Too Much Whining at T-Nation!

Here was my first post to the article:

[quote]I understand that this article is not meant for me - my goals are different, as are most of the women on this site, I’m guessing. I did take away some interesting points, like targeting the right areas and avoiding too much ab work. I do have several questions and points to make.

The pictures of Jamie and Jessica show relatively lean girls with hardly any upper body muscle mass. They look “hawt” thanks to their parents and the luck of the draw. I don’t believe any training program is going to turn an ordinary girl into one of them. Do you have any client success stories with this program?

I also don’t believe they are 14% bodyfat - shouldn’t they have some sort of muscular definition at that level of leanness? Granted there isn’t much muscle to begin with, but I don’t see any definition in their pics. Not to nitpick, but I constantly see women underestimating bf% and would love to see some good examples of different percentages.

How can any woman on a calorie restricted diet build any appreciable muscle mass? Maybe some newbie gains, but enough to actually look like “too much”?? The few women I’ve seen with legs that are truly large with muscle have busted their butts with heavy lifting for years to get that way (and are damn proud of it - rightfully so). Most women whose legs are too big have too much fat on them.

I thought that when trying to lose fat it was best to lift with low reps and heavy weight to help keep the muscle you have. Again, operating at a calorie deficit, this would encourage the body to keep the muscle and lose the fat. Why these very high rep schemes?

As a woman who has transformed her physique over the last 2 years using all of the great information found here like lifting heavy and eating clean, I simply do not share the same experiences discussed in the article. All the great compound lifts have done amazing things for my shape. The enjoyment I get from lifting heavy and making progress in the gym is equal to or greater than the satisfaction I get from being able to wear a pair of daisy duke shorts.

As a trainer with a direct influence on the clients you train and an indirect influence on the larger community with the articles you write, perhaps you should reconsider the message you are sending out about women and female body image. It seems to me that you are buying into and perpetuating the false, unattainable Hollywood image and encouraging your clients to do the same. Why not encourage women to build their entire body and get stronger? They certainly don’t need to take it beyond whatever level they personally prefer - but the health benefits and confidence that comes from making gains in the gym should not be glossed over. I suspect many women don’t even realize this, what a wonderful thing to be able to teach.

It actually makes me a little sad to read this article here. This is one place where women can come together to talk training and not have to feel weird for wanting to build our bodies and get strong. Not all the guys get it, but a lot of them do.

Finally, just maybe this could have been one article where there wasn’t a scantily clad, suggestively posed bimbo in the first few paragraphs. There actually are great pictures of athletic, attractive women that don’t fall in the cheese-porn category and an article meant for women would have been a nice place to put one. [/quote]

I stand by what I wrote. I acknowledged the article wasn’t for me, made some observations and asked some questions (that weren’t answered).

I am done.

So disagreeing, discussion and exchanging opinions about ideas is whining?

Some people just need to grow a pair and suck it up.

If you have a problem with something attack it right then and there.

Don’t come circle around and with generalized opinions outside a specific discussion…it makes you look like a whiner!

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
bkgallo wrote:
Yes, you’re right. Forgive me for not including specifics.

I won’t “call out” everyone, but some notable examples are Professor X’s seemingly condescending responses to so many of the skinny-newbie posts,

I agree. And I refuse to spend my time arguing my opinion. [/quote]

Uggghh…

So the next thread that comes up with a 15 year old asking for advice on cutting, we’ll be sure to point him to the Velocity Diet? Or should we just say it nicely that he’s an idiot?

This has been tread over a million times. The fact that these guys get run out is a good thing. Have you ever looked at other bodybuilding forums? Ive seen people tell 14 year old fat kids that they have good “Size on their arms” and blah blah blah.

If you get a good review on here, then you know you did a good job. If you don’t like it then fuck off…or don’t post pictures!

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Don’t come circle around and with generalized opinions outside a specific discussion…it makes you look like a whiner![/quote]

Are you talking about the people pissing their pants because somebody told their skinny asses to eat more?

Poke, poke.

if you put up a post and someone rags on you suck it up, sticks and stones,who cares ignore it such is life

[quote]vroom wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Don’t come circle around and with generalized opinions outside a specific discussion…it makes you look like a whiner!

Are you talking about the people pissing their pants because somebody told their skinny asses to eat more?

Poke, poke.[/quote]

confused ???

I don’t mind the posts people make. I have the freedom to ignore posts I don’t want to read. Sometimes hearing why someone disagrees with an article is interesting if they have a decent reason. And as for as ripping the skinny guys who post pics after their “bulking”…those guys really need a reality check. Even through the B.S. there is so much great information on this site I feel I can’t complain.

There is such a thing as constructive criticism, and there is nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand there are brutal attacks here that serve no purpose but to degrade and deface the poster, and at the same time promote the persona of the person insulting.

You may find that constructively criticising someone and at the same time providing advice for improvement goes a lot further than simply flat out insulting and degrading them while promoting one’s superiority.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
There is such a thing as constructive criticism, and there is nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand there are brutal attacks here that serve no purpose but to degrade and deface the poster, and at the same time promote the persona of the person insulting.

You may find that constructively criticising someone and at the same time providing advice for improvement goes a lot further than simply flat out insulting and degrading them while promoting one’s superiority. [/quote]

Some people have to put others down to feel good about themselves.

I think it is up to the T-Nation member to at least search the site for information. Some of the posters who are new have not even taken the time to read what’s on here and I think that is what frustrates people. Most of them have worked out for a month and want some undeserved positive feedback.

I don’t feel bad for what is said to them. For others that are more sincere…they will find what they need no matter what people say. Most newbies want “ripped abs” but are afraid to get “too big.” This just doesn’t seem to be the site to support that kind of post.

Can I get some cheese with this whine?

I disagree. There is not to much whining, there is far to much bs posting.

Instead of bashing the ‘whiners’ why not bash the 50th person to ask about ZMA? What about the 11% newbie who wants to get down to 8 before bulking?

What has happened here is so many come on read a program or article and consider themselves experts. They can’t even see that the article was written really for a select few. They have no basic comprehension of weightlifting or muscle function.

As soon as they get a response they don’t like they get bitchy, then it really starts. Listen, to anyone who has lifted for any length of time, you can spot someone who clearly needs to be smacked. When a newbie is more concerned with taking supps than eating or lifting, it’s time to be addressed. I’m sorry if that person doesn’t like it, but that is the best info for that person.

When people are talking about muscular genetic structure and sarcoplasmatic(?) responses, then in the next breath asks about his 2000 cal a day diet–smack time. Maybe we shouldn’t respond, but in the long run though not the most tactful, it is the most useful.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
There is such a thing as constructive criticism, and there is nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand there are brutal attacks here that serve no purpose but to degrade and deface the poster, and at the same time promote the persona of the person insulting.

You may find that constructively criticising someone and at the same time providing advice for improvement goes a lot further than simply flat out insulting and degrading them while promoting one’s superiority. [/quote]

boo hoo

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
What has happened here is so many come on read a program or article and consider themselves experts. They can’t even see that the article was written really for a select few. They have no basic comprehension of weightlifting or muscle function.

[/quote]

This is the biggest problem I see.

Although I’ve been weight training for over a decade, I just came to this site about 1.5 years ago, which isn’t that long compared to some people on here.

Within that timeframe, I have seen a ton of people come on here as complete newbies who know absolute shit, and then within a couple months I see them dishing out advice and comments to anyone who will listen.

I’m all about being open to other peoples advice/experiences, but crap like that makes me hesitant about who I even listen to on here.

We need to pet and coddle them like a mommy does, then maybe they will feel better about how people post.

Whaaaaaaaa.

Rock,

I was using your comment to poke at someone (not you) doing a lot of whining in this thread…

I think somebody wasn’t given the obligatory “winner” ribbon when he finished last.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Rock,

I was using your comment to poke at someone (not you) doing a lot of whining in this thread…

I think somebody wasn’t given the obligatory “winner” ribbon when he finished last.[/quote]

10-4 Good Canadian Buddy. Yeah I did not think it was directed at me, but did not know the details like you do.

Dear lord, there are women on this site with bigger balls than some of the “men” in this thread.

Whining involves complaining about a situation while offering no alternatives or solutions to a perceived problem, essentially doing nothing about it. Whining is NOT discussing an article or debating a topic.

Whining is NOT pointing out that an author of an article did the very activity they are now writing an article against and the act of doing that activity is more than likely the very reason they have seen the success they have to the degree they have physically.

Whining is making a thread crying about how your feelings got hurt. Whining is typing, “I agree” in favor of that thread because someone called you out about your “intensity” in the gym while discussing Brittany Spears’ ab workout. Whining is to then throw a hissy fit and make an all new thread about talking in the gym, realizing that most people on this site are IN FAVOR of not randomly talking about shit in the gym, and then backing down on your original stance (pussy).

Whining is trying to turn this site into some watered down version of what it was to begin with by getting rid of any sign of its name-sake.

Quit crying.

If anybody has young children then they know what I’m talking about when I hear my own whine on and on because they didn’t get the toy they wanted at the store. That is the kind of whining I’m talking about.

And whether that be writing post after post of saying some article should not have been printed, or repeatedly arguing that some definition was unclear or incorrect, or that continuing to say skinny-ass newbies need to stop posting such dumbass questions (and the reverse of repeatedly asking how anybody could say such things) WITHOUT SAYING ANYTHING NEW OR DIFFERENT is, to me, plain old whining.

I can understand how newbies can fall into that crap, though I don’t agree with it. But lately I’m seeing more often that regular, long-time members are also falling into that crap. Good God, are these T-free newbies starting to suck the T out of everyone else through some internet osmosis?