Thibs New Training Questions #4

Training
441

[quote]fotakou wrote:
Hello coach!

Needless to say that your current writings on Eccentric less training and neural charge workouts have really impacted my thoughts on training! I used a combo eccentric less/neural charge workout(I hadnt quite grasped the whole concept completely) on Friday and I was in for a surprise! I thought that after the workout I would try deadlifting our kitchen(Thank God I didnt :P)

However I have not seen you saying anything about how much is too much. Can we continue doing the Neural Charge workouts indefinitely? You say that 95% of the times you prefer them than an off day but is it for real? I am not questioning you,its just that its so revolutionary(not taking actual days off) that I am finding it hard to digest…

One other topic that you touched and really caught my eye was work capacity. This is something that both you and Ido Portal have talked about. Do you have any guidelines on increasing work capacity? Ross Enamait in one of his books said that you can increase it by doing more in less time but I was wondering if there are other ways around. From your and Ido’s workouts I can see that simply extending the workout to more than 60 minutes is one of the ways as well. Do you have any guidelines?

Thanks a lot![/quote]

Hey CT,

Along these lines as well, is there any literature out there on Neural charge workouts or is more of an anecdotal thing?

Thanks CT

442

[quote]fotakou wrote:
Hello coach!

Needless to say that your current writings on Eccentric less training and neural charge workouts have really impacted my thoughts on training! I used a combo eccentric less/neural charge workout(I hadnt quite grasped the whole concept completely) on Friday and I was in for a surprise! I thought that after the workout I would try deadlifting our kitchen(Thank God I didnt :P)

However I have not seen you saying anything about how much is too much. Can we continue doing the Neural Charge workouts indefinitely? You say that 95% of the times you prefer them than an off day but is it for real? I am not questioning you,its just that its so revolutionary(not taking actual days off) that I am finding it hard to digest…

One other topic that you touched and really caught my eye was work capacity. This is something that both you and Ido Portal have talked about. Do you have any guidelines on increasing work capacity? Ross Enamait in one of his books said that you can increase it by doing more in less time but I was wondering if there are other ways around. From your and Ido’s workouts I can see that simply extending the workout to more than 60 minutes is one of the ways as well. Do you have any guidelines?

Thanks a lot![/quote]

fotakou:

Everything you’d ever want to know and more about NC WO’s: http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-blog/training-lab/8268

Cheers,
M

443

Hey Coach, i’ve been trying to find some opinions on the rep ratio of pulling to pressing for shoulder health and symmetry. I’ve seen 2:1 ratio.

What are your suggestions?

Thinking some more i guess its depends on the training history and strength ratios are probably also important.

Right now i’m following the 5/3/1 program for exercise selection/order that focuses on the pressing exercises for strength/performance, however i’m ramping sets of 3 for the 2 core pressing exercises and i usually do 5x10 for my rows.

Edit:

CT what do you think of this for your performance assistants? I will start doing chins when i lost 25lbs or so.

OHP Day
5x10 db pullovers
5x10 BB Shrugs

Bench Day
5x10 DB rows
5x10 DB external rotations

444

When I do back extension, should I bend at the hips or at the lumbar spine level?

445

[quote]boidae wrote:
CT,

This is the split I am using:

Mon - Upper body performance (rear delts, traps ad rhomboids work with weights)
Wed - Lats and biceps
Fri - Upper body performance 2 (rear delts, traps ad rhomboids work with prowler)
Sat - Lower body / prowler work
Sun - Prowler work (total body and heavy pushes)

One of my goals right now is dead lift strength. Saturday currently looks like this: deads, front sq, bb squat and prowler work. I thought on weeks that I could train the extra day that I could do deads on Thursday and legs on Saturday.

How would you change this up if I wanted to lift on Thursday too? Would I be better off just adding in a prowler session on that day?
[/quote]

CT,

Please don’t take this the wrong way… I am not trying to be rude or demand a response by bumping this question. I am more curious if I asked something wrong so that I know how or what to ask in the future. I know you’ve already answered much of what get’s asked here, but the search function here is not the greatest.

446

tried a performance upper and lower workout while away on holiday last week and was impressed so keep that up…

just some thoughts on my plan going forwards would be appreciated:

just came off a planned overtraining then back off type set up x 7 - 8 weeks, and then i will have had 2 weeks off that with the training above in between

starting next week i’;m looking at using the 1st phase of the off season program (neural re-wiring to explosiveness) for footy next year in the hope of turning my strength gains into actual performance so there’s 4 - 6 weeks

then i was looking at a hypertrophy phase so am i best going with the program as written or i was thinking of doing a 2 week concentrated loading phase for upper press/quad dom/upper pull??/hip dominant for each (8 weeks total)

then back to strength focus using your current methods

then phase 4 of explosiveness neural rewiring

also are sprints fine for lower body work capacity? i’d also pop them in during the week so should i do them on neural charge thursday or foundation wednesday?

thoughts and thanks

447

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Actually I don’t use the pin press often in my own workouts… in fact I haven’t used them in at least a year. I feel that once you are of a certain strength level (315lbs+ on the full bench press) the pin press is not only suboptimal, it can actually be dangerous.[/quote]Would you recommend the frequent use of deadstop (upper and lower) back exercises (Rack Pulls, Power Shrugs, BB Lat Rows) if one trained Traps and Lats on the same day?

448

[quote]tolismann wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Actually I don’t use the pin press often in my own workouts… in fact I haven’t used them in at least a year. I feel that once you are of a certain strength level (315lbs+ on the full bench press) the pin press is not only suboptimal, it can actually be dangerous.[/quote]Would you recommend the frequent use of deadstop (upper and lower) back exercises (Rack Pulls, Power Shrugs, BB Lat Rows) if one trained Traps and Lats on the same day?
[/quote]

Lower back and traps (rack pull, power shrugs, power upright row) YES.

For other portions of the back, no.

449

Hey Thibs, got a specialization question ya.

I’ve been hitting my shoulders 2-4 times a week for a couple weeks now, but im not really sure when i should go back to normal training.

are there are cues/signs you like to look for when deciding to end a spec phase?

thanks

450

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
Hey Thibs, got a specialization question ya.

I’ve been hitting my shoulders 2-4 times a week for a couple weeks now, but im not really sure when i should go back to normal training.

are there are cues/signs you like to look for when deciding to end a spec phase?

thanks[/quote]

If you are not following a specific plan (e.g. 4 weeks spec on this, 4 weeks spec on that, etc.) then it’s really up to you… generally you stop either:

  • when you stop seeing results
  • when the muscle is not recovering (e.g. you start to have some tendon pain)
  • when you reach a level of development that is satisfactory for that phase
451

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Mutsanah wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]monatu wrote:
Thibs, for Upper Body performance days (say your doing 2 a week), would you do a OHP and a Flat Bench variation each day - or would Upper Body Perf 1 be focused on OHP + Trap Work, and Upper Body Performance Day 2 be focused Horizontal Pressing + Rear Delt/Rhomboid work?[/quote]

OHP and flat work on all days… I have 3 main pressing exercises on each day and they cover vertical and horizontal pushing. HOWEVER you can:

  1. Emphasize one pattern over the other… for example on DAY 1 you do 2 overhead and 1 flat movement; DAY 2 you do 1 overhead and 2 flat movements (or other angles like decline)

  2. Sometimes focus on one pattern per day (but this is less frequent) for example DAY 1 could be military press, push press, top half shoulder press and DAY 2 Incline press, flat bench press, top half bench press

But I personally recommend starting all pressing workout with an overhead movement, this has drastically reduced shoulder problems in all who have used it.[/quote]

Thibs:

Are you including a press from pins exercise in most WO’s?

So, examples presented above represent a way to keep on ramping to a higher weight. OK to do pin presses in different movements in most WO’s?

Are some more likely to respond better to pin press as an activation rather than a final ramping exercise?[/quote]

Actually I don’t use the pin press often in my own workouts… in fact I haven’t used them in at least a year. I feel that once you are of a certain strength level (315lbs+ on the full bench press) the pin press is not only suboptimal, it can actually be dangerous.

To overload the top portion of the lift I personally prefer reverse band bench press. (bands attached at the top of the power rack).[/quote]

Thib,
By pin press are you referring to any pressing from pins or more of an overload of a stronger range of motion? If I have done a 405 Incline, would you have a problem doing deadstop reps from the bottom position of an incline in the power rack with anything over 315?

452

I can personally vouch for transitioning from overhead to flat. I train for weightlifting and am a converted powerlifter, and I still like to include some benching in my training, typically for me a session would start with a Jerk variation, then push presses (front or behind-head, or military press) and then a bench variation.

Interestingly, I have noticed that once I adapted to the initial dip in performance due to the fatigue of the jerks and overhead work, my bench started climb back up and in fact I suspect that if I tested it, could possibly be higher than before.

The transition from the Jerk, which is complex, very aggressive exercise, to the press / push press, which is still a complex lift then makes the bench feel less technical, yet more explosive.

For me personally, it seems that the Jerks and overhead work potentiate the flat work to an extent, most likely due to the greater velocities and complexity of the movements, activating the nervous system.

And to agree with Christian, my shoulders have never felt better (I have had 2 AC separations).

453

[quote]Dave Rogerson wrote:
I can personally vouch for transitioning from overhead to flat. I train for weightlifting and am a converted powerlifter, and I still like to include some benching in my training, typically for me a session would start with a Jerk variation, then push presses (front or behind-head, or military press) and then a bench variation.

Interestingly, I have noticed that once I adapted to the initial dip in performance due to the fatigue of the jerks and overhead work, my bench started climb back up and in fact I suspect that if I tested it, could possibly be higher than before.

The transition from the Jerk, which is complex, very aggressive exercise, to the press / push press, which is still a complex lift then makes the bench feel less technical, yet more explosive.

For me personally, it seems that the Jerks and overhead work potentiate the flat work to an extent, most likely due to the greater velocities and complexity of the movements, activating the nervous system.

And to agree with Christian, my shoulders have never felt better (I have had 2 AC separations).[/quote]

Agree, Dave. I had severe shoulder instability when younger - 2 shoulder dislocations per shoulder (football).

Once I moved on to concentrating on OHP and doing bench last in WO as well as working on external rotators, shoulders have never felt better. Thanks to Thibs again.

454

CT

How would you set up a deload week in terms of frequency and volume?
This is my current fat -loss split:
Mon- upper p + traps rear delts etc - below maintainence cals *84g carbs para-workout
Tues - NC - Fast
Wed - foundation - maintainence cals *105 carbs para-workout + 50g post
Thurs - Upper p - below maintainence cals *84g carbs para-workout
Friday - NC fast
Saturday - Legs (mountain dog style) Cheat (Mainly extra carbs + a couple of amall sweet treats here and there)
Sunday - Off - Low carb

I was thinking of 5x5 on OHP + ramping until bar speed slows on other pressess for performance days?
Light trap/rhomb/rear delt work.
Not quite sure what to do for the the Foundation days…Reduced volume?
Legs would also be reduced volume + intensity? Like less CNS training circuits maybe?

Would I need to adjust my carbs as I’m on a fatloss plan if I’m reducing volume?

Thanks in advance

455

Christian, after 2 and a half weeks with pulse fasting, results are awesome. I’m experimenting next day. After try sled, I felt great impact in arms and back.

Based on something like this:

DAY 1 - PULSE - UPPER BODY PERFORMANCE
DAY 2 - LATS BICEPS - VOLUME
DAY 3 - UPPER BODY PERFORMANCE
DAY 4 - PULSE - NEURAL
DAY 5 - LATS AND BICEPS - VOLUME
DAY 6 - UPPER BODY PERFORMANCE
DAY 7 - LEGS

Can you give an example of lats biceps volume workout with sled/weight training to take advantage to fast pulses? Some sled rows for midback would be acceptable as well?

456

Christian if you could please answer a couple of questions? When I deadlift I can’t seem to get my shoulders to rise with my hips. My hips always seem to rise first just after I start to extend my knees, my upper torso actually dips a little and it becomes more like a stiff legged deadlift, any advise? Also what do you think are some of the best excercises to strengthen and develop serratus…serratus dip for example? Thanks.

457

Hello coach,

i had a quick question. Considering you have put muscle on so many different clients and athletes, i was wondering if you have noticed any ratio or corelation from how much you increase the load of an exercise to how much muscle that translates into? for example, if you add 50 pounds to your 3 rep max for say something like a hack squat, is it possible to estimate how much muscle mass that is? i know its probably different for everyone, but since you have worked with so many people, just wondering if there is like an average or something that you have seen. thanks in advance as always.

458

I have been having trouble falling asleep.

I’ve gone to bed at 10:30 p.m. feeling exhausted and having already dozed off a few minutes prior while reading, and then laid in bed until 2:30 p.m. with my brain feeling like it is going a million miles per minute. I do my best not to stress over it because I know if I get anxious it won’t help me. Further, if I feel like I am laying there awhile, I will get up and read until I feel sleepy again, but when I lay down, my brain starts revving again.

Relevant Information:
Diet is sound (I know this is very subjective, but it is the same diet I got lean on, I am simply taking in more carbs in the form of oats).
No work or job stress
No change in caffeine intake (4 cups green tea, last cup no later than 3pm)

Only change is that I have been doing 3 per day sessions using a template of AM Strength session, Lunch Eccentric-less session and Evening Volume work.

I thought maybe my CNS was simply over stimulated from the 3-a-days? Just speculation on my part.

459

sorry for posting in the pulsefast livespill, i suppose its more training oriented…
christian, i think you mntioned earlier that at the moment you are pressing 5 or 6 days a week. presumably a certain exercise will be used say twice a week, and you will rotate lifts somewhat, but what I want to know is how driven you are by beating PBs, getting more reps each workout etc or do you simply ramp up to where you feel you can each session? will you push yourself to beat last week’s workout if you are feeling nervous/as though it may be a struggle or do you back off to avoid burnout?

thanks in advance

460

I have experienced this exact same thing (outside of the occasional sleepless night) and it’s always related to on overactive CNS (dieting and training hard, very low body fat levels, etc).

I actually asked CT for the same advice at one point. I’m familiar with the use of Glycine and Phospatidyl serine and their effects on calming the nervous system. He recommended a starting dosage, but I’m not going to recommend any dosage, at the risk of it being wrong for your particular situation. I do know that it helped.

Are you using Power Drive POST workout? I would suggest using after the most intense session…whichever you feel that is…maybe the strength session, but it could be used after the third (evening volume) workout as well.

The combination of glycine, PS and Power Drive could be a big help.

Are you doing 3 workouts everyday??

CT’s the expert, so I’m sure he can answer your question more thoroughly, but the use of the supplements above has helped.

Also…Z12 can be used on the nights you’re having a really tough time sleeping

[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:
I have been having trouble falling asleep.

I’ve gone to bed at 10:30 p.m. feeling exhausted and having already dozed off a few minutes prior while reading, and then laid in bed until 2:30 p.m. with my brain feeling like it is going a million miles per minute. I do my best not to stress over it because I know if I get anxious it won’t help me. Further, if I feel like I am laying there awhile, I will get up and read until I feel sleepy again, but when I lay down, my brain starts revving again.

Relevant Information:
Diet is sound (I know this is very subjective, but it is the same diet I got lean on, I am simply taking in more carbs in the form of oats).
No work or job stress
No change in caffeine intake (4 cups green tea, last cup no later than 3pm)

Only change is that I have been doing 3 per day sessions using a template of AM Strength session, Lunch Eccentric-less session and Evening Volume work.

I thought maybe my CNS was simply over stimulated from the 3-a-days? Just speculation on my part.

[/quote]