Thibs New Training Questions #3

[quote]brad328192 wrote:
In the article “The Five Elements of Program Dominance” you briefly wrote about “intensiveness dominant” training and that this is for ectomorphs and people having trouble gaining muscle. Have you elaborated on this approach in a different article? I haven’t found another such article, though that doesn’t mean it’s not here.
[/quote]

I assume the lack of response means “no”. Thank you for the Five Elements article. That gives a starting point for intensiveness at least.

[quote]brad328192 wrote:

[quote]brad328192 wrote:
In the article “The Five Elements of Program Dominance” you briefly wrote about “intensiveness dominant” training and that this is for ectomorphs and people having trouble gaining muscle. Have you elaborated on this approach in a different article? I haven’t found another such article, though that doesn’t mean it’s not here.
[/quote]

I assume the lack of response means “no”. Thank you for the Five Elements article. That gives a starting point for intensiveness at least.[/quote]

maybe not… there’s not enough time for all questions to get answered

hey coach,

ive been reading about OVT training lately and would really like to give it a try within the next few weeks, i was wondering whether you would still reccomend the program and if so would you make any changes in the program knowing what you know now??

thanks,

gareth.

[quote]gazhosk wrote:
hey coach,

ive been reading about OVT training lately and would really like to give it a try within the next few weeks, i was wondering whether you would still reccomend the program and if so would you make any changes in the program knowing what you know now??

thanks,

gareth.[/quote]

You obviously haven’t been on here long haven’t you?

No sorry its my first day on the site so please pardon my ignorance

gazhosk, Christian doesn’t recommend optimized volume training any more.

Thanks you for your response

I can’t remember where I read this, but is it true that using a suicide grip on the flat barbell bench better for the shoulders?

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]moogweasel wrote:
Thibs

1/When training Monday, Wednesday and friday, Would you recommend the ‘abbreviated training’ schedule you mentioned in a previous post, or a Push, pull, legs split?
If I’m doing Muay thai a couple of times a week I would be wary of overtraining - one the flip side, If I’m having 3-4 ‘off days’ recovery would not be as much of an issue I suppose.(when busy or enjoying the beach/sights of Thailand, where I’ll be moving to shortly)

I’m just thinking about an approach you mentioned:

‘One approach that we currently use is perform the main exercise for a muscle group with micro-ramping, and then pick 3-5 assistance exercises which are performed for 1 or 2 max rep sets’

2.Could this approach be used when training multiple body parts in one session? Would the volume be significantly reduced, if for example Chest, shoulders and triceps were trained in one session? (I’m thinking that the muscles would need a fair amount of stimulus if only trained once a week)

  1. I’m not 100% on how I would set up a session of this type? Could I micro-ramp up heavy on the bench and push press in one session? A little guidance would be appreciated.

As always, your advice is much appreciated

[/quote]

  1. Both approaches would work. Experiment with what you feel the best with.

  2. Yes and no… You are not training “muscles” with this approach but rather “movement patterns”. But on any given day you are training all the muscles involved in a movement pattern. For example when doing any compound pushing movement the pecs, triceps and shoulders are involved.

So to answer your question: you only pick ONE main movement per workout. For example the bench press. With this exercise you perform 8-12 sets, micro-ramping style. Then you pick 3-5 assistance exercises that go with the main movement. Either pick other pressing exercises (e.g. shoulder press, dips, DB incline press) or exercises targeting the pressing muscles (e.g. lying triceps extension, DB front raise, cable cross-over, etc.) or a mix of both.

These assistance exercises are performed for 1-2 sets of max reps.

  1. No, only one main movement per session.[/quote]

When you say max reps, is there an ideal amount we are looking for??
Maybe somewhere between 8-12 or would it possibly depend on the degree of muscle isolation?

[quote]brad328192 wrote:

[quote]brad328192 wrote:
In the article “The Five Elements of Program Dominance” you briefly wrote about “intensiveness dominant” training and that this is for ectomorphs and people having trouble gaining muscle. Have you elaborated on this approach in a different article? I haven’t found another such article, though that doesn’t mean it’s not here.
[/quote]

I assume the lack of response means “no”. Thank you for the Five Elements article. That gives a starting point for intensiveness at least.[/quote]

He wrote “Training for Easy-Hard Gainers” parts 1 and 2, seems sort of like what you’re looking for. Its based on heavy rest-paused sets on big compound lifts, and heavy post-fatigue supersets. Almost in line with what he’s advocating now with the IBB thing. Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION

There was also a program in the Physique Clinic way back for some skinny-fat guy, with a pretty tough low-volume, high-intensity set-up. You might want to look into dredging that up for some bits of info.

[quote]Dont Want None wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]moogweasel wrote:
Thibs

1/When training Monday, Wednesday and friday, Would you recommend the ‘abbreviated training’ schedule you mentioned in a previous post, or a Push, pull, legs split?
If I’m doing Muay thai a couple of times a week I would be wary of overtraining - one the flip side, If I’m having 3-4 ‘off days’ recovery would not be as much of an issue I suppose.(when busy or enjoying the beach/sights of Thailand, where I’ll be moving to shortly)

I’m just thinking about an approach you mentioned:

‘One approach that we currently use is perform the main exercise for a muscle group with micro-ramping, and then pick 3-5 assistance exercises which are performed for 1 or 2 max rep sets’

2.Could this approach be used when training multiple body parts in one session? Would the volume be significantly reduced, if for example Chest, shoulders and triceps were trained in one session? (I’m thinking that the muscles would need a fair amount of stimulus if only trained once a week)

  1. I’m not 100% on how I would set up a session of this type? Could I micro-ramp up heavy on the bench and push press in one session? A little guidance would be appreciated.

As always, your advice is much appreciated

[/quote]

  1. Both approaches would work. Experiment with what you feel the best with.

  2. Yes and no… You are not training “muscles” with this approach but rather “movement patterns”. But on any given day you are training all the muscles involved in a movement pattern. For example when doing any compound pushing movement the pecs, triceps and shoulders are involved.

So to answer your question: you only pick ONE main movement per workout. For example the bench press. With this exercise you perform 8-12 sets, micro-ramping style. Then you pick 3-5 assistance exercises that go with the main movement. Either pick other pressing exercises (e.g. shoulder press, dips, DB incline press) or exercises targeting the pressing muscles (e.g. lying triceps extension, DB front raise, cable cross-over, etc.) or a mix of both.

These assistance exercises are performed for 1-2 sets of max reps.

  1. No, only one main movement per session.[/quote]

When you say max reps, is there an ideal amount we are looking for??
Maybe somewhere between 8-12 or would it possibly depend on the degree of muscle isolation?

[/quote]

8-12 is a decent target but it’s not about the reps, but about the mindset that you have when approaching the set.

You absolutely CANNOT give yourself a target number to shoot for. By doing so you subconsciously impose a limit on yourself. Rather you must approach the set like a challenge: ‘‘I must do as many reps as I can with that weight before I run out of steam’’. In fact, don’t even count the reps while establishing that mindset.

The 8-12 target should be used to pick the weight to lift. But once the weight is selected FORGET that target and simply go at it.

[quote]twisner wrote:

[quote]brad328192 wrote:

[quote]brad328192 wrote:
In the article “The Five Elements of Program Dominance” you briefly wrote about “intensiveness dominant” training and that this is for ectomorphs and people having trouble gaining muscle. Have you elaborated on this approach in a different article? I haven’t found another such article, though that doesn’t mean it’s not here.
[/quote]

I assume the lack of response means “no”. Thank you for the Five Elements article. That gives a starting point for intensiveness at least.[/quote]

He wrote “Training for Easy-Hard Gainers” parts 1 and 2, seems sort of like what you’re looking for. Its based on heavy rest-paused sets on big compound lifts, and heavy post-fatigue supersets. Almost in line with what he’s advocating now with the IBB thing. COMMUNITY - T NATION - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness
[/quote]

Thanks for pointing out that one. The other part was linked from there. I saved them to read later today.

That one’s going to be harder to find. When I have more time to browse, I’ll try finding it.

Thank you for the pointers to the articles.

Hang Cleans and German Body Comp

Hey coach I am working on technique with my hang cleans and want to incorporate it into my german body comp.
What would be a good superset to pair this with? (another back, chest, lunges???)
I am assuming I should out those in the A super set and I would perform 5 reps most with them

Here is how I have it set up right now
A1 and A2 big exercises (squat, dead, press, chins) 8-10 reps or 6-8 depending (60 sec)
B1, B2, B3 accessory work (arms, lunges, leg curl, RDL’s, rows or chest work) 10-12 reps (45 sec rest)
C1, C2, C3, C4 (abs, calves, shoulder iso, arms iso)

I am training every other day and structuring it into 3 workouts every other day
I thought I would do (for example:) more of a chest day, back day and shoulder day on those 3 days so my back day would have maybe 3 exercises, 1 in each A, B, and C.

Any thoughts

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

8-12 is a decent target but it’s not about the reps, but about the mindset that you have when approaching the set.

You absolutely CANNOT give yourself a target number to shoot for. By doing so you subconsciously impose a limit on yourself. Rather you must approach the set like a challenge: ‘‘I must do as many reps as I can with that weight before I run out of steam’’. In fact, don’t even count the reps while establishing that mindset.

The 8-12 target should be used to pick the weight to lift. But once the weight is selected FORGET that target and simply go at it.[/quote]

Sounds perfect. I was just wondering what we were talking about with max reps, as it can be an arbitrary number.

I’ve noticed that myself too with the setting reps. When I write down 8-12 reps, I run out of gas at 12 no matter what. Where as when I’ve the “drop 20% and max reps” style, I’ve actually managed to push myself more, maybe not past 12 reps so to speak, but definitely to a max.

Hi Christian,

My lowerbody strength is severely lagging behind my upper body. I want to focus on my front squat and deadlift for a period, and I have no problems with putting my upper body progress on hold if that’s needed for better lower body recovery.

I have two questions regarding this:

  1. What split would you suggest to focus on front squats and deads if I have the opportunity to train 4 - 5 days per week? Would you do both lifts on the same days, or dedicate separate days to separate lifts?
  2. Do you have any suggestions for periodization, throughout say, 6 weeks?

A few quick stats:
Height: 185 cm (6’)
Weight: 93 kg (205 lbs)

Bench and front squat: Around 100 kg
Deadlifts: Last time I trained I did 3x120 kg. I lifted strict, but slow. The bar I use is slightly thicker than standard, so the grip in addition to my lower body holds me back. I have no issues keeping my back straight.
Pull-ups: 6 with bodyweight + 20 kg extra
Natural glute ham raise: 3 strict reps

Thanks in advance!

[quote]cyberwar wrote:
Hi Christian,

My lowerbody strength is severely lagging behind my upper body. I want to focus on my front squat and deadlift for a period, and I have no problems with putting my upper body progress on hold if that’s needed for better lower body recovery.

I have two questions regarding this:

  1. What split would you suggest to focus on front squats and deads if I have the opportunity to train 4 - 5 days per week? Would you do both lifts on the same days, or dedicate separate days to separate lifts?
  2. Do you have any suggestions for periodization, throughout say, 6 weeks?

A few quick stats:
Height: 185 cm (6’)
Weight: 93 kg (205 lbs)

Bench and front squat: Around 100 kg
Deadlifts: Last time I trained I did 3x120 kg. I lifted strict, but slow. The bar I use is slightly thicker than standard, so the grip in addition to my lower body holds me back. I have no issues keeping my back straight.
Pull-ups: 6 with bodyweight + 20 kg extra
Natural glute ham raise: 3 strict reps

Thanks in advance![/quote]

DAY 1. Deadlift and assistance work
DAY 2. Upper body pushing
DAY 3. OFF
DAY 4. Front squat and assistance work
DAY 5. OFF
DAY 6. Upper body pulling
DAY 7. OFF

DEADLIFT SESSION:

A) Deadlift standing on a podium
Week 1: Ramping sets of 3 reps
Week 2: Ramping sets of 2 reps
Week 3: Ramping sets of 1 rep

*At week 4 replace the deadlift on a podium with regular deadlifts

Week 4: Ramping sets of 3 reps
Week 5: Ramping sets of 2 reps
Week 6: Ramping sets of 1 rep

B) Romanian deadlift 4-5 sets of 5 reps

C) Back extension 1-2 sets of max reps

D) Glute-ham raise 1-2 sets of max reps

FRONT SQUAT SESSION

A) No-hands front squat (http://jva.ontariostrongman.ca/FS.htm)
Week 1: Ramping sets of 3 reps
Week 2: Ramping sets of 2 reps
Week 3: Ramping sets of 1 rep

*At 4 weeks switch to regular front squats

Week 4: Ramping sets of 3 reps
Week 5: Ramping sets of 2 reps
Week 6: Ramping sets of 1 rep

B) Jump squat with 30% of the max weight you used for front squats 5 sets of 5

C) Back squat 1 sets of max reps with the max weight you used for front squats

D) Leg extension 1-2 sets of max reps (shoot for anything between 8 and 15)

coach is the frog style(or duck feet style) the most ideal style for a lifter with long femurs for clean or snatch starting position for better pulling leverage?

What’s the reason to use no hands FS ? Usually you don’t seem to recommend “weird” exercises…

Hi Christian!

Thanks for giving such a detailed awnser! One thing though; my femurs are really long, and despite good mobility back squatting is troublesome no matter how much I try. Is there any barbell or dumbbell substitute that I could do for the max rep set, or should I just stop before I break parallell?

Thanks, I really appreciate your help :slight_smile:

[quote]FRONT SQUAT SESSION

A) No-hands front squat (http://jva.ontariostrongman.ca/FS.htm)
Week 1: Ramping sets of 3 reps
Week 2: Ramping sets of 2 reps
Week 3: Ramping sets of 1 rep

*At 4 weeks switch to regular front squats

Week 4: Ramping sets of 3 reps
Week 5: Ramping sets of 2 reps
Week 6: Ramping sets of 1 rep

B) Jump squat with 30% of the max weight you used for front squats 5 sets of 5

C) Back squat 1 sets of max reps with the max weight you used for front squats

D) Leg extension 1-2 sets of max reps (shoot for anything between 8 and 15)
[/quote]

CT

If Training as follows:

Monday - Chest and Back
Wednesday - Legs
Friday - Shoulders and arms (with some close grip chins and dips/close grip bench aswell as direct arm work)

  1. would it still be appropriate to mirco ramp up in 3’s when working antagonistic pairings such as:
    A1 - Bench press
    A2 - cable/bb row
    Or on shoulders/arms day:
    A1 - Military press
    A2 - Close grip chins

After these pairing I was thinking another 2-3 exercises for max reps for each mustle group still done in antagonistic fashion? (maybe second excercises done 4-5 x 5 style:
B1 - db flyes
B2 - pull ups
C1 - machine press
C2 - straight arm/ machine pullovers

As each muscle group for upper body would recieve stimulation on Monday + Friday, directly or indirectly, this amount of volume would be approprate. (twice weekly stimulation being optimal?)
I’m toying with this approach aswell as a push - pull - legs split done Mon, Wed and Fri respectively.

Just wondered what your opinion would be on the pros and cons of each approach.

Thanks for your time as always