What's Right for Me?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

Hey all

i have been doing SL 5x5 now for like 10 weeks,
i started very low on the weights after being out of action for a long time nearly a year (just the very odd day of lifting here and there in that year)

my progress in 5x5 was very good imo , i got to weights it had previously taken me 2yrs to get to with my haphazard made up routine (an upper lower split i did )

anyways last week i stalled on my deadlift of 205 lbs i went to lift it and just barely got one rep out, where as my previous DL of 195lbs i done fairly easy all 5 reps.
Now in my head straight away i put it down to the xmas period ,(diff sleeping patterns and eating habits)and new year and birthday all in a 10 day period , diet was kept as good as i could for the ten days but obviously xmas is xmas :smiley:

at 39 yrs old now i think squatting 3 days a week and increasing the weight every workout might be a bit much for me (recovery wise) and if im honest lifting 200 or 500lb is not a goal of mine anymore.

My goal is to get lean and to hold some strength. Id like one day to have abs once in my life…

age 39
weight 185lbs
waist 32inch
height 5 9

i like working out about 5 days a week even 6 if need be. 3days on 4 off in 5x5 is ok if your goal is to get stronger and lift heavier, but my goal really is to lean out lose body fat and even be able to do say 10 pull ups (at the moment 1 is a struggle)

once again i will say i liked the sl-5x5 it really has given me the lifting bug again and im happy to whatever it takes to reach my goals.

My previous workouts in the two years i did was one day lifting one day cardio lifting cardio (treadmill running sometimes just long 3-5mile jog/walk sometimes interval sprints) i think this is also a bit hard on my recovery. some days i would run in morning and lift in evening. SO my question is what program would be suited to my needs

I have read previous threads where people are asking very similar questions like their goal is “to get fit” or “to get lean” and i understand how that is very vague of an answer so im trying best to explain my specific goals.
i like the idea of being able to run 3miles in like 18-20mins
i like the idea of having a toned torso visible ab lines and no moobs.
i like the idea of bench pressing 1.5xBW for how many reps i dont know
id like to be able to do pull ups maybe 10 in a row
and just the general things like good arms legs back size etc there was one guy on here an over 35 if i remember correctly with a similar frame size to me and he achieved what i would like. but for the life of me i cant find his name or threads :frowning:

Things i know i have to work on are diet/cals and that is something i will do and have been doing

what i need is a solid workout to do where it keeps me intrigued, the 5x5 really showed me that the goal each workout was to add 5lbs and 10lbs to DLs and that kept me really focussed, my old style was just going in and doing say upper/lower split and id just keep adding plates each workout til failure, while i liked that at first but i realise it really isn’t structured properly.

Any input would be much appeciated even if its just links to good workout plans

thanks (sorry for such a long read)

2

Ever consider crossfit?

3

What are your other lifts?

Since your goals include doing 10 pullups and 1.5x BW bench press, you’ll need to get stronger. Running 3 miles in 18 minutes is a matter of conditioning. Visible abs is about being lean i.e. losing fat. These are three different goals, which we can put under the general heading of “getting in shape.” I assume this is why Punisher mentioned Crossfit – it might be a good way of pursuing all these goals simultaneously.

That said, given that you’re 39 and relatively untrained, and depending on the timeline you have in your head for when you’d like to achieve these goals, you might be better off focusing on one goal at a time. For most people I’d recommend focusing on strength first, because it’s a general adaptation and will make the other goals easier.

4

Don’t know why you’d just toss SL after 1 poor workout when it’s been working for you. The program has 3 failed attempts before it considers you stalled. You then get 3 deloads before mov ing to 3x5… It’s working… Milk it.

5

hi

thanks for feedback :smiley: i am gonna continue my SL 5x5 til i really stall altogether , but once that happens i will be looking for another a plan/routine as i know i can then go on to do 5x3 3x3 etc but the 3 day a week 5x5 which i cant say enough about i really liked it, is just not enough for me day wise, id like to be busy 5 day or so a week, and whilst i know i have got so much stronger than i was even a year ago it is not the type of routine i could see myself doing for the next 12months if that makes sense… i enjoyed the goals/new PBs and was just curious as to what type of new routine i could do that had the same type of goals at the end of a workout or a weekly goal as in PBs etc

My goals probably do sound conflicting with each other, i am not sure how else to word it.

i will continue SL 5x5 til i reach a deadlock on it and then reassess my plan i guess
thanks :smiley:

6

My guess is you’ll be stuck exactly where you are.

You’re better off getting some KB’s and doing Dan John’s 10k swing protocol

SL is highly overrated imo.

Just learn how to swing and swing away.

Keep shit simple. All your goals can be achieved by not giving a fuck about it. Serious. Just get healthy and stop wasting time on SL.
Your body will exude ‘fitness’ once you actually get fit.

7

[quote]tsantos wrote:
Don’t know why you’d just toss SL after 1 poor workout when it’s been working for you. The program has 3 failed attempts before it considers you stalled. You then get 3 deloads before mov ing to 3x5… It’s working… Milk it.[/quote]

A 205lbs DL @185lbs BW… Milk what?

Unless OP has a severe injury that I’m not aware of, that is awful.

8

Another flaw of SL is that it suggests you continuously add weight.

Something to ponder. After you achieve one pull up, do you add 5lbs to your 1 pull up to achieve two? No muthafucka, you just keep doing one solid ass pull up until you eventually get two.

Putting on 2.5lbs or 5lbs every week or every other week is simply an ego thing. Some of us must appease our ego to convince ourselves that you are responding. Sure, if you’re DLing 700lbs, 5lbs is a big fuckin deal, but we’re not. Not all of us I should say.

Btw, none of this is directly at you OP

9

cheers Jarvan

and i agree with everything u said :smiley: i have no idea why my DL stalled the way it did and i agree 205 at 185 is awful, maybe it was fatigue maybe it was just too heavy for me (no injuries ) , i will go back a few days and rebuild once i come to my stalling point i will be starting a new program.

10

[quote]Jarvan wrote:

[quote]tsantos wrote:
Don’t know why you’d just toss SL after 1 poor workout when it’s been working for you. The program has 3 failed attempts before it considers you stalled. You then get 3 deloads before mov ing to 3x5… It’s working… Milk it.[/quote]

A 205lbs DL @185lbs BW… Milk what?

Unless OP has a severe injury that I’m not aware of, that is awful.[/quote]

Everyone starts somewhere and he had a bad day. Happy to bet OP will pull 205 for 5 next session.

As for why SL, because the OP described it as it giving him the lifting bug and he has been progressing.

Why you’d swap that out for something he may not like and may not progress with, I’m not sure?

11

OP – if you’re going to stick with Stronglifts, I would suggest cutting down the squats from 5x5 every workout to 3x5. I would suggest this for anyone, because I think squatting 5 heavy sets of 5 three times per week is excessive, but especially for you given your comment about recovery being an issue.

12

Look into crossfit. If you aren’t interested in strength, and it doesn’t appear it’s a goal of yours, crossfit might be something you like. It’s exercise, not training.

13

[quote]tsantos wrote:

[quote]Jarvan wrote:

[quote]tsantos wrote:
Don’t know why you’d just toss SL after 1 poor workout when it’s been working for you. The program has 3 failed attempts before it considers you stalled. You then get 3 deloads before mov ing to 3x5… It’s working… Milk it.[/quote]

A 205lbs DL @185lbs BW… Milk what?

Unless OP has a severe injury that I’m not aware of, that is awful.[/quote]

Everyone starts somewhere and he had a bad day. Happy to bet OP will pull 205 for 5 next session.

As for why SL, because the OP described it as it giving him the lifting bug and he has been progressing.

Why you’d swap that out for something he may not like and may not progress with, I’m not sure?
[/quote]

Because his request is not about getting over a bad lifting day. He has been progressing, but anyone can see ‘progress’ going from nothing to something.

I understand SL, although not the end all be all, is the most popular beginner routine on this forum. That doesn’t mean OP has to use it. Especially because it doesn’t pertain to his specific goals.

Sure SL can be used successfully and often times people stop earlier than they should, but you assuming he won’t like any other programs or get results from it is conjecture.

The biggest de-motivator, in life really, is a lack of results. And imho, a 205lbsDL @185lbs bw is a lack of results.

14

Just checked out some info on the Strong Lifts 5x5 program. It kind of looks like a silly watered down version of the old Bill Starr routine.

The biggest problem is that it’s all “Heavy” days. 5x5 “heavy” 3 times per week in the squat, in my opinion, is a terrible terrible terrible idea. With all 5 sets done at the same weight, you’re never going heavy enough to really challenge your strength.
With so few reps, you can’t really gain much muscle.
5x5 with the same weight, so often, turns into a boring grind.

What about a set up like

Monday
Squat
sets of 5, adding weight each set, up to a max set of 5

Wednesday
Squat
5x5 with 80% of monday’s top set. As little rest between sets as possible.

Friday
Squat
5x5 with 90% of monday’s top set.

just for example.

For pressing, you just need more work. If you bench press 5x5 in one workout, do some seated dumbbell presses afterwards. If you overhead press, do some close grip bench pressing afterwards.

For back, you need tons more wot rk. If you want to get better at pullups, start with the “prone row” sometimes called the “fat man pullup.” Then rows and shrugs. On mondays, do rack pulls or substitute the deadlift for squats every once in awhile.

Once you get used to the 3 day work load, add day 4 for arms and abs. Jump rope on your off days or whatever.

Full body routines are awesome, it just seems like you’re doing the worst one.

Here’s “The Texas Method” by Rippetoe

Basically, the same lifts you’re doing, just varying the weights.

Here’s “The Beach Body Challenge” by Jim Wendler

Same full body routine set up, just more varirty

15

Even Reg Park’s 5x5 routine from way back in the day, that Strong Lifts dude claims inspired him, eventually adds more work.

Reg Park’s 3 Phase 5x5 Program

Phase 1
Back Extension 3x10
Back Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Deadlift 5x5

3 times per week

Phase II
Back Extension 4x10
Front Squat 5x5
Back Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5
High Pull 5x5
Deadlift 5x5

3 times per week

Phase III
Back Extension 4x10
Front Squat 5x5
Back Squat 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Bent Over Row 5x5
Deadlift 5x5
Press Behind Neck 5x5
Barbell Curl 5x5
Skull Crusher 5x5

3 times per week

I have this written in a notebook, but I have no idea where I got it from

16

[quote]michaelmi5 wrote:
i like the idea of being able to run 3miles in like 18-20mins[/quote]
Of the goals you have, this is probably the one that conflicts the most with how you currently train. An 18 minute 5k is nearly competitive to run at a Junior Varsity level at the better high schools. This is the level of in shape high schoolers who have trained for competitive distance running off and on for a couple years.

By no means is this unrealistic, but it is a goal that you’ll need to put a lot of dedicated running work toward. Working toward subgoals like a 70-75 second 400 time, and a consistent sub-6 minute mile.

If you have no serious running training, those will take awhile to get to. (There may be some carryover from cycling, swimming, or rowing.)

But related to the other posts… just working on conditioning, and/or crossfit, is most likely not going to get you there.

This is mostly a matter of discipline and diet. If you’re only planning on running 5ks, and not interested in training for anything longer, these two really don’t conflict.

This probably conflicts the most with the others.

This can be worked on concurrently with whatever you’re already doing. There are some good progressions to build up to pullups, using easier bodyweight movements.

There’s no “right” way to do it, but there’s a place for eccentric work (jump up, lower yourself down slowly), partials (jump up, lower a bit then back up, working on getting deeper over time), frequency work (sub-maximal work throughout the day), and stuff where you just decrease the load via using assistance from your legs (not momentum) or use bands. There’s even room for pulldown work to strengthen things (but it’s not really a pullup).

Obviously weight loss will make this easier.

17

[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
Just checked out some info on the Strong Lifts 5x5 program. It kind of looks like a silly watered down version of the old Bill Starr routine.

The biggest problem is that it’s all “Heavy” days. 5x5 “heavy” 3 times per week in the squat, in my opinion, is a terrible terrible terrible idea. With all 5 sets done at the same weight, you’re never going heavy enough to really challenge your strength.
With so few reps, you can’t really gain much muscle.
5x5 with the same weight, so often, turns into a boring grind.

What about a set up like

Monday
Squat
sets of 5, adding weight each set, up to a max set of 5

Wednesday
Squat
5x5 with 80% of monday’s top set. As little rest between sets as possible.

Friday
Squat
5x5 with 90% of monday’s top set.

just for example.

For pressing, you just need more work. If you bench press 5x5 in one workout, do some seated dumbbell presses afterwards. If you overhead press, do some close grip bench pressing afterwards.

For back, you need tons more wot rk. If you want to get better at pullups, start with the “prone row” sometimes called the “fat man pullup.” Then rows and shrugs. On mondays, do rack pulls or substitute the deadlift for squats every once in awhile.

Once you get used to the 3 day work load, add day 4 for arms and abs. Jump rope on your off days or whatever.

Full body routines are awesome, it just seems like you’re doing the worst one.

Here’s “The Texas Method” by Rippetoe

Basically, the same lifts you’re doing, just varying the weights.

Here’s “The Beach Body Challenge” by Jim Wendler

Same full body routine set up, just more varirty[/quote]

I agree with you about Stronglifts not being an optimal beginner program, and I’m a fan of the Bill Starr 5x5 stuff, but the keyword here is “beginner.” OP should not be doing the Texas Method when he deadlifts 205x5. Starting Strength would be more appropriate, but it’s really not that different from Stronglifts. Beach Body looks like great program to me, but given that it’s a lot of cleans and overhead pressing, and OP has likely never done a clean and states a 1.5 BW bench press as one of his goals, I’m not sure that’s the best option either.

18

I meant to emphasize that other full body 5x5 programs use different intensities (heavy/light/medium) and different numbers of work sets so every workout isn’t exactly the same.

You’re right, the OP is still kind of a beginner, but after 10 straight weeks he’s ready for something new. Going heavy/light/medium like every other full body, 3 session/week program will allow him to add variety to his workouts without changing the lifts, the reps, or the schedule.

He doesn’t want to squat heavy 3 times per week, I just meant to show him that everyone else already found a way to deal with this issue.

I guess I got to rambling and never mentioned that.

19

guys i will re-read all the comments again in the morning thanks

out of curiosity the SL 5x5 insists u do the squats first all the time no excuses, i like doing squats and never want to skip them, but is it possible to say on Deadlift day to do the deads first whilst my energy level is high? i shoulda added in my first post that it has been said to me on here before a few times that i’ll never get massive strong as im always on a calorie deficit, so maybe thats why my lifts arent as big as they should be

thanks again

20

[quote]michaelmi5 wrote:
guys i will re-read all the comments again in the morning thanks

out of curiosity the SL 5x5 insists u do the squats first all the time no excuses, i like doing squats and never want to skip them, but is it possible to say on Deadlift day to do the deads first whilst my energy level is high? i shoulda added in my first post that it has been said to me on here before a few times that i’ll never get massive strong as im always on a calorie deficit, so maybe thats why my lifts arent as big as they should be

thanks again[/quote]

You are under 200 lbs, and on a ‘calorie deficit’?

I think we have found why your DL is stalling at 205.