UFC Fight Night 14: Silva vs. Irvin

[quote]Quinnthology wrote:
I agree that this is more appealing than the Affliction event but I still want to see Fedor rumble. Initially I thought Wandy would be fighting in this event but I guess not. Anyways good to see Anderson step up.[/quote]

Why? Silva runs the risk of fucking up his record with a loss to a mediocre light heavyweight, just because Dana is a piece of shit and wants to press out the competition from other companies. I don’t mind Silva moving up, but if he does risk it, it should because he wants to challenge a top LHW legend or champ. Wanderlei Silva would be a great matchup. And he should do it because he want to, not because Dana does.

This is what will happen: Causal MMA fans considering buying the card on PPV or going to a sports bar to watch the Affliction card instead stay in and watch the free show on Spike because it promises “The Top Pound for Pound Fighter in the World” moving up in weightclass. This will draw the important sales away (the noobs) and then Affliction will have spent an enormous amount of money on this card which will only deliver to a mediocre level. Noobs will always take what is free by someone they know has a good reputation. They’ll read about the Fedor fight tomorrow on the internet.

There was an interview only about a week ago of Dana saying that he didn’t like fighters moving around in weightclass and he wanted Silva to stay where he was. I think he just realized that this Affliction card will actually pose a legit threat, especially if they continue to put together solid cards.

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
The hard core fans will still watch the Affliction card no matter what.[/quote]

Hardcore fans don’t matter. It is the causal fans that sell shows. EliteXC showed that clearly. If knowledge of the sport was a little more mainstream, then it wouldn’t matter, but as of now, a lot of people don’t know marquee names (or care) unless they’re heavily marketed ahead of time.

[quote]Naphta wrote:
The great thing about wikipedia is anybody in the world can put up anything… so you know you’re getting good information.[/quote]

The great thing about Wikipedia is that it is self-moderating, and watched by people who care about the particular topics. It also has numerous studies supporting its reliability compared with contemporary encyclopedias.

[quote]Fiction wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
The hard core fans will still watch the Affliction card no matter what.

Hardcore fans don’t matter. It is the causal fans that sell shows. EliteXC showed that clearly. If knowledge of the sport was a little more mainstream, then it wouldn’t matter, but as of now, a lot of people don’t know marquee names (or care) unless they’re heavily marketed ahead of time.

[/quote]

I’m not sure why you only quoted this part of my post, and not the rest where I put this into context, but no shit. The point is that the UFC has nothing to gain with rushing this card into play, because they get the audience that pays the bills no matter what. In doing so they only validate Affliction as a competitor to them which is something they have avoided with all other promotions.

[quote]Fiction wrote:

Naphta wrote:
The great thing about wikipedia is anybody in the world can put up anything… so you know you’re getting good information.

The great thing about Wikipedia is that it is self-moderating, and watched by people who care about the particular topics. It also has numerous studies supporting its reliability compared with contemporary encyclopedias.[/quote]

I only try to spread joy…

[quote]Fiction wrote:
Quinnthology wrote:
I agree that this is more appealing than the Affliction event but I still want to see Fedor rumble. Initially I thought Wandy would be fighting in this event but I guess not. Anyways good to see Anderson step up.

Why? Silva runs the risk of fucking up his record with a loss to a mediocre light heavyweight, just because Dana is a piece of shit and wants to press out the competition from other companies. I don’t mind Silva moving up, but if he does risk it, it should because he wants to challenge a top LHW legend or champ. Wanderlei Silva would be a great matchup. And he should do it because he want to, not because Dana does.[/quote]

Well initially the rumor was that Spider was going to move up and fight Chuck, but that isn’t any option because of the Evans fight. I hate Dana as much as anyone else, but the fact of that matter is that the middleweight division in the UFC is absolutely shit and Spider has wrecked it… Leben, Ace, Lutter, Henderson, Marquardt. He had to move somewhere or someone had to come to him.

GSP is probably waiting for BJ and Bisping is too much of a pussy to risk another loss on his record. Filho needs to come to the UFC. In the meantime I like the move by Spider and once he wins this fight he will have some tough ass competition in the stacked light heavyweight div

[quote]
Quinnthology wrote:
I agree that this is more appealing than the Affliction event but I still want to see Fedor rumble. Initially I thought Wandy would be fighting in this event but I guess not. Anyways good to see Anderson step up.

Fiction wrote:
Why? Silva runs the risk of fucking up his record with a loss to a mediocre light heavyweight, just because Dana is a piece of shit and wants to press out the competition from other companies. I don’t mind Silva moving up, but if he does risk it, it should because he wants to challenge a top LHW legend or champ. Wanderlei Silva would be a great matchup. And he should do it because he want to, not because Dana does.

Quinnthology wrote:
Well initially the rumor was that Spider was going to move up and fight Chuck, but that isn’t any option because of the Evans fight. I hate Dana as much as anyone else, but the fact of that matter is that the middleweight division in the UFC is absolutely shit and Spider has wrecked it… Leben, Ace, Lutter, Henderson, Marquardt. He had to move somewhere or someone had to come to him.

GSP is probably waiting for BJ and Bisping is too much of a pussy to risk another loss on his record. Filho needs to come to the UFC. In the meantime I like the move by Spider and once he wins this fight he will have some tough ass competition in the stacked light heavyweight div[/quote]

I don’t think this card even compares to the Affliction card. But don’t listen to me since I’m going to miss both due to traveling that day! I need to be really nice to friends to make sure they record it for me.

I do agree with you Quinn that it’s good to see Spider moving up to face competition. I like him facing Irvin, there’s always a chance he losses, but you have to give a fighter an easier match every once in awhile.

As for the current middleweight division, unless Wandy moves down, I’m only interested in seeing a Spider/Marquardt rematch, since Filho will only fight Spider if they make him (can’t blame friends for not wanting to fight each other). I don’t think Bisbing would really pose any threat to Spider so I’m not that interested in seeing it.

From the way they are talking, it appears that this is only a one off fight at 205 for Anderson for the time being. Ed Soares still seems to think Silva/Okami will happen at UFC 88. I personally am interested in that fight. Okami is a damn good fighter, just a slow starter. In a 5 round match he can be dangerous. Also, remember that Ricardo Almeida is back in the mix, and with 2 or so good wins is a viable title contendor.

[quote]Quinnthology wrote:
Well initially the rumor was that Spider was going to move up and fight Chuck, but that isn’t any option because of the Evans fight. I hate Dana as much as anyone else, but the fact of that matter is that the middleweight division in the UFC is absolutely shit and Spider has wrecked it… Leben, Ace, Lutter, Henderson, Marquardt. He had to move somewhere or someone had to come to him. [/quote]

But why the fuck Irvin? He is a .500 fighter. If he is going to risk it, it may as well be against a name. I don’t think he ought to make a business out of fighting at LHW. I don’t mind a few forays out into the division, but if he fights after this it should be a title fight. There is no sense in dabbling in there.

Silva would lose a lot of status if he was a dominant 185 champ and just an off-and-on fighter at LHW. And I guarantee if he hangs around that that weightclass, he will lose. He doesn’t cut any weight for 185 as it is.

IMO Silva should beat Okami, Henderson should beat Okami, and then Silva and Henderson should have a rematch. I think Dan just had a bad night that night and could do much better.

[quote]Fiction wrote:
Quinnthology wrote:
Well initially the rumor was that Spider was going to move up and fight Chuck, but that isn’t any option because of the Evans fight. I hate Dana as much as anyone else, but the fact of that matter is that the middleweight division in the UFC is absolutely shit and Spider has wrecked it… Leben, Ace, Lutter, Henderson, Marquardt. He had to move somewhere or someone had to come to him.

But why the fuck Irvin? He is a .500 fighter. If he is going to risk it, it may as well be against a name. I don’t think he ought to make a business out of fighting at LHW. I don’t mind a few forays out into the division, but if he fights after this it should be a title fight. There is no sense in dabbling in there.

Silva would lose a lot of status if he was a dominant 185 champ and just an off-and-on fighter at LHW. And I guarantee if he hangs around that that weightclass, he will lose. He doesn’t cut any weight for 185 as it is.

IMO Silva should beat Okami, Henderson should beat Okami, and then Silva and Henderson should have a rematch. I think Dan just had a bad night that night and could do much better.[/quote]

How would he lose status by fighting at 205? The guy pretty much ran out of competition at his weight class so he’s looking play the field. If anything, that makes you that much more respectable in my book, vs just sitting around waiting for the UFC to throw another tool your way to dominate.

I don’t remember all the details of their first fight, but I think Okami was giving Anderson a good run for his money(until Anderson up-kicked his face off). I think that would be an excellent fight.

If Hendo and Silva have a rematch, Dan needs to make a habit out of what he did in the first round of their first fight, take downs and elbow the shit out of Anderson’s head. Most guys, I would say Dan would do fine on his feet, but Anderson Silva? Anderson bounces around the cage like Willam Shatner on Family Guy. Dan catching him with a big right is a crap shoot.

[quote]analog_kid wrote:
Fiction wrote:
Quinnthology wrote:
Well initially the rumor was that Spider was going to move up and fight Chuck, but that isn’t any option because of the Evans fight. I hate Dana as much as anyone else, but the fact of that matter is that the middleweight division in the UFC is absolutely shit and Spider has wrecked it… Leben, Ace, Lutter, Henderson, Marquardt. He had to move somewhere or someone had to come to him.

But why the fuck Irvin? He is a .500 fighter. If he is going to risk it, it may as well be against a name. I don’t think he ought to make a business out of fighting at LHW. I don’t mind a few forays out into the division, but if he fights after this it should be a title fight. There is no sense in dabbling in there.

Silva would lose a lot of status if he was a dominant 185 champ and just an off-and-on fighter at LHW. And I guarantee if he hangs around that that weightclass, he will lose. He doesn’t cut any weight for 185 as it is.

IMO Silva should beat Okami, Henderson should beat Okami, and then Silva and Henderson should have a rematch. I think Dan just had a bad night that night and could do much better.

How would he lose status by fighting at 205? The guy pretty much ran out of competition at his weight class so he’s looking play the field. If anything, that makes you that much more respectable in my book, vs just sitting around waiting for the UFC to throw another tool your way to dominate.

I don’t remember all the details of their first fight, but I think Okami was giving Anderson a good run for his money(until Anderson up-kicked his face off). I think that would be an excellent fight.

If Hendo and Silva have a rematch, Dan needs to make a habit out of what he did in the first round of their first fight, take downs and elbow the shit out of Anderson’s head. Most guys, I would say Dan would do fine on his feet, but Anderson Silva? Anderson bounces around the cage like Willam Shatner on Family Guy. Dan catching him with a big right is a crap shoot.
[/quote]

I forgot about Okami, I am looking forward to that fight, not just because Okami is talented, but because it’s a fight Silva really wants!

I also don’t see how Silva would lose “status” if he lost at 205. BJ has lost in every weight class there is and every time he loses he becomes more of a God in status!

I guess it’s just perception. Some would rather a fighter “stay perfect”, I just want to see great fighters perform. To each his own.

I am seriously concerned for Irvin. I think this could be a career ender for him and think he shouldn’t have taken the fight.

[quote]analog_kid wrote:
How would he lose status by fighting at 205? The guy pretty much ran out of competition at his weight class so he’s looking play the field. If anything, that makes you that much more respectable in my book, vs just sitting around waiting for the UFC to throw another tool your way to dominate.

I don’t remember all the details of their first fight, but I think Okami was giving Anderson a good run for his money(until Anderson up-kicked his face off). I think that would be an excellent fight.

If Hendo and Silva have a rematch, Dan needs to make a habit out of what he did in the first round of their first fight, take downs and elbow the shit out of Anderson’s head. Most guys, I would say Dan would do fine on his feet, but Anderson Silva? Anderson bounces around the cage like Willam Shatner on Family Guy. Dan catching him with a big right is a crap shoot.
[/quote]

I agree that Henderson and Okami should fight to determine who gets a shot at Spider. Okami was rolling his way to a title shot before his loss to Franklin but other than that his UFC record merits a shot at Spider after one more big win (a reminder of the first match: - YouTube

I think it’s irrelevant whether or not Spider will lose status if he floats around .500 in LHW, because I don’t think he will let it happen. If I remember correctly Dana was against this move up in weight, but it was something he really wanted to do to test himself. He’ll take a few fights and if he is 1-2 or 2-2 he will probably stop fighting in LHW.

Everything aside, I would really enjoy a Henderson rematch. Henderson can stand with a lot of people but like you said, Silva is just a phenomenal striker. I realize that he also does BJJ but I think Hendo can control him on the ground.

Okami’s way of doing that failed miserably because he just tried to fall into his guard. Hendo on the other hand is a very aggressive wrestler with great takedowns who likes to land in side control and not a desperate guard.

[quote]Quinnthology wrote:

I agree that Henderson and Okami should fight to determine who gets a shot at Spider. Okami was rolling his way to a title shot before his loss to Franklin but other than that his UFC record merits a shot at Spider after one more big win (a reminder of the first match: - YouTube

Everything aside, I would really enjoy a Henderson rematch. Henderson can stand with a lot of people but like you said, Silva is just a phenomenal striker. I realize that he also does BJJ but I think Hendo can control him on the ground. [/quote]

If they were to set it up that way, I think we will get to see the Hendo-Silva rematch sooner than expected. I personally don’t think that Okami can beat Hendo, especially after having two losses in a row. I would like to see a Hendo-Franklin match as well, but I also think that Rich would get his ass kicked and place him in “gatekeeper” status for the rest of his career.

[quote]Quinnthology wrote:
He’ll take a few fights and if he is 1-2 or 2-2 he will probably stop fighting in LHW. [/quote]

He’d also lose his p4p status. You become recognized as the p4p best either by dominating your division and sticking with it, or winning in your division and then moving up to beat the champ of the next weight class ala BJ Penn.

To the guy who said that people still worship BJ even though he sucked it up at heavier weight classes was because he was obviously training below his potential. If people can explain away your failures they will. Silva has no such excuse.

Silva is a fighter and loves to fight. He absolutely wrecked all the top guys at 185lbs so it makes sense to move to LHW. Irvin is an interesting choice. It isn’t the fight I would have picked but I am guessing they are giving him a mid-level guy to start out with at LHW. If he runs through Irvin he’ll get a top 205’er, no doubt. Silva has already said he won’t fight Filho, and who cares anyway. Filho has looked like shit since leaving Pride and was getting wrecked by Sonnen until that arm bar. I don’t see Filho beating Henderson, Franklin, or Marquardt at this point, let alone Silva.

[quote]Fiction wrote:

He’d also lose his p4p status. You become recognized as the p4p best either by dominating your division and sticking with it, or winning in your division and then moving up to beat the champ of the next weight class ala BJ Penn.

To the guy who said that people still worship BJ even though he sucked it up at heavier weight classes was because he was obviously training below his potential. If people can explain away your failures they will. Silva has no such excuse.[/quote]

C’mon.

I know “anybody can get caught” and frankly Irvin’s flying knee on Martin is one of my favorite KO’s ever (although Martin was tremendously cocky in going straight for the takedown after the start and pretty much deserved it), but I am more than willing to slap both hands down on the table and say there is NOT a chance Silva will lose this fight.

In fact, this may chalk up to being one of the most brutal beatings in UFC history. I just hope they have a good ref and Irvin doesn’t get his face caved in in the clinch.

Knowing Irvin’s luck he will be lucky to even make it to the cage without some sort of horrific freak injury occuring.

What about Patrick Cote at 185?

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
C’mon.

I know “anybody can get caught” and frankly Irvin’s flying knee on Martin is one of my favorite KO’s ever (although Martin was tremendously cocky in going straight for the takedown after the start and pretty much deserved it), but I am more than willing to slap both hands down on the table and say there is NOT a chance Silva will lose this fight.

In fact, this may chalk up to being one of the most brutal beatings in UFC history. I just hope they have a good ref and Irvin doesn’t get his face caved in in the clinch.[/quote]

I don’t think you really appreciate how much of a factor size and strength are. Twenty pounds is an enormous amount of weight, particularly since I’m pretty sure Silva doesn’t cut at all. Irvin might not be as technical as Silva, but with a large size and strength advantage, he can power out of the clinch and subs better, control stand up grappling and takedowns, absorb much more damage, and even punch that glances or hits Silva’s cover can do serious damage.

Frankly, I doubt Silva will even be able to clinch well with Irvin.

[quote]Fiction wrote:

I don’t think you really appreciate how much of a factor size and strength are. Twenty pounds is an enormous amount of weight, particularly since I’m pretty sure Silva doesn’t cut at all. Irvin might not be as technical as Silva, but with a large size and strength advantage, he can power out of the clinch and subs better, control stand up grappling and takedowns, absorb much more damage, and even punch that glances or hits Silva’s cover can do serious damage.

Frankly, I doubt Silva will even be able to clinch well with Irvin.[/quote]

Silva walks around at 212.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/josh_gross/06/18/anderson.silva/?eref=sircrc

Irvin has some pretty decent power and can mix up his strikes, I think this could be a brawl.