StandTall,
Great results, good luck on the next stage!
Marc
[quote]sarah1 wrote:
Hmm. Well today was interesting. I just kept feeling like adding things. It was a heavy day. I keep feeling this way and I don’t know if it’s bad - I just can’t get myself worn out so I go, do the workout, use the 5 free minutes, then usually turn then 5 free into like 20 and then still leave the gym feeling energetic. I am not able to lift heavier weights though. In some cases I decreased actually. So I’m doing something wrong I think.
[/quote]
Answer:
Both strength and size increase come in waves, it is not a linear process. The rebound effect of strength and size also happens differently. Often you can increase in size while experiencing a slight decrease in strenght and then later, boom, strength increases fast, with or without an additional increase in size.
Please note too that increases in size are mostly due to an increase in the strength-endurance aspect of training. Training your muscles many times a week, or 10 times in a row will for sure increase the capacity with which the muscle can work and thus an increase of size is immenent.
Increases in weight used will follow.
Answer:
First: legs look fantastic, OK? At 110lbs, with that kind of development and separation they look top class, better then some of the figure models who post here. You are being too hard on yourself! And I think that’s where you need to start, now that you are contemplating where to go from here.
You seem to worry a bit too much, focus a bit too much on the small details, which is fine because you need laser focus when trying to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.
However, you must realize that you are making it real hard on yourself if you go that route. Gaining muscle while either losing fat or maintaining fat % as is, is a very slow process and can be very frustrating.
Personally I think you should look for a program that increases your strength, like a strength focussed meso-cycle and perhaps go on a calorie cycling diet where 2-3 days a week you eat above maintenance and the other days maintenance.
Answer:
Good idea, but like I mentioned before, focussing on increasing strength for while might be a good idea. It will set you up to gain more when going to the plan you are suggesting.
[quote]
sarah1 wrote:
The thing with the HF programs I’ve done is that I always seem to get good results at reshaping, but not getting bigger. Like this time - I’ll attach a before/midpoint of my legs - I think they improved a little in shape but as I say I have not gotten BIGGEr. However, that may just be diet. I am wondering if I just increase cals is that all that is necessary to make the change? I don’t have to use longer rest periods? I keep reading about how to get big you need to lift HEAVY and rest like 1-2 min between sets. I do these HF programs in a circuit and am really getting my HR up…
Any input would be awesome! Thanks so much! This thread has been really helpful and fun while going through the WB program. [/quote]
Answer:
I believe that for us, formerly skinney people :), we really need to rest a bit longer (60sec) between sets so we can increase the weight we use and or do more sets!
It is for us, not such a good idea to get the HR way up. I do circuits and I immediately cut up. Complexes? Pfew, I drop fat like that!
Gain mass? Unbelievably difficult! I need to eat thousands of calories and lift heavy and often.
I was 116lbs at 6 feet when i started so I know exaclty how you feel 
Slow down, lift heavier, keep HR down during session and eat before, during and after work out. Always eat a good breakfast (very difficult for me) and make sure you eat just before going to bed!
You will add mass and shape!
marc
[quote]StandTall wrote:
Thank you Sarah.
I think you are doing well also. My opinion is that you just simply need to eat a lot and to rest after the 10 days until you are not tired anymore. More training is good, but not all the time it has to be cycled. I would stop adding volume, it will allow your muscles to become more efficient and then on your heavy days you will be able to use more weight.
You are slow twitch dominate because of the volume you are used to. If you give your body time to adjust it will start using more muscle fibers to fire at once and you will soon be using more weight. Does that make sense? My wife was a distance runner and a soccer player and had the same problem, I’ve helped her go from 5ft 4in 110lbs “skinny fat” to 125lbs rock hard and from a size 6 to a size 4 bigger muscles great v shape.
What did you think of my idea for a training split while you are hiking so much?
[/quote]
Hey Standtall-
Thanks for the input-
In terms of the program you suggested - I’m thinking it’s where I’ll go after this. I just am going to be doing too much hiking probably to be doing the every morning thing. Plus work is picking up. 
I have commitments certain mornings.
I definitely sound like your wife - the slow twitch dominant. I find I can do barely any more weight for low reps than high reps - I’m good at just busting out many reps and I’m used to CRAZY high volume.
However, I’ve tried cutting back drastically, trying to turn over to slow type, and it just didn’t work. I lose strength and definition. I was trying something like an upper mon, lower tues, wed off, upper thurs, sprints fri, hiking weekend (or just off)
Didn’t work at all. So maybe your HF approach with just less exercises is the way to go? Is that what you had your wife do? (Her results sound FANTASTIC by the way - just what I need except I have to go from 110 to maybe 140ish and cut hopefully eventually)
What do you think about the rest period question? Should I not be doing circuits? I just love them!! And I find I can’t lift any more weight when I take the more rest usually.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
sarah1 wrote:
Wow, I’m insanely hyper. How long can the effects of spike work? I took one this morning at 10 am. It’s 8 pm now and I’m wired. I can’t sit and work! I just run around and eat things even though I’m not hungry! How can I have this much energy on day 4 of this plan??
Spike and rebound! You are doing well. I think it was a wise choice to add some Spike.
Saw the pic of your legs, great job!
Beautiful shape, if I may say so.
Keep eating!
Good luck,
marc[/quote]
Oh man have I been eating! It’s scary the last 3 days I was close to 2800 cals probably! I just eat all day!!! I’m having cravings all the time though, and that usually means that I’m hungry. (Hunger is psychological for me so I can’t go by it. However, when I start craving junk food I know I am actually really truly hungry so I have to go eat some meat or something.)
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Answer:
Both strength and size increase come in waves, it is not a linear process. The rebound effect of strength and size also happens differently. Often you can increase in size while experiencing a slight decrease in strenght and then later, boom, strength increases fast, with or without an additional increase in size.
Please note too that increases in size are mostly due to an increase in the strength-endurance aspect of training. Training your muscles many times a week, or 10 times in a row will for sure increase the capacity with which the muscle can work and thus an increase of size is immenent.
Increases in weight used will follow.
[/quote]
I hope so. I just feel that part of me is getting CUT but my stomach is gaining fat. That’s what my body likes to do.
Thanks. That does mean a lot. It’s just so hard - they are SO tiny. I lost 2 inches (and HARD gained inches) in the last 6 months, so they just feel like sticks. And of course my waist is only like less than an inch smaller - my body doesn’t work the way I like it too - when I loose weight it comes off my legs. When I gain it gets put back on my stomach. So the whole cycle of lose/gain is BAD for my body!
I also feel pressure because I’m really unhealthy. At 5’7’’ and 110 lbs my body is NOT where it needs to be for health. So while it would be nice to take the time to gain really slowly, I do feel pressure like I’m hurting myself by staying thin. But then it’s SO hard to accept fat, so that makes me want to go VERY slowly. But then by trying to go slow I gain nothing - so I’m really reflecting now and thinking maybe I will throw some caution to the wind and eat like I have not done before - like up the cals a full 500-700 a day to almost 3000. (well, 3000 of my counting, which overestimates everything, so in reality like 2600)
You think??
I know I do…
Yeah, or causes me not to gain anything like now…
[/quote]
Personally I think you should look for a program that increases your strength, like a strength focussed meso-cycle and perhaps go on a calorie cycling diet where 2-3 days a week you eat above maintenance and the other days maintenance.
[/quote]
hmm - can this involve high frequency or should it be something really like an upper/lower only 4 times a week thing? I always want to add in cardio when I’m doing that. I get to feeling antsy.
The thing is I’m not naturally skinny. My body likes to gain fat. When I was young I was chubby. Then I started running and eating nothing and away the weight went. Then I started lifting and eating and it went up. Then I got fatter again. Then I got LEAN on the HF program, and now I’ve just gotten skinny. But maybe you are right that with my current condition I need a different approach to gain the mass I want.
So maybe HF with heavy lifting? Or is that mixing things up too much?
yeah, exactly - definition but no size or strength.
well, I have been eating before bed. Probably too much. However, I workout right after getting up. I guess I could change this, but it’s really the pattern I like right now. This means just downing some whey, berries, and BCAAs and hitting the gym. However, I guess on this approach I have never actually gained mass. Although that might just be the overall lack of cals. What do you think? As long as I eat enough the day through will it be impossible to gain on this style?
I am afraid of fat gain by eating carbs before and during. I definitely know that when I first started doing the HF thing last summer that worked so well I had Surge before and that stubborn ab fat just piled up. I switched to whey before, Surge only after and that stopped. BUT I was leaning out while adding some size in good places like my legs. And my weight dropped 4-5 lbs over the summer.
The year before that summer when I gained 30 lbs though I was eating breakfast then working out 2 hrs. later. I just hate doing that, but I could change if it’s necessary…
Thanks again for the encouragement and advice. I’m thinking maybe I can really succeed this time if I try to apply everything diligently and let go a little with the food.
[quote]sarah1 wrote:
StandTall wrote:
Thank you Sarah.
I think you are doing well also. My opinion is that you just simply need to eat a lot and to rest after the 10 days until you are not tired anymore. More training is good, but not all the time it has to be cycled. I would stop adding volume, it will allow your muscles to become more efficient and then on your heavy days you will be able to use more weight.
You are slow twitch dominate because of the volume you are used to. If you give your body time to adjust it will start using more muscle fibers to fire at once and you will soon be using more weight. Does that make sense? My wife was a distance runner and a soccer player and had the same problem, I’ve helped her go from 5ft 4in 110lbs “skinny fat” to 125lbs rock hard and from a size 6 to a size 4 bigger muscles great v shape.
What did you think of my idea for a training split while you are hiking so much?
Hey Standtall-
Thanks for the input-
In terms of the program you suggested - I’m thinking it’s where I’ll go after this. I just am going to be doing too much hiking probably to be doing the every morning thing. Plus work is picking up. I have commitments certain mornings.
I definitely sound like your wife - the slow twitch dominant. I find I can do barely any more weight for low reps than high reps - I’m good at just busting out many reps and I’m used to CRAZY high volume.
However, I’ve tried cutting back drastically, trying to turn over to slow type, and it just didn’t work. I lose strength and definition. I was trying something like an upper mon, lower tues, wed off, upper thurs, sprints fri, hiking weekend (or just off)
Didn’t work at all. So maybe your HF approach with just less exercises is the way to go? Is that what you had your wife do? (Her results sound FANTASTIC by the way - just what I need except I have to go from 110 to maybe 140ish and cut hopefully eventually)
What do you think about the rest period question? Should I not be doing circuits? I just love them!! And I find I can’t lift any more weight when I take the more rest usually.
[/quote]
Sarah1
I’d be willing to work with you on diet and training, but that has to be your first priority. You could still do the hiking and I think you’d be fine. You have to keep in mind that when you are trying to get your body to switch to something new it is probably going to take time. I believe I can help you, but I would want to be sure you were not going to waste my time. You need to really just relax and trust a program and a lot of the advice given you. You are sort of all over the board and your questions are very valid but this is not a race, this is a lifestyle and you need to develop your body and develop a training philosophy, you are not going to make progress by jumping to every end of the spectrum. Please don’t take this as a harsh lashing, I’m just trying to speak clearly.
Day 5 again in second cycle and I’m still not sore and I’m still hyper. It’s 10:30 again and I feel like running around in circles. And I’ve had ZERO caffeine and no Spike today. It’s just a random hyper energy.
Maybe it’s all the food…my extreme hunger is finally subsiding. Although I liked it - it gave me an excuse to eat and eat and eat.
I didn’t eat anything unhealthy the whole time either. Just all the good good foods I love like salmon, chicken, veggies galore, fruit, protein powders, etc. Although I think I will let myself have some energy bars soon. Just as a treat maybe.
I don’t know what to make of this lack of soreness the second time through. My muscles feel worked but not sore. I know you shouldn’t judge progress by soreness, but this is weird. CW said you were supposed to be sore. Makes me wonder if I’m somehow not pushing hard enough, but I can’t go heavier in the gym unless it’s just my mind.
I also have crazy idea of perhaps condensing the last few days and then stopping early for a 4th of July trip to the mountains. I am not sure though. I honestly want to make progress so much in the gym that it takes some of the enjoyment out of these trips for me.
Like the last trip I was worrying the whole time about the impact it would have on adding size. Plus I was dead tired. But I am tempted to go on this one. We could go somewhere really nice since it’s a longer period of time we have, and that would be worth it. That’s the other half of why I’m not into the shorter trips as much anymore.
I have 4 days left before we potentially leave. I did 5 days of the cycle. I was thinking I could possibly do 6 and 7 as an AM/PM tomorrow, just an early light workout Wed, then rest a full 2 days before starting hiking.
But maybe I should just not go. I’m divided. Sometimes these things are worth it to me though. Like last summer.
I did 130 mile trek in the sierras, and that was INCREDIBLE.
Honestly, I was thinking about it today, and THAT was the only thing in the world that I can think of besides my family that was worth the loss in muscle to me. I honestly can’t think of anything else, money, ANYTHING. But that was incredible.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Berardi stated on his website that Poliquin was very impressed with Waterbury’s work and Charles doesn’t seem to compliment easily.
[/quote]
Does anyone have a link to this?
Sarah
Take time to breath and enjoy life! Take the trip, you are in the summer and it seems that hiking is what you like to do. Do it.
If I were you and knowing how much you like circuits, I’d simply force myself to rest 45seconds between lifts and at least 15 seconds between limbs. You should be at or just before failure on ever single set on your weak limb.
Don’t worry about soreness. When my wife had the same isssues you have she didn’t feel sore and didn’t feel like she was working hard enough for almost 6 months and then all of a sudden she started getting stronger, had doms and started needing breaks becuase of the extra weight she was lifting.
One reason you may not be getting sore is that you did the same exercises everyday for 10 days and then you took a break and supercompensated.
Do not stop eating! Eat to your hearts content! Stop worrying about a minute amount of fat on your abs. I know how you women are. Listen women are supposed to have some fat, the figure girls do not look the way you see them 365days a year. They have to allow some fat gain. Once you reach your muscle goal you can be leaner all the time. Marc gave you some fantastic advice and he gave you some sincere completments that I’m sure everyone seeing your photo would agree with. Marc is very knowledgable and has the respect of two of the biggest most accomplished guys on this site DiscHoss and Amsterdam Animal, that says a lot. The energy you have is fine, it is part of the super compensation. The way you just trained allowed your body to adjust to more work, it is a good sign that the program is working. Also, you were probably underfeeding and now your body is getting the food it needs, that is huge.
[quote]sarah1 wrote:
Day 5 again in second cycle and I’m still not sore and I’m still hyper. It’s 10:30 again and I feel like running around in circles. And I’ve had ZERO caffeine and no Spike today. It’s just a random hyper energy.
[/quote]
Been squatting heavy 3 sets of 6 three days a week for the last 3 weeks. Went from 245 for 3 sets of 6 to 290 for 3 sets of 6. Yesterday I tried to go up to 295, and had lost a ton of strength. On friday I had done 3 sets of 6 with 290 squatting and sets of 275x6, 315x4 and 345x5 deadlifting as well as overhead pressing and pullups. My posterior chain was just shot. You know, that dead feeling, I could tell when I unracked my heavier warmup sets the weight felt so heavy on my back. Had to go down to 245 to get 3 sets of 6 with respectable form. Usually I would have just turned around and gone home. But I am really trying to push this here. And really crap out, then recover, see what happens. Also, my powercleans yesterday were very sloppy, pretty weak there as well. But my bench press went up 5 pound for 3 sets of 6, but just going on instinct, I bet my next workout will see my bench drop quite a bit… we will see…
[quote]will-of-iron wrote:
IamMarqaos wrote:
Berardi stated on his website that Poliquin was very impressed with Waterbury’s work and Charles doesn’t seem to compliment easily.
Does anyone have a link to this?[/quote]
From his website:
Chad’s a top notch strength coach, a well published author, and a hard-training athlete himself.
Further, Chad has earned high praise from many in the performance industry. In fact, at a recent seminar I did with legendary strength coach Charles Poliquin, Charles heaped praise upon Chad and his work.
Marc
Okay, this is getting insane. I am so hyper (with no stimulants at all) that I can’t even work. (my work is all on my computer) I almost WANT my body to SLOW DOWN.
However, I’m getting worn out. It’s more a hyper random energy that I have. It was very hard to wake up this morning, and I keep feeling in my workouts that I’m just not taxing my body to the full because my mind just gives out, no matter how hard I try to push through. My normal drive is not there.
I was not sore and am still not. I am needing more rest between things though. My muscles are also getting the fuller feeling like last time, just they aren’t sore or tired. Still, my lifts are not increasing.
So that being said, I do think I want to go on this trip. We would probably start hiking Saturday. Today is Tuesday and I just completed day 6. I could just stop now to rest before the trip (I am NOT doing the same as last time - I need at LEAST 2.5 days of rest I think.).
I could do the day 7 today in the pm, 8 tomorrow morning, then call it quits. I probably should do that, but it will be hard to go to the gym this evening. Or I could do the medium workout tomorrow (day 7) then stop. So many options - recommendations?
After this I think I am going to be doing something more strength based with the help of StandTall and try to even let go of some leanness if necessary to ultimately reach my goals of being strong, healthy, AND lean. Not just skinny. I’ve got to thank you all again. I’ve gotten SO much good advice from this thread!
Sarah1,
Perhaps it is best you just stop after day 7 or 8 and prepare for your trip. You are certainly going through an interesting period in this program!
It sounds like your body is adapting to the increased demand and frequency but that your mind is not yet adapted.
I often times get this way as well and I can never really pinpoint why I feel that way but the one thing that helps me is increasing my protein DRAMATICALLY for 1-3 days. That usually makes me feel better immediately.
I felt like this last week actually and boiled 24 eggs, cooked 8 bison patties and steamed two bags of broccoli. I also cooked 8 turkey breasts and had 24 slices of pineapple available. I ate this in less then 3 days and felt 110% better. Gained 2lbs too! (and another 1/8 on the arms).
Like I mentioned before, we grow in waves, perhaps your body is ready to add muscle tissue and needs more nutrients from you (protein and fat, not carbs). Perhaps…
Good luck and enjoy the trip…a bit better this time, I hope
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Been squatting heavy 3 sets of 6 three days a week for the last 3 weeks. Went from 245 for 3 sets of 6 to 290 for 3 sets of 6. Yesterday I tried to go up to 295, and had lost a ton of strength. On friday I had done 3 sets of 6 with 290 squatting and sets of 275x6, 315x4 and 345x5 deadlifting as well as overhead pressing and pullups. My posterior chain was just shot. You know, that dead feeling, I could tell when I unracked my heavier warmup sets the weight felt so heavy on my back. Had to go down to 245 to get 3 sets of 6 with respectable form. Usually I would have just turned around and gone home. But I am really trying to push this here. And really crap out, then recover, see what happens. Also, my powercleans yesterday were very sloppy, pretty weak there as well. But my bench press went up 5 pound for 3 sets of 6, but just going on instinct, I bet my next workout will see my bench drop quite a bit… we will see…[/quote]
Thanks for posting, good luck, take it easy and be careful. Warm up more then usually, OK?
Marc
Ok, so I am began my “Training Til Depressed” cycle today, inspired by Poliquin’s "Super Accumulation "article.
I have waited this long because I was in the middle of a workout schedule when that article was first posted.
I intend to follow CP’s advice pretty much to the letter, except I have decided that with this frequency I need to workout at home (rather than the gym)
and so will only be doing exercises that I can do with barbell, dumbell, bench, squat rack and dip station. In other words, skipping stuff that requires a machine, like leg curls.
Given that, I am doing a lot of compound exercises. This AM I did Front Squat, Weighted Dips, one-arm dumbell row and Power Clean. This evening when I go home, it will be deadlift, military press, and barbell row. Tomorrow AM, back squat, floor press, BB lunges and trap bar shrugs.
I would like to have incorporated the chin-ups, but right now my elbow issues seem aggravated by those (though dips dont cause any problems).
Wolfing down 30-40 grams of Biotest BCAA during each workout. What doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger…or broke or crazy (look how poor Nietzche ended his days)!!! Also eating 40 grams of fish oil per day: 20 grams Flameout, 20 grams Whole Foods Generic brand fish oil (which I pray wasn’t manufactured for them in some chinese sweatshop).
Hope others going through such a program will continue to post. We need to be mutually supportive in such an endeavor.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Sarah1,
Perhaps it is best you just stop after day 7 or 8 and prepare for your trip. You are certainly going through an interesting period in this program!
It sounds like your body is adapting to the increased demand and frequency but that your mind is not yet adapted.
I often times get this way as well and I can never really pinpoint why I feel that way but the one thing that helps me is increasing my protein DRAMATICALLY for 1-3 days. That usually makes me feel better immediately.
I felt like this last week actually and boiled 24 eggs, cooked 8 bison patties and steamed two bags of broccoli. I also cooked 8 turkey breasts and had 24 slices of pineapple available. I ate this in less then 3 days and felt 110% better. Gained 2lbs too! (and another 1/8 on the arms).
Like I mentioned before, we grow in waves, perhaps your body is ready to add muscle tissue and needs more nutrients from you (protein and fat, not carbs). Perhaps…
Good luck and enjoy the trip…a bit better this time, I hope :)[/quote]
Yeah, this program is sure having some interesting effects. I love it. I was getting really really bored in the gym and this was refreshing! I hate the days off though. I really hate them.
Today was AWESOME. I decided not to go in the PM yesterday (I hate pm sessions) and instead went and bought more food. I also kind of cheated yesterday. I had planned on having a higher carb day (I have to force myself to do those - I just am used to not eating carbs) I had an extra serving of fruit and this little 100 cal brownie with 14g. carbs and 7g. fiber. Then later in the day I had a small piece of chocolate.
Bu then this morning for some odd reason I had a GREAT workout! It was med. and I just increased on some things immensely! I did 12 reps with my 6 rep weight for the chest press. Then the 12 reps with bent rows were easy! My legs were not good.
But then in the 5 min (which for me is usually more lie 25) I decided to try squats again. I haven’t done them since the beginning. I increased by 20 lbs!!! It was easy too! It was great. Maybe it was the 20 extra carb grams yesterday? I’m going to have to play with carbs etc to see how they effect me. If eating more carbs the day before makes workouts like these I’ll do it everyday!
I think I have to stop now though. As it is I will only have 2 days before hiking. It kills me to be out of the gym though. I guess I need it to grow though and I’ve probably done enough damage in the 7 days now to still get good growth?
Do you think so? My lats do feel like they are about to break. Not sore, but if I stress them it feels like they will snap. Weight was about 113 today.
One thing that I read that scared me a while back and that has me holding back with the weight gain a little is when CT said that one can only put on about 1 lb of muscle a month so if you want to make lean gains it must be SUPER slow. It’s a hard line to set though. I kept trying and trying to set a cal level that has me gaining slowly but I’m not sure if I’m actually not gaining at all.
I think I actually was gaining about 1 lb a month - I mean if I’m 112-113 now and started at 108 4 months ago. But that one time about a week ago I actually saw a 107 on the scale. So I’m not sure what the net is.
That is why I struggle with deciding on the number of cals to eat. I upped my intake by 300 cals a day for the last week. It’s scaring me. I know for sure I must be gaining. But I also have a tendancy to overestimate fat. What would you suggest aiming for?
I remember you telling me about how things go in waves - it won’t be linear. I don’t know how long I should wait between adjustments to know. Maybe I should adjust back down - the increase was perhaps premature. I want to keep the gains as lean as possible. But I feel like maybe I could make a little faster gains if I ate more healthy things? Maybe just more protein? Not sure.
I love the suggestion of eating more protein though. That had me happy. I went and drank a shake and had a big chicken salad. I LOVE protein!
Sarah,
How many carbs are you typically eating each day? Please distinguish between peri-workout and other times of the the day. Also, do you adjust you diet for your multi day hiking? Was your hiking diet from a week and a half ago different from previous year hiking trips?
[quote]Seattle_Lifter wrote:
Sarah,
How many carbs are you typically eating each day? Please distinguish between peri-workout and other times of the the day. Also, do you adjust you diet for your multi day hiking? Was your hiking diet from a week and a half ago different from previous year hiking trips?
[/quote]
Hi Seattle_Lifter-
I typically eat 0-15g. of carbs in the form of fruit before working out (I workout 45min-1hr after waking)
Post workout: 1/2 serving surge = 25g.
1 hr. post workout:
onions in omelet: 7g, fruit, 10-20g., oatmuffin I make (10-15g.), 3 servings snap peas -15g.
So total periworkout = about 65-80 depending on the day.
Usually the rest of the day I just have veggies to my heart’s content (adding up to sometimes close to 40-60 just from veggies) I also have 2 servings of protein with 4 g. of carbs each.
so day’s totals I estimate are around 120 most days.
Protein I eat 200 at LEAST. Fat - 50-60. I tend to fill in calories with veggies and protein. That’s my favorite and feels safest.
I find that I feel like crap if I don’t eat at least surge post workout and maybe some fruit. But with the current levels I have crazy energy. It is less than many seem to recommend, but it does seem to give me energy.
I did try having a 3rd carb meal (as I said, just about 20 g. more) yesterday though, and it was very uncomfortable to do, but maybe it contributed to my good workout? Hard to know without trying things out consistently and observing.
Hiking - I was thinking of asking you about this. I tend to eat probably not enough.
I tote along mostly protein powder, bars, jerky, and tuna.
My eating is like this (on a non-serious trip - I was eating more on the JMT):
wake up - eat 50 g. whey and 1 serving oats
before heading out from camp - down another 20-30g. whey
then eat every 1-2 hours - at these times I will usually eat about 100-250 cals usually from an energy bar (along the lines of MD bars or I also like detour oat bars which I will eat half of) I sometimes try to go low carb. I’ll eat atkins low carb bars occassionally. I love them, but they are not healthy. I eat a lot of jerky.
On weekend trips I’ll bring fruit. For dinner I try to avoid carbs and eat more fats with protein. I still tend to get sick trying to eat a lot in one sitting before bed. I eat BCAAs all day long too.
I tend to think that I should minimize fats during the day, but then I get scared of too too many carbs, so I end up eating a lot of protein. I was wondering esp. at these lower elevations if I should be eating more fats. I find that the little bits of fat (each bar usually has at least 5 g.) add up though, so I get sufficient fats just not adding any others. I don’t know.
This last trip I definitely ate a little different since it was so short. I mean, we drove 5 hours the first day (during which I ate a lot of fruit) and then we hiked for 2. I ate very little the whole time. It was only 2 hours.
Then the next day I DEF. did not eat enough. I had my oats breakfast and hiked out on that and some jerky. I ate ravenously the whole way home.
Oh, and thanks SO much for the link to your website. I’m enjoying it a lot.
Thanks for the detailed response. I have written some comments below.
[quote]sarah1 wrote:
Hi Seattle_Lifter-
I typically eat 0-15g. of carbs in the form of fruit before working out (I workout 45min-1hr after waking)
Post workout: 1/2 serving surge = 25g.
1 hr. post workout:
onions in omelet: 7g, fruit, 10-20g., oatmuffin I make (10-15g.), 3 servings snap peas -15g.
So total periworkout = about 65-80 depending on the day.
[/quote]
Your peri-workout nutrition seems pretty good. You do say 0-15 so that must mean sometimes you workout on and empty stomach and fasted from the night before. Have you ever tried a half serving of surge before or during your workout? I think it could really help you energy during your workout.
I did some rough calculations on percentages from the macros. If we say 220 for protein, 120 carbs, and 55 fat you would have 47% from protein, 26% from carbs and 27% from fat.
Since your goal is to put on mass and by looking at how lean your legs are from the picture I would think you would be better off adding more carbs in the first few meals of the day in place of some protein. At your weight you could easily get by with less protein and I think the carbs would really help.
[quote]
I find that I feel like crap if I don’t eat at least surge post workout and maybe some fruit. But with the current levels I have crazy energy. It is less than many seem to recommend, but it does seem to give me energy.
I did try having a 3rd carb meal (as I said, just about 20 g. more) yesterday though, and it was very uncomfortable to do, but maybe it contributed to my good workout? Hard to know without trying things out consistently and observing.
Hiking - I was thinking of asking you about this. I tend to eat probably not enough.
I tote along mostly protein powder, bars, jerky, and tuna.
My eating is like this (on a non-serious trip - I was eating more on the JMT):
wake up - eat 50 g. whey and 1 serving oats
before heading out from camp - down another 20-30g. whey
then eat every 1-2 hours - at these times I will usually eat about 100-250 cals usually from an energy bar (along the lines of MD bars or I also like detour oat bars which I will eat half of) I sometimes try to go low carb. I’ll eat atkins low carb bars occassionally. I love them, but they are not healthy. I eat a lot of jerky. [/quote]
If you are going to be hiking 5 or more hours a day you definitely are going to want to eat a lot more carbs and a lot more total calories. I would add more fat calories too. Especially considering your goal of gain mass, you don’t want to go too far into calorie deficit. You could easily burn over 4,000 calories a day hiking 8 or more hours.
[quote]
On weekend trips I’ll bring fruit. For dinner I try to avoid carbs and eat more fats with protein. I still tend to get sick trying to eat a lot in one sitting before bed. I eat BCAAs all day long too.
I tend to think that I should minimize fats during the day, but then I get scared of too too many carbs, so I end up eating a lot of protein. I was wondering esp. at these lower elevations if I should be eating more fats. I find that the little bits of fat (each bar usually has at least 5 g.) add up though, so I get sufficient fats just not adding any others. I don’t know. [/quote]
Honestly if you are going to spend many hours hiking each day on a trip I think it would be impossible to eat more calories than you burn. I know I eat like a totally different person when on a mountaineering trip. I add carbs to my water, eat bagel sandwiches, eat as high of calories freeze dried meals as I can find, snack on chocolate, nuts, and candy bars.
In the city I eat very strictly. Most of my carbs are around the workout and the rest of the time is vegetables, lean protein and healthy fats.
Just this last weekend I climbed Mt Rainier. That involved carrying a 40 pound pack, traveling about 26 miles and gaining over 10,000 feet in elevation. Not to mention the energy it took to keep warm and the increased resting heart rate you have at elevation. I probably burned 7-8,000 calories each day. Just to keep my energy levels up I have to add high calorie foods that I would never eat in the city.
You’re welcome for the link. I think it is wise to take the two days off before the trip if you are thinking the trip will be strenuous and/or you feel slightly run down from your current training. Have a great trip.
Just started today. Couldn’t wait any longer. Train went fine. The low reps allow me to move serious weights (in comparison to “normal training”), although the exercises are completely different to what I’ve done before.
I’ll keep you posted. Took measurements today and weighed myself for a final judgement after the program.
greets