i will be posting stuff here as reference materials.it will be easier if its all in one place
Yes, despite the name, buckwheat isn’t wheat; it’s botanically more of a berry. Healthy stuff, no drawbacks. Quinoa is good too. I get it flaked and it’s a lot like Cream of Wheat in taste and texture. I mix Metabolic Drive into for flavoring and extra protein.
Corn should general be avoided, except in whole form or off the cob. You don’t want a lot of corn starch in food ingredient lists.
Coconut oil is best for cooking, frying etc. Olive oil is best raw over salads or hummus. Avoid most other oils: vegetable, peanut, corn etc. Sesame is okay in smaller amounts. Dr. Jonny Bowden has a nice list in his book “The 150 Healthiest Foods on Earth.” Great reference book. He has some articles in our archives too with info on why canola oil is bad news.
Yes, you do start to lose the taste for crappy foods. This is multi-layered. Part of it is psychological, habit etc, and part is physiological: actual addiction messing with your brain. Takes about a week to withdrawal physically from wheat. Milk can have the same effect because there’s a component in there designed to get the baby cow “addicted” to mother’s milk. Makes humans overeat and have cravings. Habit-wise, mentally it takes roughly 21 days to break a habit and replace it with something healthier.
http://www.T-Nation.com/...e_painful_seven
http://www.T-Nation.com/...charge_training
BiP: @domcib: The single most important rule of NC is stop BEFORE your performance declines. Stop while you’re at the top
http://www.T-Nation.com/...ural-charge.jsp
http://www.T-Nation.com/...g_point_therapy
http://thehealingproject.us/...lliam-davis-md/
http://www.T-Nation.com/...or_bodybuilders
Christian Thibaudeau: KNEE ISSUES: Dom, I had a hockey player with the exact same issue. We did basically the 3 following exercises: trap bar deadlift, box front squat, bulgarian split squat
Christian Thibaudeau: LOSING THE PUMP: A training program is NOT a list of chores to do. Sometimes doing everything can be counterproductive. The goal is to create a physiological stimulus not to do X amount of exercise. Losing the pump is the first sign of doing too much work. When that happens you should stop the session.
ee the carb guide link at the first of your log for some other carb ideas. Do you like hot cereals? Cream of buckwheat is actually better than oatmeal, health wise and taste-wise in my opinion. And you can breads made from almond flour and rice if you’re wanting something besides plain rice. Also, take a look at the “What Chis Actually Eats” thread in the HSM and recipes forum here on T-Nation. You’ll see what I eat and many have recipes.
my 29 year old daughter had 2 herniated disc surgeries last year. she still cannot work a full time job. she always liked to train, but cannot now. can anyone offer some suggestions as far as any exercises that maybe she can do without straining her back? thanks
Dr. Jonny Bowden
wed 10/17/12 lats/ biceps day 3, phase 1, strength.
wow i really felt like crap. dont believe it. anyway, i used to just deal with it. i am taking the advice of stopping the workout.
i only did part of the lat portion. do i finish the the workout tomorrow, or do i skip it completely?
THE POWER OF HEAVY DENSITY SETS: A method that constitutes a huge part of my training is called heavy-density lifting.I have many advanced variations, the basic one is doing 4 to 6 micro sets of 2-4 reps with only 15 seconds of rest. The load used is a weight I can lift roughly for 6-8 reps an my goal is to double (or a bit more) the number of reps. It is the most powerful method for growth that I have experienced. I have more advanced variations and a specific way to layer it in the program.
so it looks like eg
lets say 135 is weight for 8 reps on bench
you do
4x4 with 15 sec rest between sets = total reps of 16 which is double the 8
or 6x2 =12
6x4 = 24
cool stuff. im gonna play with this a little.
adjusted plan for intense days… squat, dead, bench, press, lats/bis(really the squat and dead days are the most intense)
the parts in parentheses are questionable.
based on what chris said in the spill, i think this is a viable plan.
Chris. what do you say?
thanks in advance.
EG.
700 indigo, 2 scoops of MAG-10(OR 3 IF OK)
730 at gym- change cloths, stretch
740 start anaconda -3.5- 4 scoops in 1.5 litres of water
warmup
745 start training session
845-900 done with training
shower, change
945-1000 at office. 2 scoops of mag10 (OR 3 IF OK)
1030 2 more scoops of mag10–(if 3 scoops on the prior is ok, i would skip this one)
1100 indigo
1140 food
rest of day is easy
Christian Thibaudeau: HEAVYD DENSITY LIFTING: HDL is a style of lifting where you perform many micro-sets of 1-5 reps with only 10-15 seconds of rest. Nornally 4-6 of those micro-sets are done in a row and it constitutes one round. The 4-4-3-3-2-2 works great for slower twitch and mixed individuals. Fast twitch people will respond better to 5-4-3-2-1 (not the 5-4-3-2-1 scheme that I often refer to, you take 10-15 sec. between micro-sets and use the same weight for all). In essence, it is one big set
Christian Thibaudeau: BEST EXERCISES: I find that to maximize muscle mass with as few exercises as possible, the bench press decline tilt, bench press incline tilt, high pull and trap bar deadlift are ideal (I like the deadstop row, but it is not on the same level as the others). I personally only add the power snatch to that on my “fun day”. But I also use the method with other exercises for people with specific needs (e.g. olympic lifters, powerlifters)
dave g big help
Join date: May 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 786
domcib- I’ll answer as best I can here:
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Ramp to max: I usually take about 7 or 8 sets I think to get to a max. First few sets will be triples and then I switch to singles so as to not accumulate much fatigue.
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clusters are done at 90% of whatever max you ramped to and then they are done as single reps done every 10 seconds or less. Depending on the lift and your fibre make up (fast vs. slow twitch dominant) you will likely get somewhere between 5 and 10 single reps in your first cluster. Do 3 separate cluster sets.
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HDL - full explanations in some recent spills. Basically, take 65-70% of the max that you ramped up to and then perform multiple micro-sets w/ about 15 seconds rest between micro sets. The set up of the HDL microsets depends on your cluster performance. If you got more than 17 total reps across your 3 cluster sets then do each HDL set as 4/4/3/3/2/2/1/1 - so do 4 reps, rest 15 secs, do 4 reps, rest 15 secs, do 3 reps…and so on. That is one set. Do 3 of these.
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Number of exercises per day- CT originally wrote about 2 exercises per day an now does only one himself. Keep in mind that he is working on a full progression that we have only seen hints of so far. I’m sticking with my current set up for now and will progress as needed once the full program becomes avaialble.
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CT’s current ‘money’ exercises are: slight incline BP, slight decline BP, high pulls, trap bar deadlift, scrape the rack over head press (press the bar hard against power rack uprights as you press overhead), deadstart row. Have a look through my log for the last few weeks to see how I currently arrange the split - not the only way to do it obviously - do whatever works for you.
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rest between clusters: I don’t believe in prescribed rest periods as each person will be different and even from one day to the next a given person will require a different amount of rest depending on a number of factors - my opinion is that you should rest for as little time as necessary to be able to perform optimally on the next cluster set. Same goes for HDL sets - keep in mind some exercises are more challenging than others and this is very evident on HDL sets - I rest longer between deadlift HDL sets than I do for OHP or high pull HDL sets for example.
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scrape the rack press - yes, press it against the uprights in front of you as you press and as you perform the eccentric portion too.
Christian Thibaudeau: FOR MAX PUMP: I honestly believe, and it has been my experience, that the layering of (1) max ramp (2) Clusters (3) and Heavy Density Lifting (HDL) will build a ton of dense, hard mass even on coat racks. There are some who asked about adding more work afterwards. I mentioned that I like adding a few explosive sets. If one wanted to do a bit more pump work he could do 1-2 sets of the following (on the same lift at the 3 main techniques): …
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX PUMP (2): 1 set = 5 sec hold/5 reps/4 sec hold/4 reps/3 sec hold/3 reps/2 sec hold/2 reps/1 sec hold/1 rep… About 30-40% of the max is used. Normally, after the regular layering, only 1 set should be necessary. Chances are that you will barely be able to move anyway!
Today 11:15
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX PUMP (3): For presses the hold is done at the mid-range point. For high pulls it would be a shrug hold. For squats/trap bar it would be the mid-range. For rows it would be the peak contraction position.
Christian Thibaudeau: HDL SETS AND ROUNDS: The HDL portion of the workout is made up rounds which are made up of micro-sets with short rest between each. For example 5 reps/10 sec rest/4 reps/10 sec rest/3 reps/10 sec rest/2 reps/10 sec rest/1 rep… is ONE ROUND. You rest 90-180 sec. after the round and you perform 2-4 rounds per workout. The 1 SET you mention is for the max pump work that I talked about earlier that can be added at the end of HDL
Christian Thibaudeau: ADDING EXTRA WORK AFTER MAX RAMP/CLUSTER/HDL: WARNING … ONLY ADD ANY OF THAT STUFF IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU DIDN’T FULLY STIMULATE THE MUSCLES… WHICH SHOULD NOT BE OFTEN IF YOU DO THE LAYER RIGHT… The most frequent option will be (A) do not add anything to the max/cluster/HDL… the second option is (B) do some explosive work at the end, the third option is (C) do the max pump work at the end of the HDL portion.
Yesterday 14:06
Christian Thibaudeau: @ Justin… that’s exactly what I told Tim when I designed this approach: “My muscles feel bigger and denser after only one session”… when you think about it, every session SHOULD lead to changes, they might not always be significant for you to notice it, but they should be there And if something is VERY powerful there should be sessions where you can see the changes the next day or two.
Christian Thibaudeau: LIFT FROM PINS VS. REGULAR LIFTS: I’ve seen the 3 things (1) some people are stronger from pins (2) some people are weaker from pins (3) some people are the same. Those who are weaker from pins are those who rely more on the stretch reflex and less on muscle contraction at the beginning of the movement. Yes, it’s hard for the ego to lift less, but it is also addressing a weakness/limiting factor.
Christian Thibaudeau: @ Mccarthy… you hit the major groups 3x per week or so, but with different movements. Something like (1) Bench decline tilt (2) high pull (3) Bench incline tilt (4) high pull (5) Scrape the rack overhead press (6) Front squat/Trap bar dead with some lats work thrown in on the pull days would work fine.
Christian Thibaudeau: HIGH PULL VARIATIONS: I personally use 2 styles of high pulls and 3 variations of each. STYLE 1: Traditional high pull (pulling as high as you can, shooting for your neck) STYLE 2: Chinese-style high pull where you pull to sternum level and dip down toward the bar (imagine trying to bring your chest to the bar). For these 2 styles I can do the lift from hang, from blocks or from the floor (more)
Christian Thibaudeau: HIGH PULL VARIATIONS (2): Only the pulls from blocks and from the floor can be done for the max ramp/cluster/HDL layer. And I recommend using the blocks for most since the pulls from the floor are more technical.
Yesterday 15:20
Christian Thibaudeau: HIGH PULL FROM BLOCKS: I normally recommend a height that is 1-3" above the knee
Yesterday 16:30
Christian Thibaudeau: @ Sigil: (1) I don’t like to use the pins in the power rack for high pulls… too many things can go wrong! You hit the post with the plate, you squeeze your finger between the bar and safety pin, etc. I prefer to use two adjustable benches for blocks. (2) yes, one main movement per day
Christian Thibaudeau: RAMP TO MAX OPTIONS (2): (4) Perform 3/2/1 waves until you reach your max, starting fairly conservative on the first wave, shooting for 3 waves (e.g. 200x3, 210x2, 220x1, 210x3, 220x2, 230x1, 220x3, 230x2, 240x1)
Today 17:45
Christian Thibaudeau: RAMP TO MAX OPTIONS FOR THOSE WITH LOW-MODERATE STRENGTH LEVELS: If your max is not that high and you can reach it in a few sets you will not get enough volume nor enough neural activation to reap most of the benefits. Here are some options: (1) Double ramp (perform 2 sets with a given weight before going up) (2) Small jumps (instead of going up 20-30lbs per set, go up 5-10lbs per set) (3) Ramp up to a 3RM instead of a 1RM (people who are not that strong do not have much of a difference).
Christian Thibaudeau: NO. OF SETS TO RAMP TO MAX: I personally do sets of 3 reps for the first 4 sets then when I approach 80% I switch to singles./
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX PUMP LAYER: The MPL is not part of the regular approach, but can be added on after the HDL layer if you feel that the muscle needs a bit more. For a quick recap, you still use the same movement. You hold the bar 5 sec., do 5 reps, hold 4 sec, do 4 reps, hold 3 sec, do 3 reps, hold 2 sec, do 2 reps, hold 1 sec, do 1 rep. The hold is at the mid-range (bench, squat, trap bar dead), peak contraction (row) or shrug (high pulls). And you never rack the bar during the set.
Christian Thibaudeau: NO. OF SETS TO RAMP TO MAX: Here’s an example if I ramp up on 385 on bench press incline tilt from pins: 135 (35%), 185 (48%), 225 (58%), 275 (71%), 295 (77%), 315 (82%), 335 (87%), 355 (92%), 375 (97%), 385 (100%). The percentages are not targets, I just calculated them to give you an idea… roughly 10 ramp sets. 4 of 70% or less, 3 of less than 90%, 3 of 90-100%.
Christian Thibaudeau: @ ZjStrope… keep it simple… full dose of ANACONDA for any workout involving lifting things. I use Finibars mostly to increase calories and nutrients intake, so I can have them during the day but don’t use them at a specific time. ANACONDA pre and during, MAG-10 after (2-3 pulses in the 6 hours window)
Christian Thibaudeau: @ Micheal… there is no relationship between a power clean and an upright row. Most of the force production is through the hips, legs and lower back… the arms do pull, but mostly to direct the bar once momentum has been created.
Yesterday 17:44
Christian Thibaudeau: RAMP TO MAX OPTIONS FOR THOSE WITH LOW-MODERATE STRENGTH LEVELS: If your max is not that high and you can reach it in a few sets you will not get enough volume nor enough neural activation to reap most of the benefits. Here are some options: (1) Double ramp (perform 2 sets with a given weight before going up) (2) Small jumps (instead of going up 20-30lbs per set, go up 5-10lbs per set) (3) Ramp up to a 3RM instead of a 1RM (people who are not that strong do not have much of a difference).
Yesterday 17:45
Christian Thibaudeau: RAMP TO MAX OPTIONS (2): (4) Perform 3/2/1 waves until you reach your max, starting fairly conservative on the first wave, shooting for 3 waves (e.g. 200x3, 210x2, 220x1, 210x3, 220x2, 230x1, 220x3, 230x2, 240x1)
Yesterday 21:07
Christian Thibaudeau: NO. OF SETS TO RAMP TO MAX: Here’s an example if I ramp up on 385 on bench press incline tilt from pins: 135 (35%), 185 (48%), 225 (58%), 275 (71%), 295 (77%), 315 (82%), 335 (87%), 355 (92%), 375 (97%), 385 (100%). The percentages are not targets, I just calculated them to give you an idea… roughly 10 ramp sets. 4 of 70% or less, 3 of less than 90%, 3 of 90-100%.
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX PUMP LAYER: The MPL is not part of the regular approach, but can be added on after the HDL layer if you feel that the muscle needs a bit more. For a quick recap, you still use the same movement. You hold the bar 5 sec., do 5 reps, hold 4 sec, do 4 reps, hold 3 sec, do 3 reps, hold 2 sec, do 2 reps, hold 1 sec, do 1 rep. The hold is at the mid-range (bench, squat, trap bar dead), peak contraction (row) or shrug (high pulls). And you never rack the bar during the set.
Christian Thibaudeau: NO. OF SETS TO RAMP TO MAX: I personally do sets of 3 reps for the first 4 sets then when I approach 80% I switch to singles./
Christian Thibaudeau: CLUSTER REPS: To me the minimum rep number for the first cluster is 3… it’s fine if you only get 2 on the last set, but not the first one. That might happen if you hit a very good PR on the ramp that leaves the nervous system exhausted rather than activated. If you cannot get more than 2 on the first cluster, reduce the weight by about 10lbs and start over.
Christian Thibaudeau: DURATION OF THE MAX RAMP SECTION: I last me about 15-20 minutes when doing it with my partner… the cluster section lasts about 10 minutes and the HDL section 10-15 minutes.
Christian Thibaudeau: ABS MOVEMENT DURING AB BLITZES: I mentionned it many times in the past: with abs it’s not about the movement but how you contract the muscles during the exercise. Before you start the rep you flex your abs as hard as you can (imagine that I was gonna punch you in the stomach) THEN you do the rep… at the end of the rep you flex hard again then return to the starting position trying to maintain the flex.
Christian Thibaudeau: @ Dom… all fine choices… you might want to throw in the deadstart row in there (as a rare second exercise on a high pull day)
Christian Thibaudeau: @ TRU… I personally do the rows on their own day. I was going from the schedule for which the question was asked. I use a similar scheme as the other lifts except that I ramp to a 3RM not 1RM. I also focus on perfect movement and contraction. With rows it’s easy to use a lot more weight by slightly cheating or changing body position. I want the torso to be almost parallel to the floor and focus on a hard squeeze at the peak. I only go heavier if I can maintain that.
@domcib - 1) deadstart rows: I use a pronated grip although I’m sure you could use a supinated grip if you wanted to - try them both and see which gives you the best feel. No need to use pins on the deadstart row - just lift right from the floor - I start the movement with a bit of leg drive and then pull towards the lower abdomen or hip crease - again, play around with the line of pull and see what gives you the best feel (rowing higher ie toward the chest with an elbows flared position will emphasize mid back/rear delts more while wide grip with elbows in and pulling to the hip crease hits more lower traps/lats - all depends what you want and you can vary the pull often to hit different aspects.
- for OH pressing from pins use a setting that puts the bar somewhere between mouth and eye-height height - again, the optimal placement depends on the individual - play around and see what feels best. Personally, I set the bar around bridge of the nose height.
Max Ramp → Cluster → HDL → Max Pump Training System
Collection of Coach Thibs LiveSpills from Indigo-3G Support
Dates: 11/05/2012 to 11/29/2012
11/05-2012:
Christian Thibaudeau: SIMPLE HEAVY DENSITY LIFTING EXPERIMENT: Try this if you want to feel what HDL is all about. After a strength workout for one of the main lift (chose one: low decline bench, low incline bench, high pull from blocks, deadlift/trap bar deadlift, deadstart row). Using about 65-70% of your max (the goal is to eventually be able to use 80%). Perform 5 reps, rest 10 sec, 4 reps, rest 10 sec, 3 reps, rest 10 sec, 2 reps, rest 10 sec, 1 rep, isometric hold for as long as you can. (more)
Christian Thibaudeau: SIMPLE HEAVYD DENSITY LIFTING EXPERIMENT (2): The iso hold is done at the conclusion of the set (go right into it after your last rep). For the benches it’s 2-3" from the chest, for the deadlift, just below the knees, for the high pull in the shrug position, deadstart row, horizontal shrug position. All reps are from a deadstart, which means that the benches are done from pins just above the chest. Perform 3 such sets.
11/09-2012:
Christian Thibaudeau: I do not do any structural work… ramping up to a training max, clusters, HDL. If a session is done well using these three methods, any quality bodyweight exercises would not be possible. And I do not like to add work just to burn more calories… ring work is a KILLER on recovery! If a bodyweight exercise is easy, then there is no point in doing it. If it’s challenging you will not be able to do it after a full session and it would hurt recovery if you could.
Christian Thibaudeau: @ Brad… my sessions pretty much follow the same format… I would gradually ramp up to a training max, then use 90% of that weight and perform 3 sets of clusters trying to get as many reps as possible without using more than 10 sec. of rest, then I would use 65-70% and perform 5 reps/rest 10 sec/4 reps/rest 10 sec/3 reps/rest 10 sec/2 reps/rest 10 sec/1 rep… this is one set and I do 2-3. (more)
Christian Thibaudeau: @ Brad… I also use a second “non focus main lift” in the workout, but since I want all 3 lifting methods for the main lift to be done in a row I would actually start the session with the second lift (e.g. front squat) and ramp up to a training max, do the 90% clusters, but no HDL… BUT between the 2-3 sets of HDL on trap bar dead, I perform a normal set of 3 rep on the secondary lift
Christian Thibaudeau: @ Justin… I use exactly 90% for clusters (since it also serves as a regulatory mechanism for HDL). A cluster is sets of 1 rep with no more than 10 seconds of rest (from the end of a rep to the start of the next, not the moment you set-up)… if I can get 5 or less reps, I’ll use 5-4-3-2-1 with HDL if I get more than 5 I do 4-4-3-3-2-2-1-1 for HDL… HDL is started with 65-70% and the goal is to eventually be able to do the sets with 80%
Christian Thibaudeau: (cont) So a bench press focus session might look like: (1) High pull from blocks work to training max (2) High pull from blocks 3 cluster sets with 90% (3) Bench press decline tilt training max (4) BPIT 3 cluster sets with 90% (4) BPIT 3 HDL sets with 70% with one set of 3 on high pulls between sets
11/13-2012:
Christian Thibaudeau: 4-4-3-3-2-2 HDL SETS: There are a few people who can do that HDL scheme and do not feel fatigued. The good news is that they are very resilient, the bad news is that they are slow activators and take A LOT of work just to get into the zone and properly stimulate growth. Depending on how much weight you used, do consider using more weight as it might the reason why it wasn’t that. The ultimate goal would be able to do HDL with 80% of the ramped up max of the day.
Christian Thibaudeau: RAMP TO MAX/CLUSTER/HDL: This IS the basic format: (1) Ramp up to a training max (max without technique breakdown), (2) 3 Cluster sets with 90% of the training max, (3) 2-3 HDL sets with 70-80% of the training max. This approach IS autoregulating since the load used on the sets is based on the performance of the day
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX RAMP/CLUSTERS/HDL: Because of the intensity of the session I only train one movement per session (same exercise for all 3 methods). I stick with the same movements 90% of the time… right now it looks like (1) bench press incline tilt (2) High pulls from blocks (3) bench press decline tilt (4) High pulls from floor (could also be done from floor) (5) Trap bar deadlift/Row (not done with the full style right now) (6) Scrape the rack overhead press… (more)
Christian Thibaudeau: (cont) note that I sometimes do power snatches instead of high pulls and that front squats could be done with the full style instead of trap bar deadlift. BUT what I find is that properly done high pulls do hit the legs very well and you do not need much other lower body work to get maximum improvements.
Christian Thibaudeau: @ BiP… yes, the bar does have a “weak knurling” which isn’t so bad. It’s rare to find a bar with the perfect knurling. Some are too weak and make it a bit harder to grip and some others are so rough that it’s impossible to do the olympic lifts on them frequently without tearing your hands appart. If I have to choose, I prefer the first option.
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX RAMP/CLUSTERS/HDL: Because of the intensity of the session I only train one movement per session (same exercise for all 3 methods). I stick with the same movements 90% of the time… right now it looks like (1) bench press incline tilt (2) High pulls from blocks (3) bench press decline tilt (4) High pulls from floor (could also be done from floor) (5) Trap bar deadlift/Row (not done with the full style right now) (6) Scrape the rack overhead press… (more)
Christian Thibaudeau: (cont) note that I sometimes do power snatches instead of high pulls and that front squats could be done with the full style instead of trap bar deadlift. BUT what I find is that properly done high pulls do hit the legs very well and you do not need much other lower body work to get maximum improvements.
Christian Thibaudeau: And yes, I added the scrape the rack overhead press. For 2-3 months my delts have improved a lot with no overhead work. But just for fun, to see how other lifts responded to the max/cluster/HDL structure I tried it with the scrape the rack and I can say that I never had such a powerful pump and stimulation in my delts. I prefer the scrape the rack instead of regular military press on this. It also works well with front squats from the bottom (I used it with a female O lifter)
11/14-12:
Christian Thibaudeau: 4-5 DAYS SPLIT WITH MAX/CLUSTER/HDL: It’s fairly simple… one lift per day. (1) Bench press incline tilt (2) High pull from blocks (3) Bench press decline tilt (4) Front squat and row (5) Scrape the rack overhead press
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX/CLUSTER/HDL EXERCISES: Use the same movement for both. For example if you pick high pulls, do high pulls for all 3 methods. Keep in mind that (1) the load for the clusters is based on the max achieved, if you use a different movement it doesnt work (2) the HDL rep scheme is selected based on the cluster performance... if both movements are different it doesnt work.
11/15-12:
Christian Thibaudeau: ADDING WORK AFTER HDL: As GmG mentioned, until you experienced a truly well executed max ramp/cluster/HDL you should not ask about doing more work as you have no idea how powerful the combination is. The pump after HDL when it is preceded by the two other layers is unlike anything you ever experienced. I tried to add some isolation work afterwards and it actually decreased the pump
Christian Thibaudeau: EXPLOSIVE WORK AFTER MAX RAMP/CLUSTER/HDL: I love doing explosive work after HDL. I feel that it is the only type of work that can add something to the workout once the 3 steps are done.I myself sometimes do light power snatches are high pulls HDL and throws/jumps could be used to.
Christian Thibaudeau: LOADED STRETCH AFTER HDL: Adding a loaded stretch of 30-45 sec. at the end of the HDL work (not after every set, after everything is done) is actually a good idea. There is no doubt that stretching a pumped muscle under load is a great way to promote more hypertrophy (either via fascia stretching or release of growth factors).
Christian Thibaudeau: EXPLOSIVE WORK AFTER HDL: I would wait until every set of the HDL section is done before doing the explosive sets. 3-4 sets of very explosive movements (3-5 per set) is what I would shoot for.
11/16-12:
Christian Thibaudeau: LIFTING STYLE FOR MAX/CLUSTER/HDL: You should use the same rep style for all 3 sections, especially for the first two (ramp to max and cluster). And I highly recommend going from pins since your performance will decrease a lot if you have to rack/unrack the bar on every rep. You CAN do HDL regular style (not from pins) but the two others have to be done from pins.
Christian Thibaudeau: HDL FROM PINS: You reset the bar on pins between every rep but do not pause. Basially there is about 1-2 seconds between the putting down of the bar and the start of the next rep. You take your full 10-15 sec. only after each micro-set.
Christian Thibaudeau: HDL FROM PINS: You bring the bar down to the pins under control and do not bounce on the pins… the same could be said with deadlifts: You put the bar down on the floor: you do not stop short or bounce it off the floor.
Christian Thibaudeau: CLUSTER PERFORMANCE FOR HDL SELECTION: Since the load used for the cluster is proportionally the same for everyone (90% of your max), the number of reps you can do determines if your strength resiliency is good (you can do 6 or more reps per cluster) or average/low (if you can do 5 or less reps per cluster). Someone with low strength resiliency will have to decrease the weight too much for HDL if he stuck with the 4-4-3-3-2-2, so 5-4-3-2-1 is better. (more)
Christian Thibaudeau: CLUSTER VS. HDL (2): On the other hand, someone with a high level of strength resiliency might actually find 5-4-3-2-1 with the proper training load for HDL (65-75% for most) to be too easy. That’s why I use cluster performance to determine which loading scheme to use for HDL. (more)
Christian Thibaudeau: CLUSTER VS. HDL (3): If you do 3 clusters with 90% and can do less than 17 total cluster reps you should use 5-4-3-2-1 for HDL and if you can do 17 or more cluster reps (total over 3 sets) you will get better results from 4-4-3-3-2-2-1-1… those who are VERY resilient (more than 22 total cluster reps over 3 sets with 90%) will probably need 5-5-4-4-3-3-2-2 to get max results.
Christian Thibaudeau: ADDED EXPLOSIVE WORK: The explosive work is specific to the HDL performed… we want to work speed on a pumped muscle. The type of explosive work can vary as long as it is specific to the HDL movement and can be done explosively.
Christian Thibaudeau: USING MAX/CLUSTER/HDL FOR FRONT SQUATS: Just like with presses, if you chose to use that approach with front squats (I did with 3 olympic lifters) then you start in the bottom from pins on all 3 methods. But you stand up between cluster reps and HDL micro-sets otherwise you will tire out too fast. With olympic lifters I start the squat at the very bottom, but most will only be able to start at parallel.
Christian Thibaudeau: COOL THING WITH MAX/CLUSTER/HDL: The motivating this with that sequencing is that you have 3 areas to improve on. Let’s face it, you will not always be able to add weight to your max set. But if you can’t, you can shoot for 1 more total rep on the clusters or even on doing one more rep at the end on an HDL set.
11/19-12:
Christian Thibaudeau: FOR MAX PUMP: I honestly believe, and it has been my experience, that the layering of (1) max ramp (2) Clusters (3) and Heavy Density Lifting (HDL) will build a ton of dense, hard mass even on coat racks. There are some who asked about adding more work afterwards. I mentioned that I like adding a few explosive sets. If one wanted to do a bit more pump work he could do 1-2 sets of the following (on the same lift at the 3 main techniques): …
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX PUMP (2): 1 set = 5 sec hold/5 reps/4 sec hold/4 reps/3 sec hold/3 reps/2 sec hold/2 reps/1 sec hold/1 rep… About 30-40% of the max is used. Normally, after the regular layering, only 1 set should be necessary. Chances are that you will barely be able to move anyway!
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX PUMP (3): For presses the hold is done at the mid-range point. For high pulls it would be a shrug hold. For squats/trap bar it would be the mid-range. For rows it would be the peak contraction position.
Christian Thibaudeau: HDL SETS AND ROUNDS: The HDL portion of the workout is made up rounds which are made up of micro-sets with short rest between each. For example 5 reps/10 sec rest/4 reps/10 sec rest/3 reps/10 sec rest/2 reps/10 sec rest/1 rep… is ONE ROUND. You rest 90-180 sec. after the round and you perform 2-4 rounds per workout. The 1 SET you mention is for the max pump work that I talked about earlier that can be added at the end of HDL
Christian Thibaudeau: ADDING EXTRA WORK AFTER MAX RAMP/CLUSTER/HDL: WARNING … ONLY ADD ANY OF THAT STUFF IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU DIDN’T FULLY STIMULATE THE MUSCLES… WHICH SHOULD NOT BE OFTEN IF YOU DO THE LAYER RIGHT… The most frequent option will be (A) do not add anything to the max/cluster/HDL… the second option is (B) do some explosive work at the end, the third option is (C) do the max pump work at the end of the HDL portion.
11/20-12:
Christian Thibaudeau: DEADSTOP ROW FOR RAM/CLUSTER/HDL: I will actually add them this week. The problem is that most people lose the efficacy of the row when they start to focus on the load instead of on perfect position and contraction and the max ramp/cluster puts you in a ‘‘load’’ mindset. I tried the row with the layer and it works GREAT as long as you are dedicated to focusing on technique and contraction instead of loads.
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX RAMP/C;USTER/HDL FOR WOMEN: I used the layer with my wife and had to adapt it a bit. The 90% (cluster) and 70% (for HDL) where a tad light for her. So I used 95 and 75%. And the 5-4-3-2-1 HDL scheme is ‘‘easy’’ for her, so I used the 4-4-3-3-2-2-1-1 and even used 5-5-4-4-3-3-2-2 with her. Keep in mind that this approach is TO BUILD A LOT OF MUSCLE. Which might not be the goal of most women.
Christian Thibaudeau: ‘‘TRYING’’ HDL: I notice that a lot of people seem to ‘‘try HDL’’ … hopefully that doesn’t mean only doing the HDL layer. The whole system is based on each step potentiating the next and the combination of the 3 (max ramp, cluster, HDL) creating max growth. YES HDL by itself is a good method, but it pales in comparison with the combined effect of the 3 layers.
Christian Thibaudeau: HDL REPS: If you can get all the reps in without using bad lifting form, do it, even if it means grinding out some reps. I shoot for completing all 3 sets with the same weight and proper rep scheme (5-4-3-2-1 for example). But sometimes on that last set I break on the 3 and will simply add another micro set of 1 to get all the reps in (5-4-2-2-1-1)
Christian Thibaudeau: EXERCISES FOR MAX RAMP/CLUSTER/HDL: I have my favorite, and I mentioned them over and over again. But yeah, HDL/cluster work with almost any compound movement where you can pause between micro-sets (or reps for cluster) without losing energy unracking the weight.
11/21-12:
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX RAMP/CLUSTER/HDL REP STYLE: The same rep style is used for all those methods (if they are all done from pins): start each from for a deadstart, no bounce. And try to push as hard as possible on every rep right from the start.
Christian Thibaudeau: HDL: GOING ALL OUT VS. SAVING SOME ON THE MICRO SETS: It is possible to have a hard time finishing one of the micro-set within an HDL round. For example in a 5-4-3-2-1 HDL round the 5 and 4 might go up fine, and on the “3” when you are on the 2nd rep you might feel that the 3rd one will be a life saving effort. You can either (a) only do two reps and add a single rep at the end of the round (5-4-2-2-1-1) or try to get that 3rd rep… (more)
Christian Thibaudeau: HDL GOING ALL OUT… (2): In the later case the micro set of 2 might be too hard and you might only be able to get 1 rep. In which case you can also add another single at the end of the round to get all the reps in (5-4-3-1-1-1)
Christian Thibaudeau: MTW VS. TRAINING MAX: The first step of the max ramp/cluster/HDL (max ramp) is NOT working to your MTW (maximum training weight) but rather the training max, which is the heaviest weight you can lift without form breakdown whereas the MTW is the maximum weight you can accelerate. The training max will be about 10% higher than th e MTW and the cluster use 90% of the training max, NOT the MTW.
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX RAMP/CLUSTER/HDL TIME: The duration of a workout depends on the lift and on how strong you are. The biggest time consumption comes from the max ramp IF your strength level is high. Obviously if I ramp up to 500lbs on a lift it will take longer than if I ramp up to 150lbs. When training with my partner, the max/cluster/HDL layer takes about 40-45 minutes. Sometimes we add the max pump layer (I think I discussed that on monday) and the session lasts about an hour.
11/22-12:
Christian Thibaudeau: COMPRESSED WORKOUT: If you keep the pace up you can probably complete a full high pull MAX RAMP/CLUSTER/HDL session in 30 minutes or less and will get an amazing workout… first because almost all of the muscles get worked but also because of the high metabolic demand.
Christian Thibaudeau: Max ramp/Cluster/HDL is a powerful punch: you accomplish more stimulation in 30-45 minutes than with almost any workout lasting 2-3x as long
11/23-12:
Christian Thibaudeau: OVERHEAD PRESS VARIATION FOR MAX RAMP/CLUSTER/HDL: I personally recommend pressing from pins and especially scrape the rack press. I would not recommend behind the neck work. The push press is workable (I’ve used it with an olympic lifter I’m working with) but unless you have a very solid and stable technique I would not recommend it
Christian Thibaudeau: DEADLIFTS FOR MAX RAMP/CLUSTER/HDL: Any compound movement that can be done from a deadstart can be used for the layering. But deadlifts ARE very hard. And remember that every rep has to start from a deadstart… so no bouncing on the floor during HDL. If your body is well suited for them you should be fine.
11/26-12:
Christian Thibaudeau: RAMP TO MAX OPTIONS FOR THOSE WITH LOW-MODERATE STRENGTH LEVELS: If your max is not that high and you can reach it in a few sets you will not get enough volume nor enough neural activation to reap most of the benefits. Here are some options: (1) Double ramp (perform 2 sets with a given weight before going up) (2) Small jumps (instead of going up 20-30lbs per set, go up 5-10lbs per set) (3) Ramp up to a 3RM instead of a 1RM (people who are not that strong do not have much of a difference).
Christian Thibaudeau: RAMP TO MAX OPTIONS (2): (4) Perform 3/2/1 waves until you reach your max, starting fairly conservative on the first wave, shooting for 3 waves (e.g. 200x3, 210x2, 220x1, 210x3, 220x2, 230x1, 220x3, 230x2, 240x1)
Christian Thibaudeau: NO. OF SETS TO RAMP TO MAX: Here’s an example if I ramp up on 385 on bench press incline tilt from pins: 135 (35%), 185 (48%), 225 (58%), 275 (71%), 295 (77%), 315 (82%), 335 (87%), 355 (92%), 375 (97%), 385 (100%). The percentages are not targets, I just calculated them to give you an idea… roughly 10 ramp sets. 4 of 70% or less, 3 of less than 90%, 3 of 90-100%.
Christian Thibaudeau: MAX PUMP LAYER: The MPL is not part of the regular approach, but can be added on after the HDL layer if you feel that the muscle needs a bit more. For a quick recap, you still use the same movement. You hold the bar 5 sec., do 5 reps, hold 4 sec, do 4 reps, hold 3 sec, do 3 reps, hold 2 sec, do 2 reps, hold 1 sec, do 1 rep. The hold is at the mid-range (bench, squat, trap bar dead), peak contraction (row) or shrug (high pulls). And you never rack the bar during the set.
Christian Thibaudeau: NO. OF SETS TO RAMP TO MAX: I personally do sets of 3 reps for the first 4 sets then when I approach 80% I switch to singles./
11/27-12:
Christian Thibaudeau: RAMP TO MAX/CLUSTER/HDL: This is VERY powerful stuff and when done the RIGHT WAY it can change the way your physique look. The key is to do it right though… each layer is as important as the next one. Some people see the max ramp only as a way to know how much weight to use for the other exercises… not so. It has a training effect on muscle density/hardness and activation. Do not do it lightly.
Christian Thibaudeau: RAMP TO MAX SECTION: I personally like to milk it. I think that the best way to approach all 3 payers (4 if you add the max pump layer) is to imagine that it is the only section you will be doing. If you think ‘‘let’s just get to the max quick to avoid fatigue’’ you will actually lose a lot of the benefits when it comes to stimulation and activation.
Christian Thibaudeau: DURATION OF THE MAX RAMP SECTION: I last me about 15-20 minutes when doing it with my partner… the cluster section lasts about 10 minutes and the HDL section 10-15 minutes.
Christian Thibaudeau: CLUSTER REPS: To me the minimum rep number for the first cluster is 3… it’s fine if you only get 2 on the last set, but not the first one. That might happen if you hit a very good PR on the ramp that leaves the nervous system exhausted rather than activated. If you cannot get more than 2 on the first cluster, reduce the weight by about 10lbs and start over.
Christian Thibaudeau: CLUSTERS WITHOUT PINS: Yes, clusters can be done on a “regular” exercise (not from pins), the ramp can also be done this way obviously and during the HDL the weight is not high enough for the unracking to hurt the performance. While I normally prefer to unrack all my own lifts, if you do clusters on a regular bench I do recommend having a spotter hand you the bar.
11/28-12:
Christian Thibaudeau: GETTING LESS THEN 3 REPS ON CLUSTERS: I can happen if you hit a miraculous PR on the max ramp or if you lose strength very rapidly from set to set. In that case start with 85% and when you can do 15 total reps or more in 3 sets you can move up to using 90%
Christian Thibaudeau: THE PURPOSE OF RAMP TO MAX/CLUSTER/HDL: It is primarily built to build muscle, and mostly THE POWER LOOK. The hard, dense, animalistic look of an explosive pro athlete with a lot of size. My primary objective was to build a certain look… and it turns out that the best way to do so also build a lot of strength, power and resiliency which is why I started using it will all kind of athletes
Christian Thibaudeau: CLUSTER REST BETWEEN REPS: I don’t want full rest…the goal of the pause is to restore a bit of energy to be able to perform better and to allow nutrients to flow into the muscles. If the rest period is too long you will actually recruit less muscle fibers because they will not get fatigued and you will not need to recruit more. It’s not necessarily 10 sec… 7-10 is fine
domcib: me too. thanks so much!
Christian Thibaudeau: They will only get bigger… on those words, gotta catch some sleep to avoid having a drop in performance tomorrow!
domcib: thats some crazy stuff. personall i cannot believe some of the weights i have done.
Christian Thibaudeau: YES! You lived the exact reason why I do not like to use percentages based on ONE test day and keep the same for the whole cycle. It can only work if (1) the percentages are so conservative that it’s easy to get (but is it training hard enough or does it only give the illusion of success) (2) if you do nothing but train and rest… have zero outside stress or other physical/emotional/psychological demands.
domcib: we had a conversation about % awhile back. you mentioned that it did not have a lot of value unless it was for that particular day. i can now truly attest to that Fact!
Christian Thibaudeau: At abput 140lbs
Christian Thibaudeau: I know… I mentionned today that I was actually shocked at how well it works. And it seemd to work with every “big” movement. I even used it on overhead supports with a female olympic lifter (actually it’s more like a half overhead squat from pins since her knees are bent 100 deg. at the start)… she went from 275 max/255 cluster/205 HDL to 325/295 and 255 in one week.
domcib: you should have it patented
Christian Thibaudeau: Yes because it means that you are more resilient at a high percentage of your capacity. Because the clusters are based on your capacity THAT DAY then the 90% is still 90% of what you are capable of doing. So getting more reps is still an improvement.
domcib: you know, this layeringsystem is really ingenious.
Christian Thibaudeau: That’s what counts… you cannot always control external factors that WILL affect max performance. BUT with the layer system you can always end up getting a good workout that will lead to gains,
domcib: so. if you get more cluster reps, even with lower weight based on that days max, thats improvement?
domcib: i hear ya. and i had some less sleep, extra stress, and not a full day of eating yesterday. so i guess you add that all up and voila. lower numbers, but yet based on your “recipe” i ended up with a good workout.
Christian Thibaudeau: Also, regarding records… normally you can beat a real max PR every 3-4 weeks (there are some blessed exceptions but generally they are not big PRs)… in those 3-4 weeks you build up the next PR by working hard on the other layers… when the other layers will have improved enough you will have another max boost
Christian Thibaudeau: @ Dom… that’s why I like the layer system: you have 3 (or 4 if you do the max pump layer) chanced to improve. If you can’t improve on the max ramp, try to get more total cluster reps, if that doesn’t work try to do more weight on HDL or do the same weight with a bit shorter rest periods between micro-sets
Christian Thibaudeau: Another that I train does olympic lifting and crossfit. She had a crossfit competition (which lasted the whole day and they had 5 workouts) and she freaked out that her olympic lifting numbers were down for 5 days … she thought that she was getting weaker even though she got a clean & jerk PR at the crossfit competition.
domcib: since that happened, today i had the mentality of not focusing on my max, but on just getting my max and focus on cluster and hdl.
Christian Thibaudeau: Yes I do. I often tell my athletes to never look at anything in isolation. What you did the preceding days training-wise and activity-wise will definetly affect your performance, especially in a max effort. I had an olympic lifter do a deadlift workout with the powerlifting crew (she wants to do a powerlifting competition too)… had a deadlift PR… the next day she was suprised that here clean & jerk was down by 15lbs.
Yesterday 22:45
domcib: hmmm. check this out. the other day when i did tbdl, i had a new pr of 385. i havent done that in a gazillion years. so i went in to my next tbdl with the goal of hitting 405. i got to 385 but got spent doing it. was just about totally done after the ramp
domcib: this is interesting. do you feel your thoughts about a workout before hand can have a profound effect on the workout?
Christian Thibaudeau: YES! Words have power… that’s why I do not like the term “deload”… instinctively when people do a “deload” they don’t train as hard (volume should go down but not intensity or effort). I prefer to call it “peaking”… you know why you are reducing volume but you also know that you are trying to beat a PR.
domcib: i hear you! i mean it’s what i write in my lil book, to keep track. but i guess that part doesnt matter. just do it
domcib: that makes sense. the psychology of your words can have more effect than you think
Christian Thibaudeau: BTW, you do not “count” anything in the ramp… there is nothing to count… you don’t have to hit a certain number of sets… if you do 3 you do 3… if you get 20 sets you get 20… do whatever you need to ramp up to your max that is all that matters.
domcib: yep. cluster and hdl were great using the prescribed numbers based on that particular max. in fact my chest still feels good. and my workout was at 8 am. that is typical with this layering routine anyway. you are always “pumped”
Christian Thibaudeau: I don’t like the term warm-up… it just programs the brain to do pointless, focus-less sets. I prefer to call them preparation sets. It can isolation work, it can be the same movement. The goals are to prepare the muscles and joints as well as pull nutrients-rich blood in the muscle. But in both cases (isolation or same movement) we want as little fatigue as possible to avoid hurting the ramp
domcib: so the pepump is sort of a warmup? after som estretching, i usually do some real light sets of the movement of that day to use as a “warmup”. i typically do not count them in my ramps.
Yesterday 22:33
Christian Thibaudeau: No because his cluster went great
Yesterday 22:04
believer423: Neural fatigue?
Christian Thibaudeau: @ Dom… I sometimes do some pre-pump, mostly when I train early and mostly to prepare the joints and muscle for action. A max is really unstablem so it is not unusual to have ups and downs. But 50lbs is a lot… maybe there were external factors involved
Yesterday 21:54
domcib: @ct after hitting new pr on decline last week at 275, today max was 225. still had a great workout with clusters and hdls, but that’s a huge difference. what can i attribute this to? thanks
Yesterday 21:19
domcib: @ct. are you still doing prepump? or using the ramp layer as a sort of prepump?