[quote]fnf wrote:
The bodybuilder did the same exact reps as Edgar for both exercises. And his chins weren’t kipping. He did it to prove a point.
[/quote]
wow thats really good. Could he have done more or just stopped at that to prove a point?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Yeah, I’m down. I’d like to try the dip one but I partially tore my right rotator cuff several years ago and dips are one of the few things that still aggrevates it. I can do a shit ton of pull-ups/chin-ups and I’m pretty confident I can bench my bodyweight [175lbs] at least 15 times, so I’m calling I get at least 32 total and that’s with full rep chins. Guess we’ll see. My next upper day is Friday so I might try this at the end or on Sunday. I’ll post results as soon as I do.[/quote]
that sucks about the Rotator Cuff… Good luck with the attempt… Let us know how it goes.
I have no idea what my total would be but I’ll be shooting for 40 total reps. I’m leaving on a mini vacation tomorrow afternoon and will have no gym for a week so maybe I’ll go to the gym early tomorrow morning and try it out. I did chest yesterday and back today but I dont think it will affect my score that much. We’ll see if I wake up early enough… if not then when I get back
^^^This is my first week back training after almost 3 full weeks off due to a pinched nerve in my shoulder/neck so I’m really focusing on getting everything back up, but I seriously doubt one all out set of bw bench/chins would affect recovery much if at all. I might just try it Saturday after Friday’s upper workout.
[quote]fnf wrote:
Zeb, Gregron can y’all just get along? Greg’s not impressed with Edgar’s form on the bench and chins, no big deal. This reminds me of people who argued with Crossfitters when Poliquin wrote at article about Crossfit and there were so many pages about the kipping chin-up being a useful tool for conditiong or a crappy exercise because it doesn’t buiild impressive lats.
By the way, a bodybuilder at my gym who thought Edgar’s form sucked, did Edgar’s body weight routine at a bodyweight of 200lbs and he did it with form Greg would respect.[/quote]
I’m not trying to fight with Zeb. I said how i felt about it and that was all. I didnt attack him personally or try to degrade/insult him like he did with me.
I didnt say Edgar wasnt strong or not a good fighter. I said his reps werent full reps and that the fight was lame (not that he sucked or that he’s not a good fighter.)
How many reps did the bodybuilder at your gym get?[/quote]
The bodybuilder did the same exact reps as Edgar for both exercises. And his chins weren’t kipping. He did it to prove a point.
[/quote]
That with a profession in weightlifting he outlifted an MMA fighter?!?.. Having skipped over most of this e-argument I think I’m siding with zeb for the most part. Edgars profession is fighting MMA not lifting weights… the fact that he can make those lifts etc… with even some fugly form impresses me at least when he probably spends way more time on a speed bag then in a weight room perfecting his form to get the ideal muscle activation etc…
these threads always get off track
but we are good at that here.
now now ZEB- tut tut.
the Iowa wrestling team weight training brought out allot of brotards.
(greron your not a brotard)
Lots of people had lots to say, we beat that horse pretty dead.
this was less ridiculous by far
I get to ‘play’ with Frankie a little bit at Renzo’ but I have not been there in months.
and for those at home- wondering Id say he walks around at well under 165 prob 160
Sento the word your referring too is sinclair- the sinclair is the lifters body weigh relative to the work or lifts they did.
Rooney- and others- like many greco coaches use things like this the strength endurance- cause its not power endurance as some ‘evaluations’
some of the greco camps-coaches I worked with where keen on cleaning or squatting your bodyweight,
for reps-
there is even a greco kind of combine video that was posted here- and its pretty typical of what some coaches feel is important.
there is a great series of video lectures of Dave Tate at crossfit of all places
talking about judging people’s teechnique- what are they really doing.
what are they really doing- he actually talked About Ronnie Colman having the worst form
the most results and the least injuries… what is he really doing?
you could argue that with the Frankie video- what is he really doing-
that being said I am going to have to go with
wow nice job-
awesome dips
bench and chins- good work but they got a little funky.
…and everyone was friends with everyone again and all was good in the magical asskicking land…
-wait, that’s not what happened!
first, Frankie didn’t just do a good job for repping out large, he did so while in prep camp for a big fight.
Ie, he probably wrestled and kicked ass WHILE NOT having the luxury of ulimited food and with his mind not focused no so much on weights. So it’s hardly comparable, especially to some bodybuilder who’s only athletic job it is to exercise and 2) who’s body is in “anabolic mode” because of the food.
Also, for the nth time, Kipping pullups are not per se better or worse then “clean” pullups- it depends.
Why is that so hard to grasp?!
he actually talked About Ronnie Colman having the worst form
the most results and the least injuries… what is he really doing?
you could argue that with the Frankie video- what is he really doing-
that being said I am going to have to go with
wow nice job-
awesome dips
bench and chins- good work but they got a little funky.[/quote]
Good comments, well said. I think there are purists who carry their love of perfect technique into areas where it really doesn’t belong. As the video above shows Ronnie Coleman performing T-bar rows with his very own brand of reps, well known by now for not being perfect or even near perfect. Has it hurt him? Maybe it’s helped him. If anyone has read Arnolds book he talks at length about cheat reps and why they’re performed. Bodybuilders, mma guys and others who train with weights, but do not powerlift, need not adhere to such strict form to get results. No sane man can argue that there is only one way to get results. The many varied opinions by the well respected writers here on T Nation certainly proves that.
As a side note, I couldn’t help but imagine BJ Penn trying to perform that trilogy of movements and what his numbers might be. It’s true that there is far more to mma than mere gym performance. Plenty of strong guys get their heads handed to them by those lesser in that category. But, as we all know it certainly is better to have it than not. Edgar has it and along with his skills and great attitude he’s managed to win a world title.
Yep, BJs gifts are rather mental, his will, how he can mix his aggression with technique.
I still think a better gameplan would have turned things around .
By which I mean the obvious, mixing boxing up with low kicks and takedown attempts, taking the fight to the ground and third, doing some lay n pray to catch breath.
I would have bet quite some money on BJ that night if I had to, but if somehow I would have known beforehand that the gameplan was: " keep it on the feet and show the world you can box better" , Edgar would have been my favorite for sure.
All BJ’s corner would do was to pump him up and make him believe he can and should knock “this muthafucka” out.
I know talk is easy. Especially in hindsight. Sorry, BJ, you’re great but you need a different camp.
I still haven’t got my mind wrapped around that straw man thing…so you make an new arguement yourself, and the knock it down…making it look like you’ve knocked down their arugment (cause they will start to argue against it)?
Side note: I didn’t know ZEB was like this, I always thought he was the happy chin up guy who will make people do a lot of chin ups if they can’t, or raise the number of chins they can do lol
Well I tried out those challenges today and fuuuuuuuuuuck! They were hard. I definitely dont train that way but it was fun.
BB bench press: 210 x 24 (wasn’t heavy but I was smoked after number 20)
Straight to chin ups: 17 or 18… Honestly not sure which one so I’ll say 17
I then waited a minute or two and tried the dips. Had a strategy that didn’t really work out to well. Wanted to not go all out on the first set to save some gas but I don’t think it helped that much
3 minutes and 74 dips
I’d like to practice these a bit and see if I can get my numbers up there a little more. Definitely very hard
Nice.
I would be def. below this, since I haven’t benched in years and last time I did pull ups for reps, my max was slightly below thirty. (I’m a tad below 200 lbs)
However, I’m curious about the dips, perhaps I’ll try this out myself next week.
^^I tried some handstand pushups a couple weeks ago and could only get 6 lol… Definitely weird feeling cause I never do them, kinda like you and benching. If you don’t train for it then it’s hard to replicate ya know?
When I’m not doing weighted dips I usually do sets of 25 with 60 seconds rest. That’s what I started with (a set of 25) but from the on out it was 10, rest a bit, 10 rest a bit, then like 5, then 3 then sets of two lol… It got ugly quick. I was at 50 dips @ 1:30 but was smoked by then.
I like challenges like this. I’ll get a video next time when I’m not within out alone. I don’t care about showing proof if asked
[quote]rasturai wrote:
I still haven’t got my mind wrapped around that straw man thing…so you make an new arguement yourself, and the knock it down…making it look like you’ve knocked down their arugment (cause they will start to argue against it)?[/quote]
I think you’ve got your mind around it nicely.
You’ve got me all wrong man, I’m a mean guy who makes people do more and more chin-ups until they ultimately puke.
[quote]gregron wrote:
Well I tried out those challenges today and fuuuuuuuuuuck! They were hard. I definitely dont train that way but it was fun.
BB bench press: 210 x 24 (wasn’t heavy but I was smoked after number 20)
Straight to chin ups: 17 or 18… Honestly not sure which one so I’ll say 17
I then waited a minute or two and tried the dips. Had a strategy that didn’t really work out to well. Wanted to not go all out on the first set to save some gas but I don’t think it helped that much
3 minutes and 74 dips
I’d like to practice these a bit and see if I can get my numbers up there a little more. Definitely very hard[/quote]
That is a great bench set, I couldn’t touch it. And very respectable dips -
