Thibs New Training Questions #4

Logan24 · October 12, 2010, 5:01pm

CT, I read in another post that you believe staggerd training on the Upper body performance day is best. How exaxtly would this be done? Something like this?

1)Mediciine ball throw

2)Push Press Set 1 3-5 reps
Shrugs Set 1 Weight that can be done 6-10x

Push Press set 2 3-5 reps
Shrugs set 2 same as above

And so on for the first 2/3 of that exercise (push press)

3)Behind the neck press set 1 3-5 reps
Machine rear fly’s set 1 same as above

and so on for the first 2/3 of the exercise (BTNP)

Also would the medicine ball throw be considered one of the 4 main exercises or is it just an activation exercise? If so How many sets/reps should be done.

Thanks

Christian_Thibaudeau · October 12, 2010, 5:05pm

[quote]Logan24 wrote:
CT, I read in another post that you believe staggerd training on the Upper body performance day is best. How exaxtly would this be done? Something like this?

1)Mediciine ball throw

2)Push Press Set 1 3-5 reps
Shrugs Set 1 Weight that can be done 6-10x

Push Press set 2 3-5 reps
Shrugs set 2 same as above

And so on for the first 2/3 of that exercise (push press)

3)Behind the neck press set 1 3-5 reps
Machine rear fly’s set 1 same as above

and so on for the first 2/3 of the exercise (BTNP)

Also would the medicine ball throw be considered one of the 4 main exercises or is it just an activation exercise? If so How many sets/reps should be done.

Thanks

[/quote]

Yes, that’s exactly it.

Gaby_2700 · October 12, 2010, 5:29pm

Wow, thats a lot of sets for biceps and lats. I wish I saw this 3-4 months ago. Anyway right now it’s pretty impossible for e to sit that much in the gym. Right now I have to wake up at 6 a.m. eat breakfast at 6.15-6.20 go to the bus, come home at 3 p.m. and then I have to eat a lot, try to relax and then study and dom homeworks; by 5-6 p.m I have to be ready to workout, come back home by 7-8 pm and then eat and go to sleep by 9-10 p.m. so that I still get some quality sleep. (Pretty busy.BY th way I eat 1-2 snacks between 10 am and 2 pm)

If anyone has some experience with it I whould be glad to give me some tips on better time management, nutrition or workout denity trick, I’m listening.

And here are some questions specifically for CT:

Is it better to focus on the magnitude of the mecanical loading in my case when training?
And what’s the deal with low-threshold motor units?

BiP · October 12, 2010, 5:38pm

[quote]Gaby 2700 wrote:
Wow, thats a lot of sets for biceps and lats. I wish I saw this 3-4 months ago. Anyway right now it’s pretty impossible for e to sit that much in the gym. Right now I have to wake up at 6 a.m. eat breakfast at 6.15-6.20 go to the bus, come home at 3 p.m. and then I have to eat a lot, try to relax and then study and dom homeworks; by 5-6 p.m I have to be ready to workout, come back home by 7-8 pm and then eat and go to sleep by 9-10 p.m. so that I still get some quality sleep. (Pretty busy.BY th way I eat 1-2 snacks between 10 am and 2 pm)

If anyone has some experience with it I whould be glad to give me some tips on better time management, nutrition or workout denity trick, I’m listening.

And here are some questions specifically for CT:

Is it better to focus on the magnitude of the mecanical loading in my case when training?
And what’s the deal with low-threshold motor units?[/quote]

The setup I posted above (although with only 2 biceps exercises and a shorter max reps circuit for biceps) took me a little over an hour and I wasn’t trying to do it as quickly as possible, just sticking to my regular pace. With higher volume for the biceps it’s 1.5 hour at most (I’ll know for sure next week). Depending on your goals you could probably get rid of one lats exercise or keep the biceps volume lower, that way you should still be able to keep it just a little over 1h.

B.

Christian_Thibaudeau · October 12, 2010, 5:41pm

[quote]Gaby 2700 wrote:
Wow, thats a lot of sets for biceps and lats. I wish I saw this 3-4 months ago. Anyway right now it’s pretty impossible for e to sit that much in the gym. Right now I have to wake up at 6 a.m. eat breakfast at 6.15-6.20 go to the bus, come home at 3 p.m. and then I have to eat a lot, try to relax and then study and dom homeworks; by 5-6 p.m I have to be ready to workout, come back home by 7-8 pm and then eat and go to sleep by 9-10 p.m. so that I still get some quality sleep. (Pretty busy.BY th way I eat 1-2 snacks between 10 am and 2 pm)

If anyone has some experience with it I whould be glad to give me some tips on better time management, nutrition or workout denity trick, I’m listening.

And here are some questions specifically for CT:

Is it better to focus on the magnitude of the mecanical loading in my case when training?
And what’s the deal with low-threshold motor units?[/quote]

Man, you think your schedule is rough? You should see mine! Or better yet, see my training partner’s… he has a construction company. Wakes up at 4am, starts his day at 5:30 and work until 5:00pm. Then he come train then go gome… oh yeah, he also has a daughter and a brother who has been in the hospital for more than 2 months and he visits him daily. He also has two hockey practices per week and 1-2 games on the weekend. And he can do the same workouts that I do.

As I mentioned, the lats/biceps workout I posted was done in less than 90 minutes. But we rarely speak more than 1 word during the whole workout. A lot of people waste way too much time in the gym.

Logan24 · October 12, 2010, 5:53pm

CT, what kind of weekly schedule would be best when trying to bring up the “football shoulder pad area” Just saw Daryl’s videos and was inspired? In the live spill you mentioned that you like to perform all workouts in a row and prefer to work on movement patterns rather than specific muscles. I was thinking:

Mon:Upper body performance 1
Tues:Upper body performance 2
Wed:Upper Body Performance 3
Thur:Neural Charge
Fri:Foundation (Lats,Biceps,Calves,ABS)
Sat:Legs maybe a biceps ciruit

Would this a good set up? Should the neural charge be after the 3rd day or 2nd day? Also would you still perform staggered training for the first 3 days or would you focus a bit more on a specific muscle and add rhomboids and traps at the end? Is tricep work necessary or would all the pressing be enough?

Sorry if these questions have been answered there are many videos and the livespill is hard to find things in.

Logan24 · October 12, 2010, 5:55pm

[quote]Gaby 2700 wrote:
Wow, thats a lot of sets for biceps and lats. I wish I saw this 3-4 months ago. Anyway right now it’s pretty impossible for e to sit that much in the gym. Right now I have to wake up at 6 a.m. eat breakfast at 6.15-6.20 go to the bus, come home at 3 p.m. and then I have to eat a lot, try to relax and then study and dom homeworks; by 5-6 p.m I have to be ready to workout, come back home by 7-8 pm and then eat and go to sleep by 9-10 p.m. so that I still get some quality sleep. (Pretty busy.BY th way I eat 1-2 snacks between 10 am and 2 pm)

If anyone has some experience with it I whould be glad to give me some tips on better time management, nutrition or workout denity trick, I’m listening.

And here are some questions specifically for CT:

Is it better to focus on the magnitude of the mecanical loading in my case when training?
And what’s the deal with low-threshold motor units?[/quote]

Consider yourself lucky. I get up at 4:30 AM to ride the train to school, get back home at 5:00 PM, do homework and get to the gym between 9-10 PM, get home and shower. I really dont mind it except for having to carry a big lunch bag and eating food that had been sitting around for a while. Atleast I do not have a job or kids.

xXSeraphimXx · October 12, 2010, 6:57pm

CT, In all the new splits I have noticed that there is rarely tricep work is this because the 2-3 upper body performance days have enough pressing? Or is there a circuit in which triceps are trained?

Also I notice that in most there is a founadtion day that trains mainly Lats and Biceps. Upper back as auxilary on pressing days, when is the Mid Back trained?

Christian_Thibaudeau · October 12, 2010, 7:33pm

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
CT, In all the new splits I have noticed that there is rarely tricep work is this because the 2-3 upper body performance days have enough pressing? Or is there a circuit in which triceps are trained?

Also I notice that in most there is a founadtion day that trains mainly Lats and Biceps. Upper back as auxilary on pressing days, when is the Mid Back trained? [/quote]

Direct chest, triceps and deltoid work can be added at the end of the performance days. On my OWN upper body performance days I normally have a total of anywhere between 20 and 40 sets of heavy pressing (I once went up to 70 sets, no kidding!); I just donâ??t see how the triceps, chest and deltoid would need any isolation work after that considering how heavily involved they are in most pressing movements. Iâ??m not saying that you canâ??t do isolation work for these, with bodybuilders I do have isolation work for the chest, triceps and delts. But if your goal is simply to build a lot of mass, power and strength, they are not needed.
Define mid-back for me… on the upper body performance days you train rear delts, rhomboids and traps. On the foundation days you train the lats and on the lower body days the lower back is worked… explain to me which portion of the back is not receiving any stimulus please.

xXSeraphimXx · October 12, 2010, 8:12pm

CT, for the push/pull/legs split I have seen examples for he Push and legs day how would you set up a pull day since the back responds better to higher reps? Something like:

A) Activation power clean: 3-5 sets 3-5 reps

1)V-grip Pull
2)Straight arm pull down
3)Seated Row
4)DB Row

all:6-8 reps

Any good? What kind of isolation circuit would you use? Would I add biceps in a circuit or as a main movement after DB rows?

xXSeraphimXx · October 12, 2010, 8:15pm

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
CT, In all the new splits I have noticed that there is rarely tricep work is this because the 2-3 upper body performance days have enough pressing? Or is there a circuit in which triceps are trained?

Also I notice that in most there is a founadtion day that trains mainly Lats and Biceps. Upper back as auxilary on pressing days, when is the Mid Back trained? [/quote]

Direct chest, triceps and deltoid work can be added at the end of the performance days. On my OWN upper body performance days I normally have a total of anywhere between 20 and 40 sets of heavy pressing (I once went up to 70 sets, no kidding!); I just donÃ?Â¢??t see how the triceps, chest and deltoid would need any isolation work after that considering how heavily involved they are in most pressing movements. IÃ?Â¢??m not saying that you canÃ?Â¢??t do isolation work for these, with bodybuilders I do have isolation work for the chest, triceps and delts. But if your goal is simply to build a lot of mass, power and strength, they are not needed.
Define mid-back for me… on the upper body performance days you train rear delts, rhomboids and traps. On the foundation days you train the lats and on the lower body days the lower back is worked… explain to me which portion of the back is not receiving any stimulus please.[/quote]

Thanks, On number 1, that makes a lot of sense. On number 2, when you explain it like that one can see the back is being hit every session.

BiP · October 12, 2010, 10:11pm

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
On my OWN upper body performance days I normally have a total of anywhere between 20 and 40 sets of heavy pressing (I once went up to 70 sets, no kidding!);[/quote]

What do your sets look like when you end up doing that many of them? Do you do multiple sets at given weight, ramp up to the top weight for the day, back of a bit and then do sets below that number, or maybe microramp everything? Do you usually know at the beginning of the workout that it’s going to be a good one and adjust it from the start, or do you tend to realize when you get close to what you were expecting to get done and still feel like you have a lot left in you?

B.

Christian_Thibaudeau · October 12, 2010, 10:50pm

[quote]BiP wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
On my OWN upper body performance days I normally have a total of anywhere between 20 and 40 sets of heavy pressing (I once went up to 70 sets, no kidding!);[/quote]

What do your sets look like when you end up doing that many of them? Do you do multiple sets at given weight, ramp up to the top weight for the day, back of a bit and then do sets below that number, or maybe microramp everything? Do you usually know at the beginning of the workout that it’s going to be a good one and adjust it from the start, or do you tend to realize when you get close to what you were expecting to get done and still feel like you have a lot left in you?

B.[/quote]

I do it several ways… I’ll give you a real life example of a very high volume session I did while in Colorado…

MILITARY PRESS
135 x 3
155 x 3
165 x 3
175 x 3
185 x 3
195 x 3
205 x 3
215 x 3

INCLINE PRESS
215 x 3
235 x 3
255 x 3
265 x 3
275 x 3
285 x 3
295 x3
305 x 3
315 x 3

BENCH PRESS
315 x 3
325 x 3
335 x 3
345 x 3
355 x 3
365 x 3
375 x 3
385 x 3
395 x 3

MILITARY PRESS
175 x 2 perform 1 set every minute for 10 minutes (9-10 sets)

BENCH PRESS
330 x 2 perform 1 set every minute for 10 minutes (9-10 sets)

For reference, at this point my best overhead press (strict military press, no leg drive) was 235 and my best bench press was 425… oddly enough both ended up being ramped up to 92% without having any preconceived target. And i used 70-75% for the timed sets, but didn’t calculate anything… I knew that this weight would feel very strong for all the sets.

HAMMER STRENGTH CHEST PRESS
3 plates + 25 per side x 5
3 plates + 35 per side x 5
4 plates per side x 5
4 plates + 15 per side x 5
4 plates + 25 per side x 3

That was roughly 50 sets of pressing 35 of which I would consider heavy for me

Christian_Thibaudeau · October 12, 2010, 10:46pm

[quote]BiP wrote: Do you usually know at the beginning of the workout that it’s going to be a good one and adjust it from the start, or do you tend to realize when you get close to what you were expecting to get done and still feel like you have a lot left in you?

B.[/quote]

I never have a precise plan before I start a workout. If I’m pressing I know only that I will have an overhead and a flat bench variation somewhere in the workout. Sometimes my best workouts end up being on days where I’m not expecting much and vice versa.

BiP · October 12, 2010, 10:55pm

Thanks for the detailed reply, coach. Is this part:
MILITARY PRESS
175 x 2 perform 1 set every minute for 10 minutes (9-10 sets)

BENCH PRESS
335 x 3 perform 1 set every minute for 10 minutes (9-10 sets)

something aimed at improving efficiency for these two movement patterns or more of a way of increasing overall volume? I can see it doing both, but what is it more suited for?

B.

toots27mkc · October 12, 2010, 11:07pm

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]BiP wrote: Do you usually know at the beginning of the workout that it’s going to be a good one and adjust it from the start, or do you tend to realize when you get close to what you were expecting to get done and still feel like you have a lot left in you?

B.[/quote]

I never have a precise plan before I start a workout. If I’m pressing I know only that I will have an overhead and a flat bench variation somewhere in the workout. Sometimes my best workouts end up being on days where I’m not expecting much and vice versa.[/quote]
Holy shit that’s reassuring, I’ve had that happen a few times lately.

Christian_Thibaudeau · October 12, 2010, 11:42pm

[quote]BiP wrote:
Thanks for the detailed reply, coach. Is this part:
MILITARY PRESS
175 x 2 perform 1 set every minute for 10 minutes (9-10 sets)

BENCH PRESS
335 x 3 perform 1 set every minute for 10 minutes (9-10 sets)

something aimed at improving efficiency for these two movement patterns or more of a way of increasing overall volume? I can see it doing both, but what is it more suited for?

B.[/quote]

I personally use it to increase overall volume at a high acceleration with a relatively heavy weight. I normally use 70-80% and 1-4 reps depending on the movement and how I feel.

RawMinded · October 13, 2010, 1:23am

hey Thib,

i do all my heavy explosive 80 to 90 percent of my max early in the day. In the evening i’ve been working on the same bodyparts as the morning but in a different manner. I’ve read alot about time under tension and how some believe it’s the key to growth.

In the pm i’ve been doing 3 reps with a 4 second positive and negative and then following it up with fast explosive reps with the same weight for 3 to 6 reps, depending on how explosive the reps are. This gives me about 40 seconds of time under tension. Do you feel that this is a component that would be beneficial or just a waste of time?

dayne_lathrop · October 13, 2010, 3:00am