ppfff tell that to Nick Diaz.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Now if any of that were correct Penn would have won…and he didn’t.
But…I think next time he won’t underestimate people like GSP.
You think Penn has been reading the many “I love BJ” posts on the Internet and started believing he was as good as you guys claim?
I guess time will tell.
Penn beat Hughes
Hughes beat GSP
GSP beat Penn
And it keeps turning…
[/quote]
Oh my bad, you’re right Zeb and I’m wrong…thanks for showing me the error of my ways.
Ps-Penn doesn’t need anyone to sing his praises, but its not just internet jockeys such as myself-Matt Lindland, Greco-Roman silver medalist and realistically the only one the UFC had in the 185 lbs weight division that could have challenged Franklin for his belt, in addition to many other top MMA guys, do as well. Not that its any different with you harping all over Matt Hughes, but hey, you’re right, I’m wrong.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I don’t think so.
Penn clearly won the first round. Probably 3 or 4 really good strikes caused all the damage to GSP’s face.
Second round close but GSP won.
Third round when GSP picked up Penn and slmmed him to the ground was telling.
In all I think GSP took Penn down 5 times and he owned the ground.
What happened to Penns superior Jiu-Jitsu? (I say that not in a sarcastic way, I really expected Penn to be better on the ground, he was not!)
One more point, I don’t know who noticed but Penn was gassed after the first round! I think he came out strong because he was aware he was not able to go the distance. His mouth was open and he was looking at the clock in the third round as if by looking he could somehow make time go faster.
He underestimated GSP and it cost him!
Close fight as I said it would be and a good call by the judges.[/quote]
I agree, ZEB. I kept waiting for BJ to explode into something, but he never did.
One thing seemed clear (to me, anyway). Both fighters had a huge amount of respect for the other person’s skills. I think that’s why neither was in a rush to close out the deal (for fear of making a mistake).
Oh, and I can’t forget about Franklin. That dude is incredible. I can’t believe how well he recovered from those shots he took in the second round (I think it was the second round, anyway).
Both fighters showed some real heart, and it was cool to see how much respect each fighter had for the other.
Damn, that Franklin is one tough dude. And his conditioning is outstanding.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Now if any of that were correct Penn would have won…and he didn’t.
But…I think next time he won’t underestimate people like GSP.
You think Penn has been reading the many “I love BJ” posts on the Internet and started believing he was as good as you guys claim?
I guess time will tell.
Penn beat Hughes
Hughes beat GSP
GSP beat Penn
And it keeps turning…
Oh my bad, you’re right Zeb and I’m wrong…thanks for showing me the error of my ways.
Ps-Penn doesn’t need anyone to sing his praises, but its not just internet jockeys such as myself-Matt Lindland, Greco-Roman silver medalist and realistically the only one the UFC had in the 185 lbs weight division that could have challenged Franklin for his belt, in addition to many other top MMA guys, do as well. Not that its any different with you harping all over Matt Hughes, but hey, you’re right, I’m wrong.[/quote]
i think you are forgetting that murilo bustamante had his way with matt lindland
Hey Chad -
I was wondering if you caught UFC All-Access on Spike TV featuring Rich Franklin. If you did, what did you think of his lifting regimine? How would you personally train Rich?
Random thoughts:
Each round is scored separately and the scores are totaled. BJ won the first round, bloodied St. Pierre’s face, and got his 10 points. That doesn’t guarantee an automatic decision.
Maybe you could debate the scoring in round two, but I don’t understand the focus on the “damage category”. Tissue damage from round one doesn’t override the next two rounds.
I think it was Lindland who told BJ he won round two during the break. Maybe better advice would have been “Too close to call, make sure you dominate round three.”
Cecil Peoples had BJ 29-28. He’s notorious as an awful judge (and lousy ref as well).
Eddie Bravo, Matt Hughes, and Sherdog.com scored the fight the same as the other two judges.
[quote]elliot007 wrote:
i think you are forgetting that murilo bustamante had his way with matt lindland
[/quote]
bustamante caught lindland in a guillotine, which is probably my least favorite submission by the way, anybody can get caught in a submission on a given day, except maybe Fedor. Plus that fight was a few years back…Ufc 30 something I think?? I still believe Lindland would’ve laid the law down on Franklin, as he is the only one in that weight class with decent takedowns and if the Penn fight is any indication, that’s all that matters.
I think what you all overlook is the leg kicks GSP was using on BJ. Also, I’d like to know how many of the people bitching about the BJ/GSP decision had money on Penn. Focker out.
BJ Penn looked a little exhausted after the fight, I think he wasn’t totally spent but more so than GSP.
Penn does a good job of camoing his wear and intentions but was clearly dominated by GSP. GSP kept him pinned to the fence, pulled him down 3 times and slammed him once, as well as showing superior accuracy with his strikes. So what if he took 2 hits that did abnormal damage, he kept a gameplan and demonstrated why he has his following and its building.
Next: GSP over Hughes
Anyone know where you can get a Spike GSP shirt?
And I agree if Biotest is sponsoring him the shirts should say Biotest not just Spike as everyone I know confuses that with Spike TV.
JMO
Instead of simply talking about the decisions, how about actually posting them?
You know, for the people who didn’t actually see the event.
[quote]zdrax wrote:
Hey Chad -
I was wondering if you caught UFC All-Access on Spike TV featuring Rich Franklin. If you did, what did you think of his lifting regimine? How would you personally train Rich? [/quote]
The guy uses all machines, despite supposedly being trained by a PLer at a hardcore gym. Also, he supposedly trains for an hour straight without resting. That’s great for endurance, but he should be doing some interval work, too. And what he should REALLY be doing is multiple high rep sets of squats, not the leg press and leg extension machine.
For results of UFC 58…google it or go to the UFC website.
Here is a recent link that goes into details GSP’s life and regimine:
http://www.hour.ca/news/news.aspx?iIDArticle=8504
And an excerpt from it:
GSP - “Today I’m doing boxing in the morning, tonight I’ll do my sprints,” explains St-Pierre. “Tomorrow it’s jiu-jitsu in the morning, Olympic wrestling in the evening, and Friday it’s muy thai and then techniques or swimming in the evening, something like that. Every day I’ve got a routine that enables me to diversify my training. In this sport the most important thing is to be as complete a fighter as possible.”
[quote]Curtioso wrote:
BJ Penn looked a little exhausted after the fight, I think he wasn’t totally spent but more so than GSP.
Penn does a good job of camoing his wear and intentions but was clearly dominated by GSP. GSP kept him pinned to the fence, pulled him down 3 times and slammed him once, as well as showing superior accuracy with his strikes. So what if he took 2 hits that did abnormal damage, he kept a gameplan and demonstrated why he has his following and its building.
Next: GSP over Hughes
Anyone know where you can get a Spike GSP shirt?
And I agree if Biotest is sponsoring him the shirts should say Biotest not just Spike as everyone I know confuses that with Spike TV.
JMO[/quote]
Superior accuracy? He ate that left jab for the entire first round. It wasn’t the work of two punches that kept him opened up for the entire fight.
This is my last post on the subject because it really doesn’t matter what I think, Pierre got the decision and the UFC is not about to re-evaluate their scoring system because a guy who dominated their current champ, and whom they’ve had a legal battle with over the past two years, lost a close decision.
I understand the UFC’s scoring system, and I hate it. I didn’t like the way Diego Sanchez beat Diaz, and I think more credit should be given to a guy attempting subs than a guy who gets a takedown and sits on top. I really didn’t like the Riggs-Diaz decision either, but that is neither here nor there.
Round 1-obviously Penn’s, hands down.
Round 2-close, not enough was done by either fighter to claim this round.
Round 3-close again, but given to Pierre on the strength of his takedowns and the slam(which didn’t hurt Penn, and I thought was going to be much worse than it was.)
So we have 1 round that was clearly dominated by Penn, 1 that was pretty much a draw, and 1 that Pierre won by a close margin. On this, I think Penn should’ve won because he did more damage, and that alone should’ve swung Round 2 his way. That’s it, I like St Pierre, he is a class act and a polished fighter, but in an orginization called Ultimate Fighting Championship, you’d think damage would count for something…the only decision I’ve seen go to a guy who stayed on his back the entire fight was that last one Jeremy Horn pulled out, and I really don’t think he won that fight but had a little extra “help.”
[quote]zdrax wrote:
Hey Chad -
I was wondering if you caught UFC All-Access on Spike TV featuring Rich Franklin. If you did, what did you think of his lifting regimine? How would you personally train Rich? [/quote]
Not Chad here but I thought his ligting regime was really off from what an athlete like him should be doing… but I’m no expert!
[quote]slimjim wrote:
Curtioso wrote:
BJ Penn looked a little exhausted after the fight, I think he wasn’t totally spent but more so than GSP.
Penn does a good job of camoing his wear and intentions but was clearly dominated by GSP. GSP kept him pinned to the fence, pulled him down 3 times and slammed him once, as well as showing superior accuracy with his strikes. So what if he took 2 hits that did abnormal damage, he kept a gameplan and demonstrated why he has his following and its building.
Next: GSP over Hughes
Anyone know where you can get a Spike GSP shirt?
And I agree if Biotest is sponsoring him the shirts should say Biotest not just Spike as everyone I know confuses that with Spike TV.
JMO
Superior accuracy? He ate that left jab for the entire first round. It wasn’t the work of two punches that kept him opened up for the entire fight.
This is my last post on the subject because it really doesn’t matter what I think, Pierre got the decision and the UFC is not about to re-evaluate their scoring system because a guy who dominated their current champ, and whom they’ve had a legal battle with over the past two years, lost a close decision.
I understand the UFC’s scoring system, and I hate it. I didn’t like the way Diego Sanchez beat Diaz, and I think more credit should be given to a guy attempting subs than a guy who gets a takedown and sits on top. I really didn’t like the Riggs-Diaz decision either, but that is neither here nor there.
Round 1-obviously Penn’s, hands down.
Round 2-close, not enough was done by either fighter to claim this round.
Round 3-close again, but given to Pierre on the strength of his takedowns and the slam(which didn’t hurt Penn, and I thought was going to be much worse than it was.)
So we have 1 round that was clearly dominated by Penn, 1 that was pretty much a draw, and 1 that Pierre won by a close margin. On this, I think Penn should’ve won because he did more damage, and that alone should’ve swung Round 2 his way. That’s it, I like St Pierre, he is a class act and a polished fighter, but in an orginization called Ultimate Fighting Championship, you’d think damage would count for something…the only decision I’ve seen go to a guy who stayed on his back the entire fight was that last one Jeremy Horn pulled out, and I really don’t think he won that fight but had a little extra “help.”[/quote]
A few more thoughts:
I respect your opinion as it is clearly well thought out. I only want to add a few more thingsto this discussion.
Granted BJ came out and immediately hurt GSP with some very good shots early in round one. These punches took their toll in terms of facial bleeding etc.
However, after that what did Penn really do?
A fight cannot be awarded to a fighter because he got in three or four good punches when the rest of the time he did not show as well.
It’s not about who draws the most blood. It’s about who shows themselves to be the superior fighter that evening!
Also, I think for some reason Penn did not train properly for this fight. He just looked flat and a bit tired into the second round. I could be wrong, but I have seen him look much sharper in the past.
If he trains properly for this next fight I think you will see the old BJ Penn who is very formidable.
Lastly, It bothered me just a bit when I saw Penn coming out wearing his belt a shirt that said he was the champion, as he is clearly not the champion.
I know he didn’t get beat in the Octagon, but he did break a UFC rule on steroid usage. Whether you think that is a dumb rule is not the point. Walking into the ring like that was a classless act and while I was leaning toward GSP to win the fight, when I saw that I really did want Penn to lose.
I don’t like poor sports…never have.
For those asking about getting all 8 fights on the card. You don’t get all the fights on the card on PPV. You get 3 hrs of fights. If some of the fights end with fast KOs, they fill with undercard matches.
I have to say the GSP/Penn fight was a surprise to me. If you watch the fight it looks like Penn can avoid every strike GSP throws and can hit GSP almost at will. He also seemed to just coast and not give a shit after he bloodied GSP. I don’t even think it was that he gassed. I have to talk to some people in his camp to see what happened.
GSP had some nice takedowns and did enough in the judges eyes to take the fight. I can’t argue with that decision as the rules are. I can argue that BJ has amazing perception and evasion and very good hands. He also seems disinterested and I wonder if he needs emotion to be at his best. Against Hughes, Rodrigo and some others he was charged up and ready to dominate. Against Serra and some others he was not. He looked in this fight similar to when he fought Serra. He looked like he COULD do stuff at a lot of points but just flat out didn’t.
GSP fought well but was at his best for this and BJ looked at his worst and I think did more real damage to GSP. I just would love to know what was up with BJ. I truly think the right BJ beats anyone in the world at or even near his weight. I just hope he doesnt’ turn into an all potential guy like Vitor.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
It’s not about who draws the most blood. It’s about who shows themselves to be the superior fighter that evening!
Also, I think for some reason Penn did not train properly for this fight. He just looked flat and a bit tired into the second round. I could be wrong, but I have seen him look much sharper in the past.
Lastly, It bothered me just a bit when I saw Penn coming out wearing his belt a shirt that said he was the champion, as he is clearly not the champion.
I know he didn’t get beat in the Octagon, but he did break a UFC rule on steroid usage. Whether you think that is a dumb rule is not the point.
[/quote]
Many fans of sport fighting consider damage to be a major factor in fights that end in decision.
Penn’s conditioning did look off during the fight.
He beat Hughes, taking the belt in his final UFC contract fight. He then left for K-1, and the UFC settled to bring him back. Punching a cop and hijinks aside, the UFC wanted him and took him to court over it. You can argue that he is not the champ only in that the court ruled against Penn and said that the UFC owned the title. Like pro-wrasslin’, the UFC are the owners of the title and could therefore make Hughes the (interim?) champ again. Penn was the people’s champion (except for new fans who didn’t see the fight and think Hughes is god).
I’ve never heard of Penn testing positive for steroids in Japan. Feel free to enlighten me with a link, google has nothing.
Wow Rich Franklin is twice the badass i thought he was. Do you remember how he limped out? I heard he broke his ankle in the fight too! Holy crap!