I am thinking of trying Pavels Power to the People for a while.
If you could use one of Trap Bar Deadlift or Barbell Deadlift what would you use?
I have had many lower back injuries in the past.
You will find the trap bar a better alternative given your injury history. You may be interested to know that the guy who invented the trap bar did so because of his own back injury history.
[quote]sharetrader wrote:
You will find the trap bar a better alternative given your injury history. You may be interested to know that the guy who invented the trap bar did so because of his own back injury history.[/quote]
I prefer a trap bar.
What’s the source of the back injuries? As long as its not the spine I would still choose the regular barbell. Trap bar will definitely help you work around the back injury but doesn’t quite have the same overall benefits of a barbell.
I used the trap bar a lot after shoulder surgery in 2005 because the hand placement put less stress on the tendon. When I finally went back to barbell deads I was shocked at how weak I was on it. taking the back benefits out of the deadlift means you’re just going to end up with strong traps and legs and a weak(er) lower back that’s going to be prone to further injury down the road.
My 2 cents is you would be better off rehabbing the back with light barbell deadlifts and a lot of assistance type of exercises such as back and hip extensions, hypers and reverse hyps, rdls, etc.
[quote]robo1 wrote:
What’s the source of the back injuries? As long as its not the spine I would still choose the regular barbell. Trap bar will definitely help you work around the back injury but doesn’t quite have the same overall benefits of a barbell.
I used the trap bar a lot after shoulder surgery in 2005 because the hand placement put less stress on the tendon. When I finally went back to barbell deads I was shocked at how weak I was on it. taking the back benefits out of the deadlift means you’re just going to end up with strong traps and legs and a weak(er) lower back that’s going to be prone to further injury down the road.
My 2 cents is you would be better off rehabbing the back with light barbell deadlifts and a lot of assistance type of exercises such as back and hip extensions, hypers and reverse hyps, rdls, etc.[/quote]
I don’t agree with your reasoning at all. The trap bar is far superior, especially from an injury prevention standpoint. You don’t “rehab” a lower back injury with light bb deadlifts. Your statement about “Taking the back benefits out” is ridiculous.
The DL puts a ton of unnecessary stress on the lower back, so if one can minimize that by using the trap bar then thats great. If i were you (the original poster) i wouldnt do bilateral dls at all until your back is much better. I prefer 1-leg SLDLs.
I did PTTP for a while when the book fisrt came out, I used a srtaight bar and pulled conventional.
I worked up to a raw double body weight deadlift.(It was good for me)
The PTTP workout requires deadlifting 5 times a week, at this point in my life I would prefer doing that with a Trap bar.
I’ve been considering doing Pavel’d Russian Bear routine for hypertrophy, there is no way in HELL i would try that with a barbell. MY CNS would revolt.
[quote]bruinsdmb wrote:
I don’t agree with your reasoning at all. The trap bar is far superior, especially from an injury prevention standpoint. You don’t “rehab” a lower back injury with light bb deadlifts. Your statement about “Taking the back benefits out” is ridiculous.
The DL puts a ton of unnecessary stress on the lower back, so if one can minimize that by using the trap bar then thats great. If i were you (the original poster) i wouldnt do bilateral dls at all until your back is much better. I prefer 1-leg SLDLs. [/quote]
How do you ever get plan on getting your lower back stronger if you don’t directly work it?
Use proper form and you’ll be fine.
Like Louie Simmons said, “the most effective exercises are usually the ones that people think are the riskiest or most dangerous.”
Nothing works my lower and mid back, traps, and lats like conventional deadlifts. Nothing.
[quote]bruinsdmb wrote:
I don’t agree with your reasoning at all. The trap bar is far superior, especially from an injury prevention standpoint. You don’t “rehab” a lower back injury with light bb deadlifts. Your statement about “Taking the back benefits out” is ridiculous.
The DL puts a ton of unnecessary stress on the lower back, so if one can minimize that by using the trap bar then thats great. If i were you (the original poster) i wouldnt do bilateral dls at all until your back is much better. I prefer 1-leg SLDLs. [/quote]
Why is my statement ridiculous? please enlighten me. I guess we view the purpose of the deadlift differently. This ``unnecessary’’ stress you speak of is very necessary to my strength development. That’s just me though. Trap bar all you want champ. You’re just avoiding the lower back work you’ll eventually need.
[quote]robo1 wrote:
What’s the source of the back injuries? As long as its not the spine I would still choose the regular barbell. Trap bar will definitely help you work around the back injury but doesn’t quite have the same overall benefits of a barbell.
[/quote]
Back in my 20 rep squat/DL I was bad on keeping good form and it lead to my first severe lower back injury.
I then switched to TBDL. I got up to 5x5 with 330 lbs. I was doing TBDL twice a week with no injuries.
Last year I decided to get into burpees. While doing burpees I injured my lower back with crippling agonizing pain. I reinjured my back continously all year every 2 or 3 months.
Now I’m afraid to do anything!
[quote]sharetrader wrote:
You will find the trap bar a better alternative given your injury history. You may be interested to know that the guy who invented the trap bar did so because of his own back injury history.[/quote]
Sharetrader is right, It ws invented by a competitive POWERLIFTER named Al Gerard.
He used the Trapbar Deadlift as his only lowerbody movement, he used it to replace deadlifts AND squats in his pre-comp training.
He would switch to a barbell to practice just before a comp.
I don’t understand why people act as if the TBDL invloves zero lower back. It does invlove the lower back.
For more detail on the origins of the trap bar, as well as its advantages, read these two articles:
http://www.naturalstrength.com/weightroom/detail.asp?ArticleID=145
http://www.naturalstrength.com/weightroom/detail.asp?ArticleID=146
As you will see from the articles, Al Gerard seems to have had little difficulty in keeping his strength for the barbell deadlift up by primarily using the trap bar.
BTW, for many people the hexagonal shaped shrug bar is preferable to the diamond shaped trap bar because it provides more room for your knees.
The program I am doing now calls for squats and deadlifts the same workout. I never do the deads after the squats. My lower couldn’t handle it. So today I went with trapbar deads. First time in over 6 months doing these. These work my lower back significantly.
Thank you for all the responses.
Crossfit had a video a couple of weeks ago demonstrating the DL with a barbell. The guy in the video described the DL as a healing excercise. I was thinking the barbell DL may stregthen my back more than the trap bar. (?)
I’d go with the trap bar.
I always found the conventional deadlift to be an awkward exercise. In contrast, the first time I lifted with a trap bar I felt right in the groove. The weight hangs naturally from my shoulders rather than out in front of me, my hands are in the neutral grip position, and I’m not scraping my shins on the bar. I’ve never had grip strength issues with TBDLs.
It’s not clear to me that the TBDL is less effective than the conventional DL in working the lower back musculature. My understanding is that it puts less stress on the spine itself, but the muscles should still get the same workout. (I’ll defer to those more knowledgeable if I’m misinformed on this.)
By the way, I just completed 8 weeks of training TBDLs only, no squats. I reintroduced back squats into my workouts this week, and was pleased to find that I had added 30 pounds to my previous 5-rep max. So Al Gerard’s idea of training for the squat by doing only TBDLs seems to work for me.
(In the interest of scientific accuracy, I should note that I’ve been in a serious bulking phase, which probably accounts for a fair portion of that strength increase.)
I prefer the Barbell because I think barbell deadlifts make you better at power cleans.
And trap bars dont hold many bumper plates
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
And trap bars dont hold many bumper plates[/quote]
That is valid point.
I have a 1" PDA trapbar, as of yet I can still load it to a weight I can’t lift. I have several sets of 50’s. I have loaded up to 500 for partials.
I believe PDA builds a special olympic trap bar that can hold 700 pounds of iron plates.
[quote]Dirty Tiger wrote:
I believe PDA builds a special olympic trap bar that can hold 700 pounds of iron plates.
[/quote]
Indeed they do. It is pictured above.
[quote]eic wrote:
Dirty Tiger wrote:
I believe PDA builds a special olympic trap bar that can hold 700 pounds of iron plates.
Indeed they do. It is pictured below:
[/quote]
Yeah that’s it. It looks like you could fit 800+ on that bar.
[quote]Dirty Tiger wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
You will find the trap bar a better alternative given your injury history. You may be interested to know that the guy who invented the trap bar did so because of his own back injury history.
Sharetrader is right, It ws invented by a competitive POWERLIFTER named Al Gerard.
He used the Trapbar Deadlift as his only lowerbody movement, he used it to replace deadlifts AND squats in his pre-comp training.
He would switch to a barbell to practice just before a comp.
I don’t understand why people act as if the TBDL invloves zero lower back. It does invlove the lower back.[/quote]
yep i manged to stuff my back going for a 600lb pr with the trap bar deadlift (i was already a little tender from throwing shot the previous day)
there is a lot of carry over to at least snatch grip deadlifts from a 2 inch block, where i improved to do triples at 420lbs