[quote]GumsMagoo wrote:
One more week until BJ gets Arlovski’d!
[/quote]
Damn, that was funny. lol.
Overall, GSP will win it, I believe he wants to prove that the first fight between them was still his win and he will grind out a win again against BJ.
The man is ready.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Penn will lose. This is the biggest hyped mismatch in a long time.
Strength-GSP by a lot, the dude does chins with a 90lb. weight.
Stamina-GSP, you essentially have (one of)the worst vs (one of) the best when it comes to this category.
Ground Skills-Penn, but only be a little.
Striking-GSP (who also has the height and reach).
Mental toughness-Too close to call
Athletisism-GSP by a country mile.
GSP will win it’s only a matter of picking the round. I’ll say that Penn won’t see the third round. Those who want Penn…save your money.[/quote]
LOL, if it is such a shut out, how about this…I’ve never done an avatar bet, but if BJ wins you have to put an avatar of my design up. Vice versa if GSP wins.
I have the edge though because clearly you post more than me, so my victory will be more visible.
[quote]streamline wrote:
Now he’s just a waste of talent.[/quote]
LOL…that’s why he’s the champion of an extremely skilled division and consider AT LEAST in the top five pound for pound fighters in the world?
BJ may not be everything he could be, but he’s no waste of talent.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Interesting that you draw a comparison between the two based upon their previous fight…the one GSP won.[/quote]
Yes, by a few takedowns which inflicted no damage against a completely gassed and unconditioned Penn.
Penn beat the shit out of GSP in the fight directly preceding the Hughes fight.
There is no way that GSP will ground and pound Penn. Penn beat the fuck out of Hughes in the first round and then popped a rib as he twisted at the end of it, and got pounded out because he was in so much pain he would rather be hit in the face than take shots to his side.
Saying Matt GNPed him is like saying Coleman ACTUALLY won his first fight with Shogun.
The only way GSP wins is by decision via takedowns and position control.
More unabashed GSP nut huggery:
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
brand wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
Penn will lose. This is the biggest hyped mismatch in a long time.
Strength-GSP by a lot, the dude does chins with a 90lb. weight.
Stamina-GSP, you essentially have (one of)the worst vs (one of) the best when it comes to this category.
Ground Skills-Penn, but only be a little.
Striking-GSP (who also has the height and reach).
Mental toughness-Too close to call
Athletisism-GSP by a country mile.
GSP will win it’s only a matter of picking the round. I’ll say that Penn won’t see the third round. Those who want Penn…save your money.
It is far from a mismatch
Looks like 3 to 3 to me. Like I said earlier this is a very close fight.
Interesting that you draw a comparison between the two based upon their previous fight…the one GSP won. Anyway, GSP has improved greatly since that last fight, ask Matt Hughes.
For starters he’s not the same striker as he has focused a great deal of his training on boxing. He is at least Penn’s equal, and I say superior relative to striking. As far as the ground game, training with the best in the world has vastly improved this part of his game. will he tap out Penn with a submission? No, but he knows enough to stay out of trouble and could very easily ground and pound Penn just as Matt Huges did in their last fight.
All other advantages go to GSP. How does Penn take GSP’s title when he tires in the second round? All GSP has to do is go easy the first round and by the end of the second he will own Penn stamina wise then what? As the great Green Bay Packers Coach Vince Lombardi once said: “Fatigue makes cowards of us all”.
The UFC is hyping this fight for obvious reasons, but if you look closely it’s an obvious mismatch.
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I think you are hung up on the size/strength issue. I really do. As Fedor just proved last Saturday size and strength aren’t everything in MMA. BJ isn’t gassing in the second round this time out either.
If GSP does beat BJ, and that’s a big if, how do you see the fight with Thiago Alves going? Since we were talking measurables Thiago is bigger, has a better chin, hits harder, and doesn’t get taken down. That has bad news written all over it for Georges. Oh, and although I am rooting for BJ I wouldn’t be sad if Georges wins, and I would definately root for him against Alves. I just don’t see him beating both BJ and Thiago back to back.
When BJ loses he will no doubt have another excuse ready.
My guess is he’ll use the UFC primetime show, saying that the taping distracted him during training… blah, blah, blah.
Bj is a legend in his own mind.
[quote]GumsMagoo wrote:
When BJ loses he will no doubt have another excuse ready.
My guess is he’ll use the UFC primetime show, saying that the taping distracted him during training… blah, blah, blah.
Bj is a legend in his own mind.[/quote]
I’ve yet to hear BJ make excuses. If you have read his book, he talks about how all of his losses were well deserved. He doesn’t even fault his rib injury for his loss to Hughes.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
If GSP does beat BJ, and that’s a big if, how do you see the fight with Thiago Alves going? Since we were talking measurables Thiago is bigger, has a better chin, hits harder, and doesn’t get taken down.
Doesn’t get taken down? Go back and look at the Hughes fight. While Hughes looked bad he did take Alves down. With that said I think Alves has incredible potential, he’s a very explosive guy.
[/quote]
Briefly, but Hughes couldn’t hold him there. Koscheck on the other hand, probably the only guy with takedowns on par with Georges, couldn’t get him down. Don’t get me wrong, I would root for BJ or Georges in a fight with Thiago. I just think it is a bad matchup for Georges on paper. Georges boxing has come a long way though and it would be a great fight.
[quote]GumsMagoo wrote:
When BJ loses he will no doubt have another excuse ready.
My guess is he’ll use the UFC primetime show, saying that the taping distracted him during training… blah, blah, blah.
Bj is a legend in his own mind.[/quote]
Lots of fighters make excuses when they lose. GSP says he lost to Hughes the first time because he “gave him too much respect” and lost to Serra because he had problems in training before the fight. Initially he stated it was because he was injured and took the fight anyway. That is an excuse. BJ has admitted that a lack of conditioning cost him. That’s not an excuse. That’s an admission of poor preparation on his part.
[quote]Fiction wrote:
GumsMagoo wrote:
When BJ loses he will no doubt have another excuse ready.
My guess is he’ll use the UFC primetime show, saying that the taping distracted him during training… blah, blah, blah.
Bj is a legend in his own mind.
I’ve yet to hear BJ make excuses. If you have read his book, he talks about how all of his losses were well deserved. He doesn’t even fault his rib injury for his loss to Hughes.[/quote]
I think we are the only two on this board that think BJ will, or even can, win this fight.
It’s true that GSP’s fighting skills have gotten better since their last fight. But Penn’s stamina has also gotten better. He actually treats his conditioning seriously.
Penn submits GSP by rear naked choke in the 3rd round.
[quote]fnf wrote:
It’s true that GSP’s fighting skills have gotten better since their last fight. But Penn’s stamina has also gotten better. He actually treats his conditioning seriously.
Penn submits GSP by rear naked choke in the 3rd round.[/quote]
That’s all speculation though, as we have yet to see Penn in a full 5 round war since that point. Heck, he hasn’t even seen the 4th round, let alone the end of the 5th.
Since losing to GSP and Hughes, Penn has fought:
-Pulver, who then immediately dropped down to 145 upon realizing that he was too small to fight at 155 and hasn’t really done all that much there.
-Stevenson, who didn’t even look like he deserved to be in the ring with Penn (and Penn was still fairly winded at the end of that fight)
-Sherk, who had a piss poor game plan that basically played right into Penn’s strengths
In other words, no real challenges, no real tests of stamina (or skill for that matter).
If, and that’s a big if at this point, Penn actually came in in relatively similar shape to GSP, I would give him the advantage. But his history suggests that won’t be the case.
[quote]brand wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
If GSP does beat BJ, and that’s a big if, how do you see the fight with Thiago Alves going? Since we were talking measurables Thiago is bigger, has a better chin, hits harder, and doesn’t get taken down.
Doesn’t get taken down? Go back and look at the Hughes fight. While Hughes looked bad he did take Alves down. With that said I think Alves has incredible potential, he’s a very explosive guy.
Briefly, but Hughes couldn’t hold him there. Koscheck on the other hand, probably the only guy with takedowns on par with Georges, couldn’t get him down. Don’t get me wrong, I would root for BJ or Georges in a fight with Thiago. I just think it is a bad matchup for Georges on paper. Georges boxing has come a long way though and it would be a great fight. [/quote]
Koscheck’s takedowns were just basically diving at Alves’s feet in that fight though. He made no attempt to set them up with strikes, fakes, or really anything to draw Alves out of position before shooting in for the takedown. That’s why he was unsuccessful in his attempts to take Alves down.
GSP on the other hand is one of the best in the game at setting his takedowns up, that’s why he has such a ridiculously high percentage of successful takedown attempts.
Alves is definitely a dangerous opponent though and GSP is going to have to step it up yet another notch if he wants to keep the belt against him.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
brand wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
If GSP does beat BJ, and that’s a big if, how do you see the fight with Thiago Alves going? Since we were talking measurables Thiago is bigger, has a better chin, hits harder, and doesn’t get taken down.
Doesn’t get taken down? Go back and look at the Hughes fight. While Hughes looked bad he did take Alves down. With that said I think Alves has incredible potential, he’s a very explosive guy.
Briefly, but Hughes couldn’t hold him there. Koscheck on the other hand, probably the only guy with takedowns on par with Georges, couldn’t get him down. Don’t get me wrong, I would root for BJ or Georges in a fight with Thiago. I just think it is a bad matchup for Georges on paper. Georges boxing has come a long way though and it would be a great fight.
Koscheck’s takedowns were just basically diving at Alves’s feet in that fight though. He made no attempt to set them up with strikes, fakes, or really anything to draw Alves out of position before shooting in for the takedown. That’s why he was unsuccessful in his attempts to take Alves down.
GSP on the other hand is one of the best in the game at setting his takedowns up, that’s why he has such a ridiculously high percentage of successful takedown attempts.
Alves is definitely a dangerous opponent though and GSP is going to have to step it up yet another notch if he wants to keep the belt against him.[/quote]
Yeah, perhaps with more than 2 weeks notice Koscheck would have performed better. Good points.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
fnf wrote:
It’s true that GSP’s fighting skills have gotten better since their last fight. But Penn’s stamina has also gotten better. He actually treats his conditioning seriously.
Penn submits GSP by rear naked choke in the 3rd round.
That’s all speculation though, as we have yet to see Penn in a full 5 round war since that point. Heck, he hasn’t even seen the 4th round, let alone the end of the 5th.
Since losing to GSP and Hughes, Penn has fought:
-Pulver, who then immediately dropped down to 145 upon realizing that he was too small to fight at 155 and hasn’t really done all that much there.
-Stevenson, who didn’t even look like he deserved to be in the ring with Penn (and Penn was still fairly winded at the end of that fight)
-Sherk, who had a piss poor game plan that basically played right into Penn’s strengths
In other words, no real challenges, no real tests of stamina (or skill for that matter).
If, and that’s a big if at this point, Penn actually came in in relatively similar shape to GSP, I would give him the advantage. But his history suggests that won’t be the case.
[/quote]
Hmmmm. Some decent points, but I can play the same game with GSP’s level of competion since losing to Serra:
-He outpointed a very good Josh Koscheck in what was pretty much just a clinic in putting a wrestler on his back. He didn’t do any real damage. Pretty much just controlled him for 3 rounds. Oh, and he lost one of the rounds.
-He beat an aging Matt Hughes that is a shadow of his former self.
-He beat Serra, a guy most people wouldn’t put in the welterweight top 10.
-He beat a very hard working Jon Fitch, a guy that is pretty much tailor made to get beat by St. Pierre, who is a more athletic version of himself. Oh, and Fitch was coming off a victory he just barely pulled out against Chris Wilson (Who?).
BJ beats all those guys convincingly, and finishes most of them. Koscheck is the only one that I think would give him a run.
BJ will be in the best shape of his career I believe. Good enough shape to go 5 rounds with GSP? I doubt it, but BJ might finish him before that.
That’s the only thing everyone agrees with, he won’t be in good enough shape to go 5 rounds. BJ has to submit him in the 3rd, or I can see GSP taking the 4th and 5th decisively by takedowns.
[quote]brand wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
fnf wrote:
It’s true that GSP’s fighting skills have gotten better since their last fight. But Penn’s stamina has also gotten better. He actually treats his conditioning seriously.
Penn submits GSP by rear naked choke in the 3rd round.
That’s all speculation though, as we have yet to see Penn in a full 5 round war since that point. Heck, he hasn’t even seen the 4th round, let alone the end of the 5th.
Since losing to GSP and Hughes, Penn has fought:
-Pulver, who then immediately dropped down to 145 upon realizing that he was too small to fight at 155 and hasn’t really done all that much there.
-Stevenson, who didn’t even look like he deserved to be in the ring with Penn (and Penn was still fairly winded at the end of that fight)
-Sherk, who had a piss poor game plan that basically played right into Penn’s strengths
In other words, no real challenges, no real tests of stamina (or skill for that matter).
If, and that’s a big if at this point, Penn actually came in in relatively similar shape to GSP, I would give him the advantage. But his history suggests that won’t be the case.
Hmmmm. Some decent points, but I can play the same game with GSP’s level of competion since losing to Serra:
-He outpointed a very good Josh Koscheck in what was pretty much just a clinic in putting a wrestler on his back. He didn’t do any real damage. Pretty much just controlled him for 3 rounds. Oh, and he lost one of the rounds.
[/quote]
True, he didn’t finish Koscheck and won via points. What was impressive was how he beat him via points; by outwrestling him. That’s a pretty impressive accomplishment considering Koscheck’s wrestling record.
True, Hughes isn’t the fighter that he once was and age does seem to be catching up to him. The first win was after Hughes had just beat Penn though, and while GSP won, it was at least a fight. In the rubber match GSP had progressed to such an extent that he just completely manhandled Hughes. That just shows how much GSP has improved from his first fight with Penn.
Agreed. Though Serra did take Penn to a decision (albeit Penn won unanimously), while GSP completely clowned him in their second match-up.
But that fight did illustrate that GSP could go a full 5 rounds against another very highly conditioned and aggressive (pace pushing) opponent. Penn has yet to prove he can do the same. Fitch is also just tough as nails.
BJ lost to Hughes in their rematch, so I’m not so certain about him beating Hughes. Maybe, maybe not. I also think that fitch could give BJ some problems with his conditioning and toughness. If BJ could catch him in something early, yeah he’d win pretty handily. But if Fitch could take it deep into the second and third rounds, he’d probably burn BJ out with his pace.
[quote]
BJ will be in the best shape of his career I believe. Good enough shape to go 5 rounds with GSP? I doubt it, but BJ might finish him before that. [/quote]
I honestly hope he does come in in the best shape of his career. Not only would I love to see him actually patch up the weakness in his arsenal that is his conditioning and reach his true potential. But, that would mean he’d have no excuses if he lost to GSP, it would simply be that GSP is the better fighter. And if he won GSP would likewise have no excuses.
The only time that Penn comes in “fighting shape” is when he fights at 155.
To pack on 15 pounds of muscle and improve his cardio simultaneously in the short amount of time he’s had is just not happening.
Penn has even stated that he may come in at 165 so that he can keep his body fat low and cardio high.
If this is the case, he could be facing a well muscled GSP at 180-185 post weigh-in re-hydration. That’s a big deficit to overcome.