This is the single most important article that will go over most beginners/everyones heads
Ignore this for 8 years, come back to it and realize you’ve been a shithead for not reading it through the first time.
http://www.T-Nation.com/training/overlooked-key-to-muscle-growth
Yes and no. Boyce says it himself - you have to gain a strength base before any of this applies. Seriously, the times I’ve seen beginners focusing on MMC while squatting 95…
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Yes and no. Boyce says it himself - you have to gain a strength base before any of this applies. Seriously, the times I’ve seen beginners focusing on MMC while squatting 95…[/quote]
Not nearly as common as beginners squatting(knee-bending) 225 or 315. At least I’m not constantly worried that some idiot is about to die 10 feet away from me when hes squatting 95.
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Yes and no. Boyce says it himself - you have to gain a strength base before any of this applies. Seriously, the times I’ve seen beginners focusing on MMC while squatting 95…[/quote]
So the article doesn’t “answer everything” because you need a strength base before using the techniques in the article, even though the article explicitly states (twice) that you need a strength base before using the techniques in the article?
Not sure I see your point. Beginners reading the article would take away different things than advanced lifters (i.e. DON’T use advanced techniques until you’re strong), but I’m assuming this is what the OP here meant.
[quote]The-German wrote:
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Yes and no. Boyce says it himself - you have to gain a strength base before any of this applies. Seriously, the times I’ve seen beginners focusing on MMC while squatting 95…[/quote]
Not nearly as common as beginners squatting(knee-bending) 225 or 315. At least I’m not constantly worried that some idiot is about to die 10 feet away from me when hes squatting 95.[/quote]
Let’S just agree that there are jackasses on both sides of the spectrum.
[quote]craze9 wrote:
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Yes and no. Boyce says it himself - you have to gain a strength base before any of this applies. Seriously, the times I’ve seen beginners focusing on MMC while squatting 95…[/quote]
So the article doesn’t “answer everything” because you need a strength base before using the techniques in the article, even though the article explicitly states (twice) that you need a strength base before using the techniques in the article?
Not sure I see your point. Beginners reading the article would take away different things than advanced lifters (i.e. DON’T use advanced techniques until you’re strong), but I’m assuming this is what the OP here meant.
[/quote]
So you DO get what I meant when I said “yes and no”. 
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Yes and no. Boyce says it himself - you have to gain a strength base before any of this applies. Seriously, the times I’ve seen beginners focusing on MMC while squatting 95…[/quote]
I suggest you re-read, and sit on it for a moment.
And whats wrong with focusing on a 95lbs squat? I use 95lbs on the squat for 80% of my working sets.
[quote]craze9 wrote:
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Yes and no. Boyce says it himself - you have to gain a strength base before any of this applies. Seriously, the times I’ve seen beginners focusing on MMC while squatting 95…[/quote]
So the article doesn’t “answer everything” because you need a strength base before using the techniques in the article, even though the article explicitly states (twice) that you need a strength base before using the techniques in the article?
Not sure I see your point. Beginners reading the article would take away different things than advanced lifters (i.e. DON’T use advanced techniques until you’re strong), but I’m assuming this is what the OP here meant.
[/quote]
The most advanced exercises are the most basic exercises.
A beginner and an expert use virtually the same exercises… just performed differently.
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
This is the single most important article that will go over most beginners/everyones heads
Ignore this for 8 years, come back to it and realize you’ve been a shithead for not reading it through the first time.
http://www.T-Nation.com/training/overlooked-key-to-muscle-growth
[/quote]
I think there are many important factors in muscle growth. I think trying to argue that mind-muscle connection is more important than, say, adequate nutrition or recovery, is extremely short sighted.
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Yes and no. Boyce says it himself - you have to gain a strength base before any of this applies. Seriously, the times I’ve seen beginners focusing on MMC while squatting 95…[/quote]
I suggest you re-read, and sit on it for a moment.
And whats wrong with focusing on a 95lbs squat? I use 95lbs on the squat for 80% of my working sets.[/quote]
Okay, well, maybe I misunderstood your initial point then, if you’re suggesting beginners shouldn’t focus on increasing their squat before repping out at 95 lbs.
My friend who had never lifted before in his life went from an 85x5 squat to a 185x5 squat in one month after I put him on Starting Strength. Should he start repping 95 lbs? Or work his way toward 315x5 (at least) and THEN worry about the techniques described in this article?
Seriously, you squat 95lbs for 80% of your work sets? Are you doing 50-rep sets? Even at 50 reps, wouldn’t a heavier weight be better?
[quote]craze9 wrote:
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Yes and no. Boyce says it himself - you have to gain a strength base before any of this applies. Seriously, the times I’ve seen beginners focusing on MMC while squatting 95…[/quote]
So the article doesn’t “answer everything” because you need a strength base before using the techniques in the article, even though the article explicitly states (twice) that you need a strength base before using the techniques in the article?
Not sure I see your point. Beginners reading the article would take away different things than advanced lifters (i.e. DON’T use advanced techniques until you’re strong), but I’m assuming this is what the OP here meant.
[/quote]
For the sake of discussion, IMO the part about needing a “strength base” is false. What is really needed is progression , and in the case of a beginner, quantifiable progression while he gains experience, hence the focus on numbers. Strength will come with muscle growth.
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
This is the single most important article that will go over most beginners/everyones heads
Ignore this for 8 years, come back to it and realize you’ve been a shithead for not reading it through the first time.
http://www.T-Nation.com/training/overlooked-key-to-muscle-growth
[/quote]
I think there are many important factors in muscle growth. I think trying to argue that mind-muscle connection is more important than, say, adequate nutrition or recovery, is extremely short sighted.
[/quote]
The article itself doesn’t touch upon nutrition, so it would be implied that this thread is based more on the movement realm.
[quote]craze9 wrote:
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Yes and no. Boyce says it himself - you have to gain a strength base before any of this applies. Seriously, the times I’ve seen beginners focusing on MMC while squatting 95…[/quote]
I suggest you re-read, and sit on it for a moment.
And whats wrong with focusing on a 95lbs squat? I use 95lbs on the squat for 80% of my working sets.[/quote]
Okay, well, maybe I misunderstood your initial point then, if you’re suggesting beginners shouldn’t focus on increasing their squat before repping out at 95 lbs.
My friend who had never lifted before in his life went from an 85x5 squat to a 185x5 squat in one month after I put him on Starting Strength. Should he start repping 95 lbs? Or work his way toward 315x5 (at least) and THEN worry about the techniques described in this article?
Seriously, you squat 95lbs for 80% of your work sets? Are you doing 50-rep sets? Even at 50 reps, wouldn’t a heavier weight be better?[/quote]
I rarely rep above 8 reps.
My sets are usually 1 - 6 reps, focused very much on TUT, ROM, pauses, etc
As you might imagine, I do a ton of sets. And as you can also imagine, I get confused looks.
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
This is the single most important article that will go over most beginners/everyones heads
Ignore this for 8 years, come back to it and realize you’ve been a shithead for not reading it through the first time.
http://www.T-Nation.com/training/overlooked-key-to-muscle-growth
[/quote]
I think there are many important factors in muscle growth. I think trying to argue that mind-muscle connection is more important than, say, adequate nutrition or recovery, is extremely short sighted.
[/quote]
The article itself doesn’t touch upon nutrition, so it would be implied that this thread is based more on the movement realm.
[/quote]
So it’s implied that this article is more important than anything else, except for things that aren’t mentioned?
I agree on your premise that this article is important, but the single most important article? I think your hyperbole has got away from you there.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]craze9 wrote:
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Yes and no. Boyce says it himself - you have to gain a strength base before any of this applies. Seriously, the times I’ve seen beginners focusing on MMC while squatting 95…[/quote]
So the article doesn’t “answer everything” because you need a strength base before using the techniques in the article, even though the article explicitly states (twice) that you need a strength base before using the techniques in the article?
Not sure I see your point. Beginners reading the article would take away different things than advanced lifters (i.e. DON’T use advanced techniques until you’re strong), but I’m assuming this is what the OP here meant.
[/quote]
For the sake of discussion, IMO the part about needing a “strength base” is false. What is really needed is progression , and in the case of a beginner, quantifiable progression while he gains experience, hence the focus on numbers. Strength will come with muscle growth.[/quote]
Absolutely. Progression is key, and beginners don’t have the experience to use more subtle types of progression than more weight or more reps. Charles Staley touched on this recently as well:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
For the sake of discussion, IMO the part about needing a “strength base” is false. What is really needed is progression , and in the case of a beginner, quantifiable progression while he gains experience, hence the focus on numbers. Strength will come with muscle growth.[/quote]
I agree that the important thing is progression, and there are different ways of measuring progress. Not sure I agree with the last sentence though, especially for beginners.
Some people (probably MOST people, who are fully untrained) simply aren’t strong enough to do enough work (in terms of intensity / volume) to damage the muscle fibers when they first start lifting. For these people, neural adaptation has to occur before hypertrophy. Which is why a lot of beginners don’t see any gains in the first couple months, and then start growing.
Young male athletes may not experience this (I didn’t experience it myself – I put on 25 lbs in my first 3 months) but untrained people do. My friend is going through it right now – complaining about how his arms haven’t gotten bigger yet, but his upper body strength is terrible (can’t do a single pullup, or dips, etc). He needs to get stronger before he will grow, not the other way around.
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
I rarely rep above 8 reps.
My sets are usually 1 - 6 reps, focused very much on TUT, ROM, pauses, etc
As you might imagine, I do a ton of sets. And as you can also imagine, I get confused looks.
[/quote]
Interesting. How’s that working for you? I assume you have pretty jacked legs. Are you strong also? Do you ever squat heavy?
Dont listen to anything Jarvan says. Ill never forget the thread from a year ago where he insisted I do the exact same thing with German Volume Training - use 95lb. This was a little under a year ago too.
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
[quote]craze9 wrote:
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Yes and no. Boyce says it himself - you have to gain a strength base before any of this applies. Seriously, the times I’ve seen beginners focusing on MMC while squatting 95…[/quote]
I suggest you re-read, and sit on it for a moment.
And whats wrong with focusing on a 95lbs squat? I use 95lbs on the squat for 80% of my working sets.[/quote]
Okay, well, maybe I misunderstood your initial point then, if you’re suggesting beginners shouldn’t focus on increasing their squat before repping out at 95 lbs.
My friend who had never lifted before in his life went from an 85x5 squat to a 185x5 squat in one month after I put him on Starting Strength. Should he start repping 95 lbs? Or work his way toward 315x5 (at least) and THEN worry about the techniques described in this article?
Seriously, you squat 95lbs for 80% of your work sets? Are you doing 50-rep sets? Even at 50 reps, wouldn’t a heavier weight be better?[/quote]
I rarely rep above 8 reps.
My sets are usually 1 - 6 reps, focused very much on TUT, ROM, pauses, etc
As you might imagine, I do a ton of sets. And as you can also imagine, I get confused looks.
[/quote]
Please tell me you have some insane looking legs to back this training methodology of yours. I have not the read the article so I won’t comment past this.
[quote]Aero51 wrote:
Dont listen to anything Jarvan says. Ill never forget the thread from a year ago where he insisted I do the exact same thing with German Volume Training - use 95lb. This was a little under a year ago too.
[/quote]
10x10 on squats with 95lbs is pretty sad unless a beginner in which case I would ask him why? So with this Jarvan please post a pic or two of your legs so we can see who we are debating with.