UCSB kid that murdered 7

Off Topic
81

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Going through school too timid to approach girls or potential friends while watching others enjoy the life you want can be very crippling. I know that when I was too shy to approach females, at least I got to enjoy a little bit of attention from them, even though I was too scared to do anything about it.[/quote]

I know this. I was the fat kid in middle school and high school. I also happened to immigrate to the States at the age of 13, so I didn’t speak English well. All of this made me incredibly shy around people and uncomfortable to even speak. You wouldn’t want to speak either when you know your ability to speak pales in comparison to your peers.

This attitude follows me even to this day, and even now I have a hard time actually stringing spoken English along well enough to have a free-flowing conversation without random pauses, caused either due to a momentary failure in choosing the word I want to use or because my pronunciation plain sucks with certain sounds and I kick myself mentally whenever I pronounce something poorly.

Might have been better if I spoke like a foreigner outright. At least then people won’t think I suck at speaking or something.

Difficult to be Casanova when you can’t speak well. I mean, I’ve yet to have a gf. I find it incredibly difficult to even approach women on a romantic level, let alone have small talk with them. In fact, I find the very act of having small talk with someone difficult.

Anyways, I understand crippling shyness and the feeling of being ostracized. I still have no sympathy at all for those who use it as an excuse for what they do.

82

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
I read through the later parts of his manifesto and I must say, I felt for him.

As someone who has had a bit of a social anxiety disorder in the past (perhaps a bit still) and went through great pains to break through it, I will attest to the fact that a lack of female validation or peer approbation coupled with a strong ego sets someone up for a grade A inferiority complex. Going through school too timid to approach girls or potential friends while watching others enjoy the life you want can be very crippling. I know that when I was too shy to approach females, at least I got to enjoy a little bit of attention from them, even though I was too scared to do anything about it.

He was not entirely wrong in what he postulated about females. What he was wrong about was the assumption that it was the world that was at fault. The world is what it is and he never seemed to really try to change himself, just put himself in situations that he would later balk from and feel small about. What he really needed was a job, waiting tables or something, that puts you in an environment with females that you have an excuse to talk to. Or to simply wait a little longer until girls tend to change what they are looking for after they get done with all the dick heads.

Such a shame.[/quote]

Yeah, waiting tables would have been a good place for him to begin working out his demons. I can only lament the fact that he never had the opportunity to work in a profession with one of the highest rates of depression amongst its employees. He definitely could have benefited from waiting on the people who deemed himself to be superior to in all ways, and I can’t imagine that seeing these people come in with their significant others all day would have had a negative impact on him.[/quote]
LOOOOOOL[/quote]

Yeah I can appreciate sattire, but I urge you to consider how much of your social outings are spent bitching about work to your coworkers over a drink, and how this becomes a first step towards conversation about more positive topics.
[/quote]
I haven’t lost perspective on the matter at hand. I just found the post funny.

83

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Going through school too timid to approach girls or potential friends while watching others enjoy the life you want can be very crippling. I know that when I was too shy to approach females, at least I got to enjoy a little bit of attention from them, even though I was too scared to do anything about it.[/quote]

I know this. I was the fat kid in middle school and high school. I also happened to immigrate to the States at the age of 13, so I didn’t speak English well. All of this made me incredibly shy around people and uncomfortable to even speak. You wouldn’t want to speak either when you know your ability to speak pales in comparison to your peers.

This attitude follows me even to this day, and even now I have a hard time actually stringing spoken English along well enough to have a free-flowing conversation without random pauses, caused either due to a momentary failure in choosing the word I want to use or because my pronunciation plain sucks with certain sounds and I kick myself mentally whenever I pronounce something poorly.

Might have been better if I spoke like a foreigner outright. At least then people won’t think I suck at speaking or something.

Difficult to be Casanova when you can’t speak well. I mean, I’ve yet to have a gf. I find it incredibly difficult to even approach women on a romantic level, let alone have small talk with them. In fact, I find the very act of having small talk with someone difficult.

Anyways, I understand crippling shyness and the feeling of being ostracized. I still have no sympathy at all for those who use it as an excuse for what they do.[/quote]

When I stopped worrying about my flaws and embraced them is really when I started to have fun. Someone told me something that’s always stuck with me. When a girl rejects you ( or anyone for that matter) it’s not personal because they don’t know you personally. So don’t take it personally. Once you embrace your biggest insecurities, is when you start to truly feel free. Granted, you’ll still get down at times, but it sure is more fun when you talked to a random girl and it works out. Better than never trying it all. But easier said than done.

84

From the manifesto:

My mother attained tickets for the red carpet premiere of Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones…I was awestruck by the time the movie ended. I found it to be phenomenal.

85

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
I read through the later parts of his manifesto and I must say, I felt for him.

As someone who has had a bit of a social anxiety disorder in the past (perhaps a bit still) and went through great pains to break through it, I will attest to the fact that a lack of female validation or peer approbation coupled with a strong ego sets someone up for a grade A inferiority complex. Going through school too timid to approach girls or potential friends while watching others enjoy the life you want can be very crippling. I know that when I was too shy to approach females, at least I got to enjoy a little bit of attention from them, even though I was too scared to do anything about it.

He was not entirely wrong in what he postulated about females. What he was wrong about was the assumption that it was the world that was at fault. The world is what it is and he never seemed to really try to change himself, just put himself in situations that he would later balk from and feel small about. What he really needed was a job, waiting tables or something, that puts you in an environment with females that you have an excuse to talk to. Or to simply wait a little longer until girls tend to change what they are looking for after they get done with all the dick heads.

Such a shame.[/quote]

Yeah, waiting tables would have been a good place for him to begin working out his demons. I can only lament the fact that he never had the opportunity to work in a profession with one of the highest rates of depression amongst its employees. He definitely could have benefited from waiting on the people who deemed himself to be superior to in all ways, and I can’t imagine that seeing these people come in with their significant others all day would have had a negative impact on him.[/quote]
LOOOOOOL[/quote]

Yeah I can appreciate sattire, but I urge you to consider how much of your social outings are spent bitching about work to your coworkers over a drink, and how this becomes a first step towards conversation about more positive topics.
[/quote]

I’m thinking about it, and…well, I never bitch about my job to coworkers because I love what I do. Shared misery is hardly the ticket to mental health and stability.

I can remember all sorts of times that I bitched about my job with coworkers when I worked in a different profession. And you know what invariably comes of that sort of conversation? A great big, negative-minded circle jerk session where, by the end of the night, a complete transvaluation of our morals has occurred, to the point where there is all of a sudden some sort of virtue in being neither financially stable enough nor professionally qualified enough to risk going out and finding another job instead. Yay! Our job sucks because we’re too underqualified to go out and find one that might actually bring fulfillment to our lives.

Yeah, I can see that conversation between little Johnny Manifesto and his co-workers down at the local Outback.

JM: Man, I fucking hate this job. Derek is such a fucking asshole and a completely incompetent boss.

Coworker #1: Yeah, man. This place totally sucks. I even got written up for coming to work stoned last week.

Coworker #2: For sure, bro! Man, I feel so much better already, just knowing that I’m not the only one who hates this fucking shithole.

JM: You know what will make you feel even better about this shitty job?

Coworkers #1 and #2: What?

JM: We show up one day and we kill EVERY MOTHERFUCKER IN HERE.

Coworker#1: Uh, I don’t think I can hang out over at your place and shoot smack with you tonight, Johnny.

Coworker #2: Yeah, uh, I…uh, have to return some videotapes.

JM: (under his breath) Those two fuckers just got added to the list.

86

[quote]Nards wrote:
From the manifesto:

My mother attained tickets for the red carpet premiere of Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones…I was awestruck by the time the movie ended. I found it to be phenomenal.[/quote]

Obvious signs of a psychopath.

87

[quote]Nards wrote:
From the manifesto:

My mother attained tickets for the red carpet premiere of Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones…I was awestruck by the time the movie ended. I found it to be phenomenal.[/quote]

the symptoms could have been detected early…

88

[quote]KingGoku wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Jayk wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

No, I will not disown him,

[/quote]

You’re a very sick person.

Bullshit. Girls didn’t like him because he was a creepy narcissist with delusions of grandeur.
[/quote]

No, I am not a sick individual, I am just not a very emotional one.

Yes, but the shape his delusions took where shaped by the society he lived in. [/quote]

You know nothing about this guy other than he was batshit crazy and couldn’t get laid. What do you think society did to him?
[/quote]

I know that his world view was shaped by the Manosphere (gargle…), redpill stuff because I can smell it on him.

I know that his idea of getting women was trying to be suuuuper nice and having a provider vibe…

I know that 2 was not succesful, 1 and 2 clashed and that his NPD personality did not allow him to let go of the idelized provider type persona society has hammered into him.

Mixed messages are a hell of a challenge anyway, but if your ideal self is invested in something that no longer works in any way, shape or form, well, something is gotta give… [/quote]

Can you please stop vomiting bullshit?

You are analyzing him all wrong. Anyone who says they are a nice guy like he did and all of that shit, was probably a total asshole. He was not bad looking, but if I had to guess he was probably socially inept and went after the wrong women for him. No, I do not think he tried to seem like a provider, and maybe he did try to seem nice, but if I had to guess it was all very ingenuine and he asked for way too much too fast.

He definitely has a personality disorder and if I had to guess his desire for women had very little to do with sex or connection and almost everything to do with the social status and control that it provides.

If you want to side with him then how about instead of this red pill, blue pill bullshit you take a cyanide pill like I wish this guy would have done 20 years ago. I will not allow anyone to perpetuate ideas that give a false sense of righteousness to the killings of women.[/quote]

Finally someone who actually read some of the manifesto! Everyone else in this thread has just been taking out their asses.

I don’t agree with you completely though. I don’t think he had that much of a personality disorder. If you take a hundred people at random, a few of them will probably have a higher degree of narcissistic personality disorder then he.

I also don’t wish he had offed himself a long time ago. It seems like it easily could have been different for him, he didn’t have to spiral down the path he did. I wish he had gotten the help or put in a environment that would have helped him. I have no idea what help could have made a difference… this is so complex.

One thing I think you nailed is he definitely wanted too much too soon. A fourteen year old jealous with envy because other kids have girlfriends? Wow.[/quote]

I skimmed his manifesto and watched a couple of his videos. I don’t think his problem was solely girls, even though that’s what he specified. He kept emphasizing how alone he was. He lacked any relationship whatsoever. He planned to kill his own brother without hesitation. He had no friends whatsoever. Not just girl problems… he lacked any type of companionship. These mass shooters are cowards. Reading his manifesto showed me just how crazy someone can be. I know there are people out there who probably feel the same way as he did, and that’s a scary thought. These shootings remind me that I need to try and be as kind and as accepting as possible. If we can all manage to try our best to treat others as best as we can, I think we can prevent some of these psychopathic people from committing these type of crimes. Let’s also not glorify the shooter like the media likes to do. I wish the media wouldn’t make these guys infamous. The victims and families of the victims are the ones who deserve to be in our thoughts.[/quote]

I believe it is quite the contrary that needs to be done when dealing with people in which the way I have to guess he acted. If I had to guess since his family was very well off money wise, his insolence was ignored or perhaps even rewarded by giving him what he wanted. That is on top of what I already said which is that I strongly believe he had a personality disorder and I have heard he also suffered from aspergers syndrome.

I am not saying be an asshole, but fear should never force anyone to feel the need to give people the time of day or a false since of kindness so that they do not kill someone or themselves.

89

I finally finished that whole manifesto. Wow, so draining by how depressing it is.

I think this could be material for a lot of graduate psych students to do their thesis work on. Such a detailed and largely unfiltered account of his spiral down into the depths of psychopathy.

90

Orion: With the sort of discourse you provide here, I am curious as to what YOU look like and what makes YOU the so called “cream of the crop”.

It always humors me how ordinary men believe the only women they SHOULD have are exceptionally beautiful or talented women or women from the upper socioeconomic class and then, like this nut, wonder why they don’t have any women at all or become frustrated, and in some cases, as in this guy’s case, become homicidal, when all the while they can attract women that match them.

No, no, not good. Better to delude oneself that beautiful women from rich and powerful families should be at their beck and call or that they will actually act like pornstars in real life.

Wait, who am I to comment on this? I am just a middle class “beta male”, along with all my friends who got laid and had robust social lives in their younger years and now have wives and children. Ah, poor them, beta males. Terrible.

91

[quote]on edge wrote:
I finally finished that whole manifesto. Wow, so draining by how depressing it is.

I think this could be material for a lot of graduate psych students to do their thesis work on. Such a detailed and largely unfiltered account of his spiral down into the depths of psychopathy. [/quote]

Well, I think the world of psychology students has plenty of material to work with as it is. Mein Kampf is a good place to start.

So what’s your honest assessment of the manifesto itself? Is there some sort of structure to it, or is it literally just the ramblings of a madman? I haven’t read it, only skimmed bits and pieces, but as someone with an interest in psychoanalysis, does this have any use to me? Does he come across more as a narcissist or as a paranoid schizophrenic? Or even better, an exotic blend of both? What do you think can be learned from the manifesto? Do you have any idea as to how long it took him to write this? Can I literally “see” him spiraling downward, from the precipice of the whirlpool all the way to the very bottom? Or was he already completely off the deep end when he started writing it?

92

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
I finally finished that whole manifesto. Wow, so draining by how depressing it is.

I think this could be material for a lot of graduate psych students to do their thesis work on. Such a detailed and largely unfiltered account of his spiral down into the depths of psychopathy. [/quote]

Well, I think the world of psychology students has plenty of material to work with as it is. Mein Kampf is a good place to start.

So what’s your honest assessment of the manifesto itself? Is there some sort of structure to it, or is it literally just the ramblings of a madman? I haven’t read it, only skimmed bits and pieces, but as someone with an interest in psychoanalysis, does this have any use to me? Does he come across more as a narcissist or as a paranoid schizophrenic? Or even better, an exotic blend of both? What do you think can be learned from the manifesto? Do you have any idea as to how long it took him to write this? Can I literally “see” him spiraling downward, from the precipice of the whirlpool all the way to the very bottom? Or was he already completely off the deep end when he started writing it?[/quote]

I didn’t read the whole thing, but it’s organized chronologically. He highlights significant events in his life that basically led to him being the way he is… Oh and he constantly refers to himself as beautiful and magnificent. Just skip to the last page of it. That’s where you’ll see the extent of his insanity. He talks of a perfect society where sex is outlawed. Where women are put into concentration camps and only a few are kept merely for reproduction through artificial insemination. In a world without sex he says that we would prosper and no one would have to feel what he felt. He also says if he can’t have it he must destroy it… He should have just used his money to get a few prostitutes.

93

[quote]on edge wrote:
I finally finished that whole manifesto. Wow, so draining by how depressing it is.

I think this could be material for a lot of graduate psych students to do their thesis work on. Such a detailed and largely unfiltered account of his spiral down into the depths of psychopathy. [/quote]
That’s what I was thinking too. I mean this guy practically self defines a lot of psychological disorders. I’m pretty sure once you start believing that you are a god you’ve reached the final tier of insanity…

94

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
I finally finished that whole manifesto. Wow, so draining by how depressing it is.

I think this could be material for a lot of graduate psych students to do their thesis work on. Such a detailed and largely unfiltered account of his spiral down into the depths of psychopathy. [/quote]

Well, I think the world of psychology students has plenty of material to work with as it is. Mein Kampf is a good place to start.

So what’s your honest assessment of the manifesto itself? Is there some sort of structure to it, or is it literally just the ramblings of a madman? I haven’t read it, only skimmed bits and pieces, but as someone with an interest in psychoanalysis, does this have any use to me? Does he come across more as a narcissist or as a paranoid schizophrenic? Or even better, an exotic blend of both? What do you think can be learned from the manifesto? Do you have any idea as to how long it took him to write this? Can I literally “see” him spiraling downward, from the precipice of the whirlpool all the way to the very bottom? Or was he already completely off the deep end when he started writing it?[/quote]

I didn’t read the whole thing but to me it read like a list of his injustices.

I don’t know if you can call it an unfiltered account and how much it tells you. It sounds like a recollection written after the fact. Everything looks different through that lens.

I find it bizarre how much more blame he laid on the women who ignored him vs the men who were cruel to him. I read a couple of the threads on bb.com and I would have figured him to be a troll for sure.

95

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
I finally finished that whole manifesto. Wow, so draining by how depressing it is.

I think this could be material for a lot of graduate psych students to do their thesis work on. Such a detailed and largely unfiltered account of his spiral down into the depths of psychopathy. [/quote]

Well, I think the world of psychology students has plenty of material to work with as it is. Mein Kampf is a good place to start.

So what’s your honest assessment of the manifesto itself? Is there some sort of structure to it, or is it literally just the ramblings of a madman? I haven’t read it, only skimmed bits and pieces, but as someone with an interest in psychoanalysis, does this have any use to me? Does he come across more as a narcissist or as a paranoid schizophrenic? Or even better, an exotic blend of both? What do you think can be learned from the manifesto? Do you have any idea as to how long it took him to write this? Can I literally “see” him spiraling downward, from the precipice of the whirlpool all the way to the very bottom? Or was he already completely off the deep end when he started writing it?[/quote]

I didn’t read the whole thing but to me it read like a list of his injustices.

I don’t know if you can call it an unfiltered account and how much it tells you. It sounds like a recollection written after the fact. Everything looks different through that lens.

I find it bizarre how much more blame he laid on the women who ignored him vs the men who were cruel to him. I read a couple of the threads on bb.com and I would have figured him to be a troll for sure.
[/quote]

Seems like he tries to sound theatrical and dramatic. I don’t know if I’m the only one who got that feel from it.

96

As far as showing kindness or positivity to someone like this…I don’t know. if I smell that level of creep on someone Im just going to avoid eye contact. I’ve learned the hard way that too much kindness (at least from a woman) to an entitled guy is only going to lead to hurt. I suspect the realization that a woman is giving you attention out of pity isn’t fun either and isn’t going to have a positive effect on a nutcase.

To be honest I do avoid friendships with women who flip the crazy bit too. It’s not worth it.

I am not convinced his condition was not inevitable.

97

[quote]debraD wrote:
As far as showing kindness or positivity to someone like this…I don’t know. if I smell that level of creep on someone Im just going to avoid eye contact. I’ve learned the hard way that too much kindness (at least from a woman) to an entitled guy is only going to lead to hurt. I suspect the realization that a woman is giving you attention out of pity isn’t fun either and isn’t going to have a positive effect on a nutcase.

To be honest I do avoid friendships with women who flip the crazy bit too. It’s not worth it.

I am not convinced his condition was not inevitable.[/quote]

Yeah definitely. There are those who if you show any signs of kindness to, they feel you’re their best friend. Also have seen guys who think girls are interested in them when they’re just being nice. It’s hard to find a happy medium.

98

[quote]SirTroyRobert wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
I finally finished that whole manifesto. Wow, so draining by how depressing it is.

I think this could be material for a lot of graduate psych students to do their thesis work on. Such a detailed and largely unfiltered account of his spiral down into the depths of psychopathy. [/quote]

Well, I think the world of psychology students has plenty of material to work with as it is. Mein Kampf is a good place to start.

So what’s your honest assessment of the manifesto itself? Is there some sort of structure to it, or is it literally just the ramblings of a madman? I haven’t read it, only skimmed bits and pieces, but as someone with an interest in psychoanalysis, does this have any use to me? Does he come across more as a narcissist or as a paranoid schizophrenic? Or even better, an exotic blend of both? What do you think can be learned from the manifesto? Do you have any idea as to how long it took him to write this? Can I literally “see” him spiraling downward, from the precipice of the whirlpool all the way to the very bottom? Or was he already completely off the deep end when he started writing it?[/quote]

I didn’t read the whole thing but to me it read like a list of his injustices.

I don’t know if you can call it an unfiltered account and how much it tells you. It sounds like a recollection written after the fact. Everything looks different through that lens.

I find it bizarre how much more blame he laid on the women who ignored him vs the men who were cruel to him. I read a couple of the threads on bb.com and I would have figured him to be a troll for sure.
[/quote]

Seems like he tries to sound theatrical and dramatic. I don’t know if I’m the only one who got that feel from it.
[/quote]

Of course. That’s how you sound when you are trying to explain how bad you have it. And in turn his exaggerations and dramatizations probably helped convince him how bad it actually was.

That’s how wallowing in self pity works, IME. It’s a vicious downward spiral fed by your own repeating loops of going over the facts skewed worse every iteration. By the time he put it to paper it was probably cycled through his crazy a million times.

Obviously just my opinion…IANAD…

99

I am a fourth year here at UCSB, and live on Del playa about 50 yards away from a lot of the shooting and about 200 yards from the car crash. I had friends in restaurants at some of the shooting areas (who are all fine now), and was actually leaving my house to meet them but heard the shots rounding a corner and ran back to my home. We were very lucky that it was a pretty slow weekend here and not many were in town. We are especially lucky that he was unable to gain entrance to the sorority house. And while it was an absolutely terrible event, we are honestly lucky it wasn’t worse. The police response was more than amazing

There was a candle light vigil the night after the shootings, which almost the entire community (and more) attended. There is a school wide memorial tomorrow, and an ocean paddle out memorial on wednesday. I couldn’t be more proud of the Isla Vista community, who has taken the horrific event so amazingly. The amount of love and good energy is at its all time highest, and I would just like to thank you all for your support.

100

It sounds to me that this guy might be a classic example of Fromm’s “syndrome of decay”. There are three personality disorders required to meet this diagnosis: necrophilia, malignant narcissism, and incestuous symbiosis.

I don’t know about necrophilia. It’s not actually sexual arousal from dead bodies, but destruction and death in general. Did anything in his manifesto indicate an obsession with death? Feces? Dirt? Decay? Corpses? Illnesses?

Obviously, the guy was a full-blown narcissist.

Now, incestuous symbiosis seems like a definite possibility as well. The only part I read of this manifesto was about the sheer terror he felt when going to school. Apparently, the terror was too great for him and he was sent to another school, where he didn’t fare a whole lot better. I wonder if being separated from his mother during the day began to grow more problematic for him. The idea of incestuous symbiosis is that the person needs a host to take care of him and shower him with attention, while he can then reciprocate by taking care of the host, thereby also further exacerbating his narcissistic tendencies. The host does not have to be the person’s actual mother. WIth Hitler, it was the volk, the German people. Loss of contact with the host can prove to be catastrophic for the individual in question. Perhaps this asshole’s mother was a host and being separated from her magnified his disorder. He might have had a surrogate host of sorts rather than his mother. Was there anything in his manifesto that might have indicated as much?

I’ll have to read the manifesto all the way through now.