Training Till Depressed: Results

Training Bodybuilding
301

[quote]german-guy wrote:
entheogens wrote:
german-guy wrote:
I’m on day 21 now. Feeling pretty tired. I’m looking forward resting a little. In spite of that, I think I gained a few pounds. But I’ll check that on Day 30 and let you all know.

greets

german-guy, how is it going? Keep on posting your results and how you feel, etc.

I quit on day 23. Had to work 3 days in a row in the yard. Was so sore and tired I couldn’t move my tiny finger without pain. So, I’m on day 4 of resting. Didn’t experience any gains until now and I don’t expect anything to change.

Don’t really know why nothing happened this time. I had less stress (except the yardwork at the end), ate good and had lots of sleep. Perhaps I already adapted to that kind of program (with such exercises and so on).

But cause I had such great results in the 1st 15 days and cause I think this is due to the great variety, I think I’ll try Doggcrapp for a while (can’t afford to go to the gym everyday when not having vacances).

greets[/quote]

Ah, sorry to read that. Well, great experiment for you anyway. SOmetimes a second time needs to come with a longer period in between.

Good luck with the DC training!

Marc

302

[quote]XpandemoniumX wrote:
i have read about this training method a bit over the past month and i’ve really wanted to give it a shot. i have a quick question about the training though;

  1. i’ve been training using a 4-day split (chest/tris, back/bis, shoulder/etc, legs) for about 4 weeks now since my last break. can i just start up on this program immediately or should i rest first?

  2. i can only go to the gym once per day with my current situation. will i be able to take advantage of this training method or do i have to wait until i get some more free time?

also i would love some links of the actual workout layout, i can only seem to find articles talking about why the method works.

edit: actually i was curious too if you could just apply this to one body part. my chest lags and if i do this routine i plan on assaulting my chest like the OP did to his arms but i wonder if i will get similar results if i continue my 4-day split but train chest each of those days?[/quote]

In your case I would really stick to the 30 day mass plan written by Chad and forego the Poliquin program.

You can rest a couple of days and then start the first day. Read some of the post of the people who have done it to educate yourself a bit and perhaps learn from their success and/or failures.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Marc

303

ah, shoot, thanks guys (standtall and entheogens) should have figured you had my back and were ready to give advice :slight_smile:

Good luck,

Marc

304

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Thanks for this. I am seriously considering doing a two week cycle based on your experiences. I haven’t trained to failure in quite a while so it might be quite the experience for me.

However, I might do a version of the 30 day mass plan first, especially now with Waterbury’s new guidelines in his latest article.

Argh, choices :slight_smile:

Good luck,

Marc[/quote]

Welcome back Marc. I hope you had a good trip.

With regard to your next program I think if you were to do the 30 day mass plan you would need to really add to the volume especially if you follow the rep speed model.

I just got done with 10 days and am on my third rest day. I did all six exercises each day like Dischoss and added about 10 minutes of lifting after that. I still felt like the volume was too low.

Strength kept going up however most of it was probably neural leaning since I don’t do many of those unilateral exercises. I didn’t really get run down near the end. The biggest challenge was keeping motivation up to do virtually the same exercises every day.

If you were to do it you could probably do something like you were doing before by choosing one main exercise like squats, presses, cleans, rows, etc to do first, then do the exercises Waterbury recommends and then add some free time exercises at the end all while incorporating the fast reps.

It seems the 30 day mass plan was designed for people who were doing 3-4 regular training sessions a week. You’re training has been much higher volume than that so I think you would need much more.

I’m not sure what I’m going to do after the 5 days rest. I won’t do the same plan however I may do something like what I just described that you might do. I would be more motivated to do the different main exercise each session.

Good luck.

Doug

305

I’ve just completed day 10 of 12 days on and am looking forward to the five or so rest days.

Been doing a bit of a hybrid version of the Poliquin type routine mixed up with a bit of Gironda’s stuff.

Been on two a day’s, training all bodyparts once every three days and arms have been getting 2 a days everyday.

I’ve concentrated on increasing density (reducing rest periods) a la Gironda & actually feel stronger from workout to workout. Sets average about 14 per bodypart plus 6 to 8 for arms each session.

Workout times have decreased from an average 35 mins each to around 22 mins over the twelve days.

Results have been excellent so far: Definite ncrease in all over size, arms definitely up, weight up about 3Kg so far. I feel tired but not exhausted, have some joint pain particularly in the shoulders. I am amazed that training against all the “old” rules can get you so fired up. Really enjoying my workouts.

I’ll keep you posted on the results.

All the best
Gazz

306

[quote]Seattle_Lifter wrote:
Welcome back Marc. I hope you had a good trip.

With regard to your next program I think if you were to do the 30 day mass plan you would need to really add to the volume especially if you follow the rep speed model.

I just got done with 10 days and am on my third rest day. I did all six exercises each day like Dischoss and added about 10 minutes of lifting after that. I still felt like the volume was too low.

Strength kept going up however most of it was probably neural leaning since I don’t do many of those unilateral exercises. I didn’t really get run down near the end. The biggest challenge was keeping motivation up to do virtually the same exercises every day.

If you were to do it you could probably do something like you were doing before by choosing one main exercise like squats, presses, cleans, rows, etc to do first, then do the exercises Waterbury recommends and then add some free time exercises at the end all while incorporating the fast reps.

It seems the 30 day mass plan was designed for people who were doing 3-4 regular training sessions a week. You’re training has been much higher volume than that so I think you would need much more.

I’m not sure what I’m going to do after the 5 days rest. I won’t do the same plan however I may do something like what I just described that you might do. I would be more motivated to do the different main exercise each session.

Good luck.

Doug[/quote]

Had a great time, Doug, thanks. Too good infact :slight_smile:
Only time of the year I drink is when I go home. Must be something in the air :slight_smile:

Thanks for the feedback on the 30 day mass program. I tend to agree with you in regards to the volume and exercises and the volume. I think it is a fantastic program for those who have not yet trained this way.

Since Waterbury came out with his HF training I have run with it in every direction and have done 6 sessions in row that were 4 times the volume of this plan so it might not work for me unless I up the volume big time.

Mike Boyle’s articles turned me on to single limb training and so that’s not a new stimulus for me either.

It sounds like it is doing it’s thing for you though. Strength going up is great. How are you on the rest period now? Getting larger?

Although I really want to do the super accumilation program (using Waterbury’s stuff), I hesitate because I know I will grow fastest at the legs and my back, my strong points, and I will again throw of my symmetry big time. I finally have my arms over 18 inches and that still does not really seem to be enough to balance me out. It looks like I need at least 19 now and 20 inches for sure if I start busting the squats and deads again. I could easily gain another 15lbs when squatting, rowing and deadlifting as I would during the super-accumilation program or even the 30-day mass program.

My arms and chest are really lacking in size but I don’t really want to specialize for another 6 weeks. Same old problem.

Another ‘itch’ I have is my desire to Deadlift 700lbs raw before I turn 40 :slight_smile: in April. I dream about it, you know. I do not know why it has been bugging me for so long. I visualize it twenty times per day…

Aargh, maybe I should just go for the underwear model look and drop 25lbs of fat…

My wife would like that :slight_smile:

Good luck,

Marc

307

[quote]Gazz wrote:
I’ve just completed day 10 of 12 days on and am looking forward to the five or so rest days.

Been doing a bit of a hybrid version of the Poliquin type routine mixed up with a bit of Gironda’s stuff.

Been on two a day’s, training all bodyparts once every three days and arms have been getting 2 a days everyday.

I’ll keep you posted on the results.

All the best
Gazz[/quote]

Interesting. Keep us posted!
Did you experience any muscle loss?

Marc

308

Here’s one negative thing about the Poliquin recommendation.
I would watch the simple carbs during the 5-day post workout period if you are over 35 (like me). Some of the poundage I gained went to lean muscle, some also went to my abdomen.

Hell, I didn’t even eat the ice-cream he suggested, but I ate a lot of Whole Wheat bread and continued drinking the Surge (even though I wasn’t working out). I think the advice about eating a lot of extra calories applies to 20 year olds with fast metabolisms.

309

Entheogens, did you ever get anything like the 20% drop off in strenght?

310

Marc

Welcome back bro! I’m happy you had a good time, I hope your test levels are back up after all the drinking induced estrogen! :slight_smile: lol

Why don’t you do a deadlift and arms based specialization program. Hell with the calorie expenditure of deadlifts you might lose that 15lbs of fat! :slight_smile:

You could do lots of single leg deads, traditional speed day and then heavy rack pulls maybe twice in 10 days. The rest of training could hit arms and chest. Obviously some rotator stuff thrown in. Not that you need my advice, just throwing it out there.

One of my EDT sessions has close grip benches superset with external rotations, wow does it destroy my shoulders!

311

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Here’s one negative thing about the Poliquin recommendation.
I would watch the simple carbs during the 5-day post workout period if you are over 35 (like me). Some of the poundage I gained went to lean muscle, some also went to my abdomen.

Hell, I didn’t even eat the ice-cream he suggested, but I ate a lot of Whole Wheat bread and continued drinking the Surge (even though I wasn’t working out). I think the advice about eating a lot of extra calories applies to 20 year olds with fast metabolisms.

[/quote]

I agree, but I think he mentioned that you eat those carbs only IF you were NOT gaining weight. But that aside, how are you feeling? Do you feel stronger? Are you?

Personally I had a couple of more days were I felt quite down afterwards. The rest and food did make me feel great physically but mentally it took longer for me to recuperate.

Are you still on the Oly program?

Good luck,

Marc

312

[quote]YoungGunner wrote:
Entheogens, did you ever get anything like the 20% drop off in strenght?[/quote]

ah yeah, forgot to ask this too, did you?
I had a huge drop towards the 17th day…
Could barely lift anything anymore.

313

[quote]StandTall wrote:
Marc

Welcome back bro! I’m happy you had a good time, I hope your test levels are back up after all the drinking induced estrogen! :slight_smile: lol

Why don’t you do a deadlift and arms based specialization program. Hell with the calorie expenditure of deadlifts you might lose that 15lbs of fat! :slight_smile:

You could do lots of single leg deads, traditional speed day and then heavy rack pulls maybe twice in 10 days. The rest of training could hit arms and chest. Obviously some rotator stuff thrown in. Not that you need my advice, just throwing it out there.

One of my EDT sessions has close grip benches superset with external rotations, wow does it destroy my shoulders![/quote]

Yep, they are back to normal :slight_smile: Wife wishes it had stayed low for a while longer, haha

Thanks for the advice, you were actually reading my mind. I have been tinkering with a deadlift/arm/chest program (even in a super accumulation format).

I’ll tinker a bit more and I’ll post it for you to take a look at if you do not mind.

Thanks,

Marc

314

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Gazz wrote:
I’ve just completed day 10 of 12 days on and am looking forward to the five or so rest days.

Been doing a bit of a hybrid version of the Poliquin type routine mixed up with a bit of Gironda’s stuff.

Been on two a day’s, training all bodyparts once every three days and arms have been getting 2 a days everyday.

I’ll keep you posted on the results.

All the best
Gazz

Interesting. Keep us posted!
Did you experience any muscle loss?

Marc[/quote]

Marc

No muscle loss: in fact the opposite. I have gained a little size all over but definitely on the arms and back (interestingly by training back width and thickness in seperate sessions I’ve actually trained the back 8 times in twelve days as well as the arm specialisation, 24 times in twelve days.

I’ve done back thickness and arms this morning and just finished Shoulders and arms tonight. I’ve got one more day (abs, calves & arms a.m and legs & arms P.M tomorrow. I’m very sore and really dragged through my workout tonight. Been using Girondas density technique rather than weight increases which has helped mentally.

The routine has been totally alien to enerything I had been taught and read, and although I don’t agree with everything they say, Messrs Poliquin and Waterbury obviously know their stuff and at least put out techniques that go against the grain.

I’ll take 5 days off then I think I’ll probably specialise on either lower body or trunk (I think I need to rest my shoulder joints which seem to have particularly suffered). I will probably change to training non specialised bodyparts every 5th day instaed of every 3rd day as at present, although I may train them twice in the same day eg

Day 1 am Back pm back
Day 2 am Chest pm Chest
etc

Or I may try full body everyday a la Waterbury. what would you recommend.

All the best

Gazz

315

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
YoungGunner wrote:
Entheogens, did you ever get anything like the 20% drop off in strenght?

ah yeah, forgot to ask this too, did you?
I had a huge drop towards the 17th day…
Could barely lift anything anymore.[/quote]

I never got such a big drop-off in weight. The last few days I dropped a little bit in some of the exercises (5-10 pounds) and remained static in the others.

316

Entheogens

I think the surge was going too far with it. Knowing Poloquin he was suggesting complex carbs and the ice cream thing was if you were not gaining. Which would have been the simple sugars. I’m thinking with your new found muscle you could easily cut that fat though. :slight_smile:

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Here’s one negative thing about the Poliquin recommendation.
I would watch the simple carbs during the 5-day post workout period if you are over 35 (like me). Some of the poundage I gained went to lean muscle, some also went to my abdomen.

Hell, I didn’t even eat the ice-cream he suggested, but I ate a lot of Whole Wheat bread and continued drinking the Surge (even though I wasn’t working out). I think the advice about eating a lot of extra calories applies to 20 year olds with fast metabolisms.

[/quote]

317

Ha! :slight_smile: Well, I’m glad to hear things are back to normal. Tell your wife she is in training :wink:

I’d love to look it over, I find writing my own programs the hardest program to write!

I’m looking forward to seeing that 700lb deadlift!

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Yep, they are back to normal :slight_smile: Wife wishes it had stayed low for a while longer, haha

Thanks for the advice, you were actually reading my mind. I have been tinkering with a deadlift/arm/chest program (even in a super accumulation format).

I’ll tinker a bit more and I’ll post it for you to take a look at if you do not mind.

Thanks,

Marc[/quote]

318

Today I started Day 1 of the 30 day mass plan for the second time. I did a few weeks of EDT and I’ve been dieting. I’m going to bump the calories up a bit and go back to the 30 Day Mass Plan and I plan to do Incline presses at instead of floor presses a few times, in fact, that is what I did today.

I also plan to do overhead presses and pullups or lat pull downs everyday. Instead of 1 legged squats it will be stepups, I’m not strong enough to control the descent of a 1 legged squat. I’ll do the first 10 days and then rest while I travel home and go from there. The travel home is long and hard so I’ll probably rest more than the 5 days.

BTW my dieting has been crazy, I eat eggs twice in the morning and from then on out it is protein shakes. To bump my calories up I’m adding fruit to breakfast and on Fridays when they serve steak I’m adding steak and I’ll get extra steak to eat on Saturday morning.

I’m not looking for size increase obviously, but fat loss. The food here is horrible and at times we don’t even have a meat dish. Call me crazy, but I like it when my wife thinks I’m sexy, I want to go home looking good nekid! :slight_smile:

I hope that DH will pop in here and let us know how the second 10 days went for him and how much if any he grew or how much if any he got stronger.

I hope all are well, life has been busy here, training my replacement and getting all the monthly things done at work the 1st through the 10th are always tough.

319

You should not be getting stronger in the lifts during the polloquin routine.

That does NOT mean it is not going to do anything for you.

It just means, this was not the best approach for you at this time.

Especially if you don’t usually / have never done the lifts in the routine. This routine is not about getting more skill at a lift. You should be really stalled in a lift already, and training your physiology to grow, not training your CNS to get stronger.

Again, it does not mean you won’t make progress, just that it wasn’t right for you at this time.

I hope people are reading through this thread and learning something, not just blindly following routines, but really learning the principles behind them, why they work (or don’t).

To everyone who did really well, congrads!

To everyone who didn’t, try to work out why and come up with a better approach for next time.

320

I just read every single page of this thread. For everyone who finished either Poliquin’s program or Waterbury’s program, I’d appreciate if you answered the following questions:

  1. First of all, which program did you follow?

  2. What were your changes in measurments? (Size increases, weight increases, changes in BF%, etc)

  3. What were the changes in your major lifts?

  4. Did your gains sustain? In other words, if you gained mass for example, did you keep the mass? It was interesting to hear the argument of how the immediate gains right after the program could possibly be from increased blood flow, so I’m wondering if you kept your mass. And obviously, what happened to the strength gains you experienced, if any?

  5. What type of training did you go to after you completed the program?

  6. What would you do differently if you had to do it all over again?

Thanks a lot.

-dizzle