[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Hey all,
Out of country till 22nd.
Limited internet available.
Will check in any chance I get!
Marc[/quote]
Have a great trip! Dont forget us when you get back. If I am still alive, I’ll be posting here )
Thanks again for all of your valuable observations.
Day 11 - The adjective that comes to mind is “weary”. That is how I feel. A little sore, but not too much. Hey, it’s day 11 and I can see the finish line.
It occurs to me that perhaps I am not as “wasted” as the luge competitors that Poliquin mentions because my weight workouts were not accompanied by energy training (i.e. sprinting or the like).
Certainly in addition to weightlifting the luge people must have been doing other stuff related to their sport (though I have a hard time seeing how riding a fancy sled down a track could be physically taxing. Hell, curling looks more demanding than that. Any luge heads want to instruct me on this?).
I have yet to go on a murderous rampage (I kind of regret that seeing as I dont like a number of my co-workers); nor have I felt the need to wolf down a box of chocolates while tearily watching a soap opera. However, I did dream last night that I killed a muskrat and then cried over having done so.
Does that count as an emotional paroxysm stemminig from excess training?
This is one of the best posts of all time! 
[quote]entheogens wrote:
Day 11 - The adjective that comes to mind is “weary”. That is how I feel. A little sore, but not too much. Hey, it’s day 11 and I can see the finish line.
That is sort of how I felt. I think I was just way tired of the same stuff over and over again.
It occurs to me that perhaps I am not as “wasted” as the luge competitors that Poliquin mentions because my weight workouts were not accompanied by energy training (i.e. sprinting or the like).
Certainly in addition to weightlifting the luge people must have been doing other stuff related to their sport (though I have a hard time seeing how riding a fancy sled down a track could be physically taxing. Hell, curling looks more demanding than that. Any luge heads want to instruct me on this?).
The thing is the sprint at the beginning, other than that, I don’t know. I think the sprint is the key though. The guy who steers is probably the key, I’m sure they lean a lot.
I have yet to go on a murderous rampage (I kind of regret that seeing as I dont like a number of my co-workers);
Classic line above, I love it.
nor have I felt the need to wolf down a box of chocolates while tearily watching a soap opera. However, I did dream last night that I killed a muskrat and then cried over having done so.
That is it, you’ve hit bottom, crying over a muskrat you have high estrogen levels…
Does that count as an emotional paroxysm stemminig from excess training?[/quote]
Have a great time brother.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Hey all,
Out of country till 22nd.
Limited internet available.
Will check in any chance I get!
Day 12- Today the fatigue REALLY hit. To say that I stumbled through the morning workout would be an understatement. Had to dramatically reduce the weights and missed a couple of power clean attempts,which I suspect is due to nerves being shot. After pulling the bar, found it difficult to explode at right time. I looked like a spastic having a premature ejaculation. Not pretty.
More than once the thought arose that I should abandon such manly pursuits in favor of a more genteel and mannerly sport. Croquet and bocce come to mind
Maybe the mind/body knowing that the cycle is almost at an end feels like it can coast through the rest. Have to push myself through the remaining workouts.
[quote]StandTall wrote:
That is it, you’ve hit bottom, crying over a muskrat you have high estrogen levels…
[/quote]
Stand tall, you are too young to know the musical duo “The Captain and Tenille”, arguably the worst musicians EVER. They made a song in the late 70s called, “Muskrat Love”. Now if the Beatles wrote “Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Heart Band” completely inspired by LSD, “Muskrat Love” must have been entirely inspired by estrogen. The dream must have been alluding to that song.
All this to say that you are right. I am rolling on “E”. Not Ecstacy but Estrogen. In that case, better avoid doing the dirty with my significant other. Got a feeling my noodle would NOT be AL DENTE, if you know what I mean.
Have gained almost 8 pounds with minimal fatgain. Armcircumference increased by 0.3 inch (which is very good for my arms). But I’ve got 4 more rest days, so there’s a chance, that those numers will go up even further.
greets
ps: I already look forward going to the gym again. I’m excited cause of the great results. 4 (rest) days to go.
That is some great progress! Good job. Keep eating and working hard.
[quote]german-guy wrote:
Have gained almost 8 pounds with minimal fatgain. Armcircumference increased by 0.3 inch (which is very good for my arms). But I’ve got 4 more rest days, so there’s a chance, that those numers will go up even further.
greets
ps: I already look forward going to the gym again. I’m excited cause of the great results. 4 (rest) days to go.[/quote]
I am concerned by the apparent lack of understanding of how the body works and how it adapts to exercise.
Some people are saying some pretty silly things in this thread.
I hope you all make sure to follow the recovery period procedures properly and track your progress especially measurements over time.
For people who are finding it not that bad, not that hard, strength going up, not too tired - that is why this program is for advanced level athletes. If you are not advanced then you either don’t have the strength to tax your recovery enough for it to be a problem (in which case the program is overkill and a waste of time), or your recovery ability is too low to last a few days.
If you are advanced, it is a devastating routine.
If you are getting ONLY 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch increases in your measurements - 100% of which is increased bloodflow, until you take time off from training - then that is a TINY increase and shows you don’t even have much of a response. You should be adding nearly an inch to your small muscles like biceps and over an inch to large muscles groups like thighs. If you are not getting that much increased bloodflow then you are goofing off or you are so incredibly not ready for this kind of training it is astounding.
I am not saying you won’t get good results from it if you are a beginner, but for the amount of time in the gym, you probably could have had better results from far less effort.
Note that I am generalising all of this, not aimed at any specific poster. But it is disturbing some of the things people are saying shows they have no understanding of how the body works.
And also signs of looking for the perfect quick fix solution workout to pack on mass.
My guess is most people doing this would be better doing 20 rep squats 3x a week for 2 weeks then going on holiday to the beach for a week and eating tonnes of burgers.
Completed Workout #18. End of cycle. Hooray…free at last.
As for the comment that I dont know anything about how the body works, etc. I will admit that my background is not in exercise physiology or the Life Sciences. However, as I mentioned already, I have posted a couple of PRs (I am not a beginner by the way) so even if I have no more gains at the end of the recovery period, the experiment will have been succesful.
And even if that were not true, so what? It’s two weeks of my life. You have to try different things in life and some will work for you and others won’t. But if you dont try, you will never know. Right!?
Now it’s time to begin the recovery period and that means eating a boatload of food. I’ve gotten off to a good start Will keep it pretty clean. My in-between meal snacks will consist of either surge and fruit or canned salmon and whole-wheat bread. Dont plan on eating too much in the way of sweets but Wednesday I go to a fav restaurant of mine and wont pass on the chocolate souffle’
Dont have the glutamine that Poliquin recommends. Will go at lunch time to purchase that. Have the Alpha Male and am wondering whether it would be best to accompany that with DIM or Resveratrol?
no no no don’t get me wrong, I think you are going about it right.
I am not criticising anyone I am just surprised by some of the comments.
This is all basic stuff people should know, already.
Well it actually seems that the opposite of what you say is true. The smaller inexperienced folks are devestated and making huge jumps and the bigger more advanced are not…I’m sure you know a lot as evidenced by you telling us we are silly but…
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
I am concerned by the apparent lack of understanding of how the body works and how it adapts to exercise.
Some people are saying some pretty silly things in this thread.
[/quote]
Hmmm. That wasn’t criticising? You seem to feel you know more than anyone posting and that you know how each and every person will react physically. Thank you for your input, I wish I was as wise as you.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
no no no don’t get me wrong, I think you are going about it right.
I am not criticising anyone I am just surprised by some of the comments.
This is all basic stuff people should know, already.
[/quote]
[quote]StandTall wrote:
Well it actually seems that the opposite of what you say is true. The smaller inexperienced folks are devestated and making huge jumps and the bigger more advanced are not…I’m sure you know a lot as evidenced by you telling us we are silly but…
[/quote]
Smaller, beginner, inexperienced folk will make gains WHATEVER THEY DO. Any routine. Anything. Unless they really blow out their recovery ability, which is not likely if they are really weak, or if they are quite fit.
People who are advanced already struggle to make any gains, every 5lbs added to the bar is a big deal, every 1/4 inch on their arms is a multi-month battle.
People who are beginners are wasting their time doing this not because they are not going to make gains - but they could have made just as good gains doing far, far less. And probably, much better gains.
The fact that you - or anyone else- hasn’t already done a similar workout like this, several times, over the past 5-20 years, to me says you are a beginner.
The fact that people are looking at these approaches and thinking that this is something they never heard of before, tells me that they really haven’t been around very long.
I don’t know how any specific person is going to respond to this type of cycle. But I know generally what sort of response a person will get depending on their level of training. I don’t think it is efficient for beginners because if you compare doing 9 workouts in 2 weeks with one week off compared to doing those 9 workouts over 3 weeks, the beginner will make better results for spreading the effort out over time than compressing it. Why? Because a beginner should be able to recover in 2-3 days, they don’t need an entire week of unloading, they cannot make use of it to do anything except small adaption and then detraining for a couple of days.
To put it another way, if you’re not depressed during the workout, wait until the end of your layoff period, then you’ll be depressed when your swelling “muscle size” goes down.
None of this applies to advanced trainees like the original poster, IamMarqaos, who is a perfect candidate for this kind of training.
Keep track of your progress.
I am training now for 2.5 years. I gained 50 pounds over that timespan (with same BF, but almost 40 pounds in the first half year). Now, I wouldn’t consider myself advanced, because I am a relatively weak mofo (compared to those numbers you all would consider advanced). Checked against people in my gym, in the real world, I am ahead of the most guys I see at the gym (who are very skinny).
BUT I have struggled for the last 1.5 years now to increase my numbers. But that didn’t happen, at least very, very slowly. I tried everything you can think of to boost my progress, ate like crazy (and I’m certainly not one of those guys who don’t know how much they have to eat) and trained like crazy.
I did high volume, low volume, low rep, highrep, fullbody, splits and so on…(btw I even tried “squats and milk”) all with passion and the most effort I could and can afford.
Actually, this made me very angry because I gave everything I had and that led to almost no results. Then this article came up, and I thought “this could be what I need to grow again”. I’m trying it. And like you probably read in the last posts, it works like hell for me.
Bottom line: I don’t give a sh** if this program is for me or not. I’m getting results, great restults. Restults like in the earliest beginner stage.
Ps: Perhaps this post was a little too offensive, I’m sorry for that. But I felt really pissed by your post magarhe.
Did you not read that IaMarq’s arms did not grow until he did a specific HF arm program? Do you know anything aboud Disc Hoss and the fact that he has been following HF programs for years and the dude has a four pack and 20 inch arms? Do you know anything about me? No you have no clue yet you think you know everything, you are a pompus prick in my opinion.
My muscles grew to the size they were going to stay at some point during the training and they stayed that size after the first five days and now I’m four days into rest and the amount they grew during the training has stayed. I’ve been training since I was about 10 years old.
I didn’t know WTF I was doing but I was training. I have been classified as an advanced intermediate, which puts me just below advanced. This by someone far more qualified than me. I have used high frequency training before and being that I was deadlifting or squatting and benching, pullups and heavy curls everyday it was much different than the unilateral work that is done on this program.
No kidding that people who are advanced struggle to put muscle on or weight on the bar, that is why your comments make no sense about people who didn’t put an inch on their arms must be beginners. WTF?
You can control depression through thought. You know why? Every thought produces a chemical and depression is chemical.
FYI when my joints are feeling good, I need to take a back off every three weeks or I’ll likely get injured. Does that mean I’m a beginner or advanced? Or maybe I’m just broke dick?
BTW, how advanced are you? What qualifies you to be an arrogant ass? Why would someone with so much knowledge tell people that they were silly and don’t know the basics? If you truly know what you say you know then you would not feel the need to make other people feel inadequate.
And if you feel the need to say those things and you do know what you say you know then you will never be able to put that knowledge to use for the help of others. It doesn’t matter what you intend to say, it matters what your audience hears. I truely don’t care what you think of me, but I have this protective quality about me when someone attacks a group of people.
These people are trying to improve and the advice given by IamMarq was great, the input by DH was great, you on the other hand need to learn how to state what you want to say in a way that people can swallow. If you are not interested in that then you are simply not around to help but to tear down and why? Does it make your penis grow? Do you get a surge of testosterone and turn green? Advanced communicators are not jerks.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
StandTall wrote:
Well it actually seems that the opposite of what you say is true. The smaller inexperienced folks are devestated and making huge jumps and the bigger more advanced are not…I’m sure you know a lot as evidenced by you telling us we are silly but…
Smaller, beginner, inexperienced folk will make gains WHATEVER THEY DO. Any routine. Anything. Unless they really blow out their recovery ability, which is not likely if they are really weak, or if they are quite fit.
People who are advanced already struggle to make any gains, every 5lbs added to the bar is a big deal, every 1/4 inch on their arms is a multi-month battle.
People who are beginners are wasting their time doing this not because they are not going to make gains - but they could have made just as good gains doing far, far less. And probably, much better gains.
The fact that you - or anyone else- hasn’t already done a similar workout like this, several times, over the past 5-20 years, to me says you are a beginner.
The fact that people are looking at these approaches and thinking that this is something they never heard of before, tells me that they really haven’t been around very long.
I don’t know how any specific person is going to respond to this type of cycle. But I know generally what sort of response a person will get depending on their level of training. I don’t think it is efficient for beginners because if you compare doing 9 workouts in 2 weeks with one week off compared to doing those 9 workouts over 3 weeks, the beginner will make better results for spreading the effort out over time than compressing it. Why? Because a beginner should be able to recover in 2-3 days, they don’t need an entire week of unloading, they cannot make use of it to do anything except small adaption and then detraining for a couple of days.
To put it another way, if you’re not depressed during the workout, wait until the end of your layoff period, then you’ll be depressed when your swelling “muscle size” goes down.
None of this applies to advanced trainees like the original poster, IamMarqaos, who is a perfect candidate for this kind of training.
Keep track of your progress.
[/quote]
Day 10
i feel like shit…its horrible. its like i want to sleep all day. I also felt like choking my supervisor today.she has always been annoying and i never cared but today i was just on the edge. I also gained 8 pounds so far. I could definitely see me crying if i watch a movie like the pianist.
german-guy
StandTall
WTF? You guys are arguing against me, and then describing yourselves as the kind of people who SHOULD be doing this, just as I described.
IF you have been training for a long time and having trouble gaining/making new progress then this approach is good for you.
But you should have known about this already especially if you have been around for years. These kinds of routines have popped up a hundred times in the past 25 years.
And some really stupid things have been said on this thread showing that some people have some really whacky understanding of training.
If you are making progress DURING the workout phase, instead of feeling like hell like Polloquin described, then you were NOT “perfectly” suited to this approach. It doesn’t mean it isn’t good, just that it might be 60% effective compared to 80% effective using another approach. IT DOES NOT MEAN IT WON’T WORK. Just that you are putting in a lot more effort than you needed, or you are doing it wrong.
I am not talking about being depressed that is CP being his usual bonehead self, I am talking about your energy and strength levels going up during the working phase.
It doesn’t matter if it is not perfect if it is working. What I don’t like are beginners rushing into any quick-fix approach that could result in injury or wasting time. I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE A BEGINNER. But there seem to be quite a few people around who last year were complaining they made no progress, and now, one year later, and rushing from one fad workout to the next, have made NO PROGRESS IN A YEAR.
Finally, since you guys are getting pretty snappy at me, the program must be working! ha!
[quote]Dsmoove wrote:
Day 10
i feel like shit…its horrible. its like i want to sleep all day. I also felt like choking my supervisor today.she has always been annoying and i never cared but today i was just on the edge. I also gained 8 pounds so far. I could definitely see me crying if i watch a movie like the pianist. [/quote]
Congratulations! Sounds like your doing a good job. Keep up the good work.
Second rest day. I am findiing eating all of this food a bigger chore than the actual weightlifting. I keep a constant food supply at my desk and am pretty much eating all the time. I havent been keeping track of the calories though.
Funny thing. I didn’t feel that sore DURING the process but am now feeling some aches and pains here and there. My legs are sore and feel a twinge of pain in one of my hips. Maybe it’s growing pains
Am hesistant to double dose the Alpha Male T-booster since bottle gives warning not to exceed 6 pills a day. I am taking the max 6 though, three in AM and another three around 1PM.