Ufc 104

Training
61

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Bondslave wrote:
Audiences at live events are generally not people I would ally myself with…just sayin…they don’t have a good track record you know? They wouldn’t ever be accused of being the most knowledgable fans.

Well…how valid is Dana White’s opinion of who won? Also,that is pretty bold to say that about fans who attend the events. It’s not like those that post on internet forums are any more knowledgeable. [/quote]

Wow, actual sense. Dana’s opinion doesn’t count because he doesn’t judge… who would have thought? More to the point, he can’t even pick the judges. As someone who’s been to a live show, I have to admit, the arena was packed with my fellow parolees from the nearest prison. After the event, we burned some cars and damaged public property like the enlightened fans of most other major sports.

62

I’m expecting all the fanboys who signed up to their local karate mcdojos recently, to drop it like a bad habit and jump on the MT bandwagon (again).

63

[quote]rundymc wrote:
drewh wrote:
http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

Well, that settles it.
Look at the ‘Leg Power’ bar, stands right out.[/quote]

The numbers dont lie. I really like Machida, but he lost. I dont know if the judges were even watching the fight or had the score cards handed to them or what. Everyone at my fight party, everyone that saw this fight could see that Rua had this fight. At this point, I believe UFC is going to way of WWE. The fight was rigged in the worst way. I bet Dana had the rematch planned before the fight even started. Watch the movie redbelt and you’ll see exactly what I mean; “the real money is in the rematch”. 1.8 Million at the gate and probably another couple million from PPV’s and you gotta love the copyright announcements. UFC used to be about fights. Its been about money for a very long time. viva Rio Heroes!!!

64

[quote]coolp3ople wrote:
it wasn’t a bad decision, it was a pretty even fight.
1 - shogun proved he could do what? leg kick. ohh boy thats a real champion right there.
2 - Lyoto landed actual punches and defended take-downs, shogun didn’t land much except the leg kicks.

I felt like the judges failed at first but after some thoughts on the matter i didn’t really see shogun proving himself as a true ufc champion in the judges eyes.[/quote]

  1. Obviously you’ve never felt the damaging effects of a series of leg kicks and body kicks. Did you not notice Machida progressively slowing down and then stumbling around while covering up?

Here’s some examples of leg kicks winning fights:

  1. Shogun landed some good punches and elbows. Also, since when does defending take downs net you points? Getting a take down can, but defending one shouldn’t. Kind of like defending a submission shouldn’t win you points.

Not to be living in the past, but if this was Pride, Machida definitely would have lost on the “damage done” clause. Then again, even without damage, I would have thought Shogun would have won on the UFC’s “cage control” and aggression metric.

Anyway, I would have a hard time giving any round to Machida. I would give a slight edge to Shogun in the beginning just for landing more strikes and say he pulled away in the later rounds as Machida clearly started stumbling and covering up. Machida definitely landed a few strikes, but on a per round basis, I don’t think he ever dealt more damage than Shogun.

65

No way. NO WAY did Lyoto Machida win that fight.

66

Did Don King promote this fight? Cause this was theft.

67

I am not sure how one could think that was a boring fight. Just becuase there wasn’t a knockout or submission? If you didn’t like the way Shogun fought, you must not be a fan of Machida’s in general.

I would rather be knocked out in the first round than take that kind of punishment to my ribs and leg for 5 rounds. If I fought competitively, that is exactly what I would attempt to do. Take all the time they gave me to punish my apponent as much as possible.

I feel terrible for Shogun. To put in all of that work and clearly best his apponent, only to lose the fight. He has to be devistated. I really hope the UFC takes care of him.

68

[quote]rundymc wrote:
Rutten-Randleman not withstanding)[/quote]

This is exactly what came to mind when witnessing that decision. This was a close second to that one. The only difference between the two is several years of MMA judging. No excuse for this today.

69

http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

70

You mean close third.

Exhibit A:

  • Bisping vs Hamill

heheh, thinking about that one makes me puke.

71

[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
coolp3ople wrote:
it wasn’t a bad decision, it was a pretty even fight.
1 - shogun proved he could do what? leg kick. ohh boy thats a real champion right there.
2 - Lyoto landed actual punches and defended take-downs, shogun didn’t land much except the leg kicks.

I felt like the judges failed at first but after some thoughts on the matter i didn’t really see shogun proving himself as a true ufc champion in the judges eyes.

  1. Obviously you’ve never felt the damaging effects of a series of leg kicks and body kicks. Did you not notice Machida progressively slowing down and then stumbling around while covering up?

Here’s some examples of leg kicks winning fights:

  1. Shogun landed some good punches and elbows. Also, since when does defending take downs net you points? Getting a take down can, but defending one shouldn’t. Kind of like defending a submission shouldn’t win you points.

Not to be living in the past, but if this was Pride, Machida definitely would have lost on the “damage done” clause. Then again, even without damage, I would have thought Shogun would have won on the UFC’s “cage control” and aggression metric.

Anyway, I would have a hard time giving any round to Machida. I would give a slight edge to Shogun in the beginning just for landing more strikes and say he pulled away in the later rounds as Machida clearly started stumbling and covering up. Machida definitely landed a few strikes, but on a per round basis, I don’t think he ever dealt more damage than Shogun.[/quote]

What did Lyoto do? He did nothing in that fight! Clearly Shogun did more damage. Neither fought a great fight, but at the end of the day Shogun, without question, did more damage, controlled every aspect of that fight.

72

so much for Machida being the least hit fighter in mma history. shogun was all over him. definite robbery.

list of things Lyoto can’t escape:

  1. Shogun Rua

  2. his unibrow

73

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
rundymc wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
As much as I like Machida, he lost that fight. He won round 3 and that’s it. Shogun landed better shots, had him against the cage, and fought an overall better fight. Lyoto was hurt badly. I don’t think he wants a piece of Shogun again. I do feel really bad for Shogun, I’m sure he’s won some fans.

The key to breaking down Machida is now exposed: attack him, be proactive, go after his legs. Lyoto’s next opponent I guarantee will break down this tape and see what needs to be done.

I agree. But who’s next for the dragon? Can Rashad take another stab at him? He certainly has the tools to emulated Shogun’s gameplan. Will Rampage return? Will Shogun get a VERY well deserved immediate rematch?

Velasquez dominated Rothwell. I’m surprised Mazzagati didn’t stop the fight in the first round. Even if the fight went the distance, I thought Cain won the first round 10-8, and Rothwell could have won rounds 2/3 for a draw, at best.

I would have scored that round 10-7, heheh. That reminded me of back when I was a kid and I’d fight my little brother (who at the time was half my size). Cain fucking manhandled him, made Rothwell look like a complete amateur. I highly doubt there was any coming back from that.

And AJ, nice start to the main event with a 30-second KO.

Bullshit, Yoshida was totally fine, totally ready to defend.[/sarcasm]
Seriously though, AJ is too fucking BIG for 170. He claimed a knee injury kept him from making weight, but honestly I think 185’s his home. Look at him, his body fat’s in the low single digits come fight time, you’re telling me there’s 5.5 pounds of fat and water he can pull out of there without fucking himself up with diuretics? Plus, I’d go so far as to say he’s bigger than Cung Le, Henderson, shit even Marquardt, not to mention Maia.

Next for the Dragon? Maybe the winner of Rashad-Thiago? Lyoto beat both of them back to back, but know they have a huge advantage as compared to last time. Is it fair for other LHW if Rashad or Thiago gets a chance ahead of everyone else. An immediate rematch with Shogun would be great, but I don’t know if it will happen.

Yeah Cain whooped up. I’m thinking maybe Cain-Dos Santos for the right to fight winner of Lesnar-Carwin?

Yeah AJ needs to fight at MW. He’s huge for WW, and perfect for MW. Apparently, he had to cut from 220 to make weight, then blamed it on a new cutting method given to him by a friend of an agent. Then the knee injury. Don’t know what’s true or not.[/quote]

Johnson cuts 50lbs to fight? That’s bananas.

74

If you judge the fight as a whole, Shogun won it, but a fight is judged in rounds. Shogun made more damage in the rounds he won than Lyoto did in the rounds he won, but Shogun clearly didnt do enough damage (or a knock down)to score a 10-8 round.
It could be 48-47 either way, but the judges gave it to the champ, if it was not a championship fight it probably would be a split decision for either.

75

[quote]DannyVandal wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:

Thiago Silva definitely has the tools to beat Machida in a rematch if he follows Shogun’s gameplan
[/quote]

I don’t know. Thiago is too slow and doesn’t have quickness,foot work,and explosion that Shogun has. The only person at 205(outside of Anderson) that could probably duplicate what Shogun did is Vera. Granted he gets past Couture…but he’s been so hit or miss to even deserve a shot at Machida.

With that…I think the biggest thing Shogun did was actually stick to a good gameplan and not get anxious and frustrated. He didn’t fight Machida’s fight…as most do. Try to push Machida early and you fall right into his type of fight. Shogun had a good mix of aggressiveness and patience. You could almost say that he beat Machida at his own game.

Shogun definitely left a blueprint,but the question is who really could work off that blueprint at LHW.

76

Well shogun won and he knows it, the fans know it and even machida knows, as you could tel by that rather lame but diplomatic answer post-fight, when asked if he thinks he won.

I think the UFC just didn’t want one of their biggest cash cows to be killed off by a decision win.

But thus ends the ‘Machida era’. I lol every time I think of machidas supposed ‘elusiveness’ now. If he didn’t have a decent chin he would’ve got ktfo yesterday.

Assuming A.silva retires soon, he’s best off moving to MW. Might be jumping the gun a bit, He’s good no doubt, but I don’t he’ll last as lhw champ much longer. And he looked a little undersized against shogun imo.

77

Was supporting Machida since I used to do shotokan karate, but that decision was daylight robbery.

78

I got a piece of paper and watched the fight again. I’m no judge, but I scored solid strikes and tallied them as I watched. Kicks/Knees I classified as kicks, elbows/punches as punches. I didn’t give a point if it wasn’t a solid blow, glances don’t count.

I scored it through the rounds as:

Round 1- Machida kicks-6 punches-2, Rua kicks-7 punches-2 - total Machida 8, Rua 9.

Round 2- Machida kicks-5 punches-3, Rua kicks-1 punches-9 - total Machida 8, Rua 10.

Round 3- Machida kicks-6 punches-7, Rua kicks-2 punches-7 - total Machida 13, Rua 9.

Round 4- Machida kicks-4 punches-4, Rua kicks-10 punches-1 - total Machida 8, Rua 11.

Round 5- Machida kicks-5 punches-2, Rua kicks-5 punches-3 - total Machida 7, Rua 8.

So Rua would’ve won rounds 1,2,4 and 5.

Machida did give an aggressive push at the end of the 5th round, that can affect how the judges view the contest.

One thing I did notice was Rogan was making loud exclamations about Rua’s kicks, but wouldn’t mention Machida’s punches unless it slammed Rua hard. A lot of Rua’s kicks were countered by Machida, I don’t know how the judges would score that.

79

Machida Nutlover chiming in.

I saw a close fight, which I gave Shogun in the end
STILL
It wasn’t that clear or obvious. As others already said Shogun won his rounds better and executed a fine strategy with patience. He especially had a great start, that is the most important thing on Machida, I think.

Rogan was an atrocious commentator, like so often. He decides to pick just one guy’s side and then drama shoots through the roof anytime he farts. (A BEAUTIFUL BROWN FART, WOW, STRAIGHT TO MACHIDA’S NOSE!)

A different, heavy fighter (name eludes me) already tested Machida’s lower body-chin (the knee?) with lots of good low kicks to no avail. That’s why I thought kicking Ryoto’s legs would be a bad strategy, and also because he like to counter kicks aggressively.
Shogun’s a beast.

80

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Machida Nutlover chiming in.

I saw a close fight, which I gave Shogun in the end
STILL
It wasn’t that clear or obvious. As others already said Shogun won his rounds better and executed a fine strategy with patience. He especially had a great start, that is the most important thing on Machida, I think.

Rogan was an atrocious commentator, like so often. He decides to pick just one guy’s side and then drama shoots through the roof anytime he farts. (A BEAUTIFUL BROWN FART, WOW, STRAIGHT TO MACHIDA’S NOSE!)

A different, heavy fighter (name eludes me) already tested Machida’s lower body-chin (the knee?) with lots of good low kicks to no avail. That’s why I thought kicking Ryoto’s legs would be a bad strategy, and also because he like to counter kicks aggressively.
Shogun’s a beast.

[/quote]

Unlike most MMA fighters though, Shogun actually kept his hands up when he threw his kicks, thus allowing him to safely absorb Machida’s counter punches.

Like you said, I’m a Machida fan, but I definitely gave the fight to Shogun. Machida won 1 (maybe 2) of those rounds, but Shogun landed more clean strikes, did more damage, and was the aggressor for more of the fight.