That’s funny I could have sworn I posted this already - relevant article on dual factor theory
Hope people learn something from it
good luck all
Hey guys. I’m on Day 19 now and I have to tell you that I gained some serious strength during the off period. I can use 10 pounds havier dumbells in some exercises. Thats incredible for me.
Nice program.
greets
[quote]ill wrote:
What did you expect would happen when you didn’t do direct arm work?
Seriously all it proves is your arm training was ineffective.
Contrary to popular belief squats and milk don’t increase fucking biceps size, especially if you aren’t training biceps…[/quote]
Rows will work your biceps. I never do direct biceps work but my biceps aren’t lagging. Or do you think that they do? Timme deadlift 217.5kg - YouTube
Yep, that is the one thing at ever single military installation that I’ve ever been at that you can count on is a decent gym. It does not matter if it is in Iraq, Afghanistan or Texas they will have one. Thier are guys go travel to outposts that are not really bases and I don’t know what they have, I’ll try to find out.
[quote]entheogens wrote:
StandTall wrote:
First off thank you for the view of training. I appreciate it. Did he critique your every set and rep or was it more hands off?
The gyms over here in Iraq and Afghanistan are pretty much like the commercial gyms in the states as far as equipment goes. The atmosphere is not quiet as bad, but you see people doing some really stupid shit! Most guys are still doing the muscle and fitness thing. They don’t care when I deadlift or anything like that. The gym I’m in currently is called a clamshell, and it is like a really big tent, you could fit a C130 airplane in it. If you are interested I’ll take a picture or two.
Well, he did critique me, but not to the point of making me self-conscious. He just critiqued the major flaws. For example, when I was pulling I had my feet too far apart. Likewise when I exploded into the clean, my feet were going way too wide.
Things like that. I would say his level of commentary was just right. Not completely hands-off, but also not critiqing me to the point that I became overly self-conscious of every move.
Tent or no tent, your description of the afghani gym sounds better than I expected. Is this a commercial gym or one that the US military has set up? Yes, I’d like too see pics of that gym, if it’s not too much trouble.
[/quote]
I’m on day 21 now. Feeling pretty tired. I’m looking forward resting a little. In spite of that, I think I gained a few pounds. But I’ll check that on Day 30 and let you all know.
greets
[quote]german-guy wrote:
I’m on day 21 now. Feeling pretty tired. I’m looking forward resting a little. In spite of that, I think I gained a few pounds. But I’ll check that on Day 30 and let you all know.
greets[/quote]
german-guy, how is it going? Keep on posting your results and how you feel, etc.
Well, I have gained 9 pounds. Was at 195 but am now at 204 (never mind my photo/avatar…that was taken a long time ago and just happened to be the only pic on my work computer the day that I joined T-Nation) I think a good part of that is muscle mass but there is probably some fat as well.
I added 25 pounds to my deadlift and 20 to my squat. I didn’t take any measurements (except for weight) beforehand.
People who didn’t know I was doing the program have commented that I look bigger. I was more interested in getting my weight numbers up.
Was it worth it? Definitely. Will I do it again? Yes, someday. However, I will change a few things. One mistake I made is not having a refined enough focus. I had this vague notion that I was just going to do it and do it with a lot of compound exercises (squats, deadlifts and cleans), but I do think that measurements were in order and a particular focus on an area of the body would have rendered more objective data.
Although I kept a workout log, I did not keep track of what I ate, the calories, etc. I also probably should have weighed myself daily. I did not do so…part of me thinks that “a watched pot never boils” 
As I have mentioned before, I did not always go to maximum on every set. Part of the reason for this is that I was doing stuff like deadlifts, romanian deadlifts and barbell rows, things that really tax the back, and I have been warned never to overtrain the back. Was I overcautious? Maybe…but I still got good results and did not injure my back.
I also think it would be best if it could be done during a vacation or similar period of low-stress. It really became overwhelming at times.
[quote]entheogens wrote:
Well, I have gained 9 pounds. Was at 195 but am now at 204 (never mind my photo/avatar…that was taken a long time ago and just happened to be the only pic on my work computer the day that I joined T-Nation) I think a good part of that is muscle mass but there is probably some fat as well.
Nice work.
I added 25 pounds to my deadlift and 20 to my squat. I didn’t take any measurements (except for weight) beforehand.
That is fantastic.
I also think it would be best if it could be done during a vacation or similar period of low-stress. It really became overwhelming at times.[/quote]
No doubt about that.
BTW I took those pictures and now for some reason my camera is not being recongnized by my laptop. I’ll try again later.
[quote]entheogens wrote:
german-guy wrote:
I’m on day 21 now. Feeling pretty tired. I’m looking forward resting a little. In spite of that, I think I gained a few pounds. But I’ll check that on Day 30 and let you all know.
greets
german-guy, how is it going? Keep on posting your results and how you feel, etc.
[/quote]
I quit on day 23. Had to work 3 days in a row in the yard. Was so sore and tired I couldn’t move my tiny finger without pain. So, I’m on day 4 of resting. Didn’t experience any gains until now and I don’t expect anything to change.
Don’t really know why nothing happened this time. I had less stress (except the yardwork at the end), ate good and had lots of sleep. Perhaps I already adapted to that kind of program (with such exercises and so on).
But cause I had such great results in the 1st 15 days and cause I think this is due to the great variety, I think I’ll try Doggcrapp for a while (can’t afford to go to the gym everyday when not having vacances).
greets
i have read about this training method a bit over the past month and i’ve really wanted to give it a shot. i have a quick question about the training though;
-
i’ve been training using a 4-day split (chest/tris, back/bis, shoulder/etc, legs) for about 4 weeks now since my last break. can i just start up on this program immediately or should i rest first?
-
i can only go to the gym once per day with my current situation. will i be able to take advantage of this training method or do i have to wait until i get some more free time?
also i would love some links of the actual workout layout, i can only seem to find articles talking about why the method works.
edit: actually i was curious too if you could just apply this to one body part. my chest lags and if i do this routine i plan on assaulting my chest like the OP did to his arms but i wonder if i will get similar results if i continue my 4-day split but train chest each of those days?
[quote]german-guy wrote:
Don’t really know why nothing happened this time. I had less stress (except the yardwork at the end), ate good and had lots of sleep. Perhaps I already adapted to that kind of program (with such exercises and so on).
[/quote]
Dont judge yet. I bet that you will see gains a few days after the rest period.
[quote]XpandemoniumX wrote:
1 can i just start up on this program immediately or should i rest first?
[/quote]
I rested a couple of days before starting. Poliquin did not indicate that but it might be a good idea.
Well, I did not go to the gym at all during this period. I worked out in my backyard. I have a 300 pound weight set, a squat rack and bench, so I was able to create a routine that did not require anything other than that. Poliquin says not to fuck with the menu. So, if you can’t workout twice a day, then I would just wait until you can.
The prototype is in Poliquin’s article on here about the Super Accumulation Program. Check it out.
[quote]
edit: actually i was curious too if you could just apply this to one body part. my chest lags and if i do this routine i plan on assaulting my chest like the OP did to his arms but i wonder if i will get similar results if i continue my 4-day split but train chest each of those days?[/quote]
Go back and read the first post of this thread. Marqaos concentrated on his arms, so you could apply it to one body part, though I think you would do well to throw in some compound movements like squats and deads.
Good luck!
[quote]StandTall wrote:
BTW I took those pictures and now for some reason my camera is not being recongnized by my laptop. I’ll try again later.
[/quote]
No problem buddy. I would love to see them, but I know how tempermental computers can be sometimes
I would go ahead and rest through the weekend and eat a shit load of food, even ice cream or something like that.[quote]german-guy wrote:
entheogens wrote:
german-guy wrote:
I’m on day 21 now. Feeling pretty tired. I’m looking forward resting a little. In spite of that, I think I gained a few pounds. But I’ll check that on Day 30 and let you all know.
greets
german-guy, how is it going? Keep on posting your results and how you feel, etc.
I quit on day 23. Had to work 3 days in a row in the yard. Was so sore and tired I couldn’t move my tiny finger without pain. So, I’m on day 4 of resting. Didn’t experience any gains until now and I don’t expect anything to change.
Don’t really know why nothing happened this time. I had less stress (except the yardwork at the end), ate good and had lots of sleep. Perhaps I already adapted to that kind of program (with such exercises and so on).
But cause I had such great results in the 1st 15 days and cause I think this is due to the great variety, I think I’ll try Doggcrapp for a while (can’t afford to go to the gym everyday when not having vacances).
greets[/quote]
Read the 30 Day Mass Plan by Chad Waterbury. You absolutely can do this type of work with out PM sessions. If you are going to do it for chest then also add in a shit load of external rotations. I’d use mostly dumbbells for your chest work and I’d use lots of floor presses with elbows flared.
You could do something like this:
Day 1
DB Floor presses elbows flared 3x5 (heavy) try to get more weight each time you do this.
Day 2
Steep incline elbows back as far as possible 2x12
Day 3
DB Bench presses 7x3 elbows back as far as possible
Day 4
DB Floor presses elbows flared 2x24
Day 5
DB Decline elbows flared 3x6
Repeat
Use the same sets and reps for different typs of external rotations. Use dumbbells with elbow resting on your knee that is up on a bench, use cables with elbow pinned to your side, use cables with elbow up high, you can even do one armed face pulls. This will keep your shoulders healthy. You would want to cut out your over head pressing and no front raises. You would want to include some rows on one day of the training and probably some chin ups at some point.
My chest grew with Chad’s 30 Day Mass plan which was all floor pressing, although that is probably my genetic gift when it comes to body parts, that and Triceps.
[quote]XpandemoniumX wrote:
i have read about this training method a bit over the past month and i’ve really wanted to give it a shot. i have a quick question about the training though;
-
i’ve been training using a 4-day split (chest/tris, back/bis, shoulder/etc, legs) for about 4 weeks now since my last break. can i just start up on this program immediately or should i rest first?
-
i can only go to the gym once per day with my current situation. will i be able to take advantage of this training method or do i have to wait until i get some more free time?
also i would love some links of the actual workout layout, i can only seem to find articles talking about why the method works.
edit: actually i was curious too if you could just apply this to one body part. my chest lags and if i do this routine i plan on assaulting my chest like the OP did to his arms but i wonder if i will get similar results if i continue my 4-day split but train chest each of those days?[/quote]
[quote]german-guy wrote:
Hey guys. I’m on Day 19 now and I have to tell you that I gained some serious strength during the off period. I can use 10 pounds havier dumbells in some exercises. Thats incredible for me.
Nice program.
greets[/quote]
Awesome, I am glad that it paid off. Doing a second cycle it seems. I wonder if Poilquin ever did that to his athletes
Good luck,
Marc
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
That’s funny I could have sworn I posted this already - relevant article on dual factor theory
Hope people learn something from it
good luck all[/quote]
That gentleman has written some great articles.
Marc
[quote]StandTall wrote:
First off thank you for the view of training. I appreciate it. Did he critique your every set and rep or was it more hands off?
The gyms over here in Iraq and Afghanistan are pretty much like the commercial gyms in the states as far as equipment goes. The atmosphere is not quiet as bad, but you see people doing some really stupid shit! Most guys are still doing the muscle and fitness thing. They don’t care when I deadlift or anything like that. The gym I’m in currently is called a clamshell, and it is like a really big tent, you could fit a C130 airplane in it. If you are interested I’ll take a picture or two.
entheogens wrote:
Standtall, given that you are over there in Afghanistan, what kind of training equipment do you have access to? No doubt somebody on T-Nation has asked you this before but I havent come across it and was just curious.
[/quote]
Thanks guys for posting both your experiences with Olympic lifting and what your gym is like in Afgahnistan!
I love reading this kind of stuff.
Hope you guys are both doing well, I appreciate you helping out in the thread certainly with Sarah and Skinnymuscles.
Marc
[quote]Timme wrote:
Rows will work your biceps. I never do direct biceps work but my biceps aren’t lagging. Or do you think that they do? Timme deadlift 217.5kg - YouTube
Seriously?
[quote]entheogens wrote:
Well, I have gained 9 pounds. Was at 195 but am now at 204 (never mind my photo/avatar…that was taken a long time ago and just happened to be the only pic on my work computer the day that I joined T-Nation) I think a good part of that is muscle mass but there is probably some fat as well.
I added 25 pounds to my deadlift and 20 to my squat. I didn’t take any measurements (except for weight) beforehand.
People who didn’t know I was doing the program have commented that I look bigger. I was more interested in getting my weight numbers up.
Was it worth it? Definitely. Will I do it again? Yes, someday. However, I will change a few things. One mistake I made is not having a refined enough focus. I had this vague notion that I was just going to do it and do it with a lot of compound exercises (squats, deadlifts and cleans), but I do think that measurements were in order and a particular focus on an area of the body would have rendered more objective data.
Although I kept a workout log, I did not keep track of what I ate, the calories, etc. I also probably should have weighed myself daily. I did not do so…part of me thinks that “a watched pot never boils”
As I have mentioned before, I did not always go to maximum on every set. Part of the reason for this is that I was doing stuff like deadlifts, romanian deadlifts and barbell rows, things that really tax the back, and I have been warned never to overtrain the back. Was I overcautious? Maybe…but I still got good results and did not injure my back.
I also think it would be best if it could be done during a vacation or similar period of low-stress. It really became overwhelming at times.[/quote]
Thanks for this. I am seriously considering doing a two week cycle based on your experiences. I haven’t trained to failure in quite a while so it might be quite the experience for me.
However, I might do a version of the 30 day mass plan first, especially now with Waterbury’s new guidelines in his latest article.
Argh, choices
Good luck,
Marc