[quote]KBCThird wrote:
slimjim wrote:
If he and Chuck were to fight, I’d bet they’d stand there looking at each other for 3 rounds straight.
This phrase gets overused a lot on the internet, but I did laugh out loud at the thought of machida and chuck each waiting for hte other to do soemthing that they could counter[/quote]
Actually, a Chuck/ machida fight happened, you’d see the first time opponents backed into each other!
[quote]fnf wrote:
The only reason I can think of why Sherk would not attempt to take BJ down was his own fear of being in BJ’s world, the ground game. I know Sherk has a great ground and pound game, but there’s no one who has BJ’s jits skill combined with freaky flexibility.
Also, I was wondering where was the Sherk I’ve seen in numerous training videos throwing a good combination followed by an explosive takedown?
[/quote]
I don’t think that was it. Sherk needed to establish his striking so he could set up a takedown. BJ is hard to take down and shooting in from outside without any offense would make it even harder. BJ’s jab was just working too well. You need a right hand counter for a jab. But BJ has such a straight right hand that he would beat Sherk to the punch. Which would make a right hand counter by Sherk ineffective. Sherk just could not pull the trigger.
I don’t think there is any shame for Sherk. BJ was just perfect. The credit goes to BJ for just shutting Sherk down. Everybody can say why Sherk didn’t do so and so but BJ made it that way.
I think they need someone who can kick to beat Machida. Though there are not many mma guys who are brilliant kickers. Somebody who can kick in combination, like a lead leg low kick, teep, right low, right body kick, then swing, swing and swing some more. Or some crazy shit like teep, then back foot front kick to the face , left low. Somebody who can engage from a distance, then to come in. Step off to their left and just kick up(just swing it up there at a 45 degree angle) into Machida’s right leg. Like Sam Greco did in their fight. So somebody with a Kyokushin or Dutch kickboxing background. Also somebody who can throw alot volume and is willing to miss ALOT and look foolish for long parts of the fight.
Or they can just shrink the Octagon if they want Machida to lose.
Sherks strategy was not to stand initially, he tried a single early in the fight and BJ flung him off like he wasnt even there. it was due to necessity that he tried to stand for a while
I think Sherk is a guy who is smart in the cage and knows the game well. Because of that he knew that this matchup was difficult for him. It was a quandry to decide where to take the fight. Like you occasionally see with a wrestler, they have the ability to put the fight where they want, but not necessarily the ability to do anything there. I think Sherk knew that BJ would put him in bad positions on the ground early (a la his fights with Hughes), so he thought he’d wear him down first and then overwhelm him (a la Hughes II). I agree that he should have def changed up the game much earlier because he was losing, but if you get in the cage you’ll know that its so hard sometimes to see what’s happening as its happening. That’s where you need your corner to be honest with you and give good advice. Fighters have to be very confident folks, and I think Sherk truly believed he was getting the better of it standing and his corner wasn’t telling him different. Tough spot.
Great card overall.I understand how Lyoto’s style frustrates certain fans but he still outstruck tito and tito wasn’t exactly trying to win the fight either.
1
I fucking love Machida. He is the Pernell Whitaker of MMA. I find it absolutely hilarious that some regular looking random karate guy from Brazil makes all these jacked up well trained look the part fighters absolutely clueless as to what to do in the ring.
Good knee
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
I fucking love Machida. He is the Pernell Whitaker of MMA. I find it absolutely hilarious that some regular looking random karate guy from Brazil makes all these jacked up well trained look the part fighters absolutely clueless as to what to do in the ring.[/quote]
it is his sumo/bjj background that allows him to keep the fight standing. he is far more than a karate guy. we are starting to see the end of one dimensional fighters. it has been going this way for a while, but all the champs are very well rounded. if i had to rank qualities from strongest to weakest (but still existing)
bj= bjj/wrestling/boxing
gsp=wrestling/bjj/karate
spider silva=muay thai/bjj
rampage=wrestling/boxing/bjj
minotauro=bjj/boxing
[quote]elliot007 wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
I fucking love Machida. He is the Pernell Whitaker of MMA. I find it absolutely hilarious that some regular looking random karate guy from Brazil makes all these jacked up well trained look the part fighters absolutely clueless as to what to do in the ring.
it is his sumo/bjj background that allows him to keep the fight standing. he is far more than a karate guy. we are starting to see the end of one dimensional fighters. it has been going this way for a while, but all the champs are very well rounded. if i had to rank qualities from strongest to weakest (but still existing)
bj= bjj/wrestling/boxing
gsp=wrestling/bjj/karate
spider silva=muay thai/bjj
rampage=wrestling/boxing/bjj
minotauro=bjj/boxing[/quote]
His background is straight up karate. He has been doing that since he was a kid. Of course he trains the bjj and all the other things you have to do for mma. Still I think to say it isn’t the karate is just trying to ignore what is so obvious: guys can’t handle the karate.
The basics of mma seem to be bjj, wrestling, muay thai and boxing. Still once in awhile a guy around with a different background and then guys are confused when they fight him. Karo with his judo, Machida with his Shotokan, GSP with some Kyokushin.
Sam Greco did not have much trouble standing with Machida, Sam Greco is a long time Kyokushin guy. While Shotokan and Kyokushin are different you do run into guys who fight like Machida.
I also don’t think there are many guys who have good enough kickboxing skills to cancel out Machida. Anderson Silva, Manhoef, Crocop. Maybe that Goran will be something special.
[quote]otoko wrote:
His background is straight up karate. He has been doing that since he was a kid. Of course he trains the bjj and all the other things you have to do for mma. Still I think to say it isn’t the karate is just trying to ignore what is so obvious: guys can’t handle the karate.
[/quote]
Straight up karate my ass, he has been doing sumo since he was a kid and training Bjj with de la riva since he was 15.
His karate is not what is stopping people from taking him down, it is his Sumo. his Sumo is what allows him to get his strikes off, just like chuck liddells strong background in wrestling is what allows him to not be taken down
and how did machida beat greco? with his wrestling and bjj
[quote]elliot007 wrote:
otoko wrote:
His background is straight up karate. He has been doing that since he was a kid. Of course he trains the bjj and all the other things you have to do for mma. Still I think to say it isn’t the karate is just trying to ignore what is so obvious: guys can’t handle the karate.
Straight up karate my ass, he has been doing sumo since he was a kid and training Bjj with de la riva since he was 15.
His karate is not what is stopping people from taking him down, it is his Sumo. his Sumo is what allows him to get his strikes off, just like chuck liddells strong background in wrestling is what allows him to not be taken down
Sam Greco did not have much trouble standing with Machida, Sam Greco is a long time Kyokushin guy. While Shotokan and Kyokushin are different you do run into guys who fight like Machida.
and how did machida beat greco? with his wrestling and bjj[/quote]
I was speaking in striking terms. Sure karate your ass. I don’t know what you are so worked up about.
In Japan it is common to make kids do sumo even in karate and judo. Just as a game of course. I kind of find it hard to see how sumo would allow one me to get my strikes off. The most dominant position in Sumo is when you have both hands gripped tightly on your opponents belt, with one hand on the back of your opponents belt. With guys looking to come into each other to force the other out. The tachiai or initial face off where the wrestlers slam into each other is the other very important aspect of sumo. If you are slow off the line or come in weak you will be slammed back. Which is different than freestyle wrestling. And still different form Greco Roman and Judo.
Maybe you know alot more than me about utilizing sumo to get off your strikes for mma. I don’t know that much about sumo, I just did it in judo once in awhile and I watch it on tv.
As far as striking goes since I am not good at wrestling or bjj I think guys are not used to what Machida brings. Greco did not seem to be confused or frustrated standing. Greco did lose because Machida has better grappling and bjj. That is true. I don’t dispute that. You don’t see much muay thai, kickboxing, boxing in Machida’s striking. If all I trained was kickboxing and boxing and all my sparring was the same I would think Machida’s karate would throw me off.
[quote]
elliot007 wrote:
Straight up karate my ass, he has been doing sumo since he was a kid
otoko wrote:
Maybe you know alot more than me about utilizing sumo to get off your strikes for mma. I don’t know that much about sumo, I just did it in judo once in awhile and I watch it on tv. [/quote]
Wow that’s ackward…
[quote]No-Gi wrote:
elliot007 wrote:
Straight up karate my ass, he has been doing sumo since he was a kid
otoko wrote:
Maybe you know alot more than me about utilizing sumo to get off your strikes for mma. I don’t know that much about sumo, I just did it in judo once in awhile and I watch it on tv.
Wow that’s ackward…
[/quote]
haha…
anywa here is some “real sumo”:
[quote]Chad Waterbury wrote:
This was one of the best UFC cards in years.
Machida has all the tools to be the next Fedor. He’s very poised and relaxed, but explosive and lightning fast. He’s one of the few guys who can close the distance and strike in the time it takes his opponent to load up a kick. And he’s incredibly skilled at creating leverage.
If he gets rid of some of his flamboyant moves, there’s no limit to what Machida can accomplish.
[/quote]
That’s a bold statement, but hard to argue that Machida doesn’t have this type of potential.
I can absolutely see him owning the LHW division for many years. I really enjoy watching him fight; very technical.
Otoko,
If you watch Machida’s fights with Soku and Tito, you’ll see that he has fantastic balance in the clinch. This is saving him from getting taken down
I dont deny at all that is base art is karate, and that it is to this day his striking style. I was simply pointing out that he was training all ranges of fighting longer than most people have been training anything
[quote]Djwlfpack wrote:
Chad Waterbury wrote:
This was one of the best UFC cards in years.
Machida has all the tools to be the next Fedor. He’s very poised and relaxed, but explosive and lightning fast. He’s one of the few guys who can close the distance and strike in the time it takes his opponent to load up a kick. And he’s incredibly skilled at creating leverage.
If he gets rid of some of his flamboyant moves, there’s no limit to what Machida can accomplish.
That’s a bold statement, but hard to argue that Machida doesn’t have this type of potential.
I can absolutely see him owning the LHW division for many years. I really enjoy watching him fight; very technical.[/quote]
You know what, I wholeheartedly agree with all of these statements. Machida seems to have solid striking with good power, but his real stand-up strength is his ability to move in strike and move out in a single fluid motion.
Chad termed it well above, calling it poise. He does look quite poised and, to borrow Joe Rogan�??s word of the year, explosive. Until Dana White gives him an opponent that can deal with Machida’s unorthodox style of striking I can’t see him being beaten.
Someone like Tito who has serious wrestling skills had real trouble taking Machida down, and if he can be as quick and elusive in his next fights, I’d say Machida could very well be a future 205 pound belt holder. Here’s hoping, because I quite enjoy watching his fights
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
fnf wrote:
The only reason I can think of why Sherk would not attempt to take BJ down was his own fear of being in BJ’s world, the ground game. I know Sherk has a great ground and pound game, but there’s no one who has BJ’s jits skill combined with freaky flexibility.
Hughes owned Penn on the ground. All Sherk had to do was take him down and control him just as Huges did. It’s not like it wasn’t done before.[/quote]
I hope you are kidding. A) that was a different weight class with a MUCH bigger weight advantage for hughes and b) by all accounts that was a different bj in terms of motivation, especially as regards preparation/conditioning