Twice a Week Lifting, Questions

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

Hi guys! I’m here to ask about lifting routines for the busy people here. Due to finally finishing my studies in law and starting my career and recently having moved with my gf, I only have time to workout twice a week. I work 6 days a week and I try to help out in the household as much as I can (my gf works long hours aswel ‘til the evening), so unfortunately I can’t spend as much time in the gym as I would like to.

I have been looking into two day a week programs like the articles of Dan John on T-Nation and it seems that it’s possible to gain muscle/get leaner/stronger with only two days a week. To clarify, I’m just an average guy trying to look good naked and in board shorts at the beach. I also enjoy lifting and getting stronger and I have lower back issues which have bettered tremendously since I started lifting. I started out at 125lbs (6ft), very skinny. Fast forward two years and I’m at 160lbs.

Now for the lifting part of the question… I was planning on alternating bench/deadlift and OHP/squat monday/thursday. I’ve had a shoulder injury and had to lay off the gym for two months so I’m planning on regaining strength doing ramping sets of 5 (as explained by Dan John is a great way to get stonger in a linear fashion) and following his 10 rep-deadlift advice (either 5 sets of 2 of 5-3-2 reps both ramping). When I stall I’ll probably switch to 531 for the strength part of the workout. As for accessories, I’ll do those with 3-4 straight sets in the 8-10 rep range after the strength part. Something like: (alternating workouts) 1 shoulder/chest exercise (shoulder p. or incline p.), 1 pressing/hip hinge exercise, 1 horizontal/vertical pull (might sneak in some more high rowing for my shoulder), 1 biceps and triceps exercise. I train my core at home on off days.

What do you think about this? I saw my best gains when doing something similar like this split over an upper/lower fashion 3-4 days a week. A strength part and hypertrophy part style workout.

Secondly, as far as nutrition goes I’m lost. Normally I’d eat pretty much the same calories each day since I was active each day. Now I’ll be fairly sedentary and lifting twice a week. Hope to get in some sprints in the morning on off days for conditioning. Should I cycle my calories? How should I do this?

Thanks! And sorry for the long post, I tend to get carried away when talking about lifting and give too many details :slight_smile:

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Probably in this article you can find all the info you need.

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Dude, you weigh 160 lbs. Let’s be real here. ‘calorie cycling’ is an advanced concept that is just not something you need to be concerned with. You should be eating sufficiently to grow EVERY DAY. If you want to eat a little bit more on your training days, just do that in the form of workout/post workout nutrition, and that will be fine.

As far as your routine goes, is there a reason you can’t just do the Dan John 2 day program as-is? Do you have to frankenstein your own program? You’re a beginner, and beginners just don’t really have any business putting together their own programs.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for lifting. Just keep in mind that very enthusiastic lifters who are also beginners tend to get ahead of themselves with diet and training. Keep it simple for now. Run a pre-written program exactly as it’s written, and eat enough to grow. Eat clean when you can. That’s it.

Last note: l love the Dan John 2 day program. It’s exactly the program I would run now if I could only get to the gym a couple times a week, and I may actually run it for a couple months to end this year.

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4

Because… The way I outlined the program is actually 99% of what Dan John says. Except for bench pressing/overhead pressing/squatting with sets of 10 reps ramping. He’s talking about pressing 315 for an amrap set, I’m still lucky to be benching 225 for 1 on a good day… I reckon that sets of 5 will be more beneficial for me at this stage since most beginner programs use sets of 5.

As for accessories… I used his template. The difference here is that I use straight sets instead of his method (50% 10rm for 10, 75% 10rm for 5 and 10rm amrap - which should be 10 reps). I’ll be doing 8-10 reps with 1-2 reps in reserve to make up for the lost volume on my main two ‘strength’ exercises of the day.

Just used his template and tweaked it to my level.

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If your 1RM is 225, your 10RM is prolly 165-170.
If you’re doing 5x50%, 5x75%, and AMRAP, how exactly are you ending up with a 315 AMRAP?

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if this was your takeaway from what he said, I fear for your reading comprehension skills. He just used 315 as an example number. You have to plug in numbers that make sense for you.

You’re 2 years into lifting. I’m pretty sure you’re at the point where you can handle sets of 10… lol. I’m not sure how you came up with ‘beginners benefit more from sets of 5’. That makes absolutely no sense, I’ve never even heard someone say that before today.

Your tweaks are dumb, and they completely change the program. Don’t do that. You didn’t ‘tweak it to your level’. You changed basic concepts of the program. Changing sets of 10 to sets of 5 isn’t a tweak, it’s an entirely different program. You cut the volume in half on that lift, lol.

Tweaking a program to your level doesn’t involve change rep ranges, it should involve using a weight that is manageable to you.

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This simply isn’t true. Maybe most beginner programs popular on the internet use sets of 5, but that’s mainly because those programs are copying each other in a bid for popularity. Look at the beginner program Paul Kelso suggests in “Powerlifting Basics Texas Style”: no sets of 5 to be found. What about all the programs in The Complete Keys to Progress? Very few sets of 5. All the programs in Stuart McRobert’s Brawn? few, if any, sets of 5. Etc, etc.

Don’t just stick with 1 rep range, ESPECIALLY as a beginner. Develop strength all over. Zero reason to specialize so early.

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I was under the impression that the closer to your 1rm percentage you’re lifting, the easier it would be to add weight to the bar. For example, adding 5lbs to a 5rm would mean a relatively lower jump in weight than adding 5lbs to a 10rm.

I was also under the impression that 5 reps are the perfect blend of powerlifting/hypertrophy. Since powerlifting is mainly in de <5 rep range and bodybuilders rarely use anything below that. But then again, many powerlifters only use lower ranges as comp prep right?

I’ll stick to the program as it is written. Can you elaborate on the ramping sets a bit? I read that ramping primes your CNS for the heaviest working set, but it shouldn’t be done in a traditional pyramid style as you want to manage fatigue as much as possible. The heaviest working set is where the ‘magic’ happens, but I think it’s Christian Thibaudeau that said that anything above 60% 1rm is enough to induce growth/CNS adaptations. Does this also count for anything that’s less that 4 reps shy from failure? Other articles that I’ve read talk about ‘effective reps’, which are the reps close to failure.

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It is until it isn’t, and then you stall. Meanwhile, a wider variety of rep ranges allows you to progress in MANY ways aside from simply adding weight to the bar. You can improve bar speed, hypertrophy, add reps, etc.

This sounds like you’ve been reading too much internet. Many of the best powerlifters use a variety of rep ranges, especially in the off season. And there is no prescribed rep amount of bodybuilding.

There is nothing magical about rep range. There is no mechanism in your body that can count reps. It’s not as though your body goes “Ok, that was rep 5, shift into strength mode WAIT …6…7…8…the godddamn lunatic just did 3 more, OK BOYS, time to transfer into hypertrophy mode!” It’s all about how the rep ranges play into an overall program. Spending time in lower reps improves your skill at handling heavier weights, which is helpful if you compete in a sport where you have to move max poundages in a handful of movements, but if your aim is to get bigger and stronger, you want a variety of rep ranges employed.

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11

5/3/1 would be another good option, doubling up the lifts with the original program (PR sets)works well, (squat/bench one day, deadlift/press the other). All I can really fit in these days is the 2x2x2 program but progress is still good. Even with assistance it can be done under an hour. The 2 days should also help your shoulder with the extra time away from weights.

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12

I am in the same boat and got some excellent advice from OSU122975 who like the others above has way more experience than myself. I would post my template but there’s some huge adjustments due to wanting to currently progress my bouldering and I dropped the squat as it negatively affects me due to mobility reasons, I trapbar deadlift instead. I found Dan John, 531, GSLP and the barbell prescription all gave similar programmes but used different rep ranges and ramping strategies (don’t all shoot me down for this line, I meant similar in principles i.e. don’t go above 90% often). I picked the simplest one and the one I’m most motivated for.

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I think it’s hard to fck up on a 2 day a week program if it’s focussed on the big compounds and basic movement patterns and has some form of progression scheme, wether it’s ramping sets of 5 or 10 or whatever. I’m planning on milking the linear progress train again since I quit lifting for a while due to my shoulder. But after that 531 would be the best option for me I guess. It only has 1 amrap set which doesn’t give me too much room to fck around too close to failure all the time, which I tend to do.

One thing they all have incommon ‘tho is the amrap set. Seems as if this is the meta for measuring progress in a lot of programs.

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If time is limited, I like the agonist/antagonist approach. You need mass so I’d be looking at more of a powerbuilding program.

Have a push/pull day and then a legs day.

Day 1

  • one compound movement for pressing and pulling (ex: incline bench and barbell rows). go back and forth between them. take whatever rest you need. work the last set as intense as you can handle before moving to the isolation work.

  • isolation work; 2 sets each for muscles worked (triceps/biceps/upper back/delts(preferably side or rear) and chest. work the last set of each exercise with intensity.

Day 2

  • squat or DL variation (front squat, back squat, block pulls, deficit pulls, etc.). same principles as Day 1 compound movement.
  • isolation work; quads/hamstrings/glutes/low back/calves/abs same principle as Day 1 isolation work.

Personally, I wouldn’t worry too much about the amount of weight or reps. Just work hard and make sure its heavy enough to make a difference. If you’re in doubt, anything on the last set over 20 reps is too light. Add weight. Keep adding 5lbs each week to the compound lifts until you basically can’t do a set of at least 5 reps.

The idea is to just go in there and work hard. Give it your all since you’re only gonna be in 2 days/week. This is the perfect time to push everything really hard and save your joints by not doing heavy 5’s and triples every time you’re there. Recovery should be at a max so make sure get plenty of sleep and plenty of calories(500-1000 over maintenance) and you will grow.

Good luck.

.

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That would put upper body and lower body frequency at 1 time a week. Isn’t it better to split up the upper and lower body workout throughout the week in two full body sessions? (Just wondering)

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16

I did this when I was busy in grad school:

This was a 2x a week program and fried me.

Going high reps now can be super helpful. Richard Hawthorne in an interview said that he rotates 10x10, 4x8, 8x4, and 3x3. He also deadlifts 600+ at 132

I also think you may be over thinking things. It may be super beneficial to follow a program as designed so you can do it on auto-pilot and think about things after a set time.

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Not necessarily. Some people like full body routines, and that’s fine, but it’s not necessary. I don’t prefer it.

You should do whatever suits you mentally. Whatever keeps you coming to the gym is the program that will work best for you. If you feel like you need to do full body workouts, do that. If you like longer breaks, do that.

Everything can work. It’s the effort you put into a program that makes the difference.

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Since time rather than motivation seems to be the main factor, you should look into body weight exercises you can do at home. You can work up a real sweat doing push ups or just squatting up and down for a hundred reps.

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First up, do I correctly infer you recently graduated from law school, passed the bar, and are embarking on your first job in the legal field? Whatever your recent educational and career accomplishments, congratulations!

Second, I think you have the right idea with twice-weekly, whole body workouts. Each person’s body responds differently to exercise. I’ve learnd that if I don’t work most muscle groups twice each week, I won’t progress. Experience and observation have led me to this understanding. I enjoy reading about training methods and the science and experience that goes into them, but I’ve learned to also listen to my body.

The message here is to assess what you’ve observed works for you. I get the sense you know your body responds best to twice weekly lifting sessions per muscle group. To that end, I think your combo of bench/deadlifts and OH press/squats is a great template for your goals and lifestyle. In wanting to make the most of your limited gym time, you’re getting bogged down in some details and giving training articles perhaps a little more weight than assessment of your own experience.

As others have said, lifting a variety of rep ranges will benefit you in many ways. Muscle fibers come in three types - fast twitch, slow twitch 1, and slow twitch 2. Each gets optimally recruited at different intensity levels.

I’ve found doing heavy work at 1-5 reps, medium work at 8-12, and light work at 12-15 or 15-20, gives me a balanced workout. I’ve also learned I enjoy and progress at each exercise using different rep ranges. For example, front squats feel great when I do 8 x 3 or 6 x 4, walking each set up 5-10 pounds, but my form goes to crap at 8 reps. When I bench, I never do less than 5 or 6 reps, because my shoulder doesn’t feel good from heavy barbell benching. With deadlifts, I either work up to a heavy 2 or 3 then do a backoff set, or I do a couple waves like 2-3-5, 2-3-5.

Perhaps that approach is more open-ended than you want right now, but don’t let your thinking be constrained to the narrow parameters of exact rep ranges for every type of lift. Each lift has its own movement pattern nuances. Because we each have different skeletal structures with unique leverages and motor patterns, a slightly different set/rep scheme will probably work best for each lifter (8 x 3 front squats instead of 3 x 8, for instance.)

Since your plan is based on deadlifts, bench press, squats, and OHP, which rep ranges have you noticed the most benefit from with those four exercises?

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Yes I did! Took me 7 years instead of 5 ‘tho (I was out for a hear due to surgery to my stomach, that’s why I only weighted 125lbs).

What you said in your post is actually what I’ve been thinking a lot, rather than having set ranges for certain exercises, doing the best rep range for that exercise for YOU.

One quick remark, I don’t do well on straight sets. I’ve tried 3/5x5 programs and after a heavy set my strength seems to go down the drain no matter how long I rest. What style of programming is best suited for this? Ramping sets or reverse pyramid?

Regarding the rep ranges:

  • Bench press is hard on my shoulders so the 6-8 (maybe 10) feels better. 5 and below is all delts and shit form. 6 to 8 is where I feel my chest well and still have control over the weight. 8-10 feels more fatigueing than actually doing something for my muscles.
  • deadlift: sets of 5 and up kill me (could work on conditioning). I think 3 sets is best for me, below that I let my form slip.
  • squat: not too heavy and not too many reps, 4-8 I’d say. My thigs grow a lot quicker than the rest of my body, doesn’t matter what I do for them. (Went from size 27 to 32 Eu in pants… Although it’s way too lose at my waist)
  • ohp: made great progress with 3-5 reps but that fckd up my shoulder… Maybe a bit higher like the BP
  • rows/pulls: 6-8 is where I feel my muscles being worked best and the weight isn’t too heavy
  • biceps: definately heavy curls (6-10)
  • triceps: bit higher reps, 8-15 depending on the exercise (skullcrushers or pushdowns)

What does this info tell you?

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Congrats on getting through it all, especially with a year of recuperation!

The list you gave of movents and rep ranges sounds quite similar in ways to how my body responds to exercises. I’ve been experimenting with different set/rep schematics, which is how I realized I like different reps for each exercise. Here’s my take on your bullet points:

  • For the last several years, 75 percent of my horizontal pressing is flat and low incline dumbbell presses and pushups. I keep the DB press reps at 7-10 and get volume with pushups. I start with holding the dumbbells in a neutral grip, then transition to around 45* as the weights get heavier. I’m able to smoke my pecs AND keep my shoulders happy by doing 4-5 sets of dumbbell presses at 8-10 reps, walking the weights up 5-10 pounds each set, then burning out with 3 sets of pushups. Occasionally, I’ll do barbell incline bench or close grip bench for a month or six weeks to change things up, but I keep the reps at 6 or more.
  • For deadlifts, do you do 3 total sets or 3 work sets after a ramping warm-up? I love warming up before deadlifts with supersets of 2 x 15 face pulls and 2 x 15-20 back extensions. I walk up the deadlifts from 135 x 10 to 185 x 6, then I keep all subsequent sets low, doing just a couple reps to let my body adjust to increasing weight. I’ve no idea how much weight you use, but you could do a light warm-up, a second warm-up set, then go 4 x 2-3, increasing each set by 15-30 pounds, depending on your strength levels. That could look something like 135 x 8, 185 x 5, 205 x 3, 225 x 3, 245 x 3, 265 x 2. Just bump the numbers up or down to match your current strength level. When you do 3 reps for all 4 sets, increase the weights by 10-20 pounds for the work sets. A final note about conditioning and deadlifts - after finishing my heavy sets, I do an AMRAP burnout with 225 (you can use any weight for this). It gets my lungs heaving and burns my traps and grip; it also greatly increases my deadlifting endurance.
  • For squats, do what motivates and excites you. Within the rep ranges you listed, 6 x 4, 5 x 5, 4 x 6, 3 x 8 all work. You could do 5 x 5 for six weeks or so, deload, then change to 3 x 8 to increase squatting endurance.
  • The pronated grip of barbells messes with my shoulders, too. I’ve found push presses let me lift heavy without putting as much strain directly on my shoulder joints. What feels best for me is single-arm, neutral grip dumbbell presses in the 8-12 rep range. Perhaps try 6 weeks or so of neutral grip DB presses instead of heavy shoulder pressing, or working up to 2 x 6 push presses, then burning out with 1 or 2 lights sets of neutral grip dumbbells, going for high reps, like 15 or more.
  • On bench day, do an equal number of sets of rows. Since you’re deadlifting first, do seated cable rows, hammer strength rows, or single arm dumbbell rows. Do X set for 6-8 reps, and increase weights when you’re doing 8 for all sets/your top set. A note about pyramids vs. straight sets - both work. Sometimes I love feeling the deep fatigue of 5 x 10 dumbbell rows with the same weight. The next week, I might feel like ramping up to a single, heaviest set. The next week, I might want to do lighter weight, supinated grip rows with 3-second negatives. For whatever reason with rows, I give myself the emotional leeway to be purely led by how I feel that day. As long as I match my benching volume, I let the row be a row and go with what seems like it’ll feel good. For pullups, match the number of OHP sets. I like to do a pronated grip warm up, 3 x 5 neutral grip with inreasing weight around my waist, then a bodyweight burnout with whichever grip seems best that day. Conversely, sometimes I scrap pullups and do light pulldowns, focusing on the mind-muscle connection and really making my lats burn.
  • For biceps, it sounds like you know what works, so stick with it. I like to curl, so I do at least 2 sets each workout. You could do 3 x 12 dumbbell curls one day and 3 x 6 barbell curls the other.
  • My elbows also feel best with higher rep, lighter weight triceps work. I recently started doing Paul Carter’s 3 x 50 for some accessories, including standing, 2-arm DB triceps extensions, and it works great. The idea of 3 x 50 is to aim for 50 total reps in 3 sets. Increase the weight when you do 50. A triceps extension workout might have sets of 18-14-11, for 43 total reps. I’d stick with that weight next time.

This reply is long, so I’ll write a second reply with a possible split and a training log link that’s almost exactly what you’re planning to do.