Training Till Depressed: Results

Training Bodybuilding
161

Well, it looks like my trip will not be as expected. I was talking to my friend last night and he wants to rock climb a bit. SO…I decided this was a good idea. I was feeling really unhappy last night because I am just SO divided right now. I do love hiking, but right now I really really want to gain size and I feel like I’m really confusing my muscles by trying to lift a lot to convert over to big type 2 fibers, but then every week or two going on some long endurance thing where I’m hiking like 6-8 hours a day. I almost feel like maybe taking a break, not for the whole summer, but for about 1.5 months and then treating myself to a long trip at the end when I hopefully have more mass? Not sure yet. I know right now my legs feel very full and have grown and I don’t want it to all dissappear on a hike.

Anyway, I accepted this new plan of rockclimbing and then doing either a day hike or short 2 day backpacking trip again. I’ve never actually rock climbed and I’ve been meaning to for quite some time. It should be fun to try and will be not taxing - I will count it as rest days. Since that will be sat. and sun. I went ahead and worked out again this morning. I think I will take tomorrow off for real though. I did 8 days. Then Fri would be off, sat and sun rock climb, mon, tues, hike, then home wed, start working out hardcore thurs?

That should be too much rest actually. I don’t think my body likes being out of the gym 5 days. It was really hard coming back after the 5 days.

I took measurements this morning. My legs are actually up .75 inches or so, but I think it is just from swelling from being on day 8. I wish it would stay. It makes me wonder if creatine would be useful. I’ve never used it.

My weight is also shooting up. It was up to 113.5 today. It is scary. I KNOW I have gained some fat on my abs. Is this something I just have to accept or should I cut back the cals 200 or so to keep it slower? But then again, I want to make gains…

Seattle_lifter-

Thanks SO much for your post. I def. have wondered about maybe replacing some protein with carbs. I probably should. I will try to maybe do that. Where would you put them? Just a few more in each meal after or would you add a 3rd carb meal after the one 1 hr. post workout?

I do not ever workout on an empty stomach - just no carbs. I have at least 30 g. of whey. Recently in my attempt to gain mass I added the berries. I used to use Surge before/during but I think it caused fat gain. I even cut it out after for a while, but I saw that my recovery was horrid when I did that.

I want to do carb cycling, but I find that I never really go VERY low since I’m working out every day - I always have the Surge and then some carbs in the meal after. How would you suggest going about it if I want to cycle them? Also, the order of magnitude of my carbs is so small that honestly probably the varience in my veggie intake in the later part of the day makes any “cycling” I do get evened out…

I will also try to eat more hiking. I do also eat so differntly . I mean, I LOVE energy bars, but I don’t let myself have them on the ground. Eating them all day when I hike cures my cravings usually. :slight_smile:

162

Day 18, the training and rest period are over and i can see and feel a difference, i put on a pair of trousers that only 2weeks ago fit comfortably now around the thighs they are painfully tight to the point that they ripped!!..

i cannot wait to get into the gym today, i will probalby do legs,back,bi today then chest,shoulders,triceps tomorrow, i will let you now what my lifts are and my weight
Dips

163

Day 2.

Train went fine. Although I have some difficulties with exercise form. I’m a litte tired right now, will go to sleep early today because tomorrow morning is the next training session.

greets

164

Day 3 for myself. Even though it has just been three days, my body is groaning under the burden already. I particularly feel it in my legs. After all, I am doing either a squat, a deadlift or power clean every session. Also it’s been tough because there have been some work issues that required me to have greatly abbreviated sleep each night this week.

With any luck, I will get lots of good sleep this weekend and that should ameliorate the situation a bit. I have been taking 4 grams of lysine every day, along with Surge, 40 grams of fish oil (half of which is Flameout)and 30-40 grams/workout of BCAAs.

165

Day 3.

Train went fine. The lunges an the high reps kicked my ass. Feel a bit tired right now. I’ll have some good sleep this weekend.

greets

166

WOW, just wow after coming back from the gym after the rest period i have gained strength and some serious sise.

I gained 2inches on my quads, 1.5inches on my chest, .75 inch on my arms while only gaining .5 inch on my waist, i have gone from 205ibs to 213ibs…

back in the gym i was stronger yet i still felt weak(muscles still sore etc…but the soreness is geting better)

i felt weak yet i was sooo much stronger than before, i have gained 22ibs on my squats, gone from using 88ibs DB for 5(incline db press) to 100ibs for 8, hopfully as i have heard from others who have done this the next week i will hopfully gain more sise and a lot more strength.

Dips

167

Day 4:

Finally got good nights sleep last night and then went and did a PR in back squat this morning. Soreness relieved in part. Finding that I am going “deeper into the hole” on my squats, despite the soreness.

168

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Given that, I am doing a lot of compound exercises. This AM I did Front Squat, Weighted Dips, one-arm dumbell row and Power Clean. This evening when I go home, it will be deadlift, military press, and barbell row. Tomorrow AM, back squat, floor press, BB lunges and trap bar shrugs.

I would like to have incorporated the chin-ups, but right now my elbow issues seem aggravated by those (though dips dont cause any problems).

Wolfing down 30-40 grams of Biotest BCAA during each workout. What doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger…or broke or crazy (look how poor Nietzche ended his days)!!! Also eating 40 grams of fish oil per day: 20 grams Flameout, 20 grams Whole Foods Generic brand fish oil (which I pray wasn’t manufactured for them in some chinese sweatshop).

Hope others going through such a program will continue to post. We need to be mutually supportive in such an endeavor.

[/quote]

You must be on day 4 or 5 now. How are you feeling/doing?

Good luck. I am glad you have the nutrition down. Many forget about that and reach the overtraining point too soon.

Keep us posted!

Marc

169

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Given that, I am doing a lot of compound exercises. This AM I did Front Squat, Weighted Dips, one-arm dumbell row and Power Clean. This evening when I go home, it will be deadlift, military press, and barbell row. Tomorrow AM, back squat, floor press, BB lunges and trap bar shrugs.

I would like to have incorporated the chin-ups, but right now my elbow issues seem aggravated by those (though dips dont cause any problems).

Wolfing down 30-40 grams of Biotest BCAA during each workout. What doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger…or broke or crazy (look how poor Nietzche ended his days)!!! Also eating 40 grams of fish oil per day: 20 grams Flameout, 20 grams Whole Foods Generic brand fish oil (which I pray wasn’t manufactured for them in some chinese sweatshop).

Hope others going through such a program will continue to post. We need to be mutually supportive in such an endeavor.

[/quote]

You must be on day 4 or 5 now. How are you feeling/doing?

Good luck. I am glad you have the nutrition down. Many forget about that and reach the overtraining point too soon.

Keep us posted!

Marc

170

Day 4 and 5 went fine. I am absolutely NOT tired or sore by any means. Don’t really know why?! The other here stated that they were down and didn’t want to do anything. I just came home from the gym and I look forward to the next training session.

Nutrition is good all over the week by now. Eating many kcals and a lot of protein. I’m very curious about the results.

greets

171

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

You must be on day 4 or 5 now. How are you feeling/doing?
[/quote]

Thank you for asking. I actually just completed day 6. I am,so far, feeling well. I am a sore but not overwhelmed by it. All those squats have me walking around, looking like a just-used whore though :slight_smile: Now, I should think that I would be feeling far worse than I do. It is possible that I am doing something “wrong”. I am not going completely “balls to the walls”, as Poliquin indicates, on every set. For example, I am doing 10 sets of 3 reps when I do the deadlifts and I am not attempting my maximum weight until the last three or so sets.

That said, I have not had to decrement weight yet. We’ll see how things go next week. I get an OFF-DAY tomorrow (according to Poliquin’s specifications).

I can definitely say that the supps are making a difference. Normally, I take almost no supplements, not even a whey post-workout drink. I can definitely feel the BCAAs kick in during the workout and then feel a, well, surge, after drinking Surge post-workout. Normally, after a hard leg workout, I will wake up once or twice a night from soreness. Despite the increased workload in this case, however, I am not experiencing this. I credit this to the supps.

Right now, I can not say that I am feeling depressed. It’s more like I feel a little burned out about working out so often. I have a busy schedule and fitting in all the workouts has proven to be a chore. If, by chance, at the end of week 2 I dont get the “depression” or fatigue indicated, do you think I should push forward another week or so?

172

Day 1

Workout (morning)
Bulgarian Squats
135x6; 155 x 6;6;6;6 on each leg
Trap bar Deadlifts/ Shrugs
245x6;6;6;6;6
Close grip Pullups
25 pounds plus BW:6;5;6;5;4
Incline Dumbell Press
60 X 6;6;6;6;6
Reverse Curls
75x8;85x6; 95x4
Donkey Raises
Bw plus 80 pounds x 8;8;8;8;8
Seated Calf Raises
205 x 10;10;10;10;10

Night
30 yards Uphill Sprints
:15 reps

Summary
he said you could add more work and i did. I am going to regret the sprints. the morining workout was pretty good. Very taxing. I love overtraining so it was fun and painful

Weight: 175.4
Mental Status
im feeling great actually. No sign of depression yet…lol.

Day 2

I woke up feeling like shit. Damn…my whole body was a mess. i had to hype myself up to get up for the morning workout. this is only day 2. i cant wait for day 10 then…lol. yay to 10 sets of squats.

Workout
Back Squats
225 x 6;6;6;6;6;6;6;6;6;5

Leg Curl
200 x 6;6;6;6;6;6;6;6;6;6

Lean Away Chins
35 x6;5;4;4;4 25x 5;5;4;4;4

Weighted Dips
70 x 6;5;5;5;5;5;5;5;5;5

Summary
This was such a brutal workout. My legs were already dead from last night sprints. The 10 sets of Squats was just insane. I was mentally done by the chinups. it took will power to complete them. I actually enjoyed the dips though but the chinups and the squats were just painful. it going to be a long 12 days.

weight: 174.8
Mental Status
Im actually okay right now. Maybe its the endorphins talking. Im definitely not depressed yet but i can see it happening in the near future.

173

[quote]sarah1 wrote:

I think I have to stop now though. As it is I will only have 2 days before hiking. It kills me to be out of the gym though. :frowning: I guess I need it to grow though and I’ve probably done enough damage in the 7 days now to still get good growth?
[/quote]
Answer:

Sorry for the late response, have been out of town. You are beyond the 7 days now but I agree inprinciple that you could have done enough damage in the 7 days to still get good growth, heck you can sometimes train 2-3 days in a row and get good results!

Answer:
I remember that article but unfortunately when you take that literally it does more harm then good. If you gain 3lbs you might worry that 2 of them are fat while, as I mentioned before (and you are mentioning it next) the body grows in waves. You might gain in strength and work capacity for two months straight and then voila, you gain 2-4 lbs of muscle almost overnight.

Although in principle he is probably right and 12lbs of pure muscle (16lbs of lean weight) in a year can be considered a lot, breaking things down in the minutia needs to be done carefully. I would rather he had mentioned that if after a year you had not gained at least 10-12lbs of lean tissue you need to re-evaluate what you are doing.

Answer:
This is real difficult to answer because as a extremely skinny guy I have had to in the past, add many thousands of calories over my maintenance to gain weight. Mind you, I was at 6 feet only 3lbs heavier then you are now :slight_smile:

However, less calories are needed if peri-workout nutrition is excellent.
I would suggest you experiement with lower calorie solutions like an casein protein shake before, BCAA during and Surge after the workout as well as coach Thib’s protocol of using BCAA’s during the day (don’t have specifics handy but you can search).
Taking in fish oil, up to 45 grams will add dense calories AND speed up metabolism.

Answer:
See above!

Answer:
Ha, women after my own heart :slight_smile:

Good luck,

Marc

174

[quote]german-guy wrote:
Just started today. Couldn’t wait any longer. Train went fine. The low reps allow me to move serious weights (in comparison to “normal training”), although the exercises are completely different to what I’ve done before.

I’ll keep you posted. Took measurements today and weighed myself for a final judgement after the program.

greets[/quote]

Good luck,

Marc

175

[quote]DIPS33 wrote:
Day 18, the training and rest period are over and i can see and feel a difference, i put on a pair of trousers that only 2weeks ago fit comfortably now around the thighs they are painfully tight to the point that they ripped!!..

i cannot wait to get into the gym today, i will probalby do legs,back,bi today then chest,shoulders,triceps tomorrow, i will let you now what my lifts are and my weight
Dips[/quote]

That’s awesome.
I might have to try this program then next month.
I have a short vacation coming up going back to Holland but will not be able to train 9 times per week.

Let me know how much you added in size and strength, OK?

176

[quote]Seattle_Lifter wrote:
Thanks for the detailed response. I have written some comments below.

[/quote]

Doug,

That’s great stuff. Thanks for chiming in and adding your considerable experience.
I should have scrolled down first before I answered Sarah :slight_smile:

Marc

177

[quote]DIPS33 wrote:
WOW, just wow after coming back from the gym after the rest period i have gained strength and some serious sise.

I gained 2inches on my quads, 1.5inches on my chest, .75 inch on my arms while only gaining .5 inch on my waist, i have gone from 205ibs to 213ibs…

back in the gym i was stronger yet i still felt weak(muscles still sore etc…but the soreness is geting better)

i felt weak yet i was sooo much stronger than before, i have gained 22ibs on my squats, gone from using 88ibs DB for 5(incline db press) to 100ibs for 8, hopfully as i have heard from others who have done this the next week i will hopfully gain more sise and a lot more strength.

Dips[/quote]

Sheesh, that much?
Are you doing the same thing again, or are you using different exercises?

marc

178

[quote]german-guy wrote:
Day 4 and 5 went fine. I am absolutely NOT tired or sore by any means. Don’t really know why?! The other here stated that they were down and didn’t want to do anything. I just came home from the gym and I look forward to the next training session.

Nutrition is good all over the week by now. Eating many kcals and a lot of protein. I’m very curious about the results.

greets[/quote]

Soreness does not have to happen, look for fatigue and loss of strength.

Good luck and thanks for keeping us updated!

179

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Thank you for asking. I actually just completed day 6. I am,so far, feeling well. I am a sore but not overwhelmed by it. All those squats have me walking around, looking like a just-used whore though :slight_smile: Now, I should think that I would be feeling far worse than I do. It is possible that I am doing something “wrong”. I am not going completely “balls to the walls”, as Poliquin indicates, on every set. For example, I am doing 10 sets of 3 reps when I do the deadlifts and I am not attempting my maximum weight until the last three or so sets.

That said, I have not had to decrement weight yet. We’ll see how things go next week. I get an OFF-DAY tomorrow (according to Poliquin’s specifications).

I can definitely say that the supps are making a difference. Normally, I take almost no supplements, not even a whey post-workout drink. I can definitely feel the BCAAs kick in during the workout and then feel a, well, surge, after drinking Surge post-workout. Normally, after a hard leg workout, I will wake up once or twice a night from soreness. Despite the increased workload in this case, however, I am not experiencing this. I credit this to the supps.

Right now, I can not say that I am feeling depressed. It’s more like I feel a little burned out about working out so often. I have a busy schedule and fitting in all the workouts has proven to be a chore. If, by chance, at the end of week 2 I dont get the “depression” or fatigue indicated, do you think I should push forward another week or so?

[/quote]

That’s interesting. I wouldn’t say you are doing somehting wrong. Going balls to walls on each and every set is what Poliquin prescribes and you can always continue doing more sets that way instead of the last 3-4.

Also, if you have never done the supps before, that should really help in you not getting sore and tired early in the program.

The depressed ‘thing’ will not happen in the first week, it will hit you later in the second week.

I would not push on for another week, instead I would, if the gains or OK but not stellar, use the experience of the first cycle and do ‘better’ on the second cycle (if you are going to do one) or you can of course, decide to go balls to walls on every set in the days coming up…(that’s actually what i would do myself).

Good luck with that ‘feeling like a just -used whore feeling’, sounds like fun :slight_smile:

Marc

180

[quote]Dsmoove wrote:
Mental Status
Im actually okay right now. Maybe its the endorphins talking. Im definitely not depressed yet but i can see it happening in the near future.
__________________[/quote]

Dsmoove,

thanks for posting!

Good luck,

Marc