Training/Tricks for Frustrated 'About to be 40'

[quote]MCLAY101 wrote:
That’s a great way to look at it… TV is the worst form of boredom for me. I’d rather watch paint dry! :wink: Hey, if my back looked half as great as yours, I’d be happy. I’m going to ride out these last sessions and try to throw in my own thing (lightly, so I don’t get injured) and see what works. Glad I’ve gotten on this site for help. Really invaluable to have other eyes and “ears” [quote]doublelung84 wrote:
MCLAY101,

40’s hit hard, you just have to hit harder. That back fat thing you talked about; that’s where I have always carried it. It’s the first place it goes and the last place it leaves. Be glad it’s not in your chest, that’s not real attractive for men.

I was never a fan of the 5/3/1 but others have had good results with it. The big thing is to stay with it. When you find yourself wondering why you are in the gym, asK yourself what else you would be doing, watching T.V.? Then get back to work.[/quote]
[/quote]

Thanks but at at 48 y.o. and 32 years of lifting, that back barks in the morning when I get out of bed!

Bow hunting the only thing that makes me stop lifting. I plan my 2 weeks off around the rut.

Hi, MCLAY, welcome to the old folks home.

Just adding to what everyone else has said . . .

Your coach is “frustrated”. Lucky you. Most trainers are too clueless to notice whether their clients are gaining or not. I speak from painful experience.

You say you had good results with the coach. Do you remember exactly what he had you doing that was different from before?

Benching 125 with an all time record of 155. Yeah, that’s unusually low for a guy training for years. You may be in the same boat as me . . . 40 years training, and I only just hit 175 bench last year. I’ve also had a frustrated trainer, regular workouts just don’t work on me. I burn out way fast.

“And for me, I just feel better without eating rice/pasta/starches” That suggests you’re sensitive to gluten. If so, it will sabotage your gym work.

Your coach has you on a 3 day/week routine, 2 days lifting, one day conditioning. Any particular reason? That’s a bit unusual if you want to build up. Not saying it’s wrong . . . is he concentrating on getting your BF down more than getting stronger?

Shit! You’re YOUNG!! But that’s a lot’a years of training, guess it comes with the territory. Looks like a lot of fun… it’s really on the rise around here, friend of mine is trying to open a practice range here in the Raleigh area.

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]MCLAY101 wrote:
That’s a great way to look at it… TV is the worst form of boredom for me. I’d rather watch paint dry! :wink: Hey, if my back looked half as great as yours, I’d be happy. I’m going to ride out these last sessions and try to throw in my own thing (lightly, so I don’t get injured) and see what works. Glad I’ve gotten on this site for help. Really invaluable to have other eyes and “ears” [quote]doublelung84 wrote:
MCLAY101,

40’s hit hard, you just have to hit harder. That back fat thing you talked about; that’s where I have always carried it. It’s the first place it goes and the last place it leaves. Be glad it’s not in your chest, that’s not real attractive for men.

I was never a fan of the 5/3/1 but others have had good results with it. The big thing is to stay with it. When you find yourself wondering why you are in the gym, asK yourself what else you would be doing, watching T.V.? Then get back to work.[/quote]
[/quote]

Thanks but at at 48 y.o. and 32 years of lifting, that back barks in the morning when I get out of bed!

Bow hunting the only thing that makes me stop lifting. I plan my 2 weeks off around the rut.

[/quote]

Hey, thanks Cavalier… old folks got to workout TOO! :wink:
Hmmm… so, different than before? The BIGGEST difference is the conditioning b/c they have a 50 yard field inside and we’re able to do things my body has never experienced before this (like sleds, ropes, sprints, bear crawl, prowler.) Other than that, I think he didn’t anticipate me getting the bloat. I really like the guy… fresh out of college, but I think there’s a lot more that goes into his thought process which MAY be interrupted by the politics of the company he works for.

Maybe I have fallen victim to another cookie cutter ‘athletic training’ facility, claiming to be different. I’ve been serious about this for a while now… obssessive is maybe a better word.

I hear you on the gluten thing. I don’t think I’m allergic to it b/c i don’t get sick, but I really don’t even care for rice or pasta… go figure.

I don’t if he’s trying to get the max of what my body could do in 3 days a week? It’s every other day… so maybe it’s to keep me from burning out? Or to keep pain at a minimum? I’m not really sure. He says now he wants to realy focus on conditioning, which is fine. I think I can supplement with what I know and what you guys have suggested to see how far I can push it.

He was saying in the begining I had a lucky body type… now… not so much. Because he sees that I’m gonna blow UP with eating like a normal gainer… and I’m easy to get skinny and lanky! Oy Vey!

[quote]cavalier wrote:
Hi, MCLAY, welcome to the old folks home.

Just adding to what everyone else has said . . .

Your coach is “frustrated”. Lucky you. Most trainers are too clueless to notice whether their clients are gaining or not. I speak from painful experience.

You say you had good results with the coach. Do you remember exactly what he had you doing that was different from before?

Benching 125 with an all time record of 155. Yeah, that’s unusually low for a guy training for years. You may be in the same boat as me . . . 40 years training, and I only just hit 175 bench last year. I’ve also had a frustrated trainer, regular workouts just don’t work on me. I burn out way fast.

“And for me, I just feel better without eating rice/pasta/starches” That suggests you’re sensitive to gluten. If so, it will sabotage your gym work.

Your coach has you on a 3 day/week routine, 2 days lifting, one day conditioning. Any particular reason? That’s a bit unusual if you want to build up. Not saying it’s wrong . . . is he concentrating on getting your BF down more than getting stronger?

[/quote]

Hay MCLAY101,

I just had a thought; follow me on this. What are your goals and expectations?

OK.
Goals: Lower BF and get stronger
Expectations: To wake up one morning and be RIPPED! HA! I’m not delusional! I would expect to SEE results of the efforts; I manage my expectations on a daily basis b/c this is obviously not the easiest thing to figure out. So, tough one DoubleLung!

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:
Hay MCLAY101,

I just had a thought; follow me on this. What are your goals and expectations? [/quote]

[quote]MCLAY101 wrote:
OK.
Goals: Lower BF and get stronger
Expectations: To wake up one morning and be RIPPED! HA! I’m not delusional! I would expect to SEE results of the efforts; I manage my expectations on a daily basis b/c this is obviously not the easiest thing to figure out. So, tough one DoubleLung!

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:
Hay MCLAY101,

I just had a thought; follow me on this. What are your goals and expectations? [/quote]
[/quote]

Someone’s going to light me up for saying this but do you really need a trainer? Ya, it’s nice to have someone figure it out for you but I think you could manage on your own.

Personally, I feel we over think things too much. As long as you are being safe e.g. not benching heavy 3 days in a row, you will be fine. Maybe I know only 75% of what a trainer does, but (s)he knows less about me. And any trainer that tells you “I get to know my clients” is a good businessman. My wife knows more than anyone about me and I don’t want her as my trainer.

Don’t sell yourself short. Just my thoughts.

Haha… makes complete sense, great idea. I think I did pretty well on my own before and maybe that really IS the breaking point: that I need to branch back out. I can be very cerebral, but I find if I can’t wrap my mind around it, I can’t give it my all. I just had the thought that maybe rushing through to be done within an hour (3 x per week) is a minor pitfall; but cumulatively, maybe the ONE thing that’s interefered with gains.

I think in 6 months, I should’ve been able to bench more than 125 pounds though… regardless, considering all things we’ve discussed here. I DEFINITELY won’t be making it on his 6-month hall of fame wall. The before and after isn’t very impressive… okay, maybe my left cheek is perkier than it was 6 months ago… don’t think he’s going to post that anywhere!

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]MCLAY101 wrote:
OK.
Goals: Lower BF and get stronger
Expectations: To wake up one morning and be RIPPED! HA! I’m not delusional! I would expect to SEE results of the efforts; I manage my expectations on a daily basis b/c this is obviously not the easiest thing to figure out. So, tough one DoubleLung!

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:
Hay MCLAY101,

I just had a thought; follow me on this. What are your goals and expectations? [/quote]
[/quote]

Someone’s going to light me up for saying this but do you really need a trainer? Ya, it’s nice to have someone figure it out for you but I think you could manage on your own.

Personally, I feel we over think things too much. As long as you are being safe e.g. not benching heavy 3 days in a row, you will be fine. Maybe I know only 75% of what a trainer does, but (s)he knows less about me. And any trainer that tells you “I get to know my clients” is a good businessman. My wife knows more than anyone about me and I don’t want her as my trainer.

Don’t sell yourself short. Just my thoughts.[/quote]

I’ve been VERY disappointed with trainers, and I’ve had some world class people train me. Don’t assume someone with bulging muscles has any idea how to help you get stronger.

[quote]MCLAY101 wrote:
OK.
Goals: Lower BF and get stronger
Expectations: To wake up one morning and be RIPPED! HA! I’m not delusional! I would expect to SEE results of the efforts; I manage my expectations on a daily basis b/c this is obviously not the easiest thing to figure out. So, tough one DoubleLung!

[quote]

Im going to add my 2 cents for what little its worth. Pretty much every one else has covered everything.

  1. Defiantly focus on getting stronger! Not so that you can go and do a heavy 1 RM but are able to handle more weight on your general exercise for reps. Which in turn will help with hypertrophy faster.

2.Watch what you do eat… but make sure you are taking in enough to help support recovery and growth.

  1. Do keep doing some form of Cardio for the cardiovascular health.But dont over do it since it does cause a training stress that you do have to recover from.

3.Slap your trainer

you’re hilarious bulldog! I make sure to smack him at least ONCE during these sessions. I overhead pressed 95 pounds this morning (3 times) so I was pretty happy with that. It really IS trial and error, and I’m glad I have new insight from you guys. Keep telling myself “you’ve got YEARS of non-activity to make up for” and I am definitely not giving up.

It is just so weird to realize that things start to take shape from the ground, UP! Like, I notice my knees look better, but I don’t have a lot of chest definition yet. LOL. Or, the hands have to get stronger before I can actually hold a weight that will push my lanky arms to Grow! It’s annoying, but this is my lot and I’ve got to conquer it!

Thanks for the VALUABLE input man

[quote]bulldog9899 wrote:

Im going to add my 2 cents for what little its worth. Pretty much every one else has covered everything.

  1. Defiantly focus on getting stronger! Not so that you can go and do a heavy 1 RM but are able to handle more weight on your general exercise for reps. Which in turn will help with hypertrophy faster.

2.Watch what you do eat… but make sure you are taking in enough to help support recovery and growth.

  1. Do keep doing some form of Cardio for the cardiovascular health.But dont over do it since it does cause a training stress that you do have to recover from.

3.Slap your trainer [/quote]

Welcome, MCLAY101.

I don’t have much to add that has not already been stated, but I have been spending some time in the last few weeks reading other people’s logs on this site. I would suggest you do the same. I am in a similar boat to you, just a little bit younger, a little bit stronger and a whole lot fatter.

I’ve been absorbing other people’s thoughts on training, nutrition, goal-setting, mindset and just about every other facet of life that has some overlap with progressing in the weight room.

This is all driven home when you realize that, for the most part, there’s nothing special about anyone here other than the drive to improve. The excuses I was holding on to start to fall away when I look at the logs of guys and girls 10, 15 years older than me and seeing what they are able to accomplish.

Best of luck to you!

[quote]cavalier wrote:
I’ve been VERY disappointed with trainers, and I’ve had some world class people train me. Don’t assume someone with bulging muscles has any idea how to help you get stronger.[/quote]
Just a question.

Is it ALWAYS someone else’s fault or due to some illness or depression.

If you looked back at what they were trying to get you to do, how much was their knowledge base vs your inability/unwillingness to do what they told you to do?

Not trying to be a dick, but I have been on these boards for a very long time. You are the very last person on here that should give any advice period. Well I am a dick but it does not change the fact.

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]cavalier wrote:
I’ve been VERY disappointed with trainers, and I’ve had some world class people train me. Don’t assume someone with bulging muscles has any idea how to help you get stronger.[/quote]
Just a question.

Is it ALWAYS someone else’s fault or due to some illness or depression.

If you looked back at what they were trying to get you to do, how much was their knowledge base vs your inability/unwillingness to do what they told you to do?

Not trying to be a dick, but I have been on these boards for a very long time. You are the very last person on here that should give any advice period. Well I am a dick but it does not change the fact. [/quote]

I did exactly what they told me to do. They watched me and were satisfied I was doing it right.

They made no mention of seeing any illness holding me back. They gave me no treatment for depression, nor did anyone recommend I see someone else for treatment.

Don’t know what you mean by that crack about the last person to give advice, but I’ve been training in gyms for a total of 40 years by now and have seen a lot. I just post my experiences and call them as I see them.

[quote]MCLAY101 wrote:
I really think I just need to be pushed to the max with every workout and it all needs to be lifting and none of this sprinting shit. I pretty much know how to do all of these things on my own, but going up in weight on the major lifts is where I need the help. I definitely have areas to tighten up, but I was never obese, just looked like I swallowed a tire.

I have the same goal as anyone who would be in my situation, add lean mass and get rid of the excess fat size.[/quote]

DUDE!

I don’t post much any more, but I can offer some words, here. Like you I started late, I was a poor athlete, and I have lousy structure for being big or ripped. I’m 42, I have a full-time management career that makes me crazy, and five kids that make me even crazier. HOWEVER, I pulled it off. I’ve posted a photo here from last year.

Yes, I’m serious I have shitty structure. I really do. And I have shitty genetics for getting stronger or bigger. And If I can do this, ANYBODY can. Now let’s get down to it. Waddaya do?

  1. Well for starters, stop all this nonsense about feeling like you wasted time. A guy HAS to do what you’ve been doing as the starting point. It can’t be avoided. You’re recognizing you need to do better/more. Great. That’s a position of strength.

  2. The reason you are going nowhere in particular at the moment and are feeling frustrated is because you are trying to go in two opposing directions at the same time: fat loss and muscle/strength gain. I’m afriad you must do one and then the other.

  3. You are training for aesthetics, and that’s cool. But at your height, you need to gain weight and strength. That needs to be your goal, and it also means relexing your need to be RIPPED RIGHT NOW!!! No matter what the magazine ads tell you, you can’t gain muscle and lose fat… without steroids. No really. NO REALLY! Anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you something. And to get the look you say you want, you need to put on some more muscle, and some fat will come with it. I’m sorry, that is the price for big biceps. But don’t worry, you can lose the fat later (see below).

  4. You have progressed beyond the kind of training program you posted. You need a 3-5 day-a-week program that focuses on the big lifts, compound movements, lifting heavy, and always striving to put just a little bit more on the bar. 531 is good. I like bodybuilding programs better. I’m really liking Brad Schoenfeld’s latest book “Max Muscle Plan”, or anything by Carter Shoeffer, Ben Pakulski, or Nate Green.

  5. You need to eat. More than you think. You can’t gain muscle on a caloric deficit. Again, anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you something. You have to eat a surplus of “good” foods, like lean meats, veg, healthy fats like nuts, olive oil, and avocados, and whole complex carbs like oatmeal, potatoes, brown/wild rice.

  6. At our age you have to be more mindful of junk food, sugar, and alcohol. If you want to minimize the fat gain when you are eating big, you simply have to manage that.

  7. So after you’ve trained good and heavy, and eaten your quota of good food, for 6 months, you’re going to want to shed the fact. At the point you will shift from getting bigger and stronger to getting lean. Let me assure you, you can dump that fat without losing the muscle. Yes, I really, really mean it. Low carb diets, with a modest caloric deficit, supported by cardio and a good weight training program can strip fat away faster than you thought possible.

So right now, what do you do? Pick a program. 531 is good. So is Max Muscle Plan. Just pick one. Then start it. Don’t worry about anything else yet. Give yourself two good weeks just to get that big change under control.

Next look at your food. Take a critical look at what goes in your gullet. Maybe even write it all down for a week. Do that for two weeks.

Next find ways to remove junk and squeeze in more “good” food. Implement that over the next two weeks.

Hold for about 4-6 months. Watch biceps and quads get huge.

You already said it. You need to be pushed to unleash your true greatness. You have more to give… you said it yourself you feel like you’ve got more… so don’t hold back!

There ya go. A hundred bucks worth of coaching for free! :wink:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]cavalier wrote:
I’ve been VERY disappointed with trainers, and I’ve had some world class people train me. Don’t assume someone with bulging muscles has any idea how to help you get stronger.[/quote]
Just a question.

Is it ALWAYS someone else’s fault or due to some illness or depression.

If you looked back at what they were trying to get you to do, how much was their knowledge base vs your inability/unwillingness to do what they told you to do?

Not trying to be a dick, but I have been on these boards for a very long time. You are the very last person on here that should give any advice period. Well I am a dick but it does not change the fact. [/quote]

Derek…DICK!

Lol, but if I may, I believe Derek is trying to say, and I may be wrong is that your an anomaly, IMO anomalys should never give out advice because they are simply the exception to the rule. I could go into specifics but Im sure you can connect the dots.

[quote]cavalier wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]cavalier wrote:
I’ve been VERY disappointed with trainers, and I’ve had some world class people train me. Don’t assume someone with bulging muscles has any idea how to help you get stronger.[/quote]
Just a question.

Is it ALWAYS someone else’s fault or due to some illness or depression.

If you looked back at what they were trying to get you to do, how much was their knowledge base vs your inability/unwillingness to do what they told you to do?

Not trying to be a dick, but I have been on these boards for a very long time. You are the very last person on here that should give any advice period. Well I am a dick but it does not change the fact. [/quote]

I did exactly what they told me to do. They watched me and were satisfied I was doing it right.

They made no mention of seeing any illness holding me back. They gave me no treatment for depression, nor did anyone recommend I see someone else for treatment.

Don’t know what you mean by that crack about the last person to give advice, but I’ve been training in gyms for a total of 40 years by now and have seen a lot. I just post my experiences and call them as I see them.
[/quote]
Sorry I don’t believe you.

We can drop this Cav. But being in the medical field and lifting for 28 years I call bullshit.

You have to have a true medical muscular genetic component to state you have lifted for 40 years and your current lifts are where they are. I applaud you for continuing to work out and post your log.

However giving advice, No. This is not about tenure but results so unless you have results

Silence is golden.

First off, welcome McClay. Your journey will be an interesting one to follow. You have nowhere to go but up.

Next, Canada K! Wow – you look amazing. Would love to hear more about this.

Finally, Derek. Remember that we all fight our own personal demons.

[quote]kpsnap wrote:
First off, welcome McClay. Your journey will be an interesting one to follow. You have nowhere to go but up.

Next, Canada K! Wow – you look amazing. Would love to hear more about this.

Finally, Derek. Remember that we all fight our own personal demons. [/quote]
Yes ma’am sorry

Wow, I missed the updates on this thread! Some of you guys crack me up… I love the coach I have… and he’s put a lot of effort into helping me, so I wouldn’t EVER discount that. I woulda just moved on! Something has changed in the past 2 weeks… I guess voicing my frustrations was a big part of it, but everything you’ve written makes sense to me and I am so glad to know that I can continue to have physical breakthroughs!

Canada K, looks amazing… thank you for writing all of that. It makes a difference to know that someone else out there who wasn’t athletic early on made a total turn around.

It is looking like I’ve changed more than I’d thought. Finally did measurements the other morning and the waist has dropped 2", arms up almost 2" Hips went up (which I’m glad, b/c I had no ass before)… I just FEEL different very recently. So, thanks. You guys helped me push through to something else. I’d take this kinda therapy any day over that psycho kind. Don’t bitch, just go lift! So much more fun and puts everything into perspective! Thanks.

[quote]Canada_K wrote:

[quote]MCLAY101 wrote:
I really think I just need to be pushed to the max with every workout and it all needs to be lifting and none of this sprinting shit. I pretty much know how to do all of these things on my own, but going up in weight on the major lifts is where I need the help. I definitely have areas to tighten up, but I was never obese, just looked like I swallowed a tire.

I have the same goal as anyone who would be in my situation, add lean mass and get rid of the excess fat size.[/quote]

DUDE!

I don’t post much any more, but I can offer some words, here. Like you I started late, I was a poor athlete, and I have lousy structure for being big or ripped. I’m 42, I have a full-time management career that makes me crazy, and five kids that make me even crazier. HOWEVER, I pulled it off. I’ve posted a photo here from last year.

Yes, I’m serious I have shitty structure. I really do. And I have shitty genetics for getting stronger or bigger. And If I can do this, ANYBODY can. Now let’s get down to it. Waddaya do?

  1. Well for starters, stop all this nonsense about feeling like you wasted time. A guy HAS to do what you’ve been doing as the starting point. It can’t be avoided. You’re recognizing you need to do better/more. Great. That’s a position of strength.

  2. The reason you are going nowhere in particular at the moment and are feeling frustrated is because you are trying to go in two opposing directions at the same time: fat loss and muscle/strength gain. I’m afriad you must do one and then the other.

  3. You are training for aesthetics, and that’s cool. But at your height, you need to gain weight and strength. That needs to be your goal, and it also means relexing your need to be RIPPED RIGHT NOW!!! No matter what the magazine ads tell you, you can’t gain muscle and lose fat… without steroids. No really. NO REALLY! Anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you something. And to get the look you say you want, you need to put on some more muscle, and some fat will come with it. I’m sorry, that is the price for big biceps. But don’t worry, you can lose the fat later (see below).

  4. You have progressed beyond the kind of training program you posted. You need a 3-5 day-a-week program that focuses on the big lifts, compound movements, lifting heavy, and always striving to put just a little bit more on the bar. 531 is good. I like bodybuilding programs better. I’m really liking Brad Schoenfeld’s latest book “Max Muscle Plan”, or anything by Carter Shoeffer, Ben Pakulski, or Nate Green.

  5. You need to eat. More than you think. You can’t gain muscle on a caloric deficit. Again, anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you something. You have to eat a surplus of “good” foods, like lean meats, veg, healthy fats like nuts, olive oil, and avocados, and whole complex carbs like oatmeal, potatoes, brown/wild rice.

  6. At our age you have to be more mindful of junk food, sugar, and alcohol. If you want to minimize the fat gain when you are eating big, you simply have to manage that.

  7. So after you’ve trained good and heavy, and eaten your quota of good food, for 6 months, you’re going to want to shed the fact. At the point you will shift from getting bigger and stronger to getting lean. Let me assure you, you can dump that fat without losing the muscle. Yes, I really, really mean it. Low carb diets, with a modest caloric deficit, supported by cardio and a good weight training program can strip fat away faster than you thought possible.

So right now, what do you do? Pick a program. 531 is good. So is Max Muscle Plan. Just pick one. Then start it. Don’t worry about anything else yet. Give yourself two good weeks just to get that big change under control.

Next look at your food. Take a critical look at what goes in your gullet. Maybe even write it all down for a week. Do that for two weeks.

Next find ways to remove junk and squeeze in more “good” food. Implement that over the next two weeks.

Hold for about 4-6 months. Watch biceps and quads get huge.

You already said it. You need to be pushed to unleash your true greatness. You have more to give… you said it yourself you feel like you’ve got more… so don’t hold back!

There ya go. A hundred bucks worth of coaching for free! ;)[/quote]