Jesus, I can’t believe some of you guys. Let it die. Some people want to be the next Mr. Olympia, some people want to be a huge powerlifter basically built like a barrel, or somewhere in between the two and some people want to be fit, athletic types. It takes all kinds. Way too much ego in this place.
ooo get her!!! Touche’ DocT!!!
What happend when I took a stroid course? I became agressive, my joints ached like f*ck and I was told by my GP I’d damaged my liver (but it would repair itself, thank the lord)
As for positively articles on here re 'roids, well ofcourse they’ll be! This site promotes size and bulking up, you’re bound to get articles in favour of steroids. But for every positive article on here you’ll get 10 in every medical journal telling you the negative aspects…
if you think you’re so well-informed about steroids and dont mind taking them, well, good for you! Enjoy your drugs, it’s just a shame you need to cheat to look the way you want to. What ever happend to hard work and a bit of grafting?
I dont feel inferior by ‘big’ guys at all. I know I’m fitter then them, I’m a professional sportsman! Maybe it’s the reverse, you are in fact jealous of me… you couldnt do professional sports so you have to take 'roids and bulk up to not feel a failure?
I respect anyone who works hard at anything, but dont kid me and tell me body builders are ‘fit’ and have any significant amount of cardio ability greater then the average man on the street. ‘Fitness’ is about being fit, not big. Strength is part of being fit, but it’s not the main thing. Now I know being a ‘serious’ weight trainer/BB is not about being fit, but thats my point - dont knock guys who strive for fitness when your ideal is all about ‘big’. If this guy wants to have a cut, lean, healthy look that’s in the normal BMI range then good for him. Dont diss him for being ‘skinny’ or misguided.
UKDipShit, I see a HUUUGGGEE inferiority complex on your part here. That, along with your ignorance, is a horrible combination.
Here, we’ll do this one more time. Your GP told you that you’d “damaged your liver.” Again, you ignorant twat, he simply looked at your liver enzymes and made an assumption. Elevated liver enzymes do NOT necessarily indicate liver damage. Being an MD does NOT mean that this guy knows what he’s talking about when it comes to bodybuilding, nutrition, or steroid use. The fact that you blindly trust him about this particular issue is damning to you.
Of course there are positive articles about steroids here, because the writers here are intelligent, well-informed, and have some fucking common sense, something you apparently lack. Please, PLEASE show me 10 articles in medical journals reporting the evils of steroids. Better yet, tell me that you read medical journals every day and that you’ve been to medical school. You’re full of shit on everything else, why not about that too?
“if you think you’re so well-informed about steroids and dont mind taking them, well, good for you!”
When have I EVER said a word about personal steroid use? You ASSUME that, because I’m knowledgeable about steroids, that I MUST use them, right? If you would quit whining about how much “fitter” you are than everybody else and get your head out of your ass, you might actually be able to follow a conversation.
“Maybe it’s the reverse, you are in fact jealous of me”
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, my goal in life is to be an ignorant twat working out with pink weights wearing my leg warmers.
“I respect anyone who works hard at anything, but dont kid me and tell me body builders are ‘fit’ and have any significant amount of cardio ability greater then the average man on the street”
You DON’T KNOW the “cardio ability” of every single person bigger than you. If it makes you feel better to think that way, so be it.
BMI, blah, blah. We’ve been over this and you’re still misinformed.
Ignorance is bliss, right?
BTW, why exactly are you here?
what are you guys even arguing about ?
Our sincerest apologies for hijacking the thread.
Whos bradd pitt?
DocT, Hmm, I’m not sure what medical training US doctors do, but in the UK they’re prety well trained and I tend to listen to their advice if I have an ailment…
Pink leg warmers? Seems to me you’re the ignorant one mister! Why pink? Am I sensing a diss to my masculinity? He he, how immature!
UKfitguy, I’ve given up on you.
Doctors are doctors worldwide. NOWHERE are they trained well in the specifics of anabolic steroid use, side effects, etc. You can choose to blindly ignore that fact all you want. I personally know several docs from the UK, and they’re no more knowledgeable about this type of stuff than US docs. That’s no slam to them. That’s a fact about medical education in the world. The sad part is that you don’t even realize you’re ignorant about this and insist you’re not. Open your “fit” mind for two seconds.
As for the pink leg warmer thing, well, you just had that coming to you. And you’re really not one to be discussing maturity, as a mature person has the ability to reason and respond to FACTS as well as present them on behalf of their argument. You’ve done none of the above.
Having said that, here’s an article Brock Strasser first brought to our attention in Issue #161.
Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: Is it overstated?
Clin J Sport Med 1999 Jan;9(1):34-9 (ISSN: 1050-642X)
Dickerman RD; Pertusi RM; Zachariah NY; Dufour DR; McConathy WJ
The Department of Biomedical Science, University of North Texas Health Science Center, Fort Worth 76107-2699, USA.
OBJECTIVE: There have been numerous reports of hepatic dysfunction secondary to anabolic steroid use based on elevated levels of serum aminotransferases. This study was conducted to distinguish between serum aminotransaminase elevations secondary to intense resistance training and anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity in elite bodybuilders.
DESIGN: This was a case-control study of serum chemistry profiles from bodybuilders using and not using anabolic steroids with comparisons to a cohort of medical students and patients with hepatitis.
PARTICIPANTS: The participants were bodybuilders taking self-directed regimens of anabolic steroids (n = 15) and bodybuilders not taking steroids (n = 10). Blood chemistry profiles from patients with viral hepatitis (n = 49) and exercising and nonexercising medical students (592) were used as controls.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The focus in blood chemistry profiles was aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT), gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (GGT), and creatine kinase (CK) levels.
RESULTS: In both groups of bodybuilders, CK, AST, and ALT were elevated, whereas GGT remained in the normal range. In contrast, patients with hepatitis had elevations of all three enzymes: ALT, AST, and GGT. Creatine kinase (CK) was elevated in all exercising groups. Patients with hepatitis were the only group in which a correlation was found between aminotransferases and GGT.
CONCLUSION: Prior reports of anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity based on elevated aminotransferase levels may have been overstated, because no exercising subjects, including steroid users, demonstrated hepatic dysfunction based on GGT levels. Such reports may have misled the medical community to emphasize steroid-induced hepatotoxicity when interpreting elevated aminotransferase levels and disregard muscle damage. For these reasons, when evaluating hepatic function in cases of anabolic steroid therapy or abuse, CK and GGT levels should be considered in addition to ALT and AST levels as essential elements of the assessment.
Now I?m sure that if someone "lived" on oral steroids (by oral, I?m referring to those that are alpha alkylated at carbon 17) week in and week out for years, he?d end up with serious health issues. But based on what you?ve written, I?d guess that your boyfriend (without knowing anything else about him) will handle this quite well and if he eats and trains correctly, he should gain upwards of 10 to12 pounds of solid muscle from this cycle.
I?d suggest he consider adding in an anti-aromatase (Arimidex) or anti-estrogen (Nolvadex, Clomid) during the time he?s on D-bol and for one week after.
He should also expect significant testicular atrophy post cycle because he?s not using HCG (an injectable). Had you two agreed on HCG use, he probably would keep 4 to 8 pounds additional muscle, making his net gain anywhere from 14 to 20 pounds.
HAHA, I have to say that this thread has been quite entertaining to say the least. Thanks UKFitGuy and DocT for some great reading!! Oh by the way…Doc T you win!
Ouch Penny, all those homophobic insults hurt! Especially considering Im hetero…shame you think that because I’m a professional dancer (probably ten times fitter then you darling…)I’m gay. Deary me, some of you yanks really are as thick as pig-shit.
Penny dear, if you wanna look like a bloke then carry on body building, I’m sure you’ll look fantastic with a couple of silicon implants sticking out on top of yer pecs…and if you really wanna look huge then why dont you take some roids for a few years, you’ll have a lovely deep masculine voice and a lovely enlarged labia, that’ll really turn the guys on!
DocT, I’m really intrigued as to why you dont think the medical profession have as much knowledge as body builders do re steroids. Steroids are widely used and presribed for many things in medicine, only properly controlled and regulated. OFCOURSE Doctors know about steroids. Why would body builders, their access to medical research much more limited, have superior knowledge? Where do they get their info from? From pro steroid web sites, from word of mouth at the gym, they dont have the same access to information. If you really think that a few tablets that can increase you size in a matter of weeks arent bad for you then you really are, well, I dunno waht to say, disillusioned. Dont give me nonsense about aspirin being as toxic, you dont do a six week course of aspirin, have a break then go onto another course of another drug, then do another cycle etc etc…
I think we have to agree to disagree. Personally I prefer to look fit and to be fit, not look big and be unfit. I like being able to go for a 2 mile jog or swim, as well as being able to sprint and lift decent weights. I like to know my hearts healthier then most’s and I’m not taking any toxic substances just to look a certain way. I understand that you and others on here dont agree and prefer something else. Good luck to you.
“DocT, I’m really intrigued as to why you dont think the medical profession have as much knowledge as body builders do re steroids. Steroids are widely used and presribed for many things in medicine, only properly controlled and regulated.”
I don’t see why you’re intrigued. I’m IN THE PROFESSION!!! I’ve done the medical school thing. I talk to other doctors on a daily basis. I understand the average level of knowledge about anabolic steroids in the profession. I don’t see how you continually ignore this and dismiss my arguments.
Anabolic steroids are NOT widely used in medicine. In fact, they’re rarely used and grossly misunderstood. For you to claim otherwise is simply perpetuating your misinformed argument.
“If you really think that a few tablets that can increase you size in a matter of weeks arent bad for you then you really are, well, I dunno waht to say, disillusioned.”
Food can increase your size in a few weeks if you eat enough. Bad for you? Weight training can increase your size in a few weeks. Bad for you? Your simplistic logic is baffling.
"Dont give me nonsense about aspirin being as toxic, you dont do a six week course of aspirin, have a break then go onto another course of another drug, then do another cycle etc etc… "
Aspirin, when used in the long term at full doses, causes ulcers and, when combined with other hepatotoxins, can cause liver damage. Most steroid cycles are limited by hormonal factors, not toxicity factors. Do you have any idea what you’re talking about?
The one thing we agree on is that we disagree. You claim that there’s no possibility of being bigger than you and still being “fit.” Perhaps you’re the epitomy of health and “fitness.” Perhaps your ego is getting the better of you. It’s kinda like driving down the highway (on the right side of course…we’re not heathens). Anybody driving slower than you is a “grandma,” and anybody driving faster than you is an “idiot.” People bigger or smaller than you aren’t necessarily more or less “fit.” Your own personal biases are getting in the way of reasonable thinking.
UKFitguy where was this thought that “Anyone bigger then you, isn’t fit” pounded into your head? Ever hear of the NFL? The majority of O-lineman there are FAR more conditioned, and have FAR more endurance then the average joe you mentioned earlier.
It’s like DocT said, you simply repeat that anyone bigger then you isn’t “fit.” And to you, that validates being smaller and not getting bigger. It is as simple as that.
Lets not lose sight of the fact that Mr. Pitt is a highly compensated actor who earns his living with his body. He has all day to train, has access to any type of roids he needs, cosmetic surgery etc. Doesn’t have a lot of stress etc. An ideal situation for someone working on his looks. Add to the fact that most store front photographers can do wonders with lighting, imagine what a movie industry professional can do with an unlimited budget and the freedom to edit the final product.
cleric,
whoa! i don’t question your desire to look more ripped. i too though brad looked fit in fight club but please don’t talk about losing all your body fat. it’s dangerous, you need a certain amount of fat to support your immune system. it’s there for a reason.
at any rate the best thing you can do is create a caloric deficiency in your diet while maintaining your workout regimen. don’t go nutz or you’ll look ripped but unwell.
UKFitGuy,
People who can’t run two miles are unfit, in a way. But so are people who can’t bench their bodyweight, squat 1.5 times it, and deadlift 2 times it. People who can’t carry a keg up a flight of stairs. People who can’t do the splits.
Fitness is all in your point of view. The "unfit" guy who can't run two miles would probably crush you in an armwrestling or powerlifting contest.
As to the Brad Pitt physique, if someone wants it, they should go for it. Who cares? I don't mind if people go for the "Arnold" physique, even though that's not my goal. To each their own.
Here’s what I was talking about.
There is a near universal misconception that long distance athletes are fitter that their short distance counterparts. The triathlete, cyclist, and marathoner are often regarded as among the fittest athletes on earth. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The endurance athlete has trained long past any cardiovascular health benefit and has lost ground in strength, speed, and power, typically does nothing for coordination, agility, balance, and accuracy and possesses little more than average flexibility. This is hardly the stuff of elite athleticism. The CrossFit athlete, remember, has trained and practiced for optimal physical competence in all ten physical skills (cardiovascular/respiratory endurance, stamina, flexibility, strength, power, speed, coordination, agility, balance, and accuracy). The excessive aerobic volume of the endurance athlete's training has cost him in speed, power, and strength to the point where his athletic competency has been compromised. No triathlete is in ideal shape to wrestle, box, pole-vault, sprint, play any ball sport, fight fires, or do police work. Each of these requires a fitness level far beyond the needs of the endurance athlete. None of this suggests that being a marathoner, triathlete or other endurance athlete is a bad thing; just don't believe that training as a long distance athlete gives you the fitness that is prerequisite to many sports. CrossFit considers the Sumo Wrestler, triathlete, marathoner, and power lifter to be "fringe athletes" in that their fitness demands are so specialized as to be inconsistent with the adaptations that give maximum competency at all physical challenges. Elite strength and conditioning is a compromise between each of the ten physical adaptations. Endurance athletes do not balance that compromise.
From "crossfit.com"
I have this same damn argument every once in a while with a body for lifer I work with. He is a 6 foot 1 165lb “man” granted, he is lean, 5-6 percent bodyfat, but I would not want to look like that, OR more importantly perform in the gym like that. Typically having that low of a body fat is not the most healthy way to be, I am not saying it is bad, but most athletes perform best at a higher bf (10-12%). I think to each his own, if you want to look like Brad Pitt, so be it, dont rip people who dont though, if you want to look like a bodybuilder same goes for you. Train to suit your needs, NOT your wants.
DocT, please see the following article
Encyclopedia of Sports Medicine and Science anabstereff/anabstereff.html
or this one
www.steroidinformation.com/ sideeffects.htm
or this
www.well.com/user/ woa/fsroids.htm
and this one, particularly as contributions have been made by Gary Wadler, a renound expert on drug use in sport, he’s also advised the British Atheltics Federation (which isnt mentioned below) which is where I’ve heard of him before (and all due respect, I’d rather believe a world wide acclaimed expert prfoessor then you mate)
http://espn.go.com/ special/s/drugsandsports/steroids.html
I’d also like to mention a few names… Florence Griffith-Joyner (died prematurely from alleged doping abuse) Andreas Krieeger (formerly Heidi Krieger, she used steroids for so long that she ended up havinbg a sex change because her body became so masculinised)Diane Williams (US sprinter and medalist at Olympics and World champs) who used to have to shave her face because of hair growth from taking steroids and who’s health has completely deteriorated, the numerous former throwers in athletics that have died in their 40’s, the former East German swimmers that are suing their government for their health problems caused by steroid administration (which inceidentaly was very controlled and monitored,yet still fucked their bodies up)
I’d also like to pick you up on your comments about food and weight training also putting weight on in a number of weeks… come on YOU are simplyfying now, steroids can increase bulk much much more then food and natural training, dont be so pathetic.
And re aspirin, what a stupid comment. ALL drugs and medicines have side effects and contra-indications! The difference is steroids are used recreationally and not for what they were intended medically/professionally. Users dont just take a course (as you would in most prescribed drug situations) and then finish, they carry on and stack them and mix them etc etc. This is not healthy, as simple as that. How many people do you know that take aspirin longe term at full dose other then prescribed to them by their GP? And if they were taken long term as prescribed, the patient has been directed to do so by a trained medical professional who oversees the course. Steroids are recreational drugs just like Heroin, Cocaine and ecstacy that are dangerous and abused by the people that take them. They arent illegal for nothing, it is for a reason!
You say you’re a GP, what are you, a quack?
I’m shocked by the lack of decent responses to this question. I’d help the guy out if I could, but he’s probably more experienced than I am – I certainly wish I knew the answer. People, in case you haven’t noticed, Brad Pitt is considered about the sexiest man alive. From my experience, the vast majority of women actually consider body builders “gross” rather than attractive. There’s nothing wrong with a guy wanting a physique more like Michelangelo’s David than The Incredible Hulk. To each their own. He didn’t come here to be berated, he came here because he was of the opinion that there would be knowledgable and helpful people who’d be happy to give him advice. Anyone like that here?
actually, most athletes perform better at a lower bodyfat than 10-12% because they have less worthless tissue to carry around. Its all about the means used to acheive the lower body fat percentage, if they comprimise the metabolic functions of the athlete, they should be avoided.