[quote]DIPS33 wrote:
so far im on day 4 of Polquins program, gained strength and sise so far…am waiting ofr the eventual drop in weight and energy[/quote]
Good luck, keep us posted. i would love to find out how much muscle people gain on this.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
abominabelsnoman wrote:
I’m on day 7. Can’t hardly get out of bed… interestingly, I have actually gained weight and I’m pretty sure I lost some body fat.
Are you starting to lose strength?
Marc[/quote]
Yeah, I am. I am also feeling pretty drained outside the gym–doing some light work around the yard today was brutal. Mowing the lawn felt like HIIT…
Okay, thanks - I will have fun for sure. Nothing makes me happier than climbing up a mountain. Only thing I hae to keep in mind is not letting myself stress while I’m doing it that I’m somehow “screwing” up the gains of the week. Is it possible to view it as a continuation of the program to be beating up my muscles a bit more and then whey will super compensate and grow? This is something I always wonder about. When goals are size and strength (primarily size) if you give a good stimulus with weights (like I did in these 10 days) and THEN kill them with cardio and THEN rest them does it not work the same way as if you had not done the cardio? Or does it negate the weights? I wonder too much!
I had two other things I wanted to respond to:
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
If you are improving nicely on ‘regular’ programs just leave them for times you need to get out of a rut
[/quote]
I’ve actually never gotten great results with a regular program. But then again I’ve never really had much success gaining muscle. I’m just really good at recomposition and leaning out - like that summer I did put on some muscle in that I lost BF but sayed a similar weight (well, went down about 5 lbs). I really need to master the adding mass thing.
I will! One thing I wonder about - my muscles always feel so full and are bigger after these workouts. Esp now. But it seems when I wake up in the morning it’s all gone. Will the rest time make them stay big? Although I guess my long hike will cause problems with that. 
Yeah, I’m thinking I will go. I do take BCAAs. I’m really frustrated T-Nation is out. I’m going to have to be taking a MILLION other pills/
Yeah, I’m really undecided. I asked 2 docs and 1 said wait, see if you heal on your own as you gain weight since I’m unhealthily low right now (I was also hoping this program with single legged stuff would help) The other says do it. I wanted to do 2 cycles of this program and maybe then do it - have a mega rest period. But maybe since they have an opening Tuesday I should just do it now. But then again, many people have said cortisone does no good. I left a message with my doc again. I’ll see what she says. I mean, it’s been feeling better, but maybe it’s just masked by general muscle soreness.
I’ve been so tired today too! I think I will most defintely take tomorrow off before my trip. I won’t be able to hike otherwise!
IamMarqaos thanks for your answers that is excellent.
I hope people realise that this kind of 2 on 1 off training is the kind of stuff your body likes … it takes about 2 weeks of effort to get your body to think “holy crap I better make changes to keep up with this lifestyle”. If you push yourself hard for a day or a week, your body will probably ignore it. But TWO WEEKS - it doesn’t ignore it. It thinks this is the new life.
But here is the catch, do it for 3 weeks, and you have no time to recover, your body thinks “well I am doing OK no need to grow more just getting by”.
Some people of course it is 3 weeks on and 1 off they need, and others, maybe 1.5 on and 2 weeks off, who knows. Everyone is a bit different and everyone has different times in their life where they might be different yet again.
The articles were good at pointing out the negative side effects - depression, fatigue, loss of strength - the cumulative effects. Don’t fear these things, be aware that is how it goes. There is no need to drag that on for too long, though, especially for a beginner.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
IamMarqaos thanks for your answers that is excellent.
I hope people realise that this kind of 2 on 1 off training is the kind of stuff your body likes … it takes about 2 weeks of effort to get your body to think “holy crap I better make changes to keep up with this lifestyle”. If you push yourself hard for a day or a week, your body will probably ignore it. But TWO WEEKS - it doesn’t ignore it. It thinks this is the new life.
But here is the catch, do it for 3 weeks, and you have no time to recover, your body thinks “well I am doing OK no need to grow more just getting by”.
Some people of course it is 3 weeks on and 1 off they need, and others, maybe 1.5 on and 2 weeks off, who knows. Everyone is a bit different and everyone has different times in their life where they might be different yet again.
The articles were good at pointing out the negative side effects - depression, fatigue, loss of strength - the cumulative effects. Don’t fear these things, be aware that is how it goes. There is no need to drag that on for too long, though, especially for a beginner.
[/quote]
This is interesting. I’m feeling like although I’m tired, after about day 5 I got into the swing of things and felt like I could keep going and going. Basically it’s these 25 rep days partly.
I was so dead coming into this last workout, and it is SO hard to push through that many reps, but I found after every high rep day I was a bit less sore the next day. Although I must say I just finished day 10 and it’s either the heat or something turned because I’m having trouble having the energy to walk up stairs.
(I better get back that energy before sat when I’ll be climbing up mountains…)
Day 5
Muscles literally warm all over almost like having a fever. I was actually able to use more weight on most exercises again today. I’ll keep pushing the weights up as long as I can.
I really think today was the end of that though…but I’m going to bust my ass and try to push it as far as possible. If by some strange reason weights don’t go down, I’ll work a lagging body part during the PM of Days 8, 9, and 10.
I’m waiting until then though because I’m very sluggish tonight. My joints feel very good compared to a few weeks ago, this unilateral only work must be exactly what I needed…plus it is actaully low volume.
I’ve been thinking about the weight gain versus Poloquin saying weight loss. My theory is that one could probably gain weight the first few days on Poloquin’s plan but eventually the body is going to really take a dive because of the load on the spine.
I thin that Chad’s 30 program is built to add muscle during the accumulation and during the rest. The reason it can add muscle, imo, during the intensity phase is because it is single limbed which provides better HTMU recruitment and also the spine is never really loaded. That is a serious CNS break for most T-Nation folks. I know it is for me.
So it does tax the CNS, but it taxes the muscle more than the CNS allowing for maximal muscle growth. I am interested to know why I’m able to keep adding weight though. Maybe it is because although I use unilateral work I’ve used barbell moves for much longer and the three big ones for many years…??? Anyway good stuff and my muscles are getting beaten.
Guys,
Thanks for posting your experiences with this type of training. It has been very informative.
Marqaos,
You are a true asset to this site. Your experience, knowledge, and most importantly, your attitude is admirable.
Thanks for sharing
Okay, something snapped today - I am so sore! I could barely get out of bed. Good thing day 10 was yesterday. I don’t know how well I’m going to do on this trip. I think I will suggest we do something really short!! This program is great fun. I haven’t been this sore in ages.
[quote]sarah1 wrote:
Is it possible to view it as a continuation of the program to be beating up my muscles a bit more and then whey will super compensate and grow? When goals are size and strength (primarily size) if you give a good stimulus with weights (like I did in these 10 days) and THEN kill them with cardio and THEN rest them does it not work the same way as if you had not done the cardio? Or does it negate the weights? I wonder too much!
Answer: I personally believe that killing them with cardio after will negate the effects of what you did. It will be overtraining and not overreaching. Now mind you, that’s KILLING it with cardio. Enjoying a good hike while making sure you rest well and eat well can actually be beneficial. I see that as active recovery!
sarah1 wrote:
I had two other things I wanted to respond to:
You said that If you are improving nicely on ‘regular’ programs just leave them for times you need to get out of a rut.
Answer:
Ah, I meant regular HF programs I think. The AM/PM programs should be left to when you want to burst through a plateau.
sarah1 wrote:
I’m just really good at recomposition and leaning out - like that summer I did put on some muscle in that I lost BF but sayed a similar weight (well, went down about 5 lbs). I really need to master the adding mass thing.
Answer:
As a former extremely skinney guy I find it really hard to eat above maintenance consistantely. Is that perhaps where you have trouble as well?
Increasing mass really is an issue of food intake (the right kind). I made great gains is lean mass when taking in micellar protein before, carbs during and micellar protein, whey and a little carbs after the sessions.
With my fast metabolism I found that fast proteins did NOT help. Slow proteins before, carbs during and slow and fast proteins after really seemed to do the trick. Food for thought, pardon the pun.
sarah1 wrote:
One thing I wonder about - my muscles always feel so full and are bigger after these workouts. Esp now. But it seems when I wake up in the morning it’s all gone. Will the rest time make them stay big? Although I guess my long hike will cause problems with that.
Answer:
To keep the fullness in the morning you might need to eat protein, fat AND carbs before bed. Chad recommends 33/33/33 before bed in his book (if you do not have a copy, it’s really worth the price) and everytime I eat like that I wake up ‘pumped’!
My meal of choice is 4 cups cottage cheese, full fat, one tbs of walnut oil, cinnamon and some dextrose or honey to sweeten it. I add a cup of raisens and a banana. Now that’s a huge meal but I am close to 245lbs, so adapt accordingly 
sarah1 wrote:
I left a message with my doc again. I’ll see what she says. I mean, it’s been feeling better, but maybe it’s just masked by general muscle soreness.
Answer:
Well, I hope you get better soon. With a bit of luck it really is better already.
sarah1 wrote:
I’ve been so tired today too! I think I will most defintely take tomorrow off before my trip. I won’t be able to hike otherwise!
Answer:
Good luck and enjoy the trip!!
Magarhe wrote:
I hope people realise that this kind of 2 on 1 off training is the kind of stuff your body likes …
If you push yourself hard for a day or a week, your body will probably ignore it. But TWO WEEKS - it doesn’t ignore it. It thinks this is the new life.
Answer:
MAGARHE, I HOPE PEOPLE READ YOUR FULL POST TWICE!
Those are excellent points.
Thanks,
Marc
Day 5 and now my whole body aches its starting to get hard now, but i have no pain in my joints.
Day 6 of Chad’s 30 day
“Light day” first circuit I busted my ass and moved up in weight. I was good until the third exercise of the second circuit, I hit a serious wall. It was like running with the wind in the 400meter dash and then once you turn that last corner and are running against the wind and you feel like the devil set your lungs on fire and shot a bullet in each ass cheak…yeah that kind of wall. I had no energy and no strength, rested 2 to 5 minutes between exercises and 30 to 60 seconds between limbs just to finish, I also drastically reduced weight used. I had a hard time getting out of bed this morning and am sure tomorrow will be the same. Oh, but joints feel great, better than usual by at least 60%.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Answer: I personally believe that killing them with cardio after will negate the effects of what you did. It will be overtraining and not overreaching. Now mind you, that’s KILLING it with cardio. Enjoying a good hike while making sure you rest well and eat well can actually be beneficial. I see that as active recovery!
[/quote]
Will do - this made me relax a bit. Thank GOODNESS I started feeling better. Yesterday I was dead. I had to take it off - no choice there! I’m worried since my knee and glute/ham area hurt (my 2 little long time injuries.) But I’m hoping it will just go away…others are saying their joints don’t hurt at all after beginning the program…
Ah, cool. I get it.
It is most defnintely diet. I tend to struggle with accepting ANY fat and this fear holds be back from eating a lot. I really wanted to ask you something on this too. I tend to eat very high protein, lower/med carbs fat. I see you really eat a lot of carbs (well in comparison to me) Do you find that really necessary? Or is it just a function of cals in cals out? I mean, if I got a diet of 2500 cals, getting about 100g of carbs, 50 of fat, and the rest filled in by protein would it somehow not work as well as a diet with a 33/33/33 split?
That’s really interesting. Why is it? And is it important for your muscles to say that way? They are staying that way right now. I think I really beat them up the last 10 days…
Will do!! THANK YOU!!!
[quote]StandTall wrote:
Day 5
I’ve been thinking about the weight gain versus Poloquin saying weight loss. My theory is that one could probably gain weight the first few days on Poloquin’s plan but eventually the body is going to really take a dive because of the load on the spine.
I thin that Chad’s 30 program is built to add muscle during the accumulation and during the rest. The reason it can add muscle, imo, during the intensity phase is because it is single limbed which provides better HTMU recruitment and also the spine is never really loaded. That is a serious CNS break for most T-Nation folks. I know it is for me.
So it does tax the CNS, but it taxes the muscle more than the CNS allowing for maximal muscle growth. I am interested to know why I’m able to keep adding weight though. Maybe it is because although I use unilateral work I’ve used barbell moves for much longer and the three big ones for many years…??? Anyway good stuff and my muscles are getting beaten.[/quote]
I appreciate your thoughts on this. I have been mulling that one over as well. I wonder in the end, what would give you the most gain in lean lbs of muscle. Which program will yield the most lean muscle gain?
Poliquin is usually quick to note how much strength and weight people gain in his programs so I wish he would have included a range (he did mention going from 200 to 205 so would that mean 5lbs of muscle after one cycle?).
I am very curious as to how much you will gain!
Good luck in these final days of the plan!
Marc
[quote]new2training wrote:
Marqaos,
You are a true asset to this site. Your experience, knowledge, and most importantly, your attitude is admirable.
Thanks for sharing[/quote]
You are more then welcome. Thanks for the kind words.
Have you started this program as well?
Marc
[quote]DIPS33 wrote:
Day 5 and now my whole body aches its starting to get hard now, but i have no pain in my joints.[/quote]
Great! I started using a lot more single limb exercises since Mike Boyle strated writing for T-Nation and my joints have been 50% better!
Keep us posted and good luck,
Marc
[quote]StandTall wrote:
Day 6 of Chad’s 30 day
“Light day” first circuit I busted my ass and moved up in weight. I was good until the third exercise of the second circuit, I hit a serious wall. It was like running with the wind in the 400meter dash and then once you turn that last corner and are running against the wind and you feel like the devil set your lungs on fire and shot a bullet in each ass cheak…yeah that kind of wall. I had no energy and no strength, rested 2 to 5 minutes between exercises and 30 to 60 seconds between limbs just to finish, I also drastically reduced weight used. I had a hard time getting out of bed this morning and am sure tomorrow will be the same. Oh, but joints feel great, better than usual by at least 60%.[/quote]
Man! 4 more days! I am really looking forward to seeing the results you are going to get from this!
Keep it up!
Marc
Day 7 went well and believe it or not my performance went up! I’m going to do day 8 in a few hours. Today the smallest things are pissing me off, I’m so tired and blah feeling I could lay in bed all day but even then would not be comfortable. It is all I can do to write this email.
I’m having a hard time not quitting my job and I seriously thought about hurting someone that pissed me off. Thankfully I know what is going on and have not lashed out at anyone, I’m just having a mental battle in the old noggen.
I’ll report Day 8 I think…I’m looking forward to Day 10. Oh and my joints are a little out of sorts now.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
StandTall wrote:
Day 6 of Chad’s 30 day
“Light day” first circuit I busted my ass and moved up in weight. I was good until the third exercise of the second circuit, I hit a serious wall. It was like running with the wind in the 400meter dash and then once you turn that last corner and are running against the wind and you feel like the devil set your lungs on fire and shot a bullet in each ass cheak…yeah that kind of wall. I had no energy and no strength, rested 2 to 5 minutes between exercises and 30 to 60 seconds between limbs just to finish, I also drastically reduced weight used. I had a hard time getting out of bed this morning and am sure tomorrow will be the same. Oh, but joints feel great, better than usual by at least 60%.
Man! 4 more days! I am really looking forward to seeing the results you are going to get from this!
Keep it up!
Marc[/quote]
Day 8
I tried to up the weights again and ended up with about 15 reps on most lifts. I did not do the rev lunges as my knees had some sharp pains. My elbows and hips have some achy dull pain which I’m all for, I think it is the tendons and ligs getting stronger, but sharp pain is a no go for me.
I’ve been very grumpy today and will be happy the break is here for about two days after which I’ll be getting very antsy! I hate time away from the gym! Hardest thing I do.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
new2training wrote:
Marqaos,
You are a true asset to this site. Your experience, knowledge, and most importantly, your attitude is admirable.
Thanks for sharing
You are more then welcome. Thanks for the kind words.
Have you started this program as well?
Marc[/quote]
I realize my body isn’t ready for a program like this. I’ve only been weight training for a little under a year.
I still enjoy eaves-dropping on the more advance training threads though.
Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge. You’re a good dude.