Absolutely, Shogun will be back and Forrest is a great guy and certainly deserving of that victory. He is a work-aholic.
Being a huge Shogun fan I was almost in tears when he started to gas. The first round was very close to me and went all down hill from there. He will be back and better. Also to the people calling him past his prime, hes god damn 26 years old. Just like people saying wandy is past his prime I believe he is 31. Past his prime, go shoot yourself.
Many boxers are past their prime in their late 20’s! It’s about fighting style and how much punishment the brain takes over many years, not physical age! Guys with more conservative fighting and training styles enjoy longer careers; just witness Randy Couture. Chute Boxe is notorious for doing a lot of hardcore sparring, which ends up creating great fighters for about 5 or so years, and then they start to fall apart due to the number of blows to the head.
The Brazilian fighting culture simply doesn’t lend itself to long careers, but it makes many great fighters who burn bright but burn quickly.
Plus, just like Crocop, Shogun is fighting in an environment that doesn’t allow constant steroid use the way Pride did. He has lost a lot of muscle mass and should seriously consider moving down to Middleweight. Maybe Rua and Henderson would really help bring up that division, currently the weakest one in the UFC. They’re just too small to fight at LHW, where a cage makes pure size far more important than in a ring.
[quote]Higher Game wrote:
Many boxers are past their prime in their late 20’s! It’s about fighting style and how much punishment the brain takes over many years, not physical age! Guys with more conservative fighting and training styles enjoy longer careers; just witness Randy Couture. Chute Boxe is notorious for doing a lot of hardcore sparring, which ends up creating great fighters for about 5 or so years, and then they start to fall apart due to the number of blows to the head.
The Brazilian fighting culture simply doesn’t lend itself to long careers, but it makes many great fighters who burn bright but burn quickly.
Plus, just like Crocop, Shogun is fighting in an environment that doesn’t allow constant steroid use the way Pride did. He has lost a lot of muscle mass and should seriously consider moving down to Middleweight. Maybe Rua and Henderson would really help bring up that division, currently the weakest one in the UFC. They’re just too small to fight at LHW, where a cage makes pure size far more important than in a ring.[/quote]
Agree that fights determine a fighters age, not their chronological birth day. As for Shogun moving down, this notion that every time a fighter loses he should go down a weight class is getting out of hand. Shogun is 6-1" and walks around at 220 pounds, it’s just that Forrest is the biggest LHW out there.
Griffin walks around at 240 pounds and is bigger than most heavyweights I have seen in person. Shogun was handling the size just fine until he simply gassed out from Forrest’s insane work rate.
As for steroids, I think it is pretty obvious that they will have to adjust to being tested instead of year round use without consequences.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Liddell-Jardine (two rounds)
http://www.dailymotion.com/search/liddell/video/x31n9r_keithjardinevschuckliddellufc76rnd2_sport
Rua-Griffin
http://www.dailymotion.com/search/ufc/video/x31k73_ufc76-shogun-griffin_sport
both have a slight sound lag, but WTH, enjoy[/quote]
damn they got to it before I could see…thanks anyway bro.
As a Chuck Liddel fan, I'm pretty bummed to see the ol boy not bringing it like he should be..
wish I could have gotten this one, I've gotten the last 4 or so, and just couldn't afford this one, what a shame as it looks like it was fantastic..Really happy for Forrest, and Fitch both..
TBN
[quote]Higher Game wrote:
Many boxers are past their prime in their late 20’s! It’s about fighting style and how much punishment the brain takes over many years, not physical age! Guys with more conservative fighting and training styles enjoy longer careers; just witness Randy Couture. Chute Boxe is notorious for doing a lot of hardcore sparring, which ends up creating great fighters for about 5 or so years, and then they start to fall apart due to the number of blows to the head.
The Brazilian fighting culture simply doesn’t lend itself to long careers, but it makes many great fighters who burn bright but burn quickly.
Plus, just like Crocop, Shogun is fighting in an environment that doesn’t allow constant steroid use the way Pride did. He has lost a lot of muscle mass and should seriously consider moving down to Middleweight. Maybe Rua and Henderson would really help bring up that division, currently the weakest one in the UFC. They’re just too small to fight at LHW, where a cage makes pure size far more important than in a ring.[/quote]
I agree with Donut that people overeact when guys lose and say they should move down in weight.
Rua is still only 26. He shouldn’t be written off. I think though he has got to come in better condition that what he came in against Forrest. Not to take anything away from Forrest. I do think American fighters tend to be the fittest and best conditioned fighters. Not because they train harder but because the information on training and nutrition are way ahead of other countries. And America has the coaches who are able to effectively use this information to train athletes.
Here in Japan they seem to be ten years behind. I think Nakamura should be a guy to go down to MW, I think they(coaches in Japan) don’t really know how to get a guy like him down to MW in a manner that doesn’t negatively affect his performance. This might be the case in other countries like Brazil.
As for Crocop I don’t think it is the steroid policy that has affected his performance. It his de-evolution as a fighter, specifically as a striker that has led to his downfall. He is just not the same guy who fought in K-1. HE has been reduced to a plodding one kick/punch at a time striker. Technique wise he probably has the best technique of any mma guy. Technically speaking of his striking well he doesn’t step off to his right anymore, he actually steps off to his left against orthodox fighters which will just sets him up to take damage(this I just can’t understand why).
He doesn’t throw combinations anymore. He doesn’t initiate offense. He can do these things and has in his K-1 career and early on his mma career. He would most likely lose most fights in K-1 if he fought now. If he isn’t that Mirko anymore that just makes him a good mma guy who can’t fight off his back.
Shogun will be back. I think he took Forrest lightly added with it being his first time in the UFC. He’d win a rematch and he’ll be a force.
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Liddell-Jardine (two rounds)
http://www.dailymotion.com/search/liddell/video/x31n9r_keithjardinevschuckliddellufc76rnd2_sport
Rua-Griffin
http://www.dailymotion.com/search/ufc/video/x31k73_ufc76-shogun-griffin_sport
both have a slight sound lag, but WTH, enjoy
damn they got to it before I could see…thanks anyway bro.
As a Chuck Liddel fan, I'm pretty bummed to see the ol boy not bringing it like he should be..
wish I could have gotten this one, I've gotten the last 4 or so, and just couldn't afford this one, what a shame as it looks like it was fantastic..Really happy for Forrest, and Fitch both..
TBN[/quote]
Here ya go!
http://www.mmatko.com/chuck-liddell-vs-keith-jardine-mma-fight-video-ufc-76-knockout/
Wow, I’ve got to give MAJOR respect to Forrest Griffin. First of all for asking for the fight – having seen Shogun’s highlight reel, including what he did to Rampage, friggin’ A, I thought he would destroy Forrest in ugly fashion – and secondly for actually WINNING it in pretty impressive fashion. Hats off.
That said, Shogun was obviously unprepared physically and mentally for the fight. That is no one’s fault but his own, so no one should make excuses for him, BUT, I do believe a Shogun that showed up in shape, with his cardio up to snuff the way it should be, would’ve won that fight soundly.
Though he wasn’t dominating in round one, he was doing just fine, and he did do some damage to Forrest’s head with that elbow, which let’s keep in mind is a new technique for a Pride guy to have learned/utilized.
It was also pretty noticeable that Shogun just didn’t fight as aggressively and in the same charging-ahead fashion that he normally does. (Probably because both his cardio was bad and his head just wasn’t on straight, having just gotten married two weeks earlier and all).
But Shogun is only 26, so I’m pretty sure this will serve as a wakeup call and he’ll get his shit together and be back in fine form eventually. I don’t see him going the way of CroCop, who I think is (unfortunately) probably finished.
I think it’s pretty clear though, after both the Shogun-Griffin fight and the Jardine-Liddell fight, that Rampage and Henderson are just in a league of their own in the LHW division right now. They’re just about even in my eyes (maybe with a slight edge to Rampage of course, as he won their fight), and I think either of them would demolish anyone in the division right now.
If Wanderlei comes back in peak form that will be make it another story altogether, but for now I don’t see anyone else in the division that can take either Rampage or Hendo.
Again, though, major respect to Forrest.
One more thing, though: It seems that the guys training in Randy’s camp, Xtreme Couture, have been kicking major ass lately. Training with Randy and his guys is apparently a major plus. And who, besides Forrest, Tyson, etc., has been training with Randy lately? Wanderlei.
Hmmmmmm . . .
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
StevenF wrote:
Fitnessdiva wrote:
I agree with all, but I think(or at least want) Fitch will beat Sanchez. Jardine v Liddell is a joke basically record padding for Liddell. Shogun will beat Forrest easily, I don’t think it will go out of the first round.
its cute when girls try to chime in with the guys and act like they know what they’re talking about.
Once in a while it is, but that chic is on just about every thread on the forum…it’s getting a little sickening.[/quote]
If I was spewing republican/creationist rhetoric in the politics forum, you would be kissing my ass.
On that note, I agree with what you said about Chuck having a difficult time with hard punchers. He’s lackluster against everyone who can hurt him standing. Even though he won against Overeem, he was losing that fight when he got the flash KO.
[quote]Fitnessdiva wrote:
On that note, I agree with what you said about Chuck having a difficult time with hard punchers. He’s lackluster against everyone who can hurt him standing. Even though he won against Overeem, he was losing that fight when he got the flash KO.[/quote]
Thats sort of the story of Overeem’s life…
[quote]Fitnessdiva wrote:
…
If I was spewing republican/creationist rhetoric in the politics forum, you would be kissing my ass.
…[/quote]
Don’t flatter yourself.
Fuck me that was annoying! I just can’t predict this shit anymore! Outside of Anderson Silva, there is just no continuity anymore.
Props to Forrest, but if im honest I am ultra pissed off that Shogun lost in the fashion he did. A guy who is an absolute cardio machine gasses after the first round? What’s that all about?
As for the UFC v Pride debate. There is not much difference between the skill levels in the orgs. Although Cro Cop and Rua have looked like shit, dont forget that Anderson Silva and Rampage have kicked ass. As for Herring and Nak, they have been the Pride whipping boys in the past few years. The jury is still out on what Nog has got left.
I do tend to agree with the poster who said that American teams do seem to have the better level of conditioning training.
I still dont get the Diego hate. I think he’s a very skilful fighter who always brings it. I think he’s in the awkward position of being a bit too small for 170, but too big for 155. Fitch had the edge because he was able to out muscle him, but i was impressed with Diegos active guard and sweep attempts. He really is a talented grappler.
So there are lots of rumors, nothing confirmed, but it appears that Shogun is in bad shape in the Las Vegas hospital with a cerebral hemetoma that doctors believed he developed before the fight. Supposedly he was feeling light headed and dizzy even a few days before according to anonymous Chute Box sources. All rumors but he is still indeed in the hospital.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
So there are lots of rumors, nothing confirmed, but it appears that Shogun is in bad shape in the Las Vegas hospital with a cerebral hemetoma that doctors believed he developed before the fight. Supposedly he was feeling light headed and dizzy even a few days before according to anonymous Chute Box sources. All rumors but he is still indeed in the hospital.[/quote]
Uh, any link to this anywhere?
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
So there are lots of rumors, nothing confirmed, but it appears that Shogun is in bad shape in the Las Vegas hospital with a cerebral hemetoma that doctors believed he developed before the fight. Supposedly he was feeling light headed and dizzy even a few days before according to anonymous Chute Box sources. All rumors but he is still indeed in the hospital.[/quote]
How would he pass a medical if he had a cerebral hemetoma before the fight?
[quote]AdamC wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
So there are lots of rumors, nothing confirmed, but it appears that Shogun is in bad shape in the Las Vegas hospital with a cerebral hemetoma that doctors believed he developed before the fight. Supposedly he was feeling light headed and dizzy even a few days before according to anonymous Chute Box sources. All rumors but he is still indeed in the hospital.
How would he pass a medical if he had a cerebral hemetoma before the fight?[/quote]
That is because it doesn’t show up in the “turn your head and cough” test.
Apparently he was alright and was held in the hospital for unrelated reasons. No excuses:
http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=4766&zoneid=2
Stranger things have happened. Shogun had already done medical papers to get licensed a year ago and had no injury suspensions following his two Pride fights so new medicals were probably not needed by CSAC. Diego fought Koscheck with a massive hole in his hamstring from an advanced staph infection.
Hong Man Choi fought for awhile with them completely missing a massive tumor growing on his brain stem. Tommy Morrison just fought in West Virginia even though he is HIV positive. Athletic commissions are shady as hell.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
So there are lots of rumors, nothing confirmed, but it appears that Shogun is in bad shape in the Las Vegas hospital with a cerebral hemetoma that doctors believed he developed before the fight. Supposedly he was feeling light headed and dizzy even a few days before according to anonymous Chute Box sources. All rumors but he is still indeed in the hospital.[/quote]
If that is the case, that Shogun is a stud. The guy fought 3 rounds when he should have been in a hospital.