Training Till Depressed: Results

Day 11

I decided to combine the two a day workout into one three hour destruction of my body. i was getting weird looks from even everybody because i was focused and going hardcore for the full 3 hrs. Overtraining at its finest. I truly think i cant make it past Saturday. My body is starting to run out of endorphins…lol.

Squats
295x6;6;6;6;6;6;6;6;6;6

Ham Curls
230x6;6;6;6;6;6;6;6;6;6

lean Away Chins
35 x6;5;4;4 BW-5;5;5;5;5;5
i just couldnt go anymore with the weights while keeping good form.

Seated Calf Raises
315 x 3;3;3;3;3;3;3;3;3;3;

Reverse Curls
105 x 3;3;3;3;2
this was so hilarious because i had this dude next to me curling like 85. I put the two 45 on both sides of the Ez bar and he gave me that “you are crazy …u cant do that” look…then i reversed it and hes facial expression was priceless…lol.

Dips
70- 5;5;5;5;5;5;5;5;5;5
i keep decreasing the weight every workout…my triceps are done.

Donkey calf raises
90x8;8;8;8;8;8
brutal

Dumbell back Rows
80-6 75-6;6;6;6
i had to decrease the weight…my shoulders felt weird.

Dumbell Press
45- 6;6;6;6;6;
i went from 60 dumbells to 45…shakes head

[quote]skinnymuscles wrote:
Thanks so much for your help Mark. You are correct, I was hoping for a longer term high frequency routine for my bulk. But see, the reason I have such high volume is because I am currently already doing over 60 sets each day in a single session… so I am trying to keep that (or increase on it) because I feel like my body has ALREADY adapted to it and its not difficult enough. for example, tuesday I did 50 sets for my back alone (followed by hamstrings and biceps). Yes, 50 sets just for back. I trained heavy and hard- reps never went over 10 and each set was almost till failure. So I feel like my body is in a state where I really need to push the limits.

So I’m kind of stuck I guess because I have been doing high volume and high intensity so long… there is no other way for me to progress?
So which of these routines do you feel would be best for me, and what are your opinions on the exercise selections/etc? Still think I should change the sets/rep scheme around?
[/quote]

You know, that’s a very interesting situation and to be honest, I think out of my league however, have you read Coach Thib’s new article?

It might just very well be that you need to employ some tactics to 'learn’how to feel your muscles better.

I have a similar situation with my triceps as you seem to have everywhere. I am strong with them but do not really 'feel’them. Also, for my size I am not strong enough in them AND I can do 35 sets, like you almost each set close to failure, and merely have to stop because I have to go home!

The only solution has been really heavy weights, moved really fast (Waterbury influence of course and Thib concers) AND pre-exhaust, post exhaust, double-supersets (you do extensions, dips and then extensions again for example) or giant sets (as per Thibs article).

When I return home I will train them according to Waterbury’s principles and Thibs’ as to increase my mind muscle link with them. I truly believe that that’s what’s keeping them from being 19-20 inches.

I really think, based in all your posts I have read, that you need to first train in the 3-5 rep zone and learn to attack the fibres that I think you are NOT getting now. It will be uncomfortable but try it for three weeks and follow that then with a program based on thib’s latest article for three weeks.

I bet you will improve dramatically. And you can still train 5-6 times per week as you want to.

Also, take a look at Jimmy Smits article in which he proposes combining upper/lower body training and bodypart split training. That might be perfect for you. Train hard and HEAVY on Mon/Tue, take wed off and then blast your bodyparts on Thu, Fri and Sat with Thib’s tips.

Think about it, OK?

Good luck,

'Marc

[quote]entheogens wrote:
StandTall wrote:
That is it, you’ve hit bottom, crying over a muskrat you have high estrogen levels… :slight_smile:

Stand tall, you are too young to know the musical duo “The Captain and Tenille”, arguably the worst musicians EVER. They made a song in the late 70s called, “Muskrat Love”. Now if the Beatles wrote “Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Heart Band” completely inspired by LSD, “Muskrat Love” must have been entirely inspired by estrogen. The dream must have been alluding to that song.

[/quote]

Now you are dating me…I know Captain and Tenille very well.
Sweer Lord…

[quote]german-guy wrote:
Have gained almost 8 pounds with minimal fatgain. Armcircumference increased by 0.3 inch (which is very good for my arms). But I’ve got 4 more rest days, so there’s a chance, that those numers will go up even further.

greets

ps: I already look forward going to the gym again. I’m excited cause of the great results. 4 (rest) days to go.[/quote]

You must be done with the rest now, how are you doing? Large and in charge?

marc

[quote]Dsmoove wrote:
Day 10
i feel like shit…its horrible. its like i want to sleep all day. I also felt like choking my supervisor today.she has always been annoying and i never cared but today i was just on the edge. I also gained 8 pounds so far. I could definitely see me crying if i watch a movie like the pianist. [/quote]

Well, I watched that movie and cried anyway :slight_smile:

Awesome progress! Glad you didn’t choke the supervisor.

ready to eat everything in sight and rest?

Good luck,

marc

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Second rest day. I am findiing eating all of this food a bigger chore than the actual weightlifting. I keep a constant food supply at my desk and am pretty much eating all the time. I havent been keeping track of the calories though.

Funny thing. I didn’t feel that sore DURING the process but am now feeling some aches and pains here and there. My legs are sore and feel a twinge of pain in one of my hips. Maybe it’s growing pains :slight_smile:

Am hesistant to double dose the Alpha Male T-booster since bottle gives warning not to exceed 6 pills a day. I am taking the max 6 though, three in AM and another three around 1PM.[/quote]

I had that too. The pain got a bit worse a few days into the rest and lasted somewhat and then slowly dissapated over the next few days. Still had some minor pain when I started again even. A few exercises i could not do for the first few days…but i felt much better quite soon.

Good luck with that.

Marc

[quote]Dsmoove wrote:
Day 11

shakes head*

[/quote]

Those were some good stats my friend. Hope you are doing well and will enjoy the rest and feeding frenzy.

Keep us posted on the ‘growth’. I am seriously considering doing one final mass month when I come home and all of your results are going to determine what I will do:).

Marc

Standtall,

thanks for those posts, by the way!

Hope you are doing well!

marc

P.S. Where in Europe are you? I am currently in the Netherlands…

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
german-guy wrote:
Have gained almost 8 pounds with minimal fatgain. Armcircumference increased by 0.3 inch (which is very good for my arms). But I’ve got 4 more rest days, so there’s a chance, that those numers will go up even further.

greets

ps: I already look forward going to the gym again. I’m excited cause of the great results. 4 (rest) days to go.

You must be done with the rest now, how are you doing? Large and in charge?

marc[/quote]

Well, I got ill on Day 2 of the restperiod (couldnt resist to go out with friends). Therefore, Couldn’t eat that much and lost 1 oder 2 pounds (which should be only food that out of my system and not “mass” ). Today should have been the first day of training, but I’ll pause today and tomorrow and hit the weights again on Sunday.

Looking forward to train again. I’m kind of bored :expressionless:

greets

Thanks so much for your input. The thing is, I REALLY want to train twice a day. I have so much free time right now and think it will help keep my gains lean, plus I just love going to the gym! I came up with a new, more reasonable plan, and I wanted to get your input…

Actually, I am thinking about doing two different plans. This is the first:

Workout 1-
A1. Back Squat 6 X 5
A2. Flat Bench, 6 X 5
B.1. V-Bar pulldown, 6 X 5
B.2 Seated Military Press, 6 X 5
C.1 Leg Press, 6 X 5
C.2 Bentover Row, 6 X 5
D.1 Barbell rope Curls, 5 X 6
D.2 Tricep Rope Extensions, 5 X 6

Workout 2-
A1 Front Squat- 3 X 10
A2 Lat Pulldown- 3 X 10
B1 Hack Squat- 3 X 10
B2 Decline Bench Press 3 X 10
C1 One Arm Row 3 X 10
C2 Lateral Raises 3 X 10
D1 Incline Hammer Curls 3 x 10
D2 Dips 3 X 10

Workout 3-
5 X 6
A1 Deadlift
A2- Bicep Curls
B1- Power Clean and Press
B2- Incline Bench Press
C1 Seated Row
C2- Close Grip Bench Press
D1- Chinups
D2- Leg Curls

Workout 4-
3 X 10
A1 SLD
A2 Upright Row
B1 Flat Bench Press
B2 V-Bar Pulldown
C1 T-bar Row
C2 Bicep Incline Curls
D1 Lunges
D2 Tricep pushdowns

Repeat

So:
Mon- AM- workout 1
PM workout 2

Tues- AM- workout 3
PM workout 4

Wed- Sprints, ARMS EDT

Thurs- AM- Workout 1
PM- Workout 2

Fri- AM-workout 3
PM- workout 4

Sat- Sprints, ARMS EDT

Sun- off

OR

Mon- Lower HEAVY
Tues- Upper HEAVY
Wed- Arms EDT, sprints
Thurs- workout 1 am
workout 2 pm
Fri- Workout 3 am
workout 4 pm
Sat- sprints, Arms EDT, abs
sun- off

What do you think?

Day 4 of the post-workout period.

Unlike, german guy I dont miss the gym at all and am wondering if, in two days time, I will be looking forward to working out. Still feeling kind of burned-out.

My legs feel sore at certain times of the day. They got targeted a lot in my training sessions.

My sleep is not very restful. Wonder if it might be due to the Alpha Male (even though I am taking it rather early in the day). I like to get up in the morning and do 20-30 minutes of meditation. Instead when I wake up, I just hit the snooze button and lay in bed until the last moment.

Unlike previously stated, I WILL NOT be
immediately jumping in to another Super Accumulation Cycle. Part of the reason is because I am a wuss :slight_smile: Another reason is that I have found a coach to teach me the Olympic lifts and so will be concentrating on that over the next few months.

Still eating mass quantities of food. Mostly solid food, but I also am drinking several shakes of Surge throughout the day. Other than that, pretty clean. About the most “unclean” thing I eat regularly is raw honey on whole wheat bread. Going to a russian deli at lunch and might eat a chocolate dessert.

[quote]skinnymuscles wrote:
Thanks so much for your input. The thing is, I REALLY want to train twice a day. I have so much free time right now and think it will help keep my gains lean, plus I just love going to the gym! Actually, I am thinking about doing two different plans.

Mon- Lower HEAVY
Tues- Upper HEAVY
Wed- Arms EDT, sprints
Thurs- workout 1 am
workout 2 pm
Fri- Workout 3 am
workout 4 pm
Sat- sprints, Arms EDT, abs
sun- off

What do you think?
[/quote]

You know what, since you really want to do it, you are just going to have to get the experience then. So, even though I truly think it is too much, if I have to choose then I like option 2 the best.

For this to work I really think you need to excell at sticking to a good diet with lots of protein and fat and carbs (cycled or not). Your peri-workout strategy must be stellar.

Also, you must improve your performance each and every week. You must get stronger either through more weight, more reps or more sets.
You cannot go to the gym for going’s sake only, you must seek to increase your performance each and every time.

Add reps first, then sets, then weight.
For example:
5x4, 5x5, 5x6, 6x6, add 5% 5x5, 5x6, 6x6 add 5% etc

If you cannot add reps, sets or weight 2 times in a row, the program has lost it’s value and you either need to take a rest or change. Also, if you are not gaining at least 1lbs of lean tissue a week this is not right either, OK? But performance first!! You must improve!

Good luck,

Marc

entheogens,

Great stuff. I certainly would not consider you a wuss after giving this an honest shot!
your gains might help you with the Olympic lIfting too!

The Alpha Male might indeed make you more restless. it takes a while to get used to.

Good luck, I am curious to know what it will be like after 5-6 days for you.

Marc

Thanks Mark for the feedback! How do the workouts look to you? And are my starting reps/sets ok? How about the exercise selections/pairings? Any recommendations in any of those areas?

Also, can you give me some pointers/tips regarding diet. I never told you my weight, for fear that you would dismiss me as a weakling, but I am female, only 100 pounds. I am strong as hell though and obviously can handle quite a lot in the weight room and am tough as nails. I really want to pack on 10-15 pounds of lean mass and compete one day. What sort of ratios should I consume? What do you recommend pre/post workout?

I don’t do well on high carbs/starches… I love oatmeal to death and eat it every morning but I find it bloats me and makes me extremely tired. Any recommendations? What do you recommend I take postworkout? And if I chose to cycle cals/carbs, how should I go about this? What days would be best for high carbs, and which for low carbs? I would love some help with my diet, because I know that is crucial with my training regime and goals!

My pleasure.

I’m actually in Afghanistan. The Army, whom I work for as a civilian, considers us deployed out of Europe. I wish I could jump over and see you. I’ll be traveling through Amsterdam August 23 or 24. I have a 6 hour lay over, anything I can do while I’m there?

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Standtall,

thanks for those posts, by the way!

Hope you are doing well!

marc

P.S. Where in Europe are you? I am currently in the Netherlands…[/quote]

[quote]skinnymuscles wrote:
Thanks Mark for the feedback! How do the workouts look to you? And are my starting reps/sets ok? How about the exercise selections/pairings? Any recommendations in any of those areas?

Also, can you give me some pointers/tips regarding diet. I never told you my weight, for fear that you would dismiss me as a weakling, but I am female, only 100 pounds. I am strong as hell though and obviously can handle quite a lot in the weight room and am tough as nails. I really want to pack on 10-15 pounds of lean mass and compete one day. What sort of ratios should I consume? What do you recommend pre/post workout?

I don’t do well on high carbs/starches… I love oatmeal to death and eat it every morning but I find it bloats me and makes me extremely tired. Any recommendations? What do you recommend I take postworkout? And if I chose to cycle cals/carbs, how should I go about this? What days would be best for high carbs, and which for low carbs? I would love some help with my diet, because I know that is crucial with my training regime and goals![/quote]

Ha, knock me over with a feather.
I seriously thought you were male (you reminded me so much of myself when I was younger and 116lbs at 6 feet :))

All that work and you are a lady? Wow. Let me regroup for a moment.

I do like the workouts mind you, but again, it is a lot.

Basically I like to start at 24 reps per exercise and work up to 36 reps with my heavy sessions and I like to work from 36 reps to 48 reps with my medium sessions. Ligt sessions are usually 48-100 reps.

So for me the progress is:
8x3 to 9x3 to 10x3 to 8x4 to 9x4 then I add weight and start over (sometimes i will do 10x4 to 9x5 to 10x5 but that’s when i sense adding weight will lead to worse exercise form)

Or:
3x12 to 4x10 to 4x11 to 4x12 to 5x10 add weight and repeat sequence

Or:
2x24 to 2x26 etc till I can do 1 set of 100 reps, add weight and repeat sequence.

Do you see what I mean? I have room to progress by adding reps, then sets and then weight.

When you start out with 6x5 for example you are already at 30 reps. The effective range according to Chad (and I have noticed many similarities) is 24-36 reps with a heavier weight.
in your case you could do 6x6 and then you would have to add weight already.

My fear is that it’s too quickly. And doing: 6x5, 6x6, 7x5, 7x6, 8x5, 8x6 is an option but the volume get’s out there.

From your posts I am sensing that you need to work with heavier weights. You seem hesitant to do so due to the fact you do not have a partner (hope I remembered this well) but that’s for example where unilateral exercises are so darn effective.

A one arm floor press, or dumbell row, or one arm barbell row even, you can do step ups, bulgarian split squat, luggage deadlift, one arm barbell presses, one arm barbell curls, one legged romanian deadlifts with barbell or dumbell. Etc etc. these exercises are very difficult to perform and will cause a unique tension effect on the muscles.

My barbell curl is 150lbs but my one arm barbell curls i do with 80lbs at the very most causing more stress on one muscle but less on the whole body!

I like your program and exercises choices but I also would like you to consider going heavier and doing that by yourself you would be best served choosing unilateral exercises.

You can train very heavy and never be in danger and you do not need a partner at all. Chad’s latest program was full of exercises that can be done heavy, at home and alone.

I hope Standtall and the other will glance over your posts again because I am running a bit short on time, and chime in because I really think that yes, your program and exercises choices can be done (although again it is an enormous amount of work) but I think that you would reach your goals by training heavier.

In regards to diet:
I have experimented with Chad’s 33/33/33 and feel great on it and I simply do all my meals that way, including the one before training and before bed. During training and right after it is just protein and carbs.

I have also had great success with a ‘sort off’ anabolic diet (lots of veggies the whole day and three pieces of fruit a day spread out).

For mass I choose to eat 15 calories per lbs and work up to 20 calories per lbs. In your case at 100lbs that’s where i would start, seriously. I would not start you on 1500 calories with the amount of work you are going to do.

I would have an enormous amount of calories during and after my sessions and a heavy meal before bed (I take cottage cheese with olive oil and several pieces of fruit and honey for eaxample). If you can afford Surge during and right after the session, great if not, make your own version and get Biotests big jug and mix it.

I have done chocolate milk as well and I have made my own by putting Biotests powder, yoghurt, water and honey in a blender and take that with me.

33/33/33 works really well for me and I do 45 grams protein, 45 grams carbs and 15 grams (1 tablespoon) of fat, 6-10 times per day.

If oatmeal makes you tired you have an extremely fast metabolism and I then cannot stress enough for you to increase your protein and fat at each meal! try 33/33/33 and if that doesn’t work try 40/20(carbs)/40 while steadily increasing calories.

Since you love oatmeal, eat a few egg whites with it to increase the amount of protein so it matches the carbs and add some cream to the water or milk you are using (yummie and it will slow the digestion process).

best is steak and eggs though but hey :slight_smile:

Gotta run…

Good luck. Hope I am not frustrating you!

marc

[quote]StandTall wrote:
My pleasure.

I’m actually in Afghanistan. The Army, whom I work for as a civilian, considers us deployed out of Europe. I wish I could jump over and see you. I’ll be traveling through Amsterdam August 23 or 24. I have a 6 hour lay over, anything I can do while I’m there?

IamMarqaos wrote:
P.S. Where in Europe are you? I am currently in the Netherlands…

[/quote]

Ah, too bad you are that far away. I thought perhaps Germany…

The whole of Amsterdam is great to visit (perhaps I am a bit biased:)) but if you only have 6 hours and lets say you arrive at the train station then I truly believe it is best just to walk around and soak up the atmosphere.

You could take a canal trip for an hour (nice if you have never been there) and you can follow that up with a nice walk towards the Dam and if you wish a stroll along the red light district (the weirdness of it you have to experience once, you know). Even as a Dutch man it blows me away that we had this in our country, as well as the legal places to buy pot.

I do not smoke (never have) but is interesting to walk into the Bulldog and see that they have a MENU with dozens of items to choose from.

there are of course several museums (including the porn museum of course…I think something is troubling the Dutch…don’t you?:)) but you would have to plan ahead since you are only going to be there 6 hours.

Again, I think with the 6 hour time frame it is best to just stroll and enjoy the beauty, perhaps a canal trip, have a beer outside watching thousands of people walk by from all over the world.

good times.

too bad I am back in the states then. Would have met you there and the first heiniken would have been on me :slight_smile:

Marc

Ah Marc you are speaking my language brother. I wish you would be there too! :slight_smile:

What you describe is normally how I experience a new place. People think I’m crazy, but I walk all over and just start talking to people. I flew into Amsterdam last year but stayed in they airport because of a shorter layover. Is the airport close to the city then and 6 hours is enough to go and do something? That is the main thing!

If so I’ll certainly be walking, riding a boat and drinking a beer. :slight_smile: I have always enjoyed talking to Dutch people very forward and upfront, I like that. Very open minded too, but if you step out of line they can help you find your place. :slight_smile:

[quote]StandTall wrote:
Ah Marc you are speaking my language brother. I wish you would be there too! :slight_smile:

What you describe is normally how I experience a new place. People think I’m crazy, but I walk all over and just start talking to people. I flew into Amsterdam last year but stayed in they airport because of a shorter layover. Is the airport close to the city then and 6 hours is enough to go and do something? That is the main thing!

If so I’ll certainly be walking, riding a boat and drinking a beer. :slight_smile: I have always enjoyed talking to Dutch people very forward and upfront, I like that. Very open minded too, but if you step out of line they can help you find your place. :slight_smile: [/quote]

haha, that’s true! Heck they even do that to Dutch people who’ve gone away for a while :slight_smile:

My people are indeed forward and upfront, very patriotic too, perhaps even more so then Americans :slight_smile:

Every time I return home I have conversations about why in God’s name I would want to live anywhere else and what possibly could be wrong with me :slight_smile: and they are serious too, it’s not meant in good fun.
I love that though, good times. It usually happens over a good three course dinner with lots of beer added.

In regards to your lay over:

The airport has a train station in it. If I remember correctly it is less then 20 minutes to Amsterdam Central so you should have at least 4 1/2 hours to enjoy a walk and a beer…or two…or three :slight_smile:

be well,

marc

Hi. I just wanted to pop back into this thread. I had finished the WB program and that had that awesome backpacking trip. Now I’ve been working with StandTall to make a program to try to up my strength and really put on some muscle. I’m doing a 4 on 3 off schedule.

The idea is to be like a mini cycle of the WB plan - push the muscles hard a few days in a row, then take off. All AM sessions. I don’t like PM sessions, but I feel like I should be doing them since it’s summer and it’s light out so late.

I also had a great week this week in that I increased my lifts a lot on the 4th day! I really wanted to go back into the gym for a 5th day. I just didn’t feel dead after the 4th day. I just really have a hard time taing time off. And I’ve NEVER scheduled myself 3 days in a row out of the gym!! It’s so long. The idea is maybe changing up my program so there is a period of full recovery will help in the gains?

In either case I’m keeping myself a little more sane on my days off by trying to be active - yesterday I went rock climbing (wow - use some weird muslces in that!! It was fun!!!) And today I will hike. Sunday will be off and a lot of work. :frowning: I have too much work this summer. Then Monday I can hit it hard again. It is really hard for me coming back to the gym after 3 days usually. I think I will use Spike to get my mind back in the game.

My workouts are way less volume than skinnymuscles. I just do 1 heavy lift (always for lower body) in 6 by 4 or something like that (24 reps) and then 3-4 superset pairings also in the 24 rep range but varying reps. I do 3x8, then 2x12, then 4x6. Do you think that’s enough volume?

I am trying to focus on lifting heavier instead of just adding volume the way I always do. I’m also using longer rest periods, although often I just can’t stand it and use only about 30 sec.

I’m learning a lot though and I hope through this process I’ll better learn how to make my body perform the way I want it to. I’m also just fighting the fat fears - I’ve decided to speed up the gain a bit. I increased cals about 200 more. It’s scary. I gained about 4 lbs in the last 3 months. Do you think I can cleanly speed up this gain?? What are your experiences Marc in how fast you can cleanly gain?

Anyway, thanks for all the support on this thread. It’s awesome!