Re Linford Christie
The IAAF website has him at 1.89m and 84kg.
I think that 6.2-6.3 at 185lbs or so is about right.
[quote]reconyah wrote:
Common sense? Try to think outside the T-Nation box for a bit. Most of the greatest strength coaches in the world probably dont even speak English, much less post on this site, despite it being a great resource.[/quote]
First of all, if you need to reread the original post. The poster clearly states that he is trying to decide between “Pavels Power to the People method” or such programs by Westside, Chad Waterbury, Christian Thibaudeau and Charles Poliquin."
If the choice is between Pavel and the others whom he picked I think I pointed him in the proper direction.
Secondly, if you have been a long time reader of this great web site you would already know that T-Nation lives “outside the box.” Do you honestly think that CT and CW agree on everything? And then there is Charles Poliquin. Do you think he lives inside the box? Think again. And there are a host of other outstanding Coaches affiliated with T-Nation.
This really is a great place to learn, grow and get better. I’m not putting Pavel down…yet 
You seem to be the one having the logic problem. Again, please scroll back and reread the original posters question. Hatfield, who I think is a giant in the world of Powerlifting and strength training was not mentioned.
I think that’s an interesting statement and one I would like you to back up (if you don’t mind). You call Pavel “one of the best strength coaches in the Nation.” In order to be considered at such a lofty status I think he would have needed to train some world class strength champions. Now maybe I’m not up on the latest Pavel champions list, but I don’t recall him training any world class strength athletes.
To my knowledge (and you Pavel lovers please correct me if I’m wrong, and I’m sure you will) Pavel has not trained any world champion Powerlifters, Worlds Strongest Men competitors or any Olympic Lifting champions. Yet, you consider him “one of the best strength coaches in the Nation” Why?
Keep in mind I am not claiming that he has not had considerable commercial success training “average Joe’s” (like me and you). Do you think that qualifies him to be “one of the best strength coaches in the Nation?” Think again comrade! (I had to say it once)
And I have to assume that you (like me) are an average Joe.
Beyond Bodybuilding is a fantastic book we can agree on this.
I can also agree with you on pavel’s PTP’s book being rather expensive. If you take out the advertisements, unnecessary white space on certain pages you have about 70 pages of information. Last time I checked the book was selling for about $35.00. Does seem a bit pricey. But if you are advancing with that information then it’s well worth it, right?
[quote] One of the wonderful things about Pavel’s work is that it isnt fluff. It is all solid information, and a lot of it is things you dont normally hear about.
[/quote]
And one of the bad things about his books are that they are loaded with filler. PTP alone had about 17 pages of advertisements! Which by the way is about 15% of the total “claimed” pages in the book.
But, again if the information works for you then it’s all worth it, right?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Lol. Never underestimate those “secret Russian tricks”…[/quote]
Simply squeeze your sphincter and watch the fun begin!
Zeb-
First of all, I don’t think deciding between the aforementioned and Pavel is common sense, especially if he has been training in “conventional ways”. That was more of the reference in my first post, saying that the choice was obvious, seemingly for bias for T-Nation or bias against Pavel (and I’m not trying to bash T-Nation in any way, excellent site, wonderful info, and free is a wonderful price). The original post was improvement in only strength. The people you mentioned have much more of a slant towards mass. Poliquin is one of best bodybuilding coaches there is as far as I’ve heard (not into it, so I dont really know.). The different programs by these different coaches provide different results and fit the different needs of the people using them, so I dont see Pavel’s as inferior to anyone that would post on T-Nation. I mentioned Hatfield as he is generally considered a guru in the field and he does not post here, similar to Pavel (just making that point that T-Nation isnt that end all of lifting knowledge as many on the board seem to make it out to be).
I wouldn’t know who Pavel has trained by name. If you aren’t all that aware of is work (it seems you are), he seems to keep the idenities of his clients hidden. I’m not sure if thats a legal issue or not. One of his books mentions working with a couple of NFL guys, I beleive he named the teams but not that players. We know that he trains SWAT, athletes, etc. (and he was a Spetnaz officer), but we dont know who, so as far as I know thats speculating. I would also consider the improvement made with average Joe’s more important than with elite athletes. For example, I think Defranco’s Westside for Skinny is one of the best articles I’ve seen on here. He’s only got a couple of testimonials from known athletes (and not stars), but the response showed how much it helped people. I think that coach shouldnt be measured by what he has, but what he does with the clients he is given (NCAA recruiting and NFL drafting, etc are exceptions, work with me). Hell, a lot of NFL teams still are reportedly using HIT training and natilus machines. More of a testimony to their athletic ability than their training regimens.
I dont really count the advertisements in his books. I just look at the info. Although its usually 70 half-filled pages, he usually does more with that than most people seem to do with a whole book. Just like most writers here seem to do with free articles.
I just see Pavel’s methods as some greats ways to train. I think the poster would benefit greatly from it, and as mentioned before, most people use a cycle for around three weeks, then resume a normal PL cycle, so its not like he couldnt use the T-Nation authors right after a short PTP cycle.
[quote]reconyah wrote:
Zeb-
First of all, I don’t think deciding between the aforementioned and Pavel is common sense,[/quote]
You can insult the original poster all you want, but it seems that he had it narrowed down to what he wanted. And I gave him the very best recommendation available!
[quote]Poliquin is one of best bodybuilding coaches there is as far as I’ve heard (not into it, so I dont really know.). The different programs by these different coaches provide different results and fit the different needs of the people using them, so I dont see Pavel’s as inferior to anyone that would post on T-Nation.
[/quote]
I think you have missed my point. I am not claiming that Pavel is inferior (in this post). What I am claiming is that he alone is not superior to T-Nation given the outstanding site which Tim and TC have put together. How can one man (even a good man) be superior to many good man?
[quote]I mentioned Hatfield as he is generally considered a guru in the field and he does not post here, similar to Pavel
[/quote]
That is about the only similarity that the two have. Fred Hatfield is an accomplished Powerlifting champion and I believe the first man to Squat over 1000 pounds! He has some serious credentials and outstanding records of achievment!
[quote] just making that point that T-Nation isnt that end all of lifting knowledge as many on the board seem to make it out to be. The original post was improvement in only strength. The people you mentioned have much more of a slant towards mass.
[/quote]
You don’t think Dave Tate is into strength? And I suppose that Dan John is a weakling? I think Eric Cressy just Deadlifted somewhere around 600lbs and I don’t believe that he weighs over 165!
These guys may not talk with an accent, but they sure do know their stuff. And in addition to that they also have won many, many trophy’s in actual strength competition. In other words, they are accomplished in their field. They walk the walk-Not just talk the talk!
Your really are not being fair in your assessment. You seem to place Pavel on a pedestal on the one hand. But, on the other hand you seem much less kind to T-Nation. I just want to remind you that T-Nation represents plenty of qualified strength coaches.
I know you only have a handful of posts on this site, so you probably don’t realize the abundance of information that is available here. Let’s take a short walk over to the authors section and see who we can come up with:
Eric Cressey-Alwyn Cosgrove-Dan John-Charles Poliquin-Mike Robertson- John Davies -Charles Staley-Dave Tate-Christian Thibaudeau-Chad Waterbury. And many others!
And let’s foregt David Barr and John Beradi who give top rate nutritional advice! Does Pavel also claim to be an expert on nutrition?
Honestly, any one of the above coaches are at least equal (if not far superior) to Pavel in the ability to pass on quality information. Now if you combine all of them together and compare them to Pavel, well it’s obviously no contest.
And to top it off, they do it every week here for FREE (as you stated). No $35 (half filled) books to purchase. No high pressure marketing schemes that make you want to bang our head against the wall if you here them just one more time.
[quote]I wouldn’t know who Pavel has trained by name. If you aren’t all that aware of is work (it seems you are), he seems to keep the idenities of his clients hidden. I’m not sure if thats a legal issue or not. One of his books mentions working with a couple of NFL guys, I beleive he named the teams but not that players. We know that he trains SWAT, athletes, etc. (and he was a Spetnaz officer), but we dont know who, so as far as I know thats speculating.
[/quote]
There is no question that you can be a legitimate strength coach and not train world champions. However, you made the claim: “Pavel is one of the best strength coachs in the nation…” And with all due respect to SWAT’ and “a couple of NFL guys” they are not what anyone would refer to as “world class strength athletes.”
Now Dave Tate for example, who is a regular contributor to T-Nation and came out of Westside Gym is an accomplished Powerlifter. He has Squatted just under 900 pounds! You want to learn about strength? Um…Dave might be able to pass on a thing or two. Put his name in the search engine and start reading.
And on top of that he has trained, or helped train many others who have gone on to win trophy’s in the sport of Powerlifting. That would be strength training…right?
Oh, I agree, I don’t think you have had to train some of the top Powerlifters in the nation in order to help the average Joe get stronger. I’m not trying to whip a dead horse but you are the one who called Pavel “one of the best strength coaches in the nation.” And as we can see he is clearly not! Does that mean that you can’t learn something from him? Not at all. It just means that there are better sources available to us than Pavel, and might I add that they are FREE! Very much unlike Pavels material.
As I stated, if it works for you great! But, there is a feeling that we all have as consumers. You know that feeling: you just don’t want to feel like you are being taken. And it’s not just about money. Here at T-Nation we get superior articles on strength training, muscle building etc. and did I mention that it’s FREE?
[quote]I just see Pavel’s methods as some greats ways to train. I think the poster would benefit greatly from it, and as mentioned before, most people use a cycle for around three weeks, then resume a normal PL cycle, so its not like he couldnt use the T-Nation authors right after a short PTP cycle.
[/quote]
I certainly agree, he could do that. However, if it were me I would simply log onto T-Nation and hit the search engine. There the original poster could find a large number of articles which deal directly with strength.
Yes, to each his own, but I would always recommend that someone get the best possible advice available.
Here are just a few articles to further demonstrate my point:
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-071-training
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-129-training
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-067-training
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=170top92
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=28cp
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=192push2
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=234vos2
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_115b600
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_101bench
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=181bone2
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=202bompa2
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=309single2
It took me under 3:00 to find and post the above 12 strength related articles. And as you know by now it was FREE!
While I take nothing away from Pavel relative to interesting and unique information. I’ll stick to my oringinal recommendation T-Nation beats Pavel hands down!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Lol. Never underestimate those “secret Russian tricks”…
Simply squeeze your sphincter and watch the fun begin! [/quote]
LOL.
Nice posts Zeb. As far as Pavel is concerned, he has some useful things, but is a true capitalist at heart (in contradiction to his "Soviet training secrets, of course). He does whatever he has to in order to sell what he has to, and the setup of his books is ridiculous. I read the Naked Warrior- good book, but nothing earth shattering.
I will take Waterbury or Robertson or Tate or DeFranco any day over Pavel. Working with, “Some NFL guys and a SWAT team” does not make him legendary. Hell, I like Mike Mahler alot more than Pavel.
Do a search to find Pavel’s site and watch the free samples of his videos (he’s stupid as hell for putting up free samples).
They are hilarious:
“POWER! . . . TO THE PEOPLE!”
i loved the power to the people method. My deadlift was stuck for a while and i used ptp to add 50lbs. Thats not bad for results.
[quote]peterm533 wrote:
Re Linford Christie
The IAAF website has him at 1.89m and 84kg.
I think that 6.2-6.3 at 185lbs or so is about right.[/quote]
hhahahaha thats what I thought so according to Zeb, Pavel appears more muscular than linford christie? He must be afterall he is shorter and looks atleast 200…
linford pics
http://www.nuff-respect.co.uk/images/linbiog.jpg
http://www.bized.ac.uk/images/christie.jpg
[quote]ZEB wrote:
reconyah wrote:
Common sense? Try to think outside the T-Nation box for a bit. Most of the greatest strength coaches in the world probably dont even speak English, much less post on this site, despite it being a great resource.
First of all, if you need to reread the original post. The poster clearly states that he is trying to decide between “Pavels Power to the People method” or such programs by Westside, Chad Waterbury, Christian Thibaudeau and Charles Poliquin."
If the choice is between Pavel and the others whom he picked I think I pointed him in the proper direction.
Secondly, if you have been a long time reader of this great web site you would already know that T-Nation lives “outside the box.” Do you honestly think that CT and CW agree on everything? And then there is Charles Poliquin. Do you think he lives inside the box? Think again. And there are a host of other outstanding Coaches affiliated with T-Nation.
This really is a great place to learn, grow and get better. I’m not putting Pavel down…yet
By that logic, no one should take advice from Dr. Hatfield instead of perhaps somebody who posted an article on T-Nation.
You seem to be the one having the logic problem. Again, please scroll back and reread the original posters question. Hatfield, who I think is a giant in the world of Powerlifting and strength training was not mentioned.
Not that the people here arent qualified, but that doesnt make them more qualified than other experts in the field (and Pavel is one of the best strength coachs in the nation, not just the “T-Nation”.)
I think that’s an interesting statement and one I would like you to back up (if you don’t mind). You call Pavel “one of the best strength coaches in the Nation.” In order to be considered at such a lofty status I think he would have needed to train some world class strength champions. Now maybe I’m not up on the latest Pavel champions list, but I don’t recall him training any world class strength athletes.
To my knowledge (and you Pavel lovers please correct me if I’m wrong, and I’m sure you will) Pavel has not trained any world champion Powerlifters, Worlds Strongest Men competitors or any Olympic Lifting champions. Yet, you consider him “one of the best strength coaches in the Nation” Why?
Keep in mind I am not claiming that he has not had considerable commercial success training “average Joe’s” (like me and you). Do you think that qualifies him to be “one of the best strength coaches in the Nation?” Think again comrade! (I had to say it once)
To answer the original post, I have used Pavel’s methods in strength training and stretching and seen better results than most “conventional” methods. His ways are another way to train, and I think that most serious people should look into his work.
And I have to assume that you (like me) are an average Joe.
The prices are killer though. My advice is to grab a copy of PTP. You can probably get it used from an online site for a good price. If you have any futher interest, I think Beyond Bodybuilding is the greatest text on lifting I have read, and something to definately check out down the road.
Beyond Bodybuilding is a fantastic book we can agree on this.
I can also agree with you on pavel’s PTP’s book being rather expensive. If you take out the advertisements, unnecessary white space on certain pages you have about 70 pages of information. Last time I checked the book was selling for about $35.00. Does seem a bit pricey. But if you are advancing with that information then it’s well worth it, right?
One of the wonderful things about Pavel’s work is that it isnt fluff. It is all solid information, and a lot of it is things you dont normally hear about.
And one of the bad things about his books are that they are loaded with filler. PTP alone had about 17 pages of advertisements! Which by the way is about 15% of the total “claimed” pages in the book.
But, again if the information works for you then it’s all worth it, right?
[/quote]
Im no Pavel disciple or even a fan, but im tired of your old arguments…
You say that to be a world class coach Pavel must have coached world class strength athletes… Who has CW trained? What about CT? What about Poliquin… which world champion powerlifters strongmen and olympic lifters has he trained… you didnt include NFL or field athletes in your list so Boston and that shot putter are out…
Its funny that Siff yes Siff who is against idol worship of gurus and inaccurate and inadequate strength advice as anyone actually said that he liked some of Pavels stuff and that Pavel made some good contributions… Quite the compliment considering who it is from…
yeah the books are expensive and hes a marketing genius, he probably overemphasises kettlebells etc a bit and yes saying comrade every second sentence is annoying…
but your anti Pavel tirade is growing old
your second response was good where you claimed that it is better value and have better access to more authors and text and its free etc…
but you seem to take a shot at him everytime his name is mentioned…
and making stuff up… yes making stuff up about him having to weigh >200 because of his big upper legs and being 6 feet 1 is insane…
seriously open the links to pictures that i posted above…
how tall and what do you weigh by the way? cause you must be very short or a giant to be that obviously unable to guess at someones weight…
having said all that… if relative strength is what you are after id pick Cressey’s brain… Hes got some good and somewhat unigue and interesting thoughts re: higher rep ranges etc which differ quite markedly to a lot of guys including Pavel…
Why all the Pavel hating? It’s ridiculous. I guess that happens to those on top of their game… Whatever.
If anyone is in question of his weight check out the USPF results page where he competed in a deadlift only meet in the 181 class, certainly not the beefed up 200 Zeb insists he is by studying his video clip. His pull at the USPF was something like 440. Then at the AAU push/pull this past October I belive he pulled 463 and just missed a 470 in the 181 class. Not sure what his actual weight was, but if he was around 170-180 and made a 463 raw pull that means he pulled between 2.5-2.7 times his bodyweight. Considering he was pulling a fairly new style (double overhand hook) due to an injury sustained from years of pulling mixed I think he did a damn good job and would expect his numbers to keep climbing.
Also, at least the guy is stepping up and getting on the platform unlike so many of “coaches” out there. What did CW hit in his last meet by the way?
Oh an Zeb, your comment about Pavel making his pull with poor form? His form is a hell of a lot better than a lot of pullers I have seen at a meet where PR’s are falling. When lifters start approaching their comp maxes, form tends to deteriorate. Go check out some clips at irongame and you will see a lot of conventional pullers pulling what looks like a semi-stiff legged rounded back deadlift. Not the safest way to pull, but guess what, it happens.
Funny how many of the big names in the strength business have nothing but respect for Pavel. It’s just the internet know-it-alls that seem to have a problem with him.
I think Pavel getting out and competing is awesome and I can’t wait to see him hit 500 and more.
Just my opinion, but isn’t that what the net is for?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Chris Aus wrote:
Im no Pavel disciple or even a fan, but im tired of your old arguments…[/quote]
Sorry Chris didn’t mean to make you tired. But some arguments just won’t go away because you are tired of them. T-Nation is a better resource for someone trying to gain strength than Pavel is, in my opinion. And T-Nation is free! (I wanted to mention that right off …)
You say that to be a world class coach Pavel must have coached world class strength athletes.
Now Chirs you will have to wake up and pay better attention to the thread if you are going to dive in here with sort of an attitude. reconyah stated: “Pavel is one of the best strength coache’s in the nation…”
I then challeneged him to back that statement up. Now how does one prove that someone is “one of the best strength coache’s in the nation?” Can you do it by kettlebell sales? Noooo. Can you do it by calling people “Comrade?” Nooooo. Can you do it by publishing pricey books with lot’s of very large photos and plenty of white space? Noooo.
There has to be some criteria. When the topic is Coaching, you must produce a list of champions who have been trained in the field of strength. And so far, including you, no one has stepped up to the plate and given me that list. I am suggesting at this point that such a list does not exist. If that is the case then Pavel is NOT “one of the best strength coaches in the nation.”
After all if there is no criteria to be “one of the best strength coache’s in the nation” then anyone can be proclaimed with such a title. Can you call anyone in any field “one of the best in the nation” without some sort of verifiable proof?
That does not make him a bad coach either. If he has helped lots of people then he is a good coach. But it’s quite a stretch to call him “One of the best in the nation.”
Don’t you agree?
Again, you have to pay better attention. When the topic of strength came up I mentioned Dave Tate specifically (go back and check). As you know Dave is a “Westside graduate.” And Dave has trained plenty of lifters who have won trophy’s (that would be in the field of strength). Now that does not make Dave “one of the best coache’s in the nation.” But then again I never stated that he was. I only stated that he (and the many other quality coaches at T-Nation) would be better than Pavel.
I wonder what thread you have been reading?
I said the following things about Pavel in my posts:
-
“He has had considerable succes.”
-
“If you (the poster) are advancing using (Pavels) information then it (the book) is well worth it.”
-
“I am not claiming that Pavel is inferior.”
-
“There is no question that you can be a legitimate strength coach and not train a world champion.”
-
“I take nothing away from Pavel relative to interesting and unique information.”
It looks to me like I am agreeing with Mel Siff. Now don’t jump to conclusions and think that I am putting myself on his level. You seem to jump before you post, so I don’t want you to make that mistake.
Hey you sound like you are anti-Pavel! I am sooo tired of people being anti- Pavel.
Wait…I jumped to conclusions huh?
but your anti Pavel tirade is growing old
I think you just said more against Pavel in the previous paragraph than I did in all of my posts. Isn’t that ironic?
I simply made a recommendation which the original poster asked for. Go back and read the original post to this thread. Basically: “Pavel or T-Nation?” Now which way do you think the poster should go?
I strongly recommend T-Nation for the reasons given in my previous thread. How can one good man be better than all of the good men associated with T-Nation…and it’s FREE!
Understand yet?
One more time:
Pavel does not have to be a bad guy in order for something else to be better!
(But we can both make fun of him for calling everyone comrade right? I mean you just did it so it’s okay…right?)
Aha! You are paying attention!
I think he is heavy on the marketing. You just agreed a few lines back “Comrade.”
There you go again, not paying attention to my posts (what am I going to do with you?
My posts related to his weight were posts where I was asking, not sure about his body frame.
Let me give you some quotes off the original posts. You must have missed them:
“Correct me if I’m wrong.”
“I was under the impression that he is 6’ 1”
“Again I’m only guessing at his height… and weight too for that matter.”
Now does that look like I’m “making stuff up?” No of course not…Why are you making stuff up about me making stuff up? Oh never mind…
I thank you for those links.
You guessed it, I’m a short giant.
I guess I’m just not as good as you are at detrmining peoples exact height and weight from a photo on the Internet.
Yes, you did say all of that! I paid attention!
Now you surprised me!
After your inane and error filled post chastising me for things that I did not do you recommend Eric Cressey, a T-Nation contributor!
You “comrade” are going to be reported to the party for disloyalty under fire!
Oh…and for not paying attention to others posts.
[quote]powerlifter_613 wrote:
Why all the Pavel hating? It’s ridiculous. I guess that happens to those on top of their game… Whatever.
If anyone is in question of his weight check out the USPF results page where he competed in a deadlift only meet in the 181 class, certainly not the beefed up 200 Zeb insists he is by studying his video clip.[/quote]
Go back on this thread and show me where I “insist” regarding his weight. My comment:
“IF the guy is 6’ 1” there is no way he weighs less than 200lbs."
Hardly insisting huh?
I was asking about his weight. And in fact wanted someone to “correct me if I’m wrong.”
Why not ask what Dave Tate hit in his last meet? He too is a T-Nation contributor. And he is a Coach that I pointed out who could give better strength training advice than Pavel.
Are you a Chad Waterbury hater?
My comment?
Let me give you a piece of friendly advice: Read, think and then post!
Here you go reading “comprehension impaired man”:
Black Thorn
11/24/05
11:46 AM
Sorry for stealing the thread, but is that good technique for a dead? he seems to round his back. btw, can anyone aproximate what weight he is using? Thanks, Vlad
firebug9
11/24/05
01:15 PM
Texas, USA
No - that is not good technique for the deadlift - good thing his back is strong. If I am seeing the weight correctly it is about 407 - 440 lbs or 185 - 200 kg. I am not sure if that is a 10 kg plate and then a 2.5 or 5 kg. It is hard to tell from that angle.
ZEB
11/24/05
02:23 PM
According to what you the two previous posters have stated Pavel who weighs about 200lbs. is Deadlifting about double body weight in poor form.
Do I have that right? If not someone please correct me as I don’t want to slight the Evil Russian.
Don’t take my word for it. Go back and see for yourself. If you were not actually believing this stuff it would be funny…sort of.
I think most people have a problem with the marketing hype. And that is really all I have stated on this thread. I do have a big problem with people like you who refuse to actually read a thread before commenting.
Does that qualify you as an “Internet know it all?”
[quote]Just my opinion, but isn’t that what the net is for?
[/quote]
I have not quite figured out what “the net is for (exactly).” But I’m not fond of it when it’s used to misquote my comments.
Now go back and reread the entire thread. I’m giving you homework. LOL
Donde esta Strawman?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Sorry Chris didn’t mean to make you tired. But some arguments just won’t go away because you are tired of them. T-Nation is a better resource for someone trying to gain strength than Pavel is, in my opinion. And T-Nation is free! (I wanted to mention that right off …)
You say that to be a world class coach Pavel must have coached world class strength athletes.
Now Chirs you will have to wake up and pay better attention to the thread if you are going to dive in here with sort of an attitude. reconyah stated: “Pavel is one of the best strength coache’s in the nation…”
I then challeneged him to back that statement up. Now how does one prove that someone is “one of the best strength coache’s in the nation?” Can you do it by kettlebell sales? Noooo. Can you do it by calling people “Comrade?” Nooooo. Can you do it by publishing pricey books with lot’s of very large photos and plenty of white space? Noooo.
There has to be some criteria. When the topic is Coaching, you must produce a list of champions who have been trained in the field of strength. And so far, including you, no one has stepped up to the plate and given me that list. I am suggesting at this point that such a list does not exist. If that is the case then Pavel is NOT “one of the best strength coaches in the nation.”
After all if there is no criteria to be “one of the best strength coache’s in the nation” then anyone can be proclaimed with such a title. Can you call anyone in any field “one of the best in the nation” without some sort of verifiable proof?
That does not make him a bad coach either. If he has helped lots of people then he is a good coach. But it’s quite a stretch to call him “One of the best in the nation.”
Don’t you agree?
[/quote]
I never stated that he was one of the best strength coaches in the ‘nation’… Many consider Poliquin to be though and hes not done any of those things to my knowledge.
Was Siff one of the nations best strength coaches? Who did he train??? Or is he just a strength researcher?
[quote]again, you have to pay better attention. When the topic of strength came up I mentioned Dave Tate specifically (go back and check). As you know Dave is a “Westside graduate.” And Dave has trained plenty of lifters who have won trophy’s (that would be in the field of strength). Now that does not make Dave “one of the best coache’s in the nation.” But then again I never stated that he was. I only stated that he (and the many other quality coaches at T-Nation) would be better than Pavel.
[/quote]
who has Tate trained exactly? Most of the westside guys are trained by Louie Simmons…
State for certain which ones that were trained by Tate and NOT Simmons please…
[quote]I wonder what thread you have been reading?
I said the following things about Pavel in my posts:
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“He has had considerable succes.”
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“If you (the poster) are advancing using (Pavels) information then it (the book) is well worth it.”
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“I am not claiming that Pavel is inferior.”
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“There is no question that you can be a legitimate strength coach and not train a world champion.”
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“I take nothing away from Pavel relative to interesting and unique information.”
It looks to me like I am agreeing with Mel Siff. Now don’t jump to conclusions and think that I am putting myself on his level. You seem to jump before you post, so I don’t want you to make that mistake.
[/quote]
Which thread have I been reading? Which thread have you been reading… I stated at the start that it was more in response to your continual and tiring attacks… So no some of what im saying doesnt apply to what you stated in this thread but your general comments about him on other threads too.
[quote]Hey you sound like you are anti-Pavel! I am sooo tired of people being anti- Pavel.
Wait…I jumped to conclusions huh?
but your anti Pavel tirade is growing old
I think you just said more against Pavel in the previous paragraph than I did in all of my posts. Isn’t that ironic?
I simply made a recommendation which the original poster asked for. Go back and read the original post to this thread. Basically: “Pavel or T-Nation?” Now which way do you think the poster should go?
I strongly recommend T-Nation for the reasons given in my previous thread. How can one good man be better than all of the good men associated with T-Nation…and it’s FREE!
Understand yet?
One more time:
Pavel does not have to be a bad guy in order for something else to be better!
(But we can both make fun of him for calling everyone comrade right? I mean you just did it so it’s okay…right?)
[/quote]
Funny how you are all for paying top dollar for supplements but not information… isnt that ironic…
Dont try to pretend thats your only beef.
[quote]There you go again, not paying attention to my posts (what am I going to do with you?
My posts related to his weight were posts where I was asking, not sure about his body frame.
Let me give you some quotes off the original posts. You must have missed them:
“Correct me if I’m wrong.”
“I was under the impression that he is 6’ 1”
“Again I’m only guessing at his height… and weight too for that matter.”
Now does that look like I’m “making stuff up?” No of course not…Why are you making stuff up about me making stuff up? Oh never mind…[/quote]
Someone even stated that they new his weight and you attempted to discredit it because of a video and implied his upper legs were big… Do you really think they are ‘big’ have you seen muscular upper legs?
Seriously when someone claims to know something for certain and you discredit it and say they need to provide a link because your eyes tell you they must weigh 200 i would consider that making stuff up… or atleast lying to yourself… Check the pics
“I was under the impression that he is 6’ 1. If that is the case then he must weigh around 200lbs.”
“According to what you the two previous posters have stated Pavel who weighs about 200lbs. is Deadlifting about double body weight in poor form.”
“If the guy is 6’ 1” there is no way he weighs less than 200lbs. Take a good look at his upper legs. Again, height is most of it."
Yeah he is 6’1 and he DOESNT WEIGH 200 which is impossible according to you…
are the people in the pics roughly pavels size? remember they weigh between 168 and 185 and are taller than pavel
no its that you imposed your visual impression off a short video as fact over what some people stated they knew…
[quote]Now you surprised me!
After your inane and error filled post chastising me for things that I did not do you recommend Eric Cressey, a T-Nation contributor!
You “comrade” are going to be reported to the party for disloyalty under fire!
Oh…and for not paying attention to others posts.
[/quote]
Dude as i stated earlier I dont even like pavel that much… but you stating that you know his weight from a video is just stupid…
and yeah cressey is fucking awesome…
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Go back on this thread and show me where I “insist” regarding his weight. My comment:
“IF the guy is 6’ 1” there is no way he weighs less than 200lbs."
Hardly insisting huh?
I was asking about his weight. And in fact wanted someone to “correct me if I’m wrong.”
[/quote]
Thats definetly insisting… its insisting when you state 3 times and imply it once despite other people disagreeing with you…
If he is 6’1 then in your opinion he MUST weigh 200
Im more of a simmons fan but i like Tate too, but keep in mind when taking his advise that he can also barely walk and through his training has royally fucked up his body…
didnt see that implied… what thread have you been reading? haha had to do it
[quote]
ZEB
11/24/05
02:23 PM
According to what you the two previous posters have stated Pavel who weighs about 200lbs. is Deadlifting about double body weight in poor form.
Do I have that right? If not someone please correct me as I don’t want to slight the Evil Russian. :)[/quote]
Yeah he was wrong about that… I have to ask though, are you incapable of determining what a good deadlift is for yourself?
[quote]I think most people have a problem with the marketing hype. And that is really all I have stated on this thread. I do have a big problem with people like you who refuse to actually read a thread before commenting.
Does that qualify you as an “Internet know it all?” [/quote]
possibly he like i was quilty of reading too much and has read one of your many other critiques of him including his training etc… because high frequency low fatigue training and greasing the groove cant work, i mean afterall you did 42 dead hang chin ups…
I wasnt aware that i could only bring up things in this thread or i would brake some internet etiquette
[quote]Chris Aus wrote:
I never stated that he was one of the best strength coaches in the ‘nation’…[/quote]
You are doing it again Chirs (reading comp is not one of your strong suits-Ah so what I bet you can lift heavy kettlebells).
You have to pay attention to what is actually written on the screen (forgive my tone but at this point you have it coming).
Ironically, I was reminding you then that you were not paying attention. This is exactly what I wrote in my last post to you:
"Now Chirs you will have to wake up and pay better attention to the thread if you are going to dive in here with sort of an attitude. reconyah stated: “Pavel is one of the best strength coache’s in the nation…”
See? I never said that YOU stated Pavel was one of the best strength coache’s in the nation.
Are we clear on that one? Will come up again on yet another of your absurd posts?
I never stated that Siff was one of the best strength coache’s in the nation. Therefore, I feel no need to defend him as such. In fact I never stated that any one particular coach was “one of the greatest strength coache’s in the nation.”
[quote]who has Tate trained exactly? Most of the westside guys are trained by Louie Simmons…
State for certain which ones that were trained by Tate and NOT Simmons please…[/quote]
I thought that was a fair question and you made me curious, so I called Elite and asked. A gentleman by the name of Jim Wendler (I hope I spelled it properly) answered the phone. He was kind enough to point out that Dave Tate “had a hand in training just about every single champion who came from Westside” (during the years that he was there). My sense from the conversation was that some he spent a great deal of time with and some not as much.
That by the way included Mr. Wendler himself who happens to squat 1000lbs. and Bench Press 675lbs. And needless to say has won many championships!
Does that make Dave Tate “one of the best strength coache’s in the nation?” I don’t know, but it puts him much further up the line in credibility as he actually has many trainees walking around who have won championships in major events.
The phone number for Elite is 1-888-854-8806. Please call and ask yourself if you doubt my word.
No one should ever doubt that Dave Tate is not only tremendously strong, but has helped many, many others to achieve record breaking lifts at a world class level!
You have checked this thread and find no daming words against your hero and now you want to expand your comments to include other threads.
Hmm, well I’m sure somewhere along the line I attacked Pavel for his hype, who hasn’t? How many times can you listen to “comrade” before you just have to speak up? You even admitted that yourself (and I am going to turn you into the party for that:). Why don’t you use the search engine and see if you can come up with something else.
You have that wrong (again). What my point is is that I am NOT for paying top dollar when you can get BETTER information for free. That’s why I recommended to the original poster to go with T-Nation over Pavel. Is that pretty clear?
No where did I state that I would not pay top dollar for quality information. And in fact I have a library of strength and training books which attest to the fact that I will pay top dollar.
There you go again, not paying attention to my posts (what am I going to do with you Chris?
“Someone” on an Internet message board stated something and it can’t be questioned? I don’t know if you have noticed this or not Chris, but much of what you read on the message boards in general is …well let’s say less than reliable.
And as far as the leg comment goes, most would think that I was paying Pavel a compliment. But you don’t seem satisfied when I do that. You don’t want me attacking him (for his marketing) and you don’t want me complimenting him.
You just have to make up your mind Chirs!
When “someone claims to know something.” On a message board…(If this keeps up I’m going to have to ask your age)LOL
A photo on the Internet…Chris you are starting to become a joke.
(Please someone tell me he is kidding…)
Well you see Chris someone on a tiny photo on the Internet who might weigh 195lbs. could very much look like they weigh 180lbs. And vice versa…
(Smiling) You see Chris tiny photo’s on the Interent do not give us a very reliable standard in which to determine weight and height.
(Someone shoot me for continuing this conversation-Just make it fast one shot in the head)
And I will say again for you, I did not “know” his height and weight. I was guessing and asking for correction.
Let me give you some quotes (again) off the original posts which you claim you read, but for some reason did not undersand:
“Correct me if I’m wrong.”
“I was under the impression that he is 6’ 1”
“Again I’m only guessing at his height… and weight too for that matter.”
See that? You are wrong again! You need to quit while you are way way behind.
And Chris as far as you “not liking Pavel” well I think your cover has been blown comrade. Now get your butt over to pavel’s web site I think they are missing you…
[quote]Chris Aus wrote:
Im more of a simmons fan but i like Tate too, but keep in mind when taking his advise that he can also barely walk and through his training has royally fucked up his body…[/quote]
Close your eyes Chris. No seriously do that right now. Close your eyes…
(How can he read the screen you guys are thinking…What makes you think he has been reading the screen up to now?)
Think back now Chris (Chris goes into kung Fu dream sequence). Think way way back (dream music is playing). What exactly did the original poster ask?
Keep those eyes closed now!
He wanted to know which would be better didn’t he? Keep your eyes closed now and try to remember.
Okay OPEN UP YOUR EYES!
Read the original posters question:
[quote]Training for strenth. Is Pavel’s Power to the People method good to follow.
Eg. 5 Days a week, 3 lifts per day - horizontal pushing variation, horizontal pulling variation, and deadlift variation, using wave loading parameters, cycle lasts between 8 and 16 weeks. Second cycle after first complete using vertical pushing variation, horizontal pulling variation, and deadlift variation.
Or would I be better to follow conjugated periodization, and such programs by Westside, Chad Watrbury, Christian Thibaude and Charles Polquin?
Would appreciate some opinions.
Thanks. [/quote]
Now trying to help the poster make his decision I suggested that he come right over here to T-Nation. Here he would not only have access to Dave Tates great strength articles. But he could also have information about every sort of way to train including ways to keep your body from getting all messed up.
U n d e r s t a n d ?
[quote]ZEB
11/24/05
02:23 PM
According to what you the two previous posters have stated Pavel who weighs about 200lbs. is Deadlifting about double body weight in poor form.
Do I have that right? If not someone please correct me as I don’t want to slight the Evil Russian.
Yeah he was wrong about that… I have to ask though, are you incapable of determining what a good deadlift is for yourself?[/quote]
Now why couldn’t you just let it go without having to try to insult me? You know that never works out when you try to do that.
He was wrong and you are wrong. You can’t just say that can you?
Can I determine a good Deadlift? Why yes Chris I think I can. But I was quoting someone else’s opinion at the time. Have you ever done that Chris?
[quote]possibly he like i was quilty of reading too much
[/quote]
Thank you Chris! Yes you and he were both guilty of reading to much into my comments. True, now let it go at that.
You can bring up things anytime you want! And if you have any other questions for me I’ll be right here. I’m only a click away.
I’ll be sitting here waiting for the next Pavel thread to come up so that I can jump all over him…err at least in your mind
whoa this got stupid.
Who the fuck cares, do what works for you.