Thibs New Training Questions #4

Training
461

[quote]AAA wrote:
Christian if you could please answer a couple of questions? When I deadlift I can’t seem to get my shoulders to rise with my hips. My hips always seem to rise first just after I start to extend my knees, my upper torso actually dips a little and it becomes more like a stiff legged deadlift, any advise? Also what do you think are some of the best excercises to strengthen and develop serratus…serratus dip for example? Thanks.[/quote]

Here’s a video explaining how to deadlift from T-Nation contributor Bret Contreras. It sounds like you are probably starting from a flawed position or may need to use lower weight to get the technique down first. The serratus is an assistance muscle that mainly functions to help stabilize the scapula and is the agonist in protraction, also plays a big role in scapular upward rotation. Power front raises (demonstrated in the livespill archives) as well as Incline bench pressing are good in activating serratus anterior. Deadlift Form - YouTube

462

[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:
I have been having trouble falling asleep.

I’ve gone to bed at 10:30 p.m. feeling exhausted and having already dozed off a few minutes prior while reading, and then laid in bed until 2:30 p.m. with my brain feeling like it is going a million miles per minute. I do my best not to stress over it because I know if I get anxious it won’t help me. Further, if I feel like I am laying there awhile, I will get up and read until I feel sleepy again, but when I lay down, my brain starts revving again.

Relevant Information:
Diet is sound (I know this is very subjective, but it is the same diet I got lean on, I am simply taking in more carbs in the form of oats).
No work or job stress
No change in caffeine intake (4 cups green tea, last cup no later than 3pm)

Only change is that I have been doing 3 per day sessions using a template of AM Strength session, Lunch Eccentric-less session and Evening Volume work.

I thought maybe my CNS was simply over stimulated from the 3-a-days? Just speculation on my part.

[/quote]

Tim:

That is frustrating - and, as you get less and less sleep, you basically start to lose your mind. (Not that you’re at the point yet :stuck_out_tongue: )

Here is a possible hypothesis - you mentioned you have increased your OATS consumption. Some people are more prone to the phytic acid in oats than others, but basically it binds to zinc and magnesium like nobody’s business.

Here is a good read: http://www.rebuild-from-depression.com/resources/book/Chapter13.pdf

Like I said, it’s just a hypothesis, but you might look into it.

Cheers,
M

463

[quote]synergy93 wrote:
I have experienced this exact same thing (outside of the occasional sleepless night) and it’s always related to on overactive CNS (dieting and training hard, very low body fat levels, etc).
I actually asked CT for the same advice at one point. I’m familiar with the use of Glycine and Phospatidyl serine and their effects on calming the nervous system. He recommended a starting dosage, but I’m not going to recommend any dosage, at the risk of it being wrong for your particular situation. I do know that it helped.
Are you using Power Drive POST workout? I would suggest using after the most intense session…whichever you feel that is…maybe the strength session, but it could be used after the third (evening volume) workout as well.
The combination of glycine, PS and Power Drive could be a big help.
Are you doing 3 workouts everyday??
CT’s the expert, so I’m sure he can answer your question more thoroughly, but the use of the supplements above has helped.
Also…Z12 can be used on the nights you’re having a really tough time sleeping
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply Synergy, I am currently not using glycine, PS or Power Drive. Although, that could change if the sleeplessness continues, I am definitely open to suggestions. I do take zinc and magnesium at around 10:00 pm.

No, I am not training 3 times everyday.

Setup is like this:
Sunday: Lats/Biceps - 2 sessions (Strength/Volume or Strength/E-less)
Monday: OH Press - 3 sessions
Tuesday: Lats/Biceps - 3 Sessions
Wednesday: 3 Sessions, Inc Press - AM, Deadlift - Lunch, Eccentric-less PM
Thursday: Neural Charge
Friday: Flat Press - 3 sessions
Saturday: Legs - 1 or 2 sessions

I do some additional tire draging for legs on Monday and Wednesday. About 17 sessions in the week. However, I am flexible, I tried to schedule it so there were less sessions on the weekends giving me more family time, but if my kids are on a sleep over, I would hit up a 3rd session, and conversely, on the weekdays, if my kids want to play, I will gladly skip my 3rd session. That said, these first 2 weeks of 3-a-days have pretty much looked like the above mentioned schedule.

I was hitting doubles consistently at the end of my contest prep and it didn’t affect my sleep. I really felt like I could make the transition to 3-a-days since 1) I was used to 2-a-days and 2) I was now taking in additional calories.

[quote]Mutsanah wrote:
Tim:
That is frustrating - and, as you get less and less sleep, you basically start to lose your mind. (Not that you’re at the point yet :stuck_out_tongue: )
Here is a possible hypothesis - you mentioned you have increased your OATS consumption. Some people are more prone to the phytic acid in oats than others, but basically it binds to zinc and magnesium like nobody’s business.
Here is a good read: http://www.rebuild-from-depression.com/resources/book/Chapter13.pdf
Like I said, it’s just a hypothesis, but you might look into it.
Cheers,
M[/quote]

Thanks, funny you mention that, I have been soaking my oats in warm water and lemon juice for awhile now…of course, now I read that it doesn’t work well for oats!

That sucks, does the wheat flour truly have to be fresh ground? I have wheat flour, I wouldn’t mind mixing some in if it would help, but I don’t have a grinder nor do I feel like doing that.

464

[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:

[quote]synergy93 wrote:
I have experienced this exact same thing (outside of the occasional sleepless night) and it’s always related to on overactive CNS (dieting and training hard, very low body fat levels, etc).
I actually asked CT for the same advice at one point. I’m familiar with the use of Glycine and Phospatidyl serine and their effects on calming the nervous system. He recommended a starting dosage, but I’m not going to recommend any dosage, at the risk of it being wrong for your particular situation. I do know that it helped.
Are you using Power Drive POST workout? I would suggest using after the most intense session…whichever you feel that is…maybe the strength session, but it could be used after the third (evening volume) workout as well.
The combination of glycine, PS and Power Drive could be a big help.
Are you doing 3 workouts everyday??
CT’s the expert, so I’m sure he can answer your question more thoroughly, but the use of the supplements above has helped.
Also…Z12 can be used on the nights you’re having a really tough time sleeping
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply Synergy, I am currently not using glycine, PS or Power Drive. Although, that could change if the sleeplessness continues, I am definitely open to suggestions. I do take zinc and magnesium at around 10:00 pm.

No, I am not training 3 times everyday.

Setup is like this:
Sunday: Lats/Biceps - 2 sessions (Strength/Volume or Strength/E-less)
Monday: OH Press - 3 sessions
Tuesday: Lats/Biceps - 3 Sessions
Wednesday: 3 Sessions, Inc Press - AM, Deadlift - Lunch, Eccentric-less PM
Thursday: Neural Charge
Friday: Flat Press - 3 sessions
Saturday: Legs - 1 or 2 sessions

I do some additional tire draging for legs on Monday and Wednesday. About 17 sessions in the week. However, I am flexible, I tried to schedule it so there were less sessions on the weekends giving me more family time, but if my kids are on a sleep over, I would hit up a 3rd session, and conversely, on the weekdays, if my kids want to play, I will gladly skip my 3rd session. That said, these first 2 weeks of 3-a-days have pretty much looked like the above mentioned schedule.

I was hitting doubles consistently at the end of my contest prep and it didn’t affect my sleep. I really felt like I could make the transition to 3-a-days since 1) I was used to 2-a-days and 2) I was now taking in additional calories.

[quote]Mutsanah wrote:
Tim:
That is frustrating - and, as you get less and less sleep, you basically start to lose your mind. (Not that you’re at the point yet :stuck_out_tongue: )
Here is a possible hypothesis - you mentioned you have increased your OATS consumption. Some people are more prone to the phytic acid in oats than others, but basically it binds to zinc and magnesium like nobody’s business.
Here is a good read: http://www.rebuild-from-depression.com/resources/book/Chapter13.pdf
Like I said, it’s just a hypothesis, but you might look into it.
Cheers,
M[/quote]

Thanks, funny you mention that, I have been soaking my oats in warm water and lemon juice for awhile now…of course, now I read that it doesn’t work well for oats!

That sucks, does the wheat flour truly have to be fresh ground? I have wheat flour, I wouldn’t mind mixing some in if it would help, but I don’t have a grinder nor do I feel like doing that.
[/quote]

Try another starchy carb source like sweet potato - they taste better anyway.

465

Hey CT

In addition to my previous post…

I want to focus on My ‘foundation muscles’ and was thinking of adding a Foundation circuit at the end of one of my Upper performance days. On livespill, the incline bb press ramp was used to warm up the pressing muscle before completing a pressing circuit. I was wondering what Lat excercise you would recommend to ramp up before beginning a max rep circuit?

As mentioned in my previous post, I’m on fat-loss plan with 2 fast a week. My higher cal days would obveously be my Foundation days - I’ve made good gains on my legs on my cheat day so far.
My split would then become:

Mon- upper p + traps rear delts etc - below maintainence cals *84g carbs para-workout
Tues - NC - Fast
Wed - foundation - maintainence cals *105 carbs para-workout + 50g post + Muay Thai 1.5 hurs
Thurs - Legs - below maintainence but low volume *84g carbs para-workout + Muay Thai 1.5 hours
Friday - NC fast
Saturday - Upper performance + Foundation circuit - Cheat (Mainly extra carbs + a couple of amall sweet treats here and there)
Sunday - Off - Low carb + 1.5 hours Muay Thai

As always thanks

moogweasel

466

[quote]Mutsanah wrote:
Try another starchy carb source like sweet potato - they taste better anyway. [/quote]

That might be worthy of a week long experiment.

Update:

I fell asleep fine the last two nights. On Tuesday, I finished my 3rd session by 3:30 pm. several hours earlier than normal and yesterday, I skipped my 3rd session to play with my children. This seems to support my idea that I am overstimulated. I don’t want to give up my 3rd session, I want to beat this with intelligent strategies, whether it is supplements, diet changes, or something else.

467

[quote]dayne_lathrop wrote:
Hello coach,

i had a quick question. Considering you have put muscle on so many different clients and athletes, i was wondering if you have noticed any ratio or corelation from how much you increase the load of an exercise to how much muscle that translates into? for example, if you add 50 pounds to your 3 rep max for say something like a hack squat, is it possible to estimate how much muscle mass that is? i know its probably different for everyone, but since you have worked with so many people, just wondering if there is like an average or something that you have seen. thanks in advance as always.[/quote]

That is really impossible to answer. Individual variations are way too important… I’ve seen guys gain a lot of strength without adding much muscle and I’ve also seen guys gain a lot of size without getting much stronger. These are exceptions, but in most cases it is different from one to another.

468

[quote]bud moody wrote:
sorry for posting in the pulsefast livespill, i suppose its more training oriented…
christian, i think you mntioned earlier that at the moment you are pressing 5 or 6 days a week. presumably a certain exercise will be used say twice a week, and you will rotate lifts somewhat, but what I want to know is how driven you are by beating PBs, getting more reps each workout etc or do you simply ramp up to where you feel you can each session? will you push yourself to beat last week’s workout if you are feeling nervous/as though it may be a struggle or do you back off to avoid burnout?

thanks in advance [/quote]

Actually I personally stick to much of the same pressing movements throughout the week. This comes from my olympic lifting background where we would do the competitive lifts everyday. I do not necessarily recommend that approach to everybody, but it works for me.

I am NEVER driven by beating PRs. Not that I don’t break them, but it’s never my intention to do so. I found that being focused on numbers is a good way to drive yourself into the ground when you are using a high training frequency.

My goal is rather to do more total work in the 80-85% range. When I feel good I will work up to 90-95% and rarely do I shoot for more than that (maybe once every 3-4 weeks).

The goal is to accumulate as much high intensity work as possible without draining your nervous system. I never allow myself to have a grinding rep, I dominate all my reps and I never attempt a weight that I don’t feel 100% confident I will lift.

469

[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:

[quote]Mutsanah wrote:
Try another starchy carb source like sweet potato - they taste better anyway. [/quote]

That might be worthy of a week long experiment.

Update:

I fell asleep fine the last two nights. On Tuesday, I finished my 3rd session by 3:30 pm. several hours earlier than normal and yesterday, I skipped my 3rd session to play with my children. This seems to support my idea that I am overstimulated. I don’t want to give up my 3rd session, I want to beat this with intelligent strategies, whether it is supplements, diet changes, or something else.

[/quote]

Also might boost zinc and mag intake. Zinc in a.m. and lunch apart from calcium and mag after last WO and before bed. (if you’re not already taking)

470

Do you like this set up for lower body, One day is a performance day dedicated to a squat and deadlift variation and some single leg or prowler work. The 2nd day is less CNS draining exercises (leg press, hack squat, leg curls or GHR’s) for lots of sets and 6-8 reps per set.

Or would you scrap the 2nd day and just go with another performace day?

471

@ Mutsanah

Zinc intake is already fairly high. I could probably try more Magnesium though, that is a good idea.

Definitely will need some planning ahead (oats are just easy for me in terms of preparation), but I might try 1 week on rice and potatoes.

472

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]dayne_lathrop wrote:
Hello coach,

i had a quick question. Considering you have put muscle on so many different clients and athletes, i was wondering if you have noticed any ratio or corelation from how much you increase the load of an exercise to how much muscle that translates into? for example, if you add 50 pounds to your 3 rep max for say something like a hack squat, is it possible to estimate how much muscle mass that is? i know its probably different for everyone, but since you have worked with so many people, just wondering if there is like an average or something that you have seen. thanks in advance as always.[/quote]

That is really impossible to answer. Individual variations are way too important… I’ve seen guys gain a lot of strength without adding much muscle and I’ve also seen guys gain a lot of size without getting much stronger. These are exceptions, but in most cases it is different from one to another.[/quote]

thought that might be the case… thanks for the response though coach, just wanted to check.

473

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

Actually I personally stick to much of the same pressing movements throughout the week. This comes from my olympic lifting background where we would do the competitive lifts everyday. I do not necessarily recommend that approach to everybody, but it works for me.

I am NEVER driven by beating PRs. Not that I don’t break them, but it’s never my intention to do so. I found that being focused on numbers is a good way to drive yourself into the ground when you are using a high training frequency.

My goal is rather to do more total work in the 80-85% range. When I feel good I will work up to 90-95% and rarely do I shoot for more than that (maybe once every 3-4 weeks).

The goal is to accumulate as much high intensity work as possible without draining your nervous system. I never allow myself to have a grinding rep, I dominate all my reps and I never attempt a weight that I don’t feel 100% confident I will lift.[/quote]

In my case I need to lower the frequency, but to add up for that I should increase the load or the volume (in order to still get optimum results)?

474

CT— Three quick questions–one on the Compex Sport EMS you said earlier you like and had bought, one on VMO weakness and ACLs, and one on staggered sets. I’d really appreciate it if you could share insight, particularly on 2) and 3). Thanks for all your help for us over the years!

  1. Compex–you said if used properly you think it could give similar benefits to eccentricless training? What general guidelines would you give for that use… ie: how often/long/ and on off days or not? ALSO, in your old books there’s a chapter on using EMS for strength gains. Do you still think it a useful "investment " for strength in certain circumstances–and maybe “feeling”/being able to recruit a stubborn muscle more–or have you changed thoughts?

  2. Right knee caves in upon landing during box jumps and plyos in someone with a history of ACL tear/problems (not me on someone else). Not really a problem though on squats or deadlifts, they are able to stabilize effectively. Do you have a preferred method/exercises to strengthen the VMO? I’m doing work on it already but I would like some insight if you have any quick thoughts on what you like to do.

  3. Staggered sets–is there a particular way or order you like to stagger performance assistance muscles during pressing workouts? Any particular pairing you like best? Eg–shoulder press, rhomboid work/rows, bench/rear delt, Board presses/traps?

Oh, I guess one more: overall volume on rhomboid/rear delt/traps–is it generall 1 to 1 in terms of sets with your pressing movements?

475

christian, thanks a lot for your detailed answer to my previous question. If i may ask one more…
at the moment due to training alone mostly and a shoulder injury, my pressing is only with dumbbells. my question is that with the increased difficulty of the first rep (from the bottom of the movement after kicking the DBs up) and the fact that at the moment (made worse because of recovering from the injury) I do not press anything heavier than 20 or 22kg dumbbells, ramping in sets of 3/4 as i like to does not seem to work and i have been using 6-10 reps again, starting with 12kg, then 14, then 16 etc… in order to increase volume should i be doing 2 sets on one weight occasionally?

476

C T ,
Do you recommend high rep squats (20 or more per set) with low carb diet ?

477

[quote]never_got_ripped wrote:
C T ,
Do you recommend high rep squats (20 or more per set) with low carb diet ?[/quote]

I rarely if ever do high rep squats… my lower body volume is done mostly with the sled

478

[quote]bud moody wrote:
christian, thanks a lot for your detailed answer to my previous question. If i may ask one more…
at the moment due to training alone mostly and a shoulder injury, my pressing is only with dumbbells. my question is that with the increased difficulty of the first rep (from the bottom of the movement after kicking the DBs up) and the fact that at the moment (made worse because of recovering from the injury) I do not press anything heavier than 20 or 22kg dumbbells, ramping in sets of 3/4 as i like to does not seem to work and i have been using 6-10 reps again, starting with 12kg, then 14, then 16 etc… in order to increase volume should i be doing 2 sets on one weight occasionally?[/quote]

I do not recommend ramping with anything over 6 reps… doesn’t work well. I’d do 1 or 2 lighter sets then do all your work sets with the same weight.

479

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
CT— Three quick questions–one on the Compex Sport EMS you said earlier you like and had bought, one on VMO weakness and ACLs, and one on staggered sets. I’d really appreciate it if you could share insight, particularly on 2) and 3). Thanks for all your help for us over the years!

  1. Compex–you said if used properly you think it could give similar benefits to eccentricless training? What general guidelines would you give for that use… ie: how often/long/ and on off days or not? ALSO, in your old books there’s a chapter on using EMS for strength gains. Do you still think it a useful "investment " for strength in certain circumstances–and maybe “feeling”/being able to recruit a stubborn muscle more–or have you changed thoughts?

  2. Right knee caves in upon landing during box jumps and plyos in someone with a history of ACL tear/problems (not me on someone else). Not really a problem though on squats or deadlifts, they are able to stabilize effectively. Do you have a preferred method/exercises to strengthen the VMO? I’m doing work on it already but I would like some insight if you have any quick thoughts on what you like to do.

  3. Staggered sets–is there a particular way or order you like to stagger performance assistance muscles during pressing workouts? Any particular pairing you like best? Eg–shoulder press, rhomboid work/rows, bench/rear delt, Board presses/traps?

Oh, I guess one more: overall volume on rhomboid/rear delt/traps–is it generall 1 to 1 in terms of sets with your pressing movements?[/quote]

  1. I use the compex for added volume (like eccentric-less training) by either adding it at then end of a workout, or as a second ‘workout’ a few hours after your strength session.

  2. It’s a lack of overall strength. You need more strength to absorb force upon landing than to lower a weight. I would work GRADUALLY on absorbing force. This means dropping all your current jump exercises and performing depth landings (dropping from a box and landing on the floor in a jumping position and sticking the landing) BUT start from a VERY low height. Do not jump off of a height where you knees cave in upon landing. Gradually work on adding height to the drop as your get better at absorption… be patient.

  3. Not really, although my own favorite way is to do traps work with overhead work, rhomboid/rear delts work with flat pressing and rotator cuff work with incline pressing

480

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]boidae wrote:
CT,

If a trainee is not a competitive bodybuilder but does train for size and strength, focusing on big movements like deads, squats and lots of prowler work, do you feel they need direct calve and hamstring work?[/quote]

No calves work would be needed, and very little if any direct hamstrings work (the later depending on muscle dominance… someone with a very dominant lower back, might need to add some hamstrings work)[/quote]

Do you believe one can build decent calves without direct work?