Once again, it is strange so many have a problem with me using the same starting point as CT did…but no one spoke a word of it earlier before now.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
So are we figuring an 80 lb solid LBM gain from freshman year in high school, when the adolescent body hasn’t actually reached full maturity yet? That seems kinda silly, and it would most certainly skew weight gains just as much as those old before/after weight loss ads where a woman went from post pregnancy weight back to her normal body.
S[/quote]
I am wondering why no one saw it as silly when CT first wrote it.[/quote]
Does it matter? That fact is using your 90lb weight as a freshman for your starting point is very misleading.
edit: obvioulsy some people are closer to being full grown as a freshman than others. So using freshman year for everyones starting point is not accurate. You were nowhere near a fullgrown adult as a freshman. Do you think otherwise?
Broa! When I was born I was 7 lbs. that’s over 200lbs of LBM I’ve gained.
Dont set limits!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I was 150lbs as a college freshman and I worked UP to that. That didn’t even happen by itself.[/quote]
Ahhh, but we can never be sure! Maybe I just have the benefit of actually seeing youngsters go through development from age 14-18 (or 19-20 in some cases). It’s fairly common for some boys to maintain a disturbingly slight frame, only to suddenly sprout up (and out) by their late teens. These are NYC kids I’m talking about. No supplements, no gyms, hell, most are on city sponsored breakfast in schools plans because their families can’t afford to feed them at home.
For all we know, with your obvious rare genetic gifts, you may have been 150 lbs by college regardless of what you did.
S
Another T-Nation shitstorm.
I had to scroll to the top of the page to see what thread this was as i forgot.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I was 150lbs as a college freshman and I worked UP to that. That didn’t even happen by itself.[/quote]
Ahhh, but we can never be sure! Maybe I just have the benefit of actually seeing youngsters go through development from age 14-18 (or 19-20 in some cases). It’s fairly common for some boys to maintain a disturbingly slight frame, only to suddenly sprout up (and out) by their late teens. These are NYC kids I’m talking about. No supplements, no gyms, hell, most are on city sponsored breakfast in schools plans because their families can’t afford to feed them at home.
For all we know, with your obvious rare genetic gifts, you may have been 150 lbs by college regardless of what you did.
S[/quote]
LOL. Dude, I treat mostly kids…so I get to see them grow also. Not to mention literally growing up with two parents who were teachers and sitting in their classrooms often. My dad even coached football for middle school students.
I took after my mom growing up and NO ONE thought I would be this size. I didn’t get big at all until college and never showed any signs I would have before that.
I took weight gainers to hit that 150lbs.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
So are we figuring an 80 lb solid LBM gain from freshman year in high school, when the adolescent body hasn’t actually reached full maturity yet? That seems kinda silly, and it would most certainly skew weight gains just as much as those old before/after weight loss ads where a woman went from post pregnancy weight back to her normal body.
S[/quote]
I am wondering why no one saw it as silly when CT first wrote it.[/quote]
Does it matter? That fact is using your 90lb weight as a freshman for your starting point is very misleading.
edit: obvioulsy some people are closer to being full grown as a freshman than others. So using freshman year for everyones starting point is not accurate. You were nowhere near a fullgrown adult as a freshman. Do you think otherwise?[/quote]
How is it misleading when it was in response to someone else? LOL. It is like you all were ok with CT setting that limit…but since I commented on it, NOW there is a problem.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I was 150lbs as a college freshman and I worked UP to that. That didn’t even happen by itself.[/quote]
Ahhh, but we can never be sure! Maybe I just have the benefit of actually seeing youngsters go through development from age 14-18 (or 19-20 in some cases). It’s fairly common for some boys to maintain a disturbingly slight frame, only to suddenly sprout up (and out) by their late teens. These are NYC kids I’m talking about. No supplements, no gyms, hell, most are on city sponsored breakfast in schools plans because their families can’t afford to feed them at home.
For all we know, with your obvious rare genetic gifts, you may have been 150 lbs by college regardless of what you did.
S[/quote]
LOL. Dude, I treat mostly kids…so I get to see them grow also. Not to mention literally growing up with two parents who were teachers and sitting in their classrooms often. My dad even coached football for middle school students.
I took after my mom growing up and NO ONE thought I would be this size. I didn’t get big at all until college and never showed any signs I would have before that.
I took weight gainers to hit that 150lbs.[/quote]
When did you start training? If I recall correctly, you said 18 years old.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I was 150lbs as a college freshman and I worked UP to that. That didn’t even happen by itself.[/quote]
Ahhh, but we can never be sure! Maybe I just have the benefit of actually seeing youngsters go through development from age 14-18 (or 19-20 in some cases). It’s fairly common for some boys to maintain a disturbingly slight frame, only to suddenly sprout up (and out) by their late teens. These are NYC kids I’m talking about. No supplements, no gyms, hell, most are on city sponsored breakfast in schools plans because their families can’t afford to feed them at home.
For all we know, with your obvious rare genetic gifts, you may have been 150 lbs by college regardless of what you did.
S[/quote]
LOL. Dude, I treat mostly kids…so I get to see them grow also. Not to mention literally growing up with two parents who were teachers and sitting in their classrooms often. My dad even coached football for middle school students.
I took after my mom growing up and NO ONE thought I would be this size. I didn’t get big at all until college and never showed any signs I would have before that.
I took weight gainers to hit that 150lbs.[/quote]
When did you start training? If I recall correctly, you said 18 years old. [/quote]
No, I started in high school regularly (was actually trying to since way earlier). I just didn’t understand how important the food aspect was. That is why you see me write that I got SERIOUS in college. I wrote before that I bought my first weight set at Target when I was in middle school.
I was a very skinny kid who didn’t gain much weight until I went all out in college…which means “starting as an adult” with just over 130lbs of lean body mass. Apparently, ever hitting 210lbs of lean body mass is impossible…which is why you are telling me at 255lbs I would have to lose 50lbs to hit 12%…as if I am damn near 30% right now.
You do that because you believe the limits over what is actually standing there.
Either way, the point is, it can happen…and no, I do NOT have the greatest genetics…so how can you claim no one can do better?
i don’t get why this discussion always gets brought up. there will always be anomalies that go above and beyond what people think is capable from the human body, natty or not.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
So are we figuring an 80 lb solid LBM gain from freshman year in high school, when the adolescent body hasn’t actually reached full maturity yet? That seems kinda silly, and it would most certainly skew weight gains just as much as those old before/after weight loss ads where a woman went from post pregnancy weight back to her normal body.
S[/quote]
I am wondering why no one saw it as silly when CT first wrote it.[/quote]
Does it matter? That fact is using your 90lb weight as a freshman for your starting point is very misleading.
edit: obvioulsy some people are closer to being full grown as a freshman than others. So using freshman year for everyones starting point is not accurate. You were nowhere near a fullgrown adult as a freshman. Do you think otherwise?[/quote]
How is it misleading when it was in response to someone else? LOL. It is like you all were ok with CT setting that limit…but since I commented on it, NOW there is a problem.
[/quote]
What difference does it make? It’s a stupid parameter in what we’re discussing considering a high school freshman isn’t even done growing yet.
I skimmed past the post when CT mentioned it, thought it was a dumb parameter and moved on. Then you took it and kept going with it, as if it actually has any relevance to the topic at hand and now we all have to inform you what a stupid parameter it is, and for some unknown reason you’re acting like you don’t understand why.
It’s not the world against X, it’s X refuses to acknowledge that a high school freshman is a stupid starting point in discussing what is possible in natural bodybuilding.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I was 150lbs as a college freshman and I worked UP to that. That didn’t even happen by itself.[/quote]
Ahhh, but we can never be sure! Maybe I just have the benefit of actually seeing youngsters go through development from age 14-18 (or 19-20 in some cases). It’s fairly common for some boys to maintain a disturbingly slight frame, only to suddenly sprout up (and out) by their late teens. These are NYC kids I’m talking about. No supplements, no gyms, hell, most are on city sponsored breakfast in schools plans because their families can’t afford to feed them at home.
For all we know, with your obvious rare genetic gifts, you may have been 150 lbs by college regardless of what you did.
S[/quote]
LOL. Dude, I treat mostly kids…so I get to see them grow also. Not to mention literally growing up with two parents who were teachers and sitting in their classrooms often. My dad even coached football for middle school students.
I took after my mom growing up and NO ONE thought I would be this size. I didn’t get big at all until college and never showed any signs I would have before that.
I took weight gainers to hit that 150lbs.[/quote]
When did you start training? If I recall correctly, you said 18 years old. [/quote]
No, I started in high school regularly (was actually trying to since way earlier). I just didn’t understand how important the food aspect was. That is why you see me write that I got SERIOUS in college. I wrote before that I bought my first weight set at Target when I was in middle school.
I was a very skinny kid who didn’t gain much weight until I went all out in college…which means “starting as an adult” with just over 130lbs of lean body mass. Apparently, ever hitting 210lbs of lean body mass is impossible…which is why you are telling me at 255lbs I would have to lose 50lbs to hit 12%…as if I am damn near 30% right now.
You do that because you believe the limits over what is actually standing there.
Either way, the point is, it can happen…and no, I do NOT have the greatest genetics…so how can you claim no one can do better?[/quote]
I think all I can say now in regards to your progress is similar to what I said before:
- You’ve made significant progress, what I estimate to be 30 to 40 pound muscle gain.
- I estimate your bodyfat to be higher than you think, ABOUT 25%, which would mean my estimation of 210 at 12% is an OK estimation. (I could be wrong, which is why I emphase that I’m estimating.)
- There are limits and desspite them, I’d encourage someoen to do their best. If they end up setting physical or or any kind of barriers or whatever, then good for them!
By the way, 210 pounds at 5’10" isn’t bad, and as said before, you’d be heavier if you bring your legs up.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I think all I can say now in regards to your progress is similar to what I said before:
- You’ve made significant progress, what I estimate to be 30 to 40 pound muscle gain.
- I estimate your bodyfat to be higher than you think, ABOUT 25%, which would mean my estimation of 210 at 12% is an OK estimation. (I could be wrong, which is why I emphase that I’m estimating.)
- There are limits and desspite them, I’d encourage someoen to do their best. If they end up setting physical or or any kind of barriers or whatever, then good for them!
By the way, 210 pounds at 5’10" isn’t bad, and as said before, you’d be heavier if you bring your legs up. [/quote]
All this tells me is that you are bad at numbers and your guessing is very bad. There is no way in hell I am 25% right now. I have also gained way more than “30-40lbs of muscle” since I was 150lbs.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
What difference does it make? It’s a stupid parameter in what we’re discussing considering a high school freshman isn’t even done growing yet.
I skimmed past the post when CT mentioned it, thought it was a dumb parameter and moved on.[/quote]
Interesting that you simply “moved on” when it was from CT…but since it was from me (only in response to him) NOW you need to write posts about it.
Quit the bullshit and keep this as a discussion…and not the usual weak ass lynch mob.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Lets look at sumo wrestlers.
275 lb. at 26 % body fat,which makes about 205 lb. of lean body mass.
If we assume they are natural and that they started at about 135 lb. of LBM,that makes a 70 pound gain.
[/quote]
No sumo wrestler starts at 135lbs, unless they start when they are 10 (which they might do). People who go into sumo are normally predisposed to being big, so it is unlikely that they start at an adult/fully developed weight of 135lbs.
Sure they might start out at 135 as kids… but then we can’t really count some of the muscle gain since it’s muscle gain that would occur no matter water during puberty/growth. And I doubt that they were 26% bodyfat when they were 135.
I started training at 135lbs, but I was 12 years old (i remember because that was my weight the first year I played football). I’m 228lbs now (this morning) and I am leaner than I was back then. Technically I could claim a 93lbs gain of muscle. But if I look at my family members, my normal adult bodyweight (no training) would have been between 180 and 185. So more realistically I probably gained 45lbs.
[/quote]
LOL
Here is ct’s post basically saying that his weight as a 12 yr old is NOT a realistic starting point.
So can we plaese stop the “well ct said it too” bs?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I was 150lbs as a college freshman and I worked UP to that. That didn’t even happen by itself.[/quote]
Ahhh, but we can never be sure! Maybe I just have the benefit of actually seeing youngsters go through development from age 14-18 (or 19-20 in some cases). It’s fairly common for some boys to maintain a disturbingly slight frame, only to suddenly sprout up (and out) by their late teens. These are NYC kids I’m talking about. No supplements, no gyms, hell, most are on city sponsored breakfast in schools plans because their families can’t afford to feed them at home.
For all we know, with your obvious rare genetic gifts, you may have been 150 lbs by college regardless of what you did.
S[/quote]
LOL. Dude, I treat mostly kids…so I get to see them grow also. Not to mention literally growing up with two parents who were teachers and sitting in their classrooms often. My dad even coached football for middle school students.
I took after my mom growing up and NO ONE thought I would be this size. I didn’t get big at all until college and never showed any signs I would have before that.
I took weight gainers to hit that 150lbs.[/quote]
After college as in 22-25 years old? Right after the age that most males have fully developed and stop growing? Hmmm…
[quote]gregron wrote:
After college as in 22-25 years old? Right after the age that most males have fully developed and stop growing? Hmmm…[/quote]
Are you setting 22 as a starting age? I am sure most bodybuilders started way before the age of 22…which makes these limits even more useless.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
So can we plaese stop the “well ct said it too” bs? [/quote]
Seriously. And even if he did say it, anyone with half a fucking brain can recognize it’s a dumb starting point.
As tired as I am of the “X lynch mob”, I’m just as tired of X complaining about it when it’s not even there.
And X - if you really want to use yourself as a shining example of what we’re discussing, you’re opening up to criticism your actual progress, BF levels (which I also think you’re underestimating), your truly “natural” status among other things.
I just wanted to make sure you realize that before you start complaining that everyone is talking shit about you, bashing you, etc. You brought your own progress in to this, you opened yourself up to it.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Lets look at sumo wrestlers.
275 lb. at 26 % body fat,which makes about 205 lb. of lean body mass.
If we assume they are natural and that they started at about 135 lb. of LBM,that makes a 70 pound gain.
[/quote]
No sumo wrestler starts at 135lbs, unless they start when they are 10 (which they might do). People who go into sumo are normally predisposed to being big, so it is unlikely that they start at an adult/fully developed weight of 135lbs.
Sure they might start out at 135 as kids… but then we can’t really count some of the muscle gain since it’s muscle gain that would occur no matter water during puberty/growth. And I doubt that they were 26% bodyfat when they were 135.
I started training at 135lbs, but I was 12 years old (i remember because that was my weight the first year I played football). I’m 228lbs now (this morning) and I am leaner than I was back then. Technically I could claim a 93lbs gain of muscle. But if I look at my family members, my normal adult bodyweight (no training) would have been between 180 and 185. So more realistically I probably gained 45lbs.
[/quote]
LOL
Here is ct’s post basically saying that his weight as a 12 yr old is NOT a realistic starting point.
[/quote]
Ct also discussed genetics in that most of those guys started pretty big and was using that in relation to where they were much younger.
What he left out were the guys who DON’T…and were very skinny and lean (ie, ecto-mesomorphic body types) but still end up getting really big.