Hopefully this will be a wake up call that no only does he need conditioning (which he recognizes) but he needs a real, world class, S&C trainer…not some high school buddy culled from the shores of Hawaii.
[quote]Fiction wrote:
Hopefully this will be a wake up call that no only does he need conditioning (which he recognizes) but he needs a real, world class, S&C trainer…not some high school buddy culled from the shores of Hawaii.[/quote]
I totally agree. Fact I pray that BJ does a complete training camp make-over. Does some soul searching to realize that even the most talented need to suffer daily in the gym. I’m not a big fan, but I surly do love watching the best of the best and BJ’s one of the best. He just needs to train harder, run the rock daily dude!
He didnt lose because of strength or conditioning. He was outclassed skill wise plain and simple.
[quote]drewh wrote:
He didnt lose because of strength or conditioning. He was outclassed skill wise plain and simple.[/quote]
Umm…he was outclassed in strength…conditioning…and skill.
[quote]drewh wrote:
He didnt lose because of strength or conditioning. He was outclassed skill wise plain and simple.[/quote]
Nope. Even GSP and Greg Jackson disagree with you. Read his postfight comments on his strategy. Georges used his size/strength to wear on him against the cage in the first round and first half of the second. By the time it hit the ground BJ was noticably winded.
If you have ever trained in BJJ or kickboxing or boxing or pretty much any sport you know that when you are fatigued your technique suffers dramatically. St Pierre is a technical marvel, don’t get me wrong, but to discount the large size, strength, and conditioning difference is ridiculous.
Although he isn’t BJ we’ll see how GSP handles a good technical fighter his own size (bigger actually) when he fights Alves. That will be a great fight.
[quote]Fiction wrote:
Hopefully this will be a wake up call that no only does he need conditioning (which he recognizes) but he needs a real, world class, S&C trainer…not some high school buddy culled from the shores of Hawaii.[/quote]
I totally agree. This fight really showed the difference of progression, skill wise, that both fighters have made the last 2 years. With BJ’s ability to learn a camp like Couture, Jackson’s, ATT, etc. would enable him to make vast improvements not only in conditioning but also in his skill set. Iron sharpens Iron as they say.
[quote]brand wrote:
Fiction wrote:
Hopefully this will be a wake up call that no only does he need conditioning (which he recognizes) but he needs a real, world class, S&C trainer…not some high school buddy culled from the shores of Hawaii.
I totally agree. This fight really showed the difference of progression, skill wise, that both fighters have made the last 2 years. With BJ’s ability to learn a camp like Couture, Jackson’s, ATT, etc. would enable him to make vast improvements not only in conditioning but also in his skill set. Iron sharpens Iron as they say. [/quote]
What makes me sad though…
BJ could have been the greatest ever. As it is he’s wasted the prime of his youth clearly not training up to his potential. Look how quickly he mastered boxing (I contend that he is still a better striker than GSP), he is absurdly good at BJJ (demonstrated in the fact that he was a BJJ world champ).
With his talents, he could have been a better sub artist than Aoki and a better striker than Silva, but he pissed around and will now content himself with being “pretty good”.
I think this loss will motivate him and he will go back to LW and be dominant for a very long time and maybe even change his ways, but he is 30 years old, most of his developing time is behind him, and he’ll never be the fighter he could have been.
[quote]Fiction wrote:
brand wrote:
Fiction wrote:
Hopefully this will be a wake up call that no only does he need conditioning (which he recognizes) but he needs a real, world class, S&C trainer…not some high school buddy culled from the shores of Hawaii.
I totally agree. This fight really showed the difference of progression, skill wise, that both fighters have made the last 2 years. With BJ’s ability to learn a camp like Couture, Jackson’s, ATT, etc. would enable him to make vast improvements not only in conditioning but also in his skill set. Iron sharpens Iron as they say.
What makes me sad though…
BJ could have been the greatest ever. As it is he’s wasted the prime of his youth clearly not training up to his potential. Look how quickly he mastered boxing (I contend that he is still a better striker than GSP), he is absurdly good at BJJ (demonstrated in the fact that he was a BJJ world champ).
With his talents, he could have been a better sub artist than Aoki and a better striker than Silva, but he pissed around and will now content himself with being “pretty good”.
I think this loss will motivate him and he will go back to LW and be dominant for a very long time and maybe even change his ways, but he is 30 years old, most of his developing time is behind him, and he’ll never be the fighter he could have been.[/quote]
I sadly have to agree with you.
Yeah wrestling is just about using your size and stregth. BJ was out clinched out wrestled and got out struck.
[quote]drewh wrote:
Yeah wrestling is just about using your size and stregth. BJ was out clinched out wrestled and got out struck.[/quote]
Could he take him down in the first round? Nope. Once he wore on him with his size and strength and he became fatigued then he took him down at will. Dude you are arguing with St. Pierre himself. He and Greg Jackson both said all this after the fight.
I’m not taking anything away from Georges as a bigger great fighter is always going to beat a smaller great fighter. I thought BJ could handle the size/strength difference but I was wrong. I didn’t think he would still gas after 2 rounds however.
Looks like someone called it exactly.
[quote]Xphobicas wrote:
GSP will TKO fat-ass Penn by the 4th round. Bj Penn can’t stop his take downs. Georges determines where this fight will take place. If Georges is not getting the better of the stand up, he will take him down at will, and ground and pound BJ’s burrito-eating ass till he he wears BJ out![/quote]
[quote]Fiction wrote:
brand wrote:
Fiction wrote:
Hopefully this will be a wake up call that no only does he need conditioning (which he recognizes) but he needs a real, world class, S&C trainer…not some high school buddy culled from the shores of Hawaii.
I totally agree. This fight really showed the difference of progression, skill wise, that both fighters have made the last 2 years. With BJ’s ability to learn a camp like Couture, Jackson’s, ATT, etc. would enable him to make vast improvements not only in conditioning but also in his skill set. Iron sharpens Iron as they say.
What makes me sad though…
BJ could have been the greatest ever. As it is he’s wasted the prime of his youth clearly not training up to his potential. Look how quickly he mastered boxing (I contend that he is still a better striker than GSP), he is absurdly good at BJJ (demonstrated in the fact that he was a BJJ world champ).
With his talents, he could have been a better sub artist than Aoki and a better striker than Silva, but he pissed around and will now content himself with being “pretty good”.
I think this loss will motivate him and he will go back to LW and be dominant for a very long time and maybe even change his ways, but he is 30 years old, most of his developing time is behind him, and he’ll never be the fighter he could have been.[/quote]
Yup, he’s got all the talent in the world, but not the work ethic, and at this point time is against him. Hopefully you’re right that he uses this to motivate him to get his shit together, and go find a good camp/mentor that can help him progress.
I’d have to disagree about him being a better striker though, GSP easily got the better of their striking exchanges. So, I don’t really know how you can say that.
In their first match-up I agree, BJ was the better striker. But, this time around GSP had learned a little something about striking strategy,the importance of doubling/tripling up his jabs, broken rhythm and feints, and attacking different levels of targets (going to the body as well as the head).
Anybody else read about the Vaseline dispute after round 1?
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Fiction wrote:
brand wrote:
Fiction wrote:
Hopefully this will be a wake up call that no only does he need conditioning (which he recognizes) but he needs a real, world class, S&C trainer…not some high school buddy culled from the shores of Hawaii.
I totally agree. This fight really showed the difference of progression, skill wise, that both fighters have made the last 2 years. With BJ’s ability to learn a camp like Couture, Jackson’s, ATT, etc. would enable him to make vast improvements not only in conditioning but also in his skill set. Iron sharpens Iron as they say.
What makes me sad though…
BJ could have been the greatest ever. As it is he’s wasted the prime of his youth clearly not training up to his potential. Look how quickly he mastered boxing (I contend that he is still a better striker than GSP), he is absurdly good at BJJ (demonstrated in the fact that he was a BJJ world champ).
With his talents, he could have been a better sub artist than Aoki and a better striker than Silva, but he pissed around and will now content himself with being “pretty good”.
I think this loss will motivate him and he will go back to LW and be dominant for a very long time and maybe even change his ways, but he is 30 years old, most of his developing time is behind him, and he’ll never be the fighter he could have been.
Yup, he’s got all the talent in the world, but not the work ethic, and at this point time is against him. Hopefully you’re right that he uses this to motivate him to get his shit together, and go find a good camp/mentor that can help him progress.
I’d have to disagree about him being a better striker though, GSP easily got the better of their striking exchanges. So, I don’t really know how you can say that.
In their first match-up I agree, BJ was the better striker. But, this time around GSP had learned a little something about striking strategy,the importance of doubling/tripling up his jabs, broken rhythm and feints, and attacking different levels of targets (going to the body as well as the head).[/quote]
He’s got plenty of time, he’s only 30, but I wouldn’t bet on it. He needs to go to a real camp and not train with buddies in Hilo its as simple as that. I wouldn’t count on it happening. That said I still don’t think anyone beats him at his weight class.
[quote]brand wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Fiction wrote:
brand wrote:
Fiction wrote:
Hopefully this will be a wake up call that no only does he need conditioning (which he recognizes) but he needs a real, world class, S&C trainer…not some high school buddy culled from the shores of Hawaii.
I totally agree. This fight really showed the difference of progression, skill wise, that both fighters have made the last 2 years. With BJ’s ability to learn a camp like Couture, Jackson’s, ATT, etc. would enable him to make vast improvements not only in conditioning but also in his skill set. Iron sharpens Iron as they say.
What makes me sad though…
BJ could have been the greatest ever. As it is he’s wasted the prime of his youth clearly not training up to his potential. Look how quickly he mastered boxing (I contend that he is still a better striker than GSP), he is absurdly good at BJJ (demonstrated in the fact that he was a BJJ world champ).
With his talents, he could have been a better sub artist than Aoki and a better striker than Silva, but he pissed around and will now content himself with being “pretty good”.
I think this loss will motivate him and he will go back to LW and be dominant for a very long time and maybe even change his ways, but he is 30 years old, most of his developing time is behind him, and he’ll never be the fighter he could have been.
Yup, he’s got all the talent in the world, but not the work ethic, and at this point time is against him. Hopefully you’re right that he uses this to motivate him to get his shit together, and go find a good camp/mentor that can help him progress.
I’d have to disagree about him being a better striker though, GSP easily got the better of their striking exchanges. So, I don’t really know how you can say that.
In their first match-up I agree, BJ was the better striker. But, this time around GSP had learned a little something about striking strategy,the importance of doubling/tripling up his jabs, broken rhythm and feints, and attacking different levels of targets (going to the body as well as the head).
He’s got plenty of time, he’s only 30, but I wouldn’t bet on it. He needs to go to a real camp and not train with buddies in Hilo its as simple as that. I wouldn’t count on it happening. That said I still don’t think anyone beats him at his weight class.
[/quote]
True, he’s still got time. But with each fight, and each training camp that he fails to do so, time becomes more and more his enemy in terms of ever reaching his potential.
I agree with you that I don’t see anyone at LW taking the belt from him. Florian is a very tough and very technical dude, but BJ is basically a better version of the same fighter.
Florian’s only real chance IMO is a ref stoppage from a cut due to his elbows (which he uses very well to cut people with). He’s not gonna KO BJ, I really don’t see him submitting BJ, and I think BJ will be at least his equal from a kickboxing standpoint.
Other than Florian, or possibly Sherk (if he goes and trains with someone who can teach him something about striking strategy), or maybe, possibly Frankie Edgar I don’t see anyone else (that I can think of anyhow) in that division giving BJ any problems whatsoever.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
I’d have to disagree about him being a better striker though, GSP easily got the better of their striking exchanges. So, I don’t really know how you can say that.
In their first match-up I agree, BJ was the better striker. But, this time around GSP had learned a little something about striking strategy,the importance of doubling/tripling up his jabs, broken rhythm and feints, and attacking different levels of targets (going to the body as well as the head).[/quote]
GSP pretty much conceded that Penn was the better boxer.
He and Greg Jackson intentionally made the first couple of rounds a wrestling match to cause his shoulder to freeze up and make BJ too tired to throw good shots.
does anybody know what was the ring entrance song of thiago silva? I liked it …
[quote]Fiction wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
I’d have to disagree about him being a better striker though, GSP easily got the better of their striking exchanges. So, I don’t really know how you can say that.
In their first match-up I agree, BJ was the better striker. But, this time around GSP had learned a little something about striking strategy,the importance of doubling/tripling up his jabs, broken rhythm and feints, and attacking different levels of targets (going to the body as well as the head).
GSP pretty much conceded that Penn was the better boxer.
He and Greg Jackson intentionally made the first couple of rounds a wrestling match to cause his shoulder to freeze up and make BJ too tired to throw good shots.[/quote]
No, he said that he thought Penn had faster hands, not necessarily a better boxer. The wrestling strategy was designed to slow Penn’s strikes down by tiring out his shoulders.
Still, even when Penn was fresh GSP got the better of him striking wise.
GSP’s use of feints, broken rythm, going to Penn’s body, doubling up his jabs and wrestling to tire BJ’s shoulders out was pretty much the perfect strategy for fighting a faster fighter.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Fiction wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
I’d have to disagree about him being a better striker though, GSP easily got the better of their striking exchanges. So, I don’t really know how you can say that.
In their first match-up I agree, BJ was the better striker. But, this time around GSP had learned a little something about striking strategy,the importance of doubling/tripling up his jabs, broken rhythm and feints, and attacking different levels of targets (going to the body as well as the head).
GSP pretty much conceded that Penn was the better boxer.
He and Greg Jackson intentionally made the first couple of rounds a wrestling match to cause his shoulder to freeze up and make BJ too tired to throw good shots.
No, he said that he thought Penn had faster hands, not necessarily a better boxer. The wrestling strategy was designed to slow Penn’s strikes down by tiring out his shoulders.
Still, even when Penn was fresh GSP got the better of him striking wise.
GSP’s use of feints, broken rythm, going to Penn’s body, doubling up his jabs and wrestling to tire BJ’s shoulders out was pretty much the perfect strategy for fighting a faster fighter. [/quote]
They didn’t really strike while they were fresh. A handful of punches before GSP went for a takedown and clinched up. It was a good strategy, no doubt, but Georges didn’t want to all out strike with him to start off the fight. He didn’t get the best of it when that happened in their first fight. That’s why its MMA though, not boxing.
[quote]brand wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Fiction wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
I’d have to disagree about him being a better striker though, GSP easily got the better of their striking exchanges. So, I don’t really know how you can say that.
In their first match-up I agree, BJ was the better striker. But, this time around GSP had learned a little something about striking strategy,the importance of doubling/tripling up his jabs, broken rhythm and feints, and attacking different levels of targets (going to the body as well as the head).
GSP pretty much conceded that Penn was the better boxer.
He and Greg Jackson intentionally made the first couple of rounds a wrestling match to cause his shoulder to freeze up and make BJ too tired to throw good shots.
No, he said that he thought Penn had faster hands, not necessarily a better boxer. The wrestling strategy was designed to slow Penn’s strikes down by tiring out his shoulders.
Still, even when Penn was fresh GSP got the better of him striking wise.
GSP’s use of feints, broken rythm, going to Penn’s body, doubling up his jabs and wrestling to tire BJ’s shoulders out was pretty much the perfect strategy for fighting a faster fighter.
They didn’t really strike while they were fresh. A handful of punches before GSP went for a takedown and clinched up. It was a good strategy, no doubt, but Georges didn’t want to all out strike with him to start off the fight. He didn’t get the best of it when that happened in their first fight. That’s why its MMA though, not boxing. [/quote]
exactly