Enjoyed reading this. Good luck, Carl. I do Crossfit and so I mess around with some O-lifts now and then. My OH squat is pathetic. But the lifts are a lot of fun trying to teach my body the form. After 3 months I can do a lame push jerk. But, at least it’s not a push press. Amazing the power you can generate when the form is good.
Hi Carl,
Congratulations. Yours is the first new thread I have read or posted on in months because I’ve been so stuck in my head (or up my ass some might say). I am thrilled to see you going after that Master’s OL record. That was my goal last year, the C@J record in same age group in the supers (140). I was getting close but life got in the way.
I envy your flexibility...such ease dropping down. Nice speed too.
I was self taught mostly too but I did get to lift and throw with some of the greats in my day. Guys like Joe Dube and Ken Patera...the first one taught me to do tons of speed work and technique drills, and the second one taught me to become monster strong while not losing your quickness. I'll keep an eye on your progress and will be rooting for you. I've given up throwing for life but I might just get that OL bug back.
Doc
Well doc, I’m glad you are out of wherever it was that you were. Thanks for taking a look at this. I have read much of your thread, and was wondering if you would ever start throwing again. I’m sorry to hear you have given it up.
Joe Dube is still active in weightlifting, posting from time to time on the goheavy forum. I don’t think he competes anymore, but I could be wrong on that. If you do start competitive weightlifting again, maybe we will run into each other somewhere.
[quote]skw wrote:
Enjoyed reading this. Good luck, Carl. I do Crossfit and so I mess around with some O-lifts now and then. My OH squat is pathetic. But the lifts are a lot of fun trying to teach my body the form. After 3 months I can do a lame push jerk. But, at least it’s not a push press. Amazing the power you can generate when the form is good.[/quote]
Thank you. I never did OH squats, except for standing up with snatches until about five years ago. I very rarely work them now. Anything more than one rep is hard.
Snatches from yesterday…maybe
10/7
Cleans: 62.5/3, 75/3, 87.5/3, (94/3)4
Rack Jerks: 62.5/3, 75/3, 87.5/3, (94/3)4
Front Squats: 95/5, (101/5)4
Presses: 40/5, 48/5, 56/5, (60/5)4
Clean Dead Lifts: (120/5)4
Bent Rows: (70/5)3 (forgot I had those muscles, the ones that are feeling real strange now)
Time: 87 min
This one killed me. No particular set was that hard, but the volume wore me out.
Front squats from today, trying to spread the pain around.
[quote]Carl Darby wrote:
Front squats from today, trying to spread the pain around.[/quote]
Nice set. You look as fast on the last rep as the first.
Thanks. It always portends well for the rest of the cycle when squats are easy this week.
I have a meeting on Friday during my normal workout time, so I’m trying to move the rest day this week back to Friday. With the high volume stuff that’s a bit uncertain.
10/8
Snatch: 52/3, 63/3, 74/3, (80/3)4
Back Squat: 70/5, 84/5, 98/5, (105/5)4
Bench: 50/5, 60/5, 70/5, (75/5)4
Snatch Dead Lifts: (100/5)4
Pullups: (BW/4)3
Time: 57 min
Skipping my normal rest day had my technique a little shaky. Snatches were easy enough, but a few ended up far enough out front that if they had been 100kg instead of 80kg lifts, I wouldn’t have been able to save them.
10/9
Clean and Jerk: 62.5/3, 75/3, 87.5/3, (94/3)4
Front Squats: 95/5, (101/5)4
Presses: 40/5, 48/5, 56/5, (60/5)4
Clean High Pulls: (107/5)4
Bent Rows: 70/5, (75/5)2
Time: 72 min
A little sluggish, but everything got done. Video of clean and jerks later.
Today’s last set of jerks. I need to keep my shoulders further forward relative to the bar during the second pull.
Carl, you seem to catch the clean and then sink all the way into the squat. Is that to get a rebound? I’m learning a great deal from your videos. Great stuff. Could you loan me some bumper plates? I just want to drop the weights once.
You are right, that’s what is happening. As to why, it’s not intentional. Part of the reason is that the weight is still pretty light, so I’m catching it high, but its too heavy to stop it where I catch it, so I squat down.
Part of the reason is its a bad habit I’m trying to break. A smoother, more rapid descent would give me a better rebound out of the bottom. I’m more successful avoiding the pause with heavier weights than with light weights.
Once in a long while (every year or so), I go down to Las Vegas to train for a week with Val Balison, who used to lift for the USA in the 1980s and 1990s. He pointed out that same thing to me last time we lifted together.
Yeah, dropping the weights is fun.
I never had great C@J form, but I have studied the greats alot. I left the sport for many years, and when I came back into it I noticed some trends of technique that changed from the days of Rigert and Alexiev. For example, you see many top lifter jerking with a very wide grip, some even spread out to a snatch width grip. This seemed stange to me, but I slipped my hands out a bit and found jerks easier recently.
Another change I saw was that some lifters, but by no means all, relied more heavily on leg strength and sat ass low at start position and relied heavily on a quick second pull. Others however still do what I did when I was at my best, have my shoulders out in front, ass a little higher, and rip the bar off the floor with everything you got without losing the mechanics of an integrated second pull.
You seem to start with hips kinda low but I dont see a pronounced second pull. If your leg strength is relatively stronger than your pull strength, that would make sense, but your pull strength looks good. Have you tried bringing your shoulders a bit forward?
Just some thoughts, love watching your vidoes and will post some of mine soon. There is far more to criticize on mine, there is one on my thread of me power cleaning 290 which looks like a slow motion reverse curl.
Keep it going! A well done clean and jerk is to my mind a thing of beauty and the ultimate test of all-around ahtletic strength. Doc
Threw today, shot and weight. It was 27 degrees and snowing when I left my house, 60 degrees and dry when I got to the school where I throw. Here’s one of the better throws.
Edit: Looks like it didn’t show up. I’ll try it again.
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
I never had great C@J form, but I have studied the greats alot. I left the sport for many years, and when I came back into it I noticed some trends of technique that changed from the days of Rigert and Alexiev. For example, you see many top lifter jerking with a very wide grip, some even spread out to a snatch width grip. This seemed stange to me, but I slipped my hands out a bit and found jerks easier recently.
Another change I saw was that some lifters, but by no means all, relied more heavily on leg strength and sat ass low at start position and relied heavily on a quick second pull. Others however still do what I did when I was at my best, have my shoulders out in front, ass a little higher, and rip the bar off the floor with everything you got without losing the mechanics of an integrated second pull.
You seem to start with hips kinda low but I dont see a pronounced second pull. If your leg strength is relatively stronger than your pull strength, that would make sense, but your pull strength looks good. Have you tried bringing your shoulders a bit forward?
Just some thoughts, love watching your vidoes and will post some of mine soon. There is far more to criticize on mine, there is one on my thread of me power cleaning 290 which looks like a slow motion reverse curl.
Keep it going! A well done clean and jerk is to my mind a thing of beauty and the ultimate test of all-around ahtletic strength. Doc[/quote]
Thanks for the analysis Doc. I think Yuri Vardanyan was an extreme example of the earlier technique you mentioned. I remember his back would be almost horizontal at the end of his first pull. I used to try to emulate his style, not very successfully however. A remnant of this is that I tend to pull my shoulders back during the second pull. It is an aspect of the lift I need to improve. Thanks for pointing that out.
I saw that video of your 290 clean. I’d have to study it a bit to verify my first impression, but I remember thinking you needed to focus more on pulling yourself under the bar, rather than pulling the bar up to your shoulders. I look forward to more of your videos.
[quote]Carl Darby wrote:
Dr.PowerClean wrote:
I never had great C@J form, but I have studied the greats alot. I left the sport for many years, and when I came back into it I noticed some trends of technique that changed from the days of Rigert and Alexiev. For example, you see many top lifter jerking with a very wide grip, some even spread out to a snatch width grip. This seemed stange to me, but I slipped my hands out a bit and found jerks easier recently.
Another change I saw was that some lifters, but by no means all, relied more heavily on leg strength and sat ass low at start position and relied heavily on a quick second pull. Others however still do what I did when I was at my best, have my shoulders out in front, ass a little higher, and rip the bar off the floor with everything you got without losing the mechanics of an integrated second pull.
You seem to start with hips kinda low but I dont see a pronounced second pull. If your leg strength is relatively stronger than your pull strength, that would make sense, but your pull strength looks good. Have you tried bringing your shoulders a bit forward?
Just some thoughts, love watching your vidoes and will post some of mine soon. There is far more to criticize on mine, there is one on my thread of me power cleaning 290 which looks like a slow motion reverse curl.
Keep it going! A well done clean and jerk is to my mind a thing of beauty and the ultimate test of all-around ahtletic strength. Doc
Thanks for the analysis Doc. I think Yuri Vardanyan was an extreme example of the earlier technique you mentioned. I remember his back would be almost horizontal at the end of his first pull. I used to try to emulate his style, not very successfully however. A remnant of this is that I tend to pull my shoulders back during the second pull. It is an aspect of the lift I need to improve. Thanks for pointing that out.
I saw that video of your 290 clean. I’d have to study it a bit to verify my first impression, but I remember thinking you needed to focus more on pulling yourself under the bar, rather than pulling the bar up to your shoulders. I look forward to more of your videos.[/quote]
Very true about my cleaning. Racking the bar has become peculiarly difficult for me in my comeback...I often miss heavy lifts that have sufficient pull but I botch the rack, it happened today. Some of this is due to loss of flexibility...you can see in that 290 clean my elbows are relatively low, whereas in the past they used to be much higher...I have big arms, but they were even bigger back in my prime, so I cant blame it on being "musclebound." I just seem to rack much slower now. I think I need alot of volume to retrain my fast twitch fibers as I have been doing mostly powerlifting and bodybuilding the past twenty years! But also I mentally have just been thinking, before each lift, "RACK FAST!". Maybe your idea of pulling myself under the bar is a more useful focus point. I'll try it. thanks. Doc
Second try on the shot video.
A W E S O M E thread!!! Love the videos! Good luck in your quest; will check-in from time-to-time to see how things are going. Again, A w e s o m e!!!