[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
BUT more people are dying to see Silva vs. Belfort. That fight sells more,imo.[/quote]
I’d actually rather see that fight first, I think it will be a good one.
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Well then Mark Coleman was the best 205 pounder in 2006 according to your stupid logic. I mean he caused Shogun to break his arm right. [/quote]
Wow, do you drink stupid by the gallon? I never claimed that if someone caused damage to their opponent that they should be considered “great.” Show me where I said that one? Naturally you can’t. My point was a rebuttal to your inane logic claiming that the only reason Penn lost to Hughes was because Hughes broke Penns rib. LOL, naturally that’s the main reason Penn lost. But isn’t that what the game is all about? That’s what I was trying to pour in to your thick skull. When two fighters meet they try to inflict damage to the other one. If the first one is more successful (as was Hughes at the time) than the second one then naturally the first one will win. Isn’t that obvious?
Now if a fighter actually had an injury going into the fight as some claim that Silva had, then that is a good excuse to say that he wasn’t at his best, and could have done better. However, even with that said, I don’t think it shows class to stand there 2:00 after the fight and claim, or even insinuate that "the reason I didn’t perform well was _________fill in the blank. If the injury prevents you from applying your skills appropriately then the fight should be called off, and that has happened many times. Smart fighters call off fights when they are not 100%, or very close to it. GET IT YET?
Good, glad you’ve admitted it, that’s one thing out of the way.
Fat? Sure I’m fat, that really hurt kid.
Wow, there’s so much wrong with the above that I just don’t know where to begin. First of all, as soon as you enter the public domain you leave yourself open to criticism. By me, and others who actually understand mma. And unfortunately by low brow idiot kids like yourself, who do not have a clue, and most likely (even as they age) won’t have a clue.
I’ll just leave it right there for now junior. Now get to bed I’m sure you have summer school on Monday.
And some retard who started watching “ultimate fighting” because of Lesnar is going to tell me I know nothing about mma? We’re done here, go back to Sherdog chump.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
So Matt Hugehs broke his (Penn’s) rib and we’re supposed to feel badly for Penn? You’ve missed yet one more point (just like on the many other threads that you show up and pollute). You can’t blame losing on your opponent hurting you in the fight. Does that make sense? “The only reason I lost was because my opponent broke my nose and bent my arm back.” Duh. The idea is to try to win by over powering your opponent. In that process sometimes your opponent gets hurt. And that’s WHY you win.
As to Silva, maybe he had a rib injury going into the fight and maybe he didn’t. My point, which has escaped you, is that you don’t bring up something like that, whether it happened or not as it makes you look like a weeny. Certainly you can understand what it feels like to look like a weeny right?
Okay, off you go, time for you to dumb down another thread with your sophomoric reflections, and insignificant insights. Run along.[/quote]
I don’t quite care for BJ’s whining myself, and was suprised when the Edgar loss wasn’t met with excuses, but the Matt Hughes fight excuse was legitimate.
BJ went for a reversal in the 2nd round, attempting to take Matt’s back from the guard (believe he was successful, it was right before sliding off and catching him in the triangle armbar). The maneuver requires an exaggerated spreading of the arms, and he SEPARATED his rib in he process. To me, that is a good explanation for his performance in the 3rd; even adrenaline dumps don’t look like that. Still, he lost no one questions that.
They do question it in the Edgar fight. I gave 3-4 rounds to BJ, and could not see how he lost. Until the last round he landed the harder shots. Unfortunately for him:
A) Many of them came of counters (short rights as Frankie came in)
B) Frankie marked up his face and looked unscathed in the process
C) He could not match the active footwork of Edgar
D) He progressively gassed in the last 2 rounds and couldn’t snipe for a takedown (so he says)
If he had gotten the decision it would have been controversial but not on the level of a Machida/Shogun 1.
bj the whiner…when has he whined? after the first gsp decision which was close he said nothing,gave gsp props…his fans and others bitched…after the first jens pulver fight he congratulated pulver…after the 2nd hughes fight he congratulated hughes…after the edgar fight he said nothing about the decision…after the machida fight he said nothing, congratulated machida.
the rib injury only came up because people were bagging on his cardio, saying he had gassed…the doctors report that surfaced was only to quiet those critics, not to offer an excuse for the fight
the only one he openly complained about was the 2nd gsp fight. not exactly the strongest case for whining.
The one’s I remember are the two GSP fights. I think he did the rounds for the first saying he should have won on damage (correct me here, this was the first modern UFC I watched).
Of course, there was ‘greasegate’ which was blown out of proportion. For me, that alone puts him in the ‘whiner’ category, because of the sheer volume of publicity that was generated on something that, to me, was trivial (I’ve lost high guard because of sweat). He’s no Ricardo Arona or Tito Ortiz though, those guys have an excuse for EVERY loss.
In short, I think he’s a whiner, just not a very good one.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
The one’s I remember are the two GSP fights. I think he did the rounds for the first saying he should have won on damage (correct me here, this was the first modern UFC I watched).
Of course, there was ‘greasegate’ which was blown out of proportion. For me, that alone puts him in the ‘whiner’ category, because of the sheer volume of publicity that was generated on something that, to me, was trivial (I’ve lost high guard because of sweat). He’s no Ricardo Arona or Tito Ortiz though, those guys have an excuse for EVERY loss.
In short, I think he’s a whiner, just not a very good one.[/quote]
right after the first gsp fight, rogan interviewed bj in the ring and asked him if he disagreed with the decision, bjs words were along the lines of “no no, he did what he needed to do to win,” matt lindland, who was cornering bj for the fight, said soemthing into the mic like “are you kidding me look at [gsp]'s face”
grease gate makes him a whiner? i guess, if you think it’s ok that guys follow the rules they want to
I’m not disputing that GSP’s corner should have been penalized (did this even happen?). I’m disputing that it mattered.
The basis of BJ’s case was that the grease stifled his high guard. In my opinion the following contributed much more:
A) Excessive posturing from GSP
B) Excessive sweating from GSP
C) BJ having suffered a concussion
There were two occasions in the fight that I thought his argument held weight, but even then, Georges was posturing, so it wasn’t clear cut. The case generated a good amount of media attention, that as a fan, was painful to follow because it challenged the conclusiveness of the fight. I like closure, especially in an MMA fight.
I can understand the need to raise issue with the fact that officials weren’t monitoring corners or wiping down fighters, and I recognise that good came out of it, but the affair somewhat annoyed me.
So yes, I think BJ is a whiner until he can go another two fights conducting himself like he did in the Edgar fight, heh.
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
And some retard who started watching “ultimate fighting” because of Lesnar is going to tell me I know nothing about mma? We’re done here, go back to Sherdog chump.[/quote]
I’m not telling you that you know nothing about mma, you tell everyone who reads your posts every time that you post that you know nothing about mma. It’s your absolutely off the wall stupid comments that show you know nothing about mma. I already pointed out your latest treasure, I won’t bother to do it again.
You have a history of posting some very non consequential comments at best, and just outright stupid misinformed blather at worst. Just know that in order for anyone to give smart analysis regarding anything, from mma to politics, they first have to be smart. Now, like I said before junior run along, really, let’s not post to each other anymore.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
ZEB wrote:
So Matt Hugehs broke his (Penn’s) rib and we’re supposed to feel badly for Penn? You’ve missed yet one more point (just like on the many other threads that you show up and pollute). You can’t blame losing on your opponent hurting you in the fight. Does that make sense? “The only reason I lost was because my opponent broke my nose and bent my arm back.” Duh. The idea is to try to win by over powering your opponent. In that process sometimes your opponent gets hurt. And that’s WHY you win.
As to Silva, maybe he had a rib injury going into the fight and maybe he didn’t. My point, which has escaped you, is that you don’t bring up something like that, whether it happened or not as it makes you look like a weeny. Certainly you can understand what it feels like to look like a weeny right?
Okay, off you go, time for you to dumb down another thread with your sophomoric reflections, and insignificant insights. Run along.
I don’t quite care for BJ’s whining myself, and was suprised when the Edgar loss wasn’t met with excuses, but the Matt Hughes fight excuse was legitimate.
BJ went for a reversal in the 2nd round, attempting to take Matt’s back from the guard (believe he was successful, it was right before sliding off and catching him in the triangle armbar). The maneuver requires an exaggerated spreading of the arms, and he SEPARATED his rib in he process. To me, that is a good explanation for his performance in the 3rd; even adrenaline dumps don’t look like that. Still, he lost no one questions that.[/quote]
Whether it was exactly how you explained it, or it was one of Matt Hughes elbows, or a punch, kick etc., doesn’t really matter. When a fighter gets hurt in a fight and loses there are excuses to be made, none. He went in to the fight did his best and the other guy beat him.
It doesn’t matter if he tapped him out in the first round, knocked him out in the second round, or hurt him with something he did, or something stupid that the losing fighter did. Either way he went into the fight healthy and was injured during the fight and lost. No excuses. Simple right?
[quote]They do question it in the Edgar fight. I gave 3-4 rounds to BJ, and could not see how he lost. Until the last round he landed the harder shots. Unfortunately for him:
A) Many of them came of counters (short rights as Frankie came in)
B) Frankie marked up his face and looked unscathed in the process
C) He could not match the active footwork of Edgar
D) He progressively gassed in the last 2 rounds and couldn’t snipe for a takedown (so he says)
If he had gotten the decision it would have been controversial but not on the level of a Machida/Shogun 1.
[/quote]
Yea, I can see how you would call it as you did. I have not liked plenty of decisions that have been made by the judges. You’ve mentioned one, Machida/Shogun. But, how about Bisping/Hammill? There are others as well, I guess that’s the fight game. Opinions may very and it’s best to take your opponent out if at all possible.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
bj the whiner…when has he whined? after the first gsp decision which was close he said nothing,gave gsp props…his fans and others bitched…after the first jens pulver fight he congratulated pulver…after the 2nd hughes fight he congratulated hughes…after the edgar fight he said nothing about the decision…after the machida fight he said nothing, congratulated machida.
the rib injury only came up because people were bagging on his cardio, saying he had gassed…the doctors report that surfaced was only to quiet those critics, not to offer an excuse for the fight
the only one he openly complained about was the 2nd gsp fight. not exactly the strongest case for whining.[/quote]
I guess it would depend on how the rib was broken right? As I’ve said repeatedly, if it was broken during the fight, which seems to be the case he had nothing to whine about, but we still had to hear that’s why he lost. Psst, who cares? You went in healthy got your rib broken and lost. That is what fighting is all about, trying to score damage on your opponent.
And he did whine for weeks about GSP being oiled up, which was shear nonsense. In fact, I think they filed an official complaint on that one. As if GSP has to oil up to beat BJ Penn, that’s pretty funny stuff to me. He made himself look like an ass with that one.
Also, I don’t like Penn for other reasons. He went into several big fights out of shape and that can speak to only one thing: laziness. I mean, this his career and his life, he has immense talent (one of the best) and he comes into fights and gasses in the 2nd or 3rd round? I have no respect for that sort of thing.
I can see why you, or anyone would be a Penn fan, he has great hands and his ground game is probably one of the best in the UFC.
So yea, between the whining and the shear laziness, after Bisping, Penn is my least favorite fighter.
Sonnen vs Silva was interesting.
Good fight- I did think Silva looked off -and lacked his usually fluid movement
Sonnen does not stop
and Silva is tough tough tough
Sonnen needs to work on some BJJ basics-
while relentless
he does leave his limbs at risk in guard I think that is fatigue,
you can see earlier in the rounds he is better at posturing and
keeping his arms/torso clear.
Dos Santos- ok Ill take some of the hype please.
Roy- I don’t think he could ever make light heavy.
Hughes- I guess power is the last to go
could not catch a stream of Fitch vs Alves.
BJ Penn- do people forget how he embarrassed Hughes in the first fight
or that he took the second fight at short noticed when GSP was injured
lots of things affect fights.
Im sure we will see more things that affected Silva - during this fight
as they unfold
I dont think he is a whiner , I do think the shit talk leading up to the
GSP II fight was unattractive the following grease gate did plenty of damage
Im glad Brock made his way into this thread too.
For the most part I have to agree with zeb… I honestly would love to see a rematch between sonnen and silva. I truly dislike silvas attitude… and his comments at the end made my views of him even worse. Making excuses like that just shows a lack of respect for your opponent and for yourself… you shouldn’t see it at the amateur level of sports let alone the professional.
I have to say I was severly dissapointed. I was just over what, a minute away from having a new MW champ, one who trash talks better than anyone. A guy who Brings it, 100% every fight. Silva may be a very talented striker and BJJ practitioner, but he wrestling is weak. Also his attitude is weak. The past couple of fights of his actually made me angry at times due to his antics and lack of “fighting” the other guy.
After Sonnen finished up the 3rd round, I literally stood up and yelled at the TV, Go ahead and dance around for the final 2 rounds now Silva.
Anyways, I was sick to my stomach when I saw the Submission go in. I didn’t want to believe he tapped. I was like, WTF is the ref doing, He’s fucking this whole thing up. However after watching the replay 25 times, he did tap. Like someone else said, I think he immediatly regretted it, I think he could have survived the round.
The one thing I will say, Silva showed a great chin, and he didn’t stop fighting the entire time. Pillow hands or not, Sonnen hit him with some HARD punches and elbows in the GNP. I actually thought he was out during one of the earlier GNP’s.
Anyways, I HOPE Sonnen doesn’t retire, I am pretty sure thats just dissapointment talking. Besides stand up, I’m not sure if he’d be good at anything else anyways.
Rest of the card was pretty good. I’m really glad Stomach Tattoo lost. Seriously bro? Huge Stomach Tat? I hope that was after a weeklong binger on Tequila.
V
LOL @ stomach tattoo comment.
Struve looked like he was getting owned & fatlipped huge but came back in pretty spectacular fashion.
Gotta love the Skyscraper.
[quote]Vegita wrote:
The one thing I will say, Silva showed a great chin, and he didn’t stop fighting the entire time. Pillow hands or not, Sonnen hit him with some HARD punches and elbows in the GNP. I actually thought he was out during one of the earlier GNP’s.[/quote]
Heh I don’t really watch UFC and no that’s not to sound like a dick, I just don’t. But by sheer luck, I just finished watching the whole of UFC 117 right now.
It is kind of interesting to finally watch the fighters who all you lot talk about so… all I can say is that for a guy who received 95 percent of the fight’s blows, Silva always appeared composed - maybe not in control, but composed.
He seems like the champ. As hard as that is for some people to swallow!
Really ? Sonnen talked of retirement?
I really hope not too. I will admit I never paid much attention to him before this fight - but I was really impressed. Not even Dan Henderson brought the fight to Anderson like Sonnen did.
I’d love to see a rematch.
Silva didn’t have many moments in the fight - but he landed some nice shots on the feet a couple of times and a few nice kicks (there was atleast one moment I thought Sonnen was gonna go down). He had some nasty elbows from the bottom too.
I’d be really interested to see the outcome if a proclaimed healthier Silva fought Sonnen again. But that also gives hope that Sonnen could improve his game and maybe win by TKO by ground and pound.
I’d much rather see Sonnen vs. Silva 2 than Silva vs. Belfort.
Why does Belfort deserve a title shot after one of the weirdest TKO victories ever over Rich Franklin? I still think those replays of Franklin being barely grazed by Belfort… but knocked down have an air of fishiness about them. One fight doesn’t deserve a title shot, IMO. Even if it was over Ace.
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
Really ? Sonnen talked of retirement?
I really hope not too. I will admit I never paid much attention to him before this fight - but I was really impressed. Not even Dan Henderson brought the fight to Anderson like Sonnen did.
I’d love to see a rematch.
Silva didn’t have many moments in the fight - but he landed some nice shots on the feet a couple of times and a few nice kicks (there was atleast one moment I thought Sonnen was gonna go down). He had some nasty elbows from the bottom too.
I’d be really interested to see the outcome if a proclaimed healthier Silva fought Sonnen again. But that also gives hope that Sonnen could improve his game and maybe win by TKO by ground and pound.
I’d much rather see Sonnen vs. Silva 2 than Silva vs. Belfort.
Why does Belfort deserve a title shot after one of the weirdest TKO victories ever over Rich Franklin? I still think those replays of Franklin being barely grazed by Belfort… but knocked down have an air of fishiness about them. One fight doesn’t deserve a title shot, IMO. Even if it was over Ace.
[/quote]
Belfort has not even won a single MW bout in the UFC. He obviously deserves a title shot dood.
I don’t think Sonnen is going to get an instant rematch though. He will have to probably get 2 fights, or at least one in before another title shot.
V
[quote]slimjim wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I give a lot of credit to Anderson Silva for hanging in there and fighting back to win. He proved himself a real champion last night. He took a tremendous beating for about 4 1/2 rounds. However, if nothing else comes from this I hope that the Silva hype comes down a notch. He’s far from an mma God. He’s no more invulnerable than Brock Lesnar, GSP and the rest of the UFC Champs (and of course Fedor, as we’ve seen). They can all be beaten on the right night by the right fighter. Just ask BJ Penn who Rogan used to tout as the “gifted one, the prodigy.” I really hate the hype that those in and around the UFC give to certain fighters. They get all the impressionable kids to believe that nonsense.
As to those thinking that GSP is going to fight Silva, don’t hold your breath, I don’t believe that it will happen. It would be a bad fight for GSP as he would be giving away too much size, height and natural weight. But, I would love to see another Sonnen/Silva fight. If anyone deserves a rematch it’s Sonnen. That might happen, what does everyone else think?[/quote]
i dont know that sonnen deserves a rematch. he fought a good fight, no doubt, and the rest of the division is kind of in limbo given silva’s run through it
and why do you always got to bag on bj? he was jobbed in that last decision - check the compubox numbers and start watching the fights with the sound off…the judges in that fight scored it horrendously and rewarded edgar for fighting like it was an olympic boxing match when it was for the ufc title (really, who gave edgar the 50-45 scorecard?) and it kills me that your dislike for bj comes from his ‘being cocky’ given that one of the guy you love to talk about is hughes - ive met both guys, hughes is truly cocky, whatever caused you to perceive bj as arrogant was either an act or a misread.
i too laugh at the notion of gsp diving for doubles on silva. say what you guys want about what youve heard about gsps wrestling, he does not want to make that bump up in weight to face silva…have we forgotten already the lesson gsp taught bj about size advantage? [/quote]
See I had BJ winning that fight as well, didn’t seem to be much complaint from anyone at the time though.
Anyone saying Vitor doesn’t deserve a shot has a short memory (I am biased though as I am a huge Vitor fan) I can’t see a need for an immediate Sonnen rematch though given that he lost decisively.
He has 5 wins in a row and just beat Rich Franklin and Matt Lindland, sounds good to me. IMO Sonnen should fight Wanderlei or Leben next. If Paul Harris beats Nate I say give him the next shot.