skilled opponents?
[/quote]
Isn’t grappling hardly influenced by weight classes? Would it be a wise idea to grapple in a street situation? With concrete floor and the possibility of another one striking you from above it could be dangerous.
Im not being ironic I just have no idea about the subject and ask sincerely

[/quote]

You seem to be of the opinion that you can always choose where the fight will end up. This is simply not the case. Do you want to take a street encounter to the ground? Nope. Might it end up there? Yep. Especially if you’re a buck thirty and have no stand up grappling/anti-grappling skills. If you do end up grounded by a bigger guy and have no ground game and cannot get to a weapon you will have a problem.

Like it or not, most “street situations” will involve some form of grappling at some point unless you are able to knock him out or (wiser and more likely) run the fuck away before he gets that close. Not preparing for the eventuality because you’d sooner box is kinda short sighted.

FWIW I weigh about 230 and I have found that people in the 130 range have been able to hurt me far more with chokes, arm bars and small joint manipulations than by punching me. No offence, but that’s a pretty serious size deficit. If you’re really looking for self defence I would think that (after situational awareness/avoidance/deescalation etc) training to legally and effectively use one or more weapons systems and then carrying would be a really good idea. However if you just love to box then, cool. Box. Enjoy it. Boxing is friggin awesome. Don’t go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things and you shouldn’t need to defend yourself very often anyhow.

Also, if you don’t need to make weight, get bigger. A lot bigger.

14

[quote]Salpinx wrote:
Isn’t grappling hardly influenced by weight classes? Would it be a wise idea to grapple in a street situation? With concrete floor and the possibility of another one striking you from above it could be dangerous.
Im not being ironic I just have no idea about the subject and ask sincerely
[/quote]

Enlarge your thought of what it means to grapple. It doesn’t have to involve either of you doing shit on the ground.

If you grab a guy and throw him onto a concrete floor, you just grappled.

And, provided that you are quite a bit better than the other fellow at either judo or some form of wrestling, you probably won’t ever find yourself on the floor; you’d be nearly impossible to drop. You will be able to drop the other guy pretty much at will though.

And you can weigh 132lb and dominate opponents in grappling. You just have to get stronger relative to BW and learn how to apply proper leverage and balance.

15

Thanks for the reality touch. I was being short sighted about grappling and ground work.

I’ll strongly consider getting bigger and definitely will add grappling to my arsenal. I guess we can pretty much call it a thread. Any other opinion will be welcomed thought

16

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Well let’s look at things purely from a mathematical standpoint.

2x your current strength would be a 180 lb bench, 180<200 therefore you would still be unable to press one off (even if they were not stronger than you). 3x your current strength would be a 270 lb bench, 270>200 therefore you could just bench press a 200 lb man off of you. Tripling your bench is going to take you years, maybe even decades to achieve though, if you ever do.

Why wouldn’t you want to spend that time learning techniques and tactics from grappling which would allow you to do the same thing in much less time and even against bigger, stronger, and skilled opponents?
[/quote]

Sento, if a could pay you 10 US$ for every golden post you bless us with, i guess you would be able to afford a car.

17

Ok im 5"8 155lb (Small man also) if a 200lb dude wanted to fight me im prob going to walk/run away. Unless its not an option, its not likely your going to knock the guy out specially 70lbs lighter.

Learn BJJ get the guys back and choke that Giant out my hobbit friend.

Failing that pay hit man.

18

Marcelo Garcia is the nicest hobbit i know, take that Bilbo!

19

[quote]Pete86 wrote:
Ok im 5"8 155lb (Small man also) if a 200lb dude wanted to fight me im prob going to walk/run away. Unless its not an option, its not likely your going to knock the guy out specially 70lbs lighter.

Learn BJJ get the guys back and choke that Giant out my hobbit friend.

Failing that pay hit man.[/quote]

First I’d say to always try to walk/run away in a real fight unless it’s not an option. Sure, you might “win” a fight that’s about pride, but there is also a good chance you’ll wind up losing the ensuing legal battle that you are going to find yourself in if you accidentally hurt the other person or there are witnesses who can identify you as the assailant (fighting for pride is illegal and therefore you are just as guilty in the eyes of the law, even if you didn’t start it).

Second, while I agree that KO’ing a person 70 lbs larger than you (assuming you aren’t Buakaw, Pacquiao, or some other world class striker with great KO power) with a punch to the jaw might be easier said than done; thinking that you are going to tackle them to the ground and choke them out is also not the easiest thing to do (and might be an absolutely terrible idea if there are weapons or your opponent has friends nearby).

In reality you really need to know both striking and grappling (and weapons, “dirty fighting”, legal/moral use of force laws in your area, confrontational management, awareness training, and fear management skills if we really want to cover all the bases) to be best prepared to defend yourself in a real fight. A quick jab to the chin/nose or front kick to the groin makes taking someone down much easier and more likely against a much larger (and presumably stronger) opponent in a real fight. Likewise, being able to throw someone to the ground (without going down with them) makes kicking or punching them in the groin or head to facilitate escaping much easier.