UFC 82: Hendo vs Silva

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Anderson Silva vs Dan Henderson may be the singlest greatest 185 fight in the sports history. Both have long legacies of fighting all around the world. You have a former Shooto champ, Cage Rage champion, UFC champ, and almost unanimous number one pound for pound fighter in the world; versus a UFC tournament champion, Pride MW champion, Pride LHW champion, and Pride tournament champion, and Rings fighter. Unfortunately, the cosmic clash of brilliant resumes has went relatively unnoticed in the wake of Lesnar/Mir hype.

Part of it has to do with the UFC’s inability to build up people who don’t come in with great deal of public notoriety (like Lesnar) or participate on their reality TV programming. Part of it is that both Henderson and Silva are quiet, respectful, hard working fighters who don’t go looking for the spotlight or trash talk their opponents. You probably couldn’t find two nicer guys in MMA.

But hardcore fans all know that this is a dream fight of the highest caliber. As for my thoughts on the fight, I’ll spare you further rambling and get to the point. Either guy can win this fight. So I don’t think anyone can make a bad choice, or make a definitive choice. I have to pick though, and I am hesitantly standing behind Anderson Silva in this fight.

First, I think that Hendo was forced into this weight class. He has asserted for the past two years that he wants to fight at 205 because he despises the cut to 185. His last three fights have been at 205, and he has bulked up considerably during that time. Before the move up, his last few fights at 185 were rather lackluster performances for “Decision Dan”, a name he earned for his plodding pace as the fights went long and seeming lack of energy to finish opponents. At 205, Dan had the crackle and electricity that made him famous, and was peddle to the metal the whole fight. Whether that was from newfound motivation, or a result of not cutting, is up for debate.

Secondly, most will point to Dan’s brilliant greco-roman background and ability to clinch wrestle as the reason for a win over Anderson. However, I think that Dan has fallen in love with stand up fighting and should no longer be considered a wrestling based fighter. When push comes to shove, Dan no longer falls back to his wrestling, but relies on a big right hand from the outside. No matter what his gameplan, if Anderson pushes Dan hard at the start and doesn’t fall right into his strategy, I see Hendo trying to bang from the outside and getting nuked by Silva. Whether Anderson can finish is tough to say, but I will call a UD for Anderson. A late 3rd-4th round TKO wouldn’t shock me.

Your thoughts?

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[quote]Donut62 wrote:

Your thoughts? [/quote]

that’s a really long post, too much to read :wink:

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Actually, I see a late finish in favor of Hendo. I think he’ll try and bang with Silva for the first round, and quickly realize that it’s a really bad idea. He’ll then spend rounds 2 and 3 using his wrestling and some ground and pound. Silva hasn’t seen too many late rounds. I think Hendo will win in the 4th or 5th round by GnP TKO, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it went to a decision.

Hendo pushed Jackson to his limits, despite it being his first cage fight and being at a very noticeable size disadvantage. One of his punches in that fight would have knocked out most fighters, but Jackson has an excellent chin.

I think the fight will be really close. Hendo just isn’t SLOW the way Franklin is. He’s like Franklin with better wrestling and much more speed, and probably a better chin.

4

[quote]Higher Game wrote:
Actually, I see a late finish in favor of Hendo. I think he’ll try and bang with Silva for the first round, and quickly realize that it’s a really bad idea. He’ll then spend rounds 2 and 3 using his wrestling and some ground and pound. Silva hasn’t seen too many late rounds. I think Hendo will win in the 4th or 5th round by GnP TKO, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it went to a decision.

Hendo pushed Jackson to his limits, despite it being his first cage fight and being at a very noticeable size disadvantage. One of his punches in that fight would have knocked out most fighters, but Jackson has an excellent chin.

I think the fight will be really close. Hendo just isn’t SLOW the way Franklin is. He’s like Franklin with better wrestling and much more speed, and probably a better chin.[/quote]

I must point out though, that you are talking about LHW Dan Henderson. To me they are two distinct fighters. At MW he got out slicked in the stand up by Misaki.

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Fight should be amazing, that said

Standing: Advantage Silva.

Hendo can land a big bomb obviously, its mma anything can happen but statistically silva is the better striker his accuracy is obscene. his natural body length is deceptive and he’s a lot bigger/musclar than you assume. for those of you that can find it reference his sparring with big nog silva isn’t a skinny twat, he’s a fairly thick dude. remember he fights at 185 but walks around closer to 205

Clinch: Advantage Silva

what can hendo really hope for in the clinch? To take silva down? Thats his best case scenario. Silva’s best case scenario in the clinch is knocking dan out and finishing the fight.

Ground Game: Advantage Silva

Both of Dan’s losses on the ground come from the man that taught silva his ground game Big Nog (the nogueria brothers). Again, dan’s best hope is to hold silva down and punish him to a decision… Silva’s best case scenario is a sub that finishes the fight.

Overall Toughness/Experience… Advantage Hendo

for obvious reasons, he’s seen everything and weathered every storm he’s never faced anyone like Silva imo. But Silva has yet to face anyone with the sheer tenacity of Hendo.

This is going to be very very interest

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I haven’t seen that much of Hendo but Silva of late is incredible. Silva and it won’ be close.

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I think it’s damn close, and too tough to really call with any confidence. My mind tells me that Silva might have a SLIGHT edge, just because he’s such a great all-around striker (with fists, feet, knees and elbows), combined with his longer reach, which might make his striking game tough to stop.

But Henderson’s a tough mutherfucker, can flatten anyone if he lands that right hand properly, and I think he’s strong enough and has good enough wrestling to control Silva on the ground fairly well and do damage to him on the ground if he gets him there.

Close fight, and though my mind says Anderson might have the edge, Henderson is the slight underdog as per the odds-makers, so I think I’m going to put a few hundred on Hendo. :slight_smile:

8

I have not been this excited for a fight in a loong time. The whole card is decent.

You gotta like Hendo, but I don’t see him pulling this off. His Greco background has certainly been anticipated by the Silva camp and I am sure they will effectively nutralize that if he choses to use it.

I think Silva is at his prime right now and short of an unforseen knock-out I just don’t see it going any other way than Silva. I will call Silva by TKO early in the 2nd.

What makes this week even better is I am going to Foo tomorrow night and one of my sons has his state wrestling tournament Sunday.

This is a great week.

9

All I can say is I’m very excited for this fight and glad that the UFC finally made what I consider to be a good decision.

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[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Anderson Silva vs Dan Henderson may be the singlest greatest 185 fight in the sports history. Both have long legacies of fighting all around the world. You have a former Shooto champ, Cage Rage champion, UFC champ, and almost unanimous number one pound for pound fighter in the world; versus a UFC tournament champion, Pride MW champion, Pride LHW champion, and Pride tournament champion, and Rings fighter. Unfortunately, the cosmic clash of brilliant resumes has went relatively unnoticed in the wake of Lesnar/Mir hype.

Part of it has to do with the UFC’s inability to build up people who don’t come in with great deal of public notoriety (like Lesnar) or participate on their reality TV programming. Part of it is that both Henderson and Silva are quiet, respectful, hard working fighters who don’t go looking for the spotlight or trash talk their opponents. You probably couldn’t find two nicer guys in MMA.

But hardcore fans all know that this is a dream fight of the highest caliber. As for my thoughts on the fight, I’ll spare you further rambling and get to the point. Either guy can win this fight. So I don’t think anyone can make a bad choice, or make a definitive choice. I have to pick though, and I am hesitantly standing behind Anderson Silva in this fight.

First, I think that Hendo was forced into this weight class. He has asserted for the past two years that he wants to fight at 205 because he despises the cut to 185. His last three fights have been at 205, and he has bulked up considerably during that time. Before the move up, his last few fights at 185 were rather lackluster performances for “Decision Dan”, a name he earned for his plodding pace as the fights went long and seeming lack of energy to finish opponents. At 205, Dan had the crackle and electricity that made him famous, and was peddle to the metal the whole fight. Whether that was from newfound motivation, or a result of not cutting, is up for debate.

Secondly, most will point to Dan’s brilliant greco-roman background and ability to clinch wrestle as the reason for a win over Anderson. However, I think that Dan has fallen in love with stand up fighting and should no longer be considered a wrestling based fighter. When push comes to shove, Dan no longer falls back to his wrestling, but relies on a big right hand from the outside. No matter what his gameplan, if Anderson pushes Dan hard at the start and doesn’t fall right into his strategy, I see Hendo trying to bang from the outside and getting nuked by Silva. Whether Anderson can finish is tough to say, but I will call a UD for Anderson. A late 3rd-4th round TKO wouldn’t shock me.

Your thoughts? [/quote]

I agree with you that it’s a tough one to call. Silva has phenomenal striking accuracy, is elusive, and has decent submission skills.

But, I really don’t see him being able to finish the fight. Rampage couldn’t KO Hendo, so I seriously doubt that Silva will be able to either. If Hendo can get Silva to stand toe to toe with him I see him winning this fight.

As for the clinch, it will be interesting to see if Dan utilizes it in this fight. Silva loves the Muay Thai Clinch and those devastating knees, so it’s not going to be easy even on the inside for Dan. But I just don’t think that Silva will be able to handle Dan’s Greco from the clinch if he chooses to utilize it. I’m sure he’s trained to defend against it, but it’s pretty tough to find opponent’s of Dan’s caliber to train with.

Once on the ground it’s a tough call. Silva is very long limbed and can pull off some techniques that many people cannot (once again it’s tough to find opponent’s of Silva’s dimensions and skills to train with). It’s true that Big Nog beat Dan, but he also had a definitive size advantage. And while Silva is no slouch, I also wouldn’t put him in the same category as Big Nog in terms of JJ skills. My prediction is that Silva will simply try weather the storm and wrestle his way back to his feet (unless perhaps he sees an obvious opportunity).

What will be interesting to see is what Silva will do if Hendo proves to have the advantage in the stand-up game. In other words, does Silva have enough skills in other ranges to handle a superior striker?

Hopefully the fight will live up to our expectations and we will get to see a healthy and hunger Hendo vs. Silva match that also hopefully goes into the later rounds.

11

If Hendo gets inside I definitely seeing him giving Silva all sorts of problems. People say Silva will control the clinch. Against an olympic level Greco wrestler?? I’m not so sure. If it gets to that range i see Hendo roughing him up or at least giving as good as he gets. Given Anderson’s fairly poor takedown defence i also see him getting put on his back a hell of a lot. Can Dan keep him there?

Hendo has also been sparring with Cyril Diabate which is an excellent choice, given that he is a very similar style and build to Silva.

The big question for me is if Hendo can really bring it at 185.

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^^^^^^ Beat me to it!

I think a few things we should consider is silvas clinch will be largley neutralized by Hendo’s greco. Also I think Silva uses the Clinch to terrify his opponents and force them into either eating a knee or backing out and getting pounded. I don’t see him being able to do this to hendo.

I think Hendo strength will claerly outmatch Silva who is long and nimble but strikes with speed and accuracy not raw power. Hendo should easily take him down and pound him out. Either that or he will bull him in the clinch and silva won’t be throwing knees unless he wants to get slammed.

I’m going hendo all the way here.

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[quote]Vegita wrote:
^^^^^^ Beat me to it!

I think a few things we should consider is silvas clinch will be largley neutralized by Hendo’s greco. Also I think Silva uses the Clinch to terrify his opponents and force them into either eating a knee or backing out and getting pounded. I don’t see him being able to do this to hendo.

I think Hendo strength will claerly outmatch Silva who is long and nimble but strikes with speed and accuracy not raw power. Hendo should easily take him down and pound him out. Either that or he will bull him in the clinch and silva won’t be throwing knees unless he wants to get slammed.

I’m going hendo all the way here. [/quote]

Hmmm. Very interesting points although having spent some time dabbling in Greco my thoughts are that one is not in a position of strength in a Muay Thai clinch to assert Greco skills. They are better utilized during a sloppy take down attempt or when somebody has you against the cage with underhooks, etc. Having said that I have very limited experience in Muai Thai other than watching.

Reading your post gave me an adrenaline response, though. I am pumped for this fight.

How would you compare Hendo’s strength to Franklin?

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^^This is whats going to happen when dan struggles to land his big right hand

The thai clinch is very similar to greco in a lot of ways, its not just two hands behind the neck. in plum you move through all sorts of positions that utilize trip falls, underhooks, bicep ties, etc all similar to greco.

Everyone has tried to bullrush silva and out muscle him in the clinch and all that ends up doing is getting you knee’d in the grill.

Thai clinch style is designed for guys who want to rush and muscle around.

That said, greco clinch isn’t necessarily about being “strong” either but when was the last time you’ve seen dan really use his clinch skills.

go ahead, i’ll wait.

…

Anyway, Silva’s clinch is much more of a factor than you’re anticipating even if dan shows up with the clinch game we know he has.

Again as i said previously what is dan’s best case scenario in the clinch?

neutralize silva and take him down.

Silva’s best case scenario seems to always be a FINISH to the fight. Not a decision but an actual finish! If it does come to a decision he’d still end up looking better because he’d probably be looking to end the fight each round.

I dont even see how hendo can close the range with him if silva doesn’t allow it.

Dan can get him down, thats obvious… dan isn’t bringing all that much more than chris leben standing, he just has better wrestling credentials.

so ok, dan can take him down… this isn’t ultimate takedown fighting championship… so what if he takes silva down?

If it goes to the ground Dan is probably getting subbed.

the edge dan has is experience and toughness… thats really about it.

though apparently im going to be the first to eat crow if he does land the big right hand, that thing could take down galactus

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350×525 30 KB

Let me look into my crystal ball and show you the outcome of the fight…

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^^^That is such an amazing gif, Xen. I was live for that fight, and have never seen anyone move so effortlessly in an MMA match as Anderson does.

I think a lot of people here are underestimating Silva’s strength as well. Dan might be able to get the upper hand with his clinch, but if he foes it will have to come from superb technique, because nobody is going to muscle Anderson around without catching a hard one right in the grill.

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[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
when was the last time you’ve seen dan really use his clinch skills.

go ahead, i’ll wait.
[/quote]

I actually think he used it quite effectively in the first round of his fight with Rampage. Sure, he didn’t stick to that game plan and Rampage wound up beating him, but that’s the last time I remember him putting his clinch skills to good use.

Can’t really argue with much of the rest of this, though I disagree with Dan not bringing all that much more than Chris Leban standing. Who has Chris Leben ko’d? Who has Dan ko’d? No, he’s not as pretty of a striker as Silva (honestly I don’t think anyone in MMA is). But come on, Chris Leben?

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Silva by TKO in the 2nd. Then again it could go to Hendo. Silva might take it, though.

…although it could also go to Hendo.

-dizzle

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Hendo may very well be Silva’s kryptonite. He beat Wanderlei who also has an incredible muy thai clench.

Henderson TKO (Ground and pound) 2nd.

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[quote]Chewie wrote:
Hendo may very well be Silva’s kryptonite.[/quote]

I guess a good question is, if Hendo can’t beat him, who the fuck can?