Training/Tricks for Frustrated 'About to be 40'

Bigger Stronger Leaner Over 35 Lifter
1

Started in my mid-30’s trying to ‘get in shape’… I didn’t have a base of muscle, was never athletic… really just not toned and ‘skinny-fat.’ Been training with a great coach for 5 months (since the past couple years of doing my own thing was not yielding the results I thought I could reach.)

While I have gained 12 lbs of lean and lost 9 lbs of fat, I am starting to feel like I’ve hit some kind of frustration zone and I dislike it, a lot! I almost feel like I should be working out twice a day! I seemed to have stumped the coach, and anyone I show my food logs to. Of course the back flab is hanging on for dear life and it just feels like there’s something I’m missing.

Should I BE doing more cardio if I feel like doing something extra? Is this a normal phase to go through? I love weight training, and feel like I could live in the gym. But if someone who’s been through similar experiences, any tips or advice you could share would be greatly appreciated.

Want to reiterate: I started from basically NOTHING. I’m not one of these amazing transformation photos of guys who were once built/athletic and just had a small layer of fat to burn off and they are now on the cover of a magazine!

2

At 40 you should be doing some cardio for health.

Are you still going up on the big lifts.

3

If you’ve lost faith in your coach and are looking to make a change, you can post your current training and diet, and people can suggest modifications.

OTOH, if you’re planning to stick with your coach, stick with your coach; ie, don’t make changes based on what others say. Too many cooks, as they say.

4

Definitely do cardio on my off days. Elliptical trainer, treadmill, outdoor walks for 40-60 minutes.
Big lifts have increased, yes… I almost feel like I am one of those people who takes a while to warm up and maybe these “hour” sessions aren’t long enough for me.

[quote]tom1961 wrote:
At 40 you should be doing some cardio for health.

Are you still going up on the big lifts.[/quote]

5

Still learning how to use these replies! Sorry if I duplicate… But thank you for the input. I think he does a great job for what he has to work with (me). I think I’m working with him for another month and not sure what happens after that.

I’ve got to figure this out… glad there is a community here that is helpful.

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
If you’ve lost faith in your coach and are looking to make a change, you can post your current training and diet, and people can suggest modifications.

OTOH, if you’re planning to stick with your coach, stick with your coach; ie, don’t make changes based on what others say. Too many cooks, as they say.[/quote]

6

Welcome to the O’35 section.

Some things that seem missing from your post: (1) a clear assessment or description of where you are at with objective facts/measurements; (2) a clear description of where you want to be, i.e., your goals, preferably stated in objective facts/measurements; and (3) what you are currently doing (specifically) to achieve your goals.

Are you looking to lose more fat? Get stronger in powerlifting? Look better at the beach? What, exactly has your coach “stumped”?

7

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Welcome to the O’35 section.

Some things that seem missing from your post: (1) a clear assessment or description of where you are at with objective facts/measurements; (2) a clear description of where you want to be, i.e., your goals, preferably stated in objective facts/measurements; and (3) what you are currently doing (specifically) to achieve your goals.

Are you looking to lose more fat? Get stronger in powerlifting? Look better at the beach? What, exactly has your coach “stumped”?

[/quote]

Ditto. What is your height? Weight? Body fat percent? Where do you want your weight and body fat to be? What is your exact lifting program? Lots of trainers set-up programs with more of a “health” focus and not a lean muscle mass focus - especially for out of shape older clients.

I’m in a similar situation as you… (almost) 36, starting working out seriously about 3 years ago with vague goals of loosing weight and having more muscle. In the beginning I tried out tons of cardio, including running 5 days/week for 35+ km and ran in 2 half-marathons, but didn’t notice significant fat loss. Then I started with dieting with good success. At some point I shifting my focus to weight training + dieting and less cardio with a lot of success. Over all BF from 34% → 20% (and still decreasing) lean mass from ~74 kg → 79 kg (and still increasing). Just so you can have reasonable expectations… gaining 3-5 kg lean mass per year is reasonable for a newbie/intermediate… maybe a bit faster in the very beginning, so after only 3 months you probably won’t notice too much of a change in muscle mass.

Weight loss is accomplished best via diet. After lots of reading and experimentation I’ve found this diet combined with intermitant fasting (skipping dinner 2-3 times per week) to be the best for me.

Getting your carbs down (<100 g) is super important! Healthy, fit people can loose weight well via reduced calories alone. People with a compromised metabolism are often unable to loose weight via calorie restriction if carb intake remains high (my guess is because of a loss of insulin sensitivity with age). This is mentioned somewhere in this presentation:

FYI a compromised metabolism would be one where 3 or more of the following are present:

  • overweight
  • high blood pressure
  • high triglicerides
  • high fasting blood sugar
  • low HDL

IMO tons of cardio is not super important. I find 3x per week 25-30 minutes enough to maintain fitness. Weight lifting impoves insulin sensitivy more than running, and you look better with more muscle. It’s easier to eat less than burn calories via cardio. So… why bother with tons of cardio?

In terms of weight lifting… I’d take a look into Wendler’s 5/3/1 Triumvirate (not BBB due to training imbalances). I’d recommend you get your trainer to show you the technique on the main lifts squat/bench press/dead lift/OH press until it’s perfect and then just do 5/3/1.

8

Thanks! Happy to be here and getting some additional guidance.

I am 6’1" , around 189, I haven’t pulled out a tape measure in over a year- will dig one out and compare to old measurements. My last BF% taken was around 19%. I’m starting to see my ribs a bit, so I’m guessing that’s dropped since last month. The goal has always been to get me more athletically built, pack on lean mass and lose the love handles.

When I start any kind of program, what I’ve noticed is that I start getting “skinny.” I do not want to go this direction. But with 3 days per week with the coach (2 days spllit upper/lower lifting and 1 day conditioning) and was eating to bulk up during the winter… it just doesn’t LOOK like much of a change. He used the ‘age’ thing on me the other day, so I can tell he’s frustrated too. I think I should be way past bench pressing around 125 lbs at this point. We did a 1RM ONCE and that was 155! I’m not hobbling around, or super low energy… like I said, I love weight training, I just have that body type that wasn’t sporty as a kid and can LOOK at food and gain fat- but do I theoretically have to put in those years I lost?

I was eating rice, veggies and lots of protein, and eating every other hour it seemed. Now, I’m being told to eat every 3 hours. And for me, I just feel better without eating rice/pasta/starches. The only type of “bread” I consume are Ezekiel products, and that’s some days at breakfast. I have tried Test boosters, take GNC’s sport vitamin powder, Max Muscle’s protein and recovery shakes… CLA, Omega 3 + D, L-Carnatine, ALA w/cinamon and Resveratrol. I Don’t think there’s much else I can do at this point, except go to a doctor and get T shots!

So, if I missed anything, let me know. I can tell you, I feel much better, but I want to get stronger and I feel like I should maybe be further along by this point. I’m willing to do whatever it takes.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Welcome to the O’35 section.

Some things that seem missing from your post: (1) a clear assessment or description of where you are at with objective facts/measurements; (2) a clear description of where you want to be, i.e., your goals, preferably stated in objective facts/measurements; and (3) what you are currently doing (specifically) to achieve your goals.

Are you looking to lose more fat? Get stronger in powerlifting? Look better at the beach? What, exactly has your coach “stumped”?

[/quote]

9

Thanks… that video looks good, will watch when I get more time today. I really think I just need to be pushed to the max with every workout and it all needs to be lifting and none of this sprinting shit. I pretty much know how to do all of these things on my own, but going up in weight on the major lifts is where I need the help. I definitely have areas to tighten up, but I was never obese, just looked like I swallowed a tire.

I have the same goal as anyone who would be in my situation, add lean mass and get rid of the excess fat size. I noticed when he had me eating a certain way, I just started looking bloated, even in my face and head! Looked back at pics from last summer when I was working out on my own and eating right (have been now for about 2 years, with minimal cheats)-- and I was starting to look much leaner and defined. But, again, I always feel like when I look at the results I’m STILL starting from scratch and I don’t think I’m THAT old to be using age as an excuse. I still feel like I’m in my 20’s and have great energy and no injuries that have inhbited me from doing any movements.

I started Atkins-type eating about a month ago. I’ll update you guys on new measurements and see if that BF% has dropped.

[quote]canucknje wrote:

[/quote]

Ditto. What is your height? Weight? Body fat percent? Where do you want your weight and body fat to be? What is your exact lifting program? Lots of trainers set-up programs with more of a “health” focus and not a lean muscle mass focus - especially for out of shape older clients.

I’m in a similar situation as you… (almost) 36, starting working out seriously about 3 years ago with vague goals of loosing weight and having more muscle. In the beginning I tried out tons of cardio, including running 5 days/week for 35+ km and ran in 2 half-marathons, but didn’t notice significant fat loss. Then I started with dieting with good success. At some point I shifting my focus to weight training + dieting and less cardio with a lot of success. Over all BF from 34% → 20% (and still decreasing) lean mass from ~74 kg → 79 kg (and still increasing). Just so you can have reasonable expectations… gaining 3-5 kg lean mass per year is reasonable for a newbie/intermediate… maybe a bit faster in the very beginning, so after only 3 months you probably won’t notice too much of a change in muscle mass.

Weight loss is accomplished best via diet. After lots of reading and experimentation I’ve found this diet combined with intermitant fasting (skipping dinner 2-3 times per week) to be the best for me.

Getting your carbs down (<100 g) is super important! Healthy, fit people can loose weight well via reduced calories alone. People with a compromised metabolism are often unable to loose weight via calorie restriction if carb intake remains high (my guess is because of a loss of insulin sensitivity with age). This is mentioned somewhere in this presentation:

FYI a compromised metabolism would be one where 3 or more of the following are present:

  • overweight
  • high blood pressure
  • high triglicerides
  • high fasting blood sugar
  • low HDL

IMO tons of cardio is not super important. I find 3x per week 25-30 minutes enough to maintain fitness. Weight lifting impoves insulin sensitivy more than running, and you look better with more muscle. It’s easier to eat less than burn calories via cardio. So… why bother with tons of cardio?

In terms of weight lifting… I’d take a look into Wendler’s 5/3/1 Triumvirate (not BBB due to training imbalances). I’d recommend you get your trainer to show you the technique on the main lifts squat/bench press/dead lift/OH press until it’s perfect and then just do 5/3/1.[/quote]

10

[quote]MCLAY101 wrote:
Thanks… that video looks good, will watch when I get more time today. I really think I just need to be pushed to the max with every workout and it all needs to be lifting and none of this sprinting shit. I pretty much know how to do all of these things on my own, but going up in weight on the major lifts is where I need the help. I definitely have areas to tighten up, but I was never obese, just looked like I swallowed a tire.

I have the same goal as anyone who would be in my situation, add lean mass and get rid of the excess fat size. I noticed when he had me eating a certain way, I just started looking bloated, even in my face and head! Looked back at pics from last summer when I was working out on my own and eating right (have been now for about 2 years, with minimal cheats)-- and I was starting to look much leaner and defined. But, again, I always feel like when I look at the results I’m STILL starting from scratch and I don’t think I’m THAT old to be using age as an excuse. I still feel like I’m in my 20’s and have great energy and no injuries that have inhbited me from doing any movements.

I started Atkins-type eating about a month ago. I’ll update you guys on new measurements and see if that BF% has dropped.
[/quote]

A couple of things… what exactly is your lifting routine? I mean what lifts, sets, reps and weights?

Sprinting is actually pretty damn good in terms of weight loss…

One important thing about eating… in the 45 min after lifting your body is in high gear synthesizing protein (making new muscle). This elevated protein synthesis drops to normal about 3-4 hours after lifting. Studies have shown that eating/drinking a mixture of about 4 g carbs / 1 g protein increases protein synthesis dramatically (something like +500 - 600%). So you should take about 300-500 calories with a 4:1::carbs:protein directly after/during a lifting session. There’s a book about this… “Nutrient Timing”.

Also, just FYI… my estimated 1RM on all main lifts dropped by 10-20% as soon as I started dieting again. When dieting I can drop about 1.5 - 2 kg / month. If your focus is building strength then eat! If your focus is dropping fat, then don’t worry so much about strength. To know if you’re eating enough/too much buy a body fat balance and track lean mass / fat mass in a spreadsheet.

11

BB Bench press (4-5 sets; no more than 8-10 w/95 lbs, 5 reps with 125)
RDL’s (3x10; can do 95lb on those pretty easily)
Lunges either with bar or kettlebells (3x16; 60lb kb and up to 70lbs with bar on back)
Overhead press and squat press (3x10 no more than 60lb)
Bodyweight Rows (3x10, usually legs extended)
DB incline and flat press (3x15 @ 60lb; max I’ve done flat was 90lbs x 10)
DB bent over row (3x12 @ 45lb x 1 arm at a time)

Push the prowler, sprints, ropes, etc…

[quote]canucknje wrote:
A couple of things… what exactly is your lifting routine? I mean what lifts, sets, reps and weights?

Sprinting is actually pretty damn good in terms of weight loss…

One important thing about eating… in the 45 min after lifting your body is in high gear synthesizing protein (making new muscle). This elevated protein synthesis drops to normal about 3-4 hours after lifting. Studies have shown that eating/drinking a mixture of about 4 g carbs / 1 g protein increases protein synthesis dramatically (something like +500 - 600%). So you should take about 300-500 calories with a 4:1::carbs:protein directly after/during a lifting session. There’s a book about this… “Nutrient Timing”.

Also, just FYI… my estimated 1RM on all main lifts dropped by 10-20% as soon as I started dieting again. When dieting I can drop about 1.5 - 2 kg / month. If your focus is building strength then eat! If your focus is dropping fat, then don’t worry so much about strength. To know if you’re eating enough/too much buy a body fat balance and track lean mass / fat mass in a spreadsheet.[/quote]

12

[quote]MCLAY101 wrote:
BB Bench press (4-5 sets; no more than 8-10 w/95 lbs, 5 reps with 125)
RDL’s (3x10; can do 95lb on those pretty easily)
Lunges either with bar or kettlebells (3x16; 60lb kb and up to 70lbs with bar on back)
Overhead press and squat press (3x10 no more than 60lb)
Bodyweight Rows (3x10, usually legs extended)
DB incline and flat press (3x15 @ 60lb; max I’ve done flat was 90lbs x 10)
DB bent over row (3x12 @ 45lb x 1 arm at a time)
[/quote]

Eek… typically from a gym trainer…

I’d get you on something more like Starting Strength until you’re stronger, then switch to 5/3/1. For example I’d recommend the following (a mixture of Starting Strength and 5/3/1):

You alternate between two workouts, doing 3-4 workouts per week with at least 1 day off in between each lifting session.

Workout A
Squats (any variation), 5 ramped sets x 5 reps, last set AMRAP
Bench press, 5 ramped sets x 5 reps, last set AMRAP
*DB rows, 5 sets x 10 reps
*Abs (something like crunches), 5 sets x 10 reps

Workout B
Dead lift (any variation), 5 ramped sets x 5 reps, last set AMRAP
Overhead press, 5 ramped sets x 5 reps, last set AMRAP
*Pull-up (varying grip), 5 sets x 10 reps
*Abs (something twisting like wipers), 5 sets x 10 reps

AMRAP = as many reps as possible

For the ramped sets pick a weight you can do 5 times - easily. This will be your weight for the top (last) set. Then use the following weights for those sets:
Set 1 60% of top set weight
Set 2 70% of top set weight
Set 3 80% of top set weight
Set 4 90% of top set weight
Set 5 100% of top set weight

For the assistence work (those marked with a *) use the same weight in all sets. Pick a weight that you can do 5x10 with - easily. If you’re too weak to finish the pull-ups or crunches or whatever, just do 5 x AMRAP.

Progression (this is important!!!): every time you go to the gym you add weight to the bar/take the heavier DB/add a rep/whatever in all excercises. Just add the smallest increment possible in your gym… probably 2.5 lbs plates. Once you hit a weight that is high enough that you miss reps, stay at that weight until you can hit the target reps then increase the weight again. If you miss your target reps for three workouts in a row for a particular exercise, decrease the weight in that exercise by 10% and start the progression over.

It may be good to add in something for the external rotators like a protonated grip face pull for injury prevention… but that can probably wait until you’re a bit stronger.

Do this for about 6-12 months and, if you’re eating enough, you should have solid gains.

13

[quote]canucknje wrote:

[quote]MCLAY101 wrote:
BB Bench press (4-5 sets; no more than 8-10 w/95 lbs, 5 reps with 125)
RDL’s (3x10; can do 95lb on those pretty easily)
Lunges either with bar or kettlebells (3x16; 60lb kb and up to 70lbs with bar on back)
Overhead press and squat press (3x10 no more than 60lb)
Bodyweight Rows (3x10, usually legs extended)
DB incline and flat press (3x15 @ 60lb; max I’ve done flat was 90lbs x 10)
DB bent over row (3x12 @ 45lb x 1 arm at a time)
[/quote]

WOW, thanks. Funny, I did my own thing yesterday in my apt gym complex which has dumbbells and a few cable machines. With DB chest work, i could see and feel a huge difference, and I workout the way you’re suggesting when I’m on my own. I guess I had to try something to challenge myself, but I may have just wasted a HUGE amount of money over the past 5 months. Oh well, lesson learned. I’ll find a good gym and join up instead of paying a trainer again. The place I’ve been going is a place ‘inspired by’ footballer/sports training. I’m not knocking it… it’s kept me focused at least, but maybe time to do my own thing.

Eek… typically from a gym trainer…

I’d get you on something more like Starting Strength until you’re stronger, then switch to 5/3/1. For example I’d recommend the following (a mixture of Starting Strength and 5/3/1):

You alternate between two workouts, doing 3-4 workouts per week with at least 1 day off in between each lifting session.

Workout A
Squats (any variation), 5 ramped sets x 5 reps, last set AMRAP
Bench press, 5 ramped sets x 5 reps, last set AMRAP
*DB rows, 5 sets x 10 reps
*Abs (something like crunches), 5 sets x 10 reps

Workout B
Dead lift (any variation), 5 ramped sets x 5 reps, last set AMRAP
Overhead press, 5 ramped sets x 5 reps, last set AMRAP
*Pull-up (varying grip), 5 sets x 10 reps
*Abs (something twisting like wipers), 5 sets x 10 reps

AMRAP = as many reps as possible

For the ramped sets pick a weight you can do 5 times - easily. This will be your weight for the top (last) set. Then use the following weights for those sets:
Set 1 60% of top set weight
Set 2 70% of top set weight
Set 3 80% of top set weight
Set 4 90% of top set weight
Set 5 100% of top set weight

For the assistence work (those marked with a *) use the same weight in all sets. Pick a weight that you can do 5x10 with - easily. If you’re too weak to finish the pull-ups or crunches or whatever, just do 5 x AMRAP.

Progression (this is important!!!): every time you go to the gym you add weight to the bar/take the heavier DB/add a rep/whatever in all excercises. Just add the smallest increment possible in your gym… probably 2.5 lbs plates. Once you hit a weight that is high enough that you miss reps, stay at that weight until you can hit the target reps then increase the weight again. If you miss your target reps for three workouts in a row for a particular exercise, decrease the weight in that exercise by 10% and start the progression over.

It may be good to add in something for the external rotators like a protonated grip face pull for injury prevention… but that can probably wait until you’re a bit stronger.

Do this for about 6-12 months and, if you’re eating enough, you should have solid gains.[/quote]

14

[quote]MCLAY101 wrote:
BB Bench press (4-5 sets; no more than 8-10 w/95 lbs, 5 reps with 125)
RDL’s (3x10; can do 95lb on those pretty easily)
Lunges either with bar or kettlebells (3x16; 60lb kb and up to 70lbs with bar on back)
Overhead press and squat press (3x10 no more than 60lb)
Bodyweight Rows (3x10, usually legs extended)
DB incline and flat press (3x15 @ 60lb; max I’ve done flat was 90lbs x 10)
DB bent over row (3x12 @ 45lb x 1 arm at a time)

Push the prowler, sprints, ropes, etc…

[quote]canucknje wrote:

Look into 5-3-1 and/or something more centered around barbell squats (back or front squats) and deadlifts for lower. If you want to get stronger you really need to load some weight on your back and in your hands.

15

[quote]MCLAY101 wrote:

I am 6’1" , around 189, I haven’t pulled out a tape measure in over a year- will dig one out and compare to old measurements. My last BF% taken was around 19%. I’m starting to see my ribs a bit, so I’m guessing that’s dropped since last month. The goal has always been to get me more athletically built, pack on lean mass and lose the love handles.

[/quote][/quote]

If it were me and I had these numbers I’d just work on keeping the diet sensible and work on getting stronger in the big lifts for a while: squat, deadlift, bench, row, pullups, overhead press. Your body weight looks decent for your height but your objective strength numbers need to improve. I suspect as you get stronger with a sensible diet your physique will start to take care of itself. Once you are stronger, you can start to further fine tune your program to further meet your goals.

16

Two things: 1. Stay with it. 2. Keep it simple. If you do those things your body will react. I agree with Jack, try 5/3/1 or some other program that will build a foundation.

17

Thanks so much guys, I will look into 5/3/1. All makes sense. There’s got to be something good to come out of all this work I’ve done so far.

[quote]Crippler56 wrote:
Two things: 1. Stay with it. 2. Keep it simple. If you do those things your body will react. I agree with Jack, try 5/3/1 or some other program that will build a foundation. [/quote]

18

Your work already has done some good: its made you objectively better and got you started down the right path. No regrets, just keep working to learn and improve and never, ever quit trying to get better. It is all part of the process.

19

MCLAY101,

40’s hit hard, you just have to hit harder. That back fat thing you talked about; that’s where I have always carried it. It’s the first place it goes and the last place it leaves. Be glad it’s not in your chest, that’s not real attractive for men.

I was never a fan of the 5/3/1 but others have had good results with it. The big thing is to stay with it. When you find yourself wondering why you are in the gym, asK yourself what else you would be doing, watching T.V.? Then get back to work.

20

That’s a great way to look at it… TV is the worst form of boredom for me. I’d rather watch paint dry! :wink: Hey, if my back looked half as great as yours, I’d be happy. I’m going to ride out these last sessions and try to throw in my own thing (lightly, so I don’t get injured) and see what works. Glad I’ve gotten on this site for help. Really invaluable to have other eyes and “ears” [quote]doublelung84 wrote:
MCLAY101,

40’s hit hard, you just have to hit harder. That back fat thing you talked about; that’s where I have always carried it. It’s the first place it goes and the last place it leaves. Be glad it’s not in your chest, that’s not real attractive for men.

I was never a fan of the 5/3/1 but others have had good results with it. The big thing is to stay with it. When you find yourself wondering why you are in the gym, asK yourself what else you would be doing, watching T.V.? Then get back to work.[/quote]